No, you said safety is the most important thing. So justify motor racing, if that’s the case. Justify the needless risk of life and limb for a mere hobby or lifestyle choice. Do it. Explain to me and everyone else reading this thread why motor racing should be allowed to continue.Congratulations, you've just won the prize of "not worth listening to anymore"
For the same reason any other sport is continued: It provides entertainment and thrill and part of that thrill is the potential risk that the athletes put themselves into. It just happens that in motorsports this risk can be potentialy deadly. I'm not saying death is in any way a desired outcome in motorsport, but the same goes for any other sport out there.In fact, motor racing isn't the only deadly sport out there. In whatever sport you look, you will find a death or two, even in the most seeminlgy harmless, like football, soccer and even marathons. But if we were to give up in the first struggle, life would be alot more boring and we wouldn't progress at all as a society. We learn and improve upon those mistakes and we make sure that they will never happen again, and the same goes for deadly accidents in motor racing. Even if we never manage to take out death from the equation, we will continue trying to make it as unlikely as possible.Justify the needless risk of life and limb for a mere hobby or lifestyle choice. Do it. Explain to me and everyone else reading this thread why motor racing should be allowed to continue.
That’s my point. Safety ISN’T above everything else, like the other bloke originally said. SOME safety is sacrificed for the sake of entertainment. The halo is simply the current arbitrary line in the sand that’s been drawn as the separation between ‘safe’ and ‘unsafe’. I wanted for him to see the cognitive dissonance he was exhibiting when he said ‘safety is #1’ whilst simultaneously supporting on-track competition. If we were truly 100% on safety, physical motor racing would’ve been abolished yesterday.For the same reason any other sport is continued: It provides entertainment and thrill and part of that thrill is the potential risk that the athletes put themselves into. It just happens that in motorsports this risk can be potentialy deadly. I'm not saying death is in any way a desired outcome in motorsport, but the same goes for any other sport out there.In fact, motor racing isn't the only deadly sport out there. In whatever sport you look, you will find a death or two, even in the most seeminlgy harmless, like football, soccer and even marathons. But if we were to give up in the first struggle, life would be alot more boring and we wouldn't progress at all as a society. We learn and improve upon those mistakes and we make sure that they will never happen again, and the same goes for deadly accidents in motor racing. Even if we never manage to take out death from the equation, we will continue trying to make it as unlikely as possible.
70 years of F1 history and MAYBE 3 drivers die/suffer injuries that the halo would’ve prevented.
I can name you at least 6 people from this list of F1 fatalities that a halo would have saved, or at least helped.
I take it you’ve never seen motorcycle racing before? The actual facts are drivers are more likely to die driving to the circuit than they are racinf on it. YOU are more likely to die on your way to work than during a motor racing event. It’s not the 1970s anymore, racing drivers aren’t dropping like flies every season.
Yes, because the halo is totally related to the quality of racing. I'm sure if we take it off today, we'd get a four way photo finish between Mercedes, Red Bull, RP and McLaren.That’s my point. Safety ISN’T above everything else, like the other bloke originally said. SOME safety is sacrificed for the sake of entertainment. The halo is simply the current arbitrary line in the sand that’s been drawn as the separation between ‘safe’ and ‘unsafe’. I wanted for him to see the cognitive dissonance he was exhibiting when he said ‘safety is #1’ whilst simultaneously supporting on-track competition. If we were truly 100% on safety, physical motor racing would’ve been abolished yesterday.
It’s also why I brought up both motorcycle racing and the fact a modern F1 car is siginificantly safer than any road car in existence. Deaths and injury are siginificantly more common per 100 people in commuter driving than in any form of motorsport. Hell, more kids die in karting every 5 years than F1 drivers have in the last 25. At some point we have to say “it’s safe enough”, because pursuing further compromises the spirit of the sport. Otherwise, why race in reality at all.
Danger is inherent in sport, and whether we like to admit it or not it’s part of the reason why spectators are attracted to it and what drives competitors to participate. People watch because they want to see heroes put themselves on the line to be the best, and people compete because they believe the risk is worth the glory. Just as it is with bullfighting, rock climbing, big game hunting, skydiving, stunt plane aerobatics, and everything else. If it weren’t, esports would’ve been pulling comparative spectator numbers to the real sports earlier this year when all sports were on lockdown. They didn’t, because most people don’t want to watch people play FIFA or Madden or Rfactor unless they have no other option.
What’s the old saying? “If you can’t stand the heat, get out of the kitchen.”
What I was implying was F1 is safe, when you compare it to literally every other form of motorsport. F1 is probably THE safest racing category.You said this.
I said that.
I have no idea how you got here.
Which (maybe) 3 drivers, in the 70 years of F1 history, do you think that the halo would've prevented their death?
What I meant was the halo fundamentally damages the spirit of the sport, because it’s a giant leap in the direction of closed cockpits. F1’s basic DNA is open-cockpit open-wheel racing cars. If closed cockpits come, enclosed wheels won’t be far behind. And at that point, there’ll be no difference between F1 and sports prototypes/LMP machines.Yes, because the halo is totally related to the quality of racing. I'm sure if we take it off today, we'd get a four way photo finish between Mercedes, Red Bull, RP and McLaren.
What a dumb take.
What I meant was the halo fundamentally damages the spirit of the sport, because it’s a giant leap in the direction of closed cockpits. F1’s basic DNA is open-cockpit open-wheel racing cars. If closed cockpits come, enclosed wheels won’t be far behind. And at that point, there’ll be no difference between F1 and sports prototypes/LMP machines.
All the drivers going to simulators wouldn’t affect the quality racing, so why don’t we just do that? Or make all the cars RC and have the drivers control them remotely?
What a dumb take.
It doesn't. Last year at Silverstone, I had a chat with a driver in the Formula Renault Eurocup (who is now in F3) when his car broke down and asked him what it was like driving with the Halo. He said he hated how it looks on the car, but when you're driving you never notice it. He said that once in the car, the only time you see the Halo and realise it's there is when you get out, and was thankful for the extra head protection. Directly in the centre is never a place a driver looks, and even if it is, the driver just needs to move their head slightly to the left or the right and it's out the way. It is worse in games because you don't have the luxury of being able to move your head while looking along, but even still, I've never found it an issue while playing F1 2019.I'm used to how it looks now, but it must be a nightmare for the drivers' visibility cause it blocks their line of sight.
What’s the importance of racing at all? If there are major safety benefits to going simulator-only, history isn’t the greatest counterpoint.What's the importance of staying open cockpit? If there are major safety benefits with going closed, history isn't the greatest counterpoint.
What’s the importance of racing at all? If there are major safety benefits to going simulator-only, history isn’t the greatest counterpoint.
Closed cockpit isn’t safer anyway.
“Majority of fans won’t follow” so you agree there’s a limit to how hard we should pursue safety? So why is it the halo is where you draw the line? A device that wouldn’t’ve made an appreciable difference in a single F1 crash since the 70s, because the issues the halo is designed to solve (primarily errant wheels) has been essentially solved? The only time wheels go flying is when a lug nut isn’t secured. But in those sorts of incidents, the wheel travels in the same direction as traffic and is essentially harmless to other drivers. Which is why there’s not be a single incidence I’m aware of of a driver being hit by a wheel that came off because of an unsecured nut.Good point, but then we would be in a completely different business. I don't imagine the majority of fans would follow.
I don't see the issue with the theoretical deviation from the open cockpit formula. I'm sure some people would, but people adapt or stop watching. F1 regulations can evolve. That's what separates F1 from sportscars prototypes/LMP. It's a different racing series, racing to a different set of regulations. How much closer did we get to LMPs with the addition of the halo?
Then there won't be any issues for you in the future.
When dealing with things that might involve people being decapitated on live television, I'd say it's decidedly better to have and not need, than to need and not have.“Majority of fans won’t follow” so you agree there’s a limit to how hard we should pursue safety? So why is it the halo is where you draw the line? A device that wouldn’t’ve made an appreciable difference in a single F1 crash since the 70s, because the issues the halo is designed to solve (primarily errant wheels) has been essentially solved? The only time wheels go flying is when a lug nut isn’t secured. But in those sorts of incidents, the wheel travels in the same direction as traffic and is essentially harmless to other drivers. Which is why there’s not be a single incidence I’m aware of of a driver being hit by a wheel that came off because of an unsecured nut.
What makes you think drivers being decapitated is such a problem? The last driver to die of such an accident was Tom Pryce in 1977, when he hit a marshal who ran across an active track carrying a fire extinguisher, which hit Pryce’s head and crushed it. Track safety and marshal training has progressed far enough to where such an incident is no longer realistically possible. It’s not the 1970s anymore, drivers aren’t dropping off like flies every season.When dealing with things that might involve people being decapitated on live television, I'd say it's decidedly better to have and not need, than to need and not have.
I wonder why? Could it be because of an increased focus on safety?It’s not the 1970s anymore, drivers aren’t dropping off like flies every season.
So then why race at all, by the logic. Any crash could be fatal, as we saw with Hubert. Small bits of metal and CF can still go straight through the giant gaps in the halo and lead to the same thing that killed Senna (pierced helmet). Why not just have all the drivers on simulator rigs, or controlling the cars via RC? I’ve asked this at least once before and never got an answer. Why not? Why won’t you make the case for continuing actual on-track racing, if safety is paramount. If drivers shouldn’t have agency over their life choices.
I've driven a halo equipped car in VR, its really not a problem at all, you can see past it quite naturally.I'm used to how it looks now, but it must be a nightmare for the drivers' visibility cause it blocks their line of sight.
What makes you think drivers being decapitated is such a problem?
Track safety and marshal training has progressed far enough to where such an incident is no longer realistically possible.
So then why race at all, by the logic. Any crash could be fatal, as we saw with Hubert.
Small bits of metal and CF can still go straight through the giant gaps in the halo and lead to the same thing that killed Senna (pierced helmet).
Why not just have all the drivers on simulator rigs, or controlling the cars via RC? I’ve asked this at least once before and never got an answer. Why not?
We did. It was called Lockdown. It was a lot of fun but nobody took is seriously and it highlighted that sim racing is still a few years of development away from being a true competitor to real motorsport. The experiment has been done.Why not just have all the drivers on simulator rigs,
May I direct you to https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/threads/please-read-general-motorsports-forum-rules.349092/What makes you think drivers being decapitated is such a problem? The last driver to die of such an accident was Tom Pryce in 1977, when he hit a marshal who ran across an active track carrying a fire extinguisher, which hit Pryce’s head and crushed it. Track safety and marshal training has progressed far enough to where such an incident is no longer realistically possible. It’s not the 1970s anymore, drivers aren’t dropping off like flies every season.
If you in your sick mind with archaic views want to see people being killed doing motor racing, go and watch Motorbike road racing such as the Isle of Man TT and don't come back. You just need to look at the "likes" being put on posts in the thread. None of them are directed at you, and all of them are on posts of people debunking your comments. That should be a clue that perhaps you are in the wrong.Do not wish any harm, injury or incident upon any driver
The moderating staff understand that people have their favourites in motorsport, and that they might therefore wish the rivals of their favourites to undergo misfortune. Fair enough, but if we see any crash or physical harm being wished upon any participant in any form of motorsport, then we shall immediately issue an AUP violation infraction.
The only time wheels go flying is when a lug nut isn’t secured. But in those sorts of incidents, the wheel travels in the same direction as traffic and is essentially harmless to other drivers. Which is why there’s not be a single incidence I’m aware of of a driver being hit by a wheel that came off because of an unsecured nut.
Halo obscures vision!...? Orite....
His hands obstruct his vision much more than anything else...