What Would You Want Out of Multiplayer Options?

[JohnBM01]

GTPlanet, in an effort to try to attack as many issues as possible concerning the next Gran Turismo game, I'd like to open this thread for discussion on multiplayer options.

As one GTPlanet member had in his signature, "why cry over a feature that was never there?" As we were learning more and more about what GT4 would have to offer, one such issue was hailed and marketed very well- online gaming. But sadly, the hearts of many gamers was broken when online gaming beyond LAN would not happen. Instead, many of us were saddened to not have Sony Online support for playing Gran Turismo 4. Of course, I was the one who was like "no online? No problem," as many of us were just looking forward to a heavily-delayed Gran Turismo 4.

As all we have about any idea of a GT5 is a tech demo from Polyphony Digital called "Vision Gran Turismo," I decided to open this thread to discuss what you all would want out of a feature that... wasn't really a key element for the series, multiplay. GT4's rival, Forza Motorsport, featured not only online racing via XBOX Live, it also went a step further by featuring a sort of integrated online career mode. Project Gotham Racing 3 will likely feature much more online action, even cash prizes up to $1,000,000. So XBOX gamers, get as much Kudos as you can when that game comes out if you want to be filthy rich. But on Gran Turismo's side, it's been all about the single player experience. Personally, I was unaffected by no online gaming because I'm not really the online gaming type. Love the concept, just don't do it.

The main challenge here is, for a game series never really known for multiplayer gaming, what would you want out of a multiplayer gaming experience for GT5? If multiplayer gaming is implemented fully, do you think PD should challenge Forza and the PGR series in online gaming? How do you make online gaming a hit for GT5? Will more people respect Gran Turismo for the multiplayer element after this? The floor is yours.

 

[sicbeing]

GTPlanet, in an effort to try to attack as many issues as possible concerning the next Gran Turismo game, I'd like to open this thread for discussion on multiplayer options.

As one GTPlanet member had in his signature, "why cry over a feature that was never there?" As we were learning more and more about what GT4 would have to offer, one such issue was hailed and marketed very well- online gaming. But sadly, the hearts of many gamers was broken when online gaming beyond LAN would not happen. Instead, many of us were saddened to not have Sony Online support for playing Gran Turismo 4. Of course, I was the one who was like "no online? No problem," as many of us were just looking forward to a heavily-delayed Gran Turismo 4.

As all we have about any idea of a GT5 is a tech demo from Polyphony Digital called "Vision Gran Turismo," I decided to open this thread to discuss what you all would want out of a feature that... wasn't really a key element for the series, multiplay. GT4's rival, Forza Motorsport, featured not only online racing via XBOX Live, it also went a step further by featuring a sort of integrated online career mode. Project Gotham Racing 3 will likely feature much more online action, even cash prizes up to $1,000,000. So XBOX gamers, get as much Kudos as you can when that game comes out if you want to be filthy rich. But on Gran Turismo's side, it's been all about the single player experience. Personally, I was unaffected by no online gaming because I'm not really the online gaming type. Love the concept, just don't do it.

The main challenge here is, for a game series never really known for multiplayer gaming, what would you want out of a multiplayer gaming experience for GT5? If multiplayer gaming is implemented fully, do you think PD should challenge Forza and the PGR series in online gaming? How do you make online gaming a hit for GT5? Will more people respect Gran Turismo for the multiplayer element after this? The floor is yours.

1. Online Tournaments

2. Raceing for Bets / Slips

3. Drag Racing Mode

4. Online chart and database of all players and the fastest times on certain tracks period, no diving it up into "stock times" or "skyline times", just the fastest track times.

5. Lobby rooms before you enter races and you can chat, place bets, see your rivals cars/stats/etc. But, -not- his cars modifications, only his HP and Weight.

6. Tradeable everything, from cars to Cr. to parts.

7. I dont think online endurance races would be good, due to lag/disconnection.

8. When you enter a race online, you either finish or quit and be disqualified and lose anything you bet.

9. I know that disconnections or lag may cause players to lose money or cars etc, so hopefully the game will be able to detect this and call the race off for it. But then again this would be a great way for people who are losing to keep their stuff when they pull the plug... i have mixed feelings now

 

[LoudMusic]

1. Online Tournaments

Count on it.

2. Raceing for Bets / Slips

I think this would be cool, but not many people would be racing for slips - they'd be too afraid to loose. And what if you're loosing and turn off your PS3? Do you just loose the car, or is the race voided? Or is there some kind of way to enter feedback about racers?

3. Drag Racing Mode

Meh

4. Online chart and database of all players and the fastest times on certain tracks period, no diving it up into "stock times" or "skyline times", just the fastest track times.

I think there would need to be a full database of times sortable however the individuals would like. This site has an excellent times database that is nicely searchable. I want that but I want it delivered by Sony and times entered by the game itself.

5. Lobby rooms before you enter races and you can chat, place bets, see your rivals cars/stats/etc. But, -not- his cars modifications, only his HP and Weight.

Oh I think you should be able to fully inspect a guys car. What's it hurt?

6. Tradeable everything, from cars to Cr. to parts.

Absolutely.

7. I dont think online endurance races would be good, due to lag/disconnection.

Agreed. And I think you'd find anything over about a 15 minute race would be pretty crappy. Most races would probably be reduced to a couple laps.

8. When you enter a race online, you either finish or quit and be disqualified and lose anything you bet.

The betting thing is kind of weird, but whatever. I think it will be done more in an entry fee style.

9. I know that disconnections or lag may cause players to lose money or cars etc, so hopefully the game will be able to detect this and call the race off for it. But then again this would be a great way for people who are losing to keep their stuff when they pull the plug... i have mixed feelings now

As with every other online game, disconnects will be taken advantage of. This is why I think it should be based on entry fees paid upfront. The next question is, what happens when someone disconnects? Will the game pause and wait for them to come back? I sure hope not! Does the car just disappear off the course? That might have to work because if it doesn't you have to decide if it drifts to a stop, is taken over by an AI, or ... what ever else. It would be neat to see it drift to the edge of the course and stop with a yellow flag and have it relocated to the pit where it is taken over by an AI. How they get it to a pit could be interesting. Perhaps when the player disconnects the car is taken over just like it is in pit lane. It would drop to something like 50% throttle and cruise to the pit. Then an AI takes over and finishes the race. All online stats / garage are stored on the Sony servers, so perhaps this is a good way to avoid people cheating by disconnecting - their car still finishes. If they disconnect by accident then maybe their car has a chance of finishing well. They could reconnect and the AI would pit where they could take over again.

Kind of like B-Spec takes over for you if you disconnect. Maybe all the pitting isn't even necessary.

 

[Swift]

All I want is reliable online matches/meets. That's it. I'm not worried about the details as long as it works and is reliable.

 

[LoudMusic]

All I want is reliable online matches/meets. That's it. I'm not worried about the details as long as it works and is reliable.

Prepair yourself for disapointment. "Reliability" and "internet" do not belong in the same discussion.

(:

 

[Gabkicks]

i think it should sorta take be like some pc racing games and have ranking systems.

the ranking system could keep track of races won, lost and entered. Maybe there could be some type of penalty for entering too many races and not finnishing.

Also, some have kicking systems built in to automaticly kick those with really high pings. Maybe instead of giving your cars exact specs when racing online. the game should go by a class system, like in real life. 👍

With very high levels of competition, 30 minute races or more can actually be fun.
Its fun battling someone you suspect might be better than you, than having them break down from you constantly tailing then.

 

[sicbeing]

Paying for a race upfront and whoever wins get the pot, i think thats a good way to get around disconnecting cheaters. And bob taking over for a disconn'd car is a good idea too, but dont have any delay, just as soon as the player disonnects bob immediatly takes over.

About comming back online, Id say if the race isnt over and the player is able to get back online, just treat it like a moving start, countdown from 5 and then once thats up take over for bob and resume the race.

-EDIT-

Maybe for the winning pot of money, id say in a circuit race:

1st place, 80% of the pot
2nd place 15%
3rd place 5%.


or something along those lines.

Note, id think 2 player drag racing would be a diffferent story, just both pay to enter and the winner leaves with all.

Or maybe there could be some kind of pot winning/number of players, ratio. Like the more people who enter the race will effect how much % of the pot the 1st-3rd winners get.

Example:

6 player race
1st place 80
2nd 15
3rd 5


3 player race

1st place 95
2nd 5
3rd 0


2 player race
1st 100%
2nd 0%


etc,.

 

[LoudMusic]

Paying for a race upfront and whoever wins get the pot, i think thats a good way to get around disconnecting cheaters. And bob taking over for a disconn'd car is a good idea too, but dont have any delay, just as soon as the player disonnects bob immediatly takes over.

About comming back online, Id say if the race isnt over and the player is able to get back online, just treat it like a moving start, countdown from 5 and then once thats up take over for bob and resume the race.

Or swap on next pit, assuming the race has any length at all. But the rolling start would be cool.

 

[LoudMusic]

Ah check this out. Big courses like Nurburgring and Le Sarth could be "static worlds" where you pay your 50cr per lap and you're added to a que just like in real life. There could be one for each car class, or however the breakdown might go. Then have cars start in something like 10 or 15 second increments until the circuit is at capacity (probably 30 or 40 cars, depending on the hardware) and you lap until you're done. It would be fun to see how many cars you can pass.

 

[sicbeing]

Ah check this out. Big courses like Nurburgring and Le Sarth could be "static worlds" where you pay your 50cr per lap and you're added to a que just like in real life. There could be one for each car class, or however the breakdown might go. Then have cars start in something like 10 or 15 second increments until the circuit is at capacity (probably 30 or 40 cars, depending on the hardware) and you lap until you're done. It would be fun to see how many cars you can pass.

the line may be too long for something like that id think, with thousands playing lol, 1000ppl times 15 seconds = a 15,000 second long wait. 👎

 

[Swift]

Prepair yourself for disapointment. "Reliability" and "internet" do not belong in the same discussion.

(:

Well, Xbox live is quite reliable. So I'd like to see something like that. and yes, I'd be willing to throw a few dollars at it.

 

[LoudMusic]

Well there would be multiple Nurburgrings to join. And it's not like everyone would be wanting to do that. Infact I bet it would be a much less popular thing to do. When GT goes online I bet at least half of its traffic will be drag races and two lap spot races.

 

[Swift]

Well there would be multiple Nurburgrings to join. And it's not like everyone would be wanting to do that. Infact I bet it would be a much less popular thing to do. When GT goes online I bet at least half of its traffic will be drag races and two lap spot races.

Yep, quick races will be popular. That's what I noticed on Project Gotham racing on Xbox(I don't own one, at a friends house)

 

[sicbeing]

I for one would be a fan of lap racing. Unless they made drag racing something other then hit the pedal and go faster. NFSU had a really fun way of making drag racing cool, just the gear shifting thing, not the traffic/obsticles.

 

[LoudMusic]

Yep, quick races will be popular. That's what I noticed on Project Gotham racing on Xbox(I don't own one, at a friends house)

It would seem, no brainer, that shorter races have a much higher success rate of completing without network failure. It's also less of a time commitment from these "gamer kids" (:

Personally I would find it quite enjoyable to have races matched up similar to the way Halo 2 does game matching. Based on your performance history you are pitted against rivals. I would be perfectly fine with racing "arcade" cars online and I don't think I would even mind having the server pick what cars we were driving. Perhaps that could all be one aspect of online racing.

Something VERY important is that online events are not regionalized. Anyone anywhere in the world needs to be able to play anyone from anywhere else in the world. Restricting the Japanese to Japanese competitors greatly reduces the number of players online to compete with. Though I think that should all be an option as well. What "scope" of players would you like to list in your rival search, time thing.

 

[G25RJ]

For the rank system I think They should use the ELO system that is implemented in Street Challenge (a free Drag Racing game). This is the text that explains the ELO system:

Your ELO score is based on a widely accepted ranking system originally designed for world wide chess player ranking. It was named after Arpad Elo, a master-level chess player who invented the statistical rating system.

The ELO system (in a nutshell) is one of the most accurate ways to decide the ranking of players based on wins and losses. It works on the theory that in order to be the best, you have to beat the best. It uses the difference of each players score to determine the most likely outcome and, how likely that outcome is. Each players rank is increased or decreased based on the skill level of the opponent. So the best way to get a higher ranking is to play and beat the players above you in rank.

 

[Studentdriver]

Hmmm, sounds kind of like the RPI ratings in college bastketball.

 

[JohnBM01]

Some of you may find it funny I'm bringing up this topic even though I was one of the ones unaffected by online play. I don't know the online business as much as I'd like to, but for what I know, racing games aren't really as popular for online gaming as any HALO, Unreal Tournament/Championship series, and that sort of thing. If there is a racing game that is pretty popular in multiplayer action, "Live For Speed" is perhaps the most popular online racing game on the PC. What do I think the online portion should have to be successful? Don't hate me, but here goes.

I try to passionately speak for all of us racing and automotive fans when I say that all of us are part of a big worldwide community. Now sure, a person into muscle cars is less likely to be friends with someone into Scion and Honda tuning. But when you think about it, we all love cars and/or racing. The Gran Turismo series shows you the world of cars. Say what you want in terms of a bias towards mostly Japanese cars (Japanese game after all), but you have companies from Daihatsu to Bentley in GT4. All I think GT5 should do is try to bring communities together. Wouldn't you want to share your love of automobiles and/or racing to the world? I think that as much as Gran Turismo's success kind of fluctuated into the mainstream auto culture, I think our love of cars goes virtual. So we should be able to modify cars, view garages, and all sorts of things. I think if you have a USB keyboard (my idea, or is there a such thing) or one of those controllers that have a keyboard above the main controls, you'd be able to chat, and invite someone to a race. To me, the most important aspect of an online feature is to share your love of the Gran Turismo series and your love of cars online.

That's only part of what I think online play should be like for Gran Turismo 5. I have more to add, but that's later. Also, think about this in terms of GT5 online vs. its competition online. Think about what it has to do be a success over its rival racing games online. So think about this more than just features you want.

 

[sicbeing]

well said john 👍

 

[JohnBM01]

There's been all sorts of multiplayer aspects in posts and threads. Could there possibly be a way to make online racing as interesting as racing solo? Now, don't forget. Multiplayer gaming doesn't just relate to online. Multiplayer means "more than one player," Doesn't have to be online. Perhaps tournaments and Knockout competitions would be nice, so kind of think about GT Multiplayer online and offline.

 

[Alonsomania]

Winner gets a price car

 

[MasterDriver]

One major thing i'd like to see. The ability to load collected cars in LAN/Multiplayer mode, NOT just 2 player.. Btw does anyone know of PD's location because i might send them a resume.. Oh yea also I feel they really need to rework the entire game for gt5 the multiplayer and stuff seems like alot is hacked code, and i'm one that strays away from hacking stuff in. I know deadlines really bite, but a new engine is really needed espcially if their gonna tackle multiplayer in the way its meant to be..

 

[Jafo]

Something VERY important is that online events are not regionalized. Anyone anywhere in the world needs to be able to play anyone from anywhere else in the world. Restricting the Japanese to Japanese competitors greatly reduces the number of players online to compete with. Though I think that should all be an option as well. What "scope" of players would you like to list in your rival search, time thing.

They could set up servers like Zipper has for Socom II. There are 2 servers, one North America and the other is International.

PD could set up 4, Asia, NA and Eu. Then have an International one.

One thing they should also think about doing is voice chat.

Oh also, have some icon showing if the player is using a controller or wheel. I race GT4 online with Xlink and have to tell everyone that I am using the Logitech wheel.

 

[JohnBM01]

As I was stating earlier, this is new terroitory for the Gran Turismo series. There was LAN play, no online. So I don't think PD should go for innovations early. I think PD will have to look to its rival, Forza Motorsport, for online play and multiplayer options. Or if PD wanted to look into PC gaming, perhaps Live for Speed or GTR... two games I can't handle on my computer, so thus don't know this for myself. Granted races will feature a maximum of 20 cars, I'm sure if PD can pull off a system for 20 gamers to compete at once at a certain track at a certain time, it will be the most insane deal in racing games. Or can you even imagine all the cars that may compete at once with this deal? Imagine the multiplayer madness!

Speaking of madness, for those of you who don't know about NCAA Basketball here in the States, we have an annual college basketball tournament called "March Madness," or to some people, "The Big Dance." Just like in the NBA, it's win or go home. Unlike in the NBA, March Madness is sudden death. How does this relate to Gran Turismo and multiplay? In America, we can have the best Gran Turismo racers compete in regional championships, then a national title. March Madness-style, it can be Houston Region (South), New York Region (Atlantic Coast), Detroit Region (Midwest), Los Angeles Region (Pacific Coast and Mountain States), and Alaska & Hawaii. If you place in the top four for the five regions, you will advance to the higher brackets. The higher you place, the higher your "seed" will be in the "American Gran Turismo Championship." And depending on your lap times, if you're the fastest when everyone races the same track in the same region, you'll start the Knockout race series in First Place. Of course, the fastest five in region get to start in the top 5 judging on lap times. With this said, five races will ensue. The lowest 4 will be eliminated. So assuming max number of cars is 20, the first race will have 16 advance, the second will have 12 advance, the third will have 8 advance, the fourth will have four advance, and then, it's down to the best four to ultimately decide the undisputed champ.

I haven't thought this through, but imagine whatever types of tournaments you want to set up, either tournaments locally, regionally, or even internationally. The official tournaments will have maybe real money, some of the more rare cars in the next GT, shiny trophies, trips to tropical getaways with sexy girls in bikinis servicing you, or what-have-you. Want to add to this?