Whats the final word on the physics??

[Nielsen]

Before even trying to learn Sim steering, it's recommended you get acquainted with actually driving the cars first. It's already going to seem odd to him, so throwing that in just usually ends for a bad time, especially when you're new to the series.

That's not necessarily true. I started out with simulation steering and I've had nothing but fun getting the hang of it, which didn't take that long anyway.

 

[ImaRobot]

That's not necessarily true. I started out with simulation steering and I've had nothing but fun getting the hang of it, which didn't take that long anyway.

What's not true? I just said that he should take the time to get settled with the game first, before diving right in. Still, you're the only person I've ever seen that said they had fun learning simulation steering

 

[Nielsen]

What's not true? I just said that he should take the time to get settled with the game first, before diving right in. Still, you're the only person I've ever seen that said they had fun learning simulation steering

Nothing, at first I missed "usually" in your sentence about a having a bad time. "Bad time" is a stretch though. What's so funny? It's not like simulation steering is extremely hard to learn or master.

 

[CAMAROBOY69]

Before even trying to learn Sim steering, it's recommended you get acquainted with actually driving the cars first. It's already going to seem odd to him, so throwing that in just usually ends for a bad time, especially when you're new to the series.

I would for sure leave normal steering on, it's probably best to take off some of the assists slowly as you learn the game. The first thing is getting used to the trigger system, just not mashing the triggers. I've heard/read way too many people complain that Forza cars are uncontrollable and they spin out/get loose too much. It's because they turn off all the assists and have absolutely no throttle control yet, they've played a lot of other racing games and think they are Mario Andretti. It's best to ease into it if you've never played a Forza game.

I agree you do NOT want to start out with "Sim" steering in Forza. In fact I usually recommend to most people to make sure that is set to "normal". Then as mentioned above, slowly start taking off other assists. Don't touch sim steering until you are very comfortable with this game.

 

[ImaRobot]

Nothing, at first I missed "usually" in your sentence about a having a bad time. What's so funny? It's not like simulation steering is extremely hard to learn or master.

What's funny, is that "Fun" is the last thing that comes to mind when I think of Simulation steering, even less so, realistic. The snap oversteer, and snap lock-to-lock countersteer situations was the opposite of what I'd call fun.

 

[prousonhairy]

I can take all other assists off and I can enjoy most cars, but simulation steering still gives me a headache. I just don't enjoy the game as much with it on. More power to anyone who does enjoy it though, it's not a bad thing if you enjoy it, I just don't.

 

[Nielsen]

What's funny, is that "Fun" is the last thing that comes to mind when I think of Simulation steering, even less so, realistic. The snap oversteer, and snap lock-to-lock countersteer situations was the opposite of what I'd call fun.

Each to his own. I've tried normal steering and I feel like it dampens the physics too much. Everyone who wrote off simulation steering long ago should consider giving it a second chance after the latest update though. Correcting oversteer is not quite the same balancing act it used to be.

 

[ImaRobot]

Each to his own. I've tried normal steering and I feel like it dampens the physics too much. Everyone who wrote off simulation steering long ago should consider giving it a second chance after the latest update though. Correcting oversteer is not quite the same balancing act it used to be.

That' is something I've yet to try though, post-update. I'll give it a try when I jump on tonight. I'ts not dampening the physics though, more so the inputs.

 

[Nielsen]

That' is something I've yet to try though, post-update. I'll give it a try when I jump on tonight. I'ts not dampening the physics though, more so the inputs.

Feel free to let us know what you think about it.

 

[VXR]

If simulation steering as it's represented on the Xbox One controller was how cars actually responded to inputs, nobody would ever learn to drive fast, because they'd have scared themselves silly. It's just right in Horizon 2, but to me feels highly inconsistent compared to an actual car's wheel wth a fixed, defined centre on Forza 5 and 6.

@Nielsen i'll give it a try again. If they've improved it, then that's ideal.

 

[Speedster911]

What's not true? I just said that he should take the time to get settled with the game first, before diving right in. Still, you're the only person I've ever seen that said they had fun learning simulation steering

I started out with s.steering in F4 and never looked back. I was already used to holding the analog stick at certain angles and making intricate corrections, so sim steering came naturally.

If anything sim steering and no assists will help him come to terms with the deep physics engine. That's why I also mentioned "lots of patience and practice".

With normal, he may never want to go to sim, as normal is too easy and basic - all cars feel the same.

As for the triggers, those are rather sensitive as the travel is less than that of an X360 controller. Still 0/100 deads should help him practice the art of trigger throttle and brake manipulation around corners.

 

[ImaRobot]

Why would he not come to grips with the physics engine? It's running on the exact same engine, its just the inputs that are different. Not going to sim is not a problem either way. Another thing is that all cars should be feeling the same on simulation as well, if that's the case. Still, I completely disagree, the cars don't feel the same on normal, unless you tune them in very similar manners.

 

[VXR]

Not one car I've reviewed feels the same as another and I use normal steering, whilst most of my subjects have been FWD.

 

[SlipZtrEm]

I've now driven somewhere between 360-380 of the cars in the game. While some of the muscle cars do feel similar (not terribly surprising, given the dimensions, tires, and power), as @VXR alluded, the FF cars feel decidedly different from one another. Even the two Elises I've driven stock felt quite different.

Seems someone's just making things up. Again.

 

[Speedster911]

I've now driven somewhere between 360-380 of the cars in the game. While some of the muscle cars do feel similar (not terribly surprising, given the dimensions, tires, and power), as @VXR alluded, the FF cars feel decidedly different from one another. Even the two Elises I've driven stock felt quite different.

Seems someone's just making things up. Again.

And do you always stick to normal steering? On a controller?

 

[ImaRobot]

And do you always stick to normal steering? On a controller?

I've already answered as far. Normal Steering does not make all cars feel the same.

 

[SlipZtrEm]

And do you always stick to normal steering? On a controller?

Mostly. I had experimented with Sim steering back before the general population release and found it still felt like FM4's (feeling far less realistic, not more so). I haven't tried it after the January title update though, so if it's more in line with what FH2's was versus that game's Normal steering, it may convince me to stick with it.

 

[ImaRobot]

Mostly. I had experimented with Sim steering back before the general population release and found it still felt like FM4's (feeling far less realistic, not more so). I haven't tried it after the January title update though, so if it's more in line with what FH2's was versus that game's Normal steering, it may convince me to stick with it.

I haven't tried it on FH2 but in comparison to the past, its easier. They must have put some dampening on the inputs.

 

[Demetrius 81]

Sim steering does not alter the physics in any way but it does change your entire approach to cornering in the game. The difference between normal and sim steering is the level of speed sensitive steering applied to your inputs whenever you touch the steering.

Normal steering reduces the the amount you can steer depending on how fast you are going which to me feels more like I am leaning on the assist rather than the tyres through a corner, with sim steering the SSS is still applied but to a much lesser extent with makes cornering a much more thoughtful process with a lot more to consider but with time and practice becomes intuitive and far less inconsistent as others have described.

As for Horizon I feel very little difference between the two modes so I hope FM never gets FH's sim steering.

 

[McLaren]

I can take all other assists off and I can enjoy most cars, but simulation steering still gives me a headache. I just don't enjoy the game as much with it on. More power to anyone who does enjoy it though, it's not a bad thing if you enjoy it, I just don't.

Agreed. For the past Forzas, I always played on Simulation, but with FM6, it was very different. Playing with a controller meant constantly fidgeting the analog in the turns to keep the car stable, and it felt overly sensitive to input making it rather easy to lose control.

I do think this speaks more to how much better the physics have gotten & that simulation steering probably plays 100x better with an actual steering wheel for better input. With the analog sticks though, there's not a whole lot of room for error like there is with normal steering. However, I may take @Nielsen's and try it again after this latest update.

I started out with s.steering in F4 and never looked back. I was already used to holding the analog stick at certain angles and making intricate corrections, so sim steering came naturally.

If anything sim steering and no assists will help him come to terms with the deep physics engine. That's why I also mentioned "lots of patience and practice".

With normal, he may never want to go to sim, as normal is too easy and basic - all cars feel the same.

As for the triggers, those are rather sensitive as the travel is less than that of an X360 controller. Still 0/100 deads should help him practice the art of trigger throttle and brake manipulation around corners.

Not true. Both 458s react very lively & require a bit of finesse to be properly fast. Meanwhile, a car with a different setup like C7Z drives as it should, differently; it's much more planted & easier to push to its limits. It doesn't react as violently to lift off as the 458 can.

This all happens regardless of what steering mode you choose.

 

[Speedster911]

Agreed. For the past Forzas, I always played on Simulation, but with FM6, it was very different. Playing with a controller meant constantly fidgeting the analog in the turns to keep the car stable, and it felt overly sensitive to input making it rather easy to lose control.

I do think this speaks more to how much better the physics have gotten & that simulation steering probably plays 100x better with an actual steering wheel for better input. With the analog sticks though, there's not a whole lot of room for error like there is with normal steering. However, I may take @Nielsen's and try it again after this latest update.

Not true. Both 458s react very lively & require a bit of finesse to be properly fast. Meanwhile, a car with a different setup like C7Z drives as it should, differently; it's much more planted & easier to push to its limits. It doesn't react as violently to lift off as the 458 can.

This all happens regardless of what steering mode you choose.

Cool. Normal just feels dead to me; guess I'm too used to sim's liveliness and responsiveness though I have seen many folks (here and official forums) recommend "normal" on the controller.

Sim steering does not alter the physics in anyway but it does change your entire approach to cornering in the game. The difference between normal and sim steering is the level speed sensitive steering applied to your inputs whenever you touch the steering.

Normal steering reduces the the amount you can steer depending on how fast you are going which to me feels more like I am leaning on the assist rather than the tyres through a corner, with sim steering the sss is still applied but to a much lesser extent with makes cornering a much more thoughtful process with a lot more to consider but with time and practice becomes intuitive and far less inconsistent as others have described.

As for Horizon I feel very little difference between the two modes so I hope FM never gets FH's sim steering.

That's precisely the point I was getting across. A lot more thought, intuition and practice is required to effectively negotiate corners.

I've already answered as far. Normal Steering does not make all cars feel the same.

Pardon? That was for SlipZtrem.

 

[VXR]

Liveliness is all well and good, but it doesn't make it realistic.

 

[Demetrius 81]

Liveliness is all well and good, but it doesn't make it realistic.

I don't think anyone actually mentioned realism, some of us just don't want our experience diluted anymore than it has to be by an assist that changes how you steer.

 

[ImaRobot]

I don't think anyone actually mentioned realism, some of us just don't want our experience diluted anymore than it has to be by an assist that changes how you steer.

While you're correct in saying that no one has mentioned it. It seems to be the general consensus when people post in reply to why we think it's not realistic. As if to imply that the points stated in the retort are what make it so.

Cool. Normal just feels dead to me; guess I'm too used to sim's liveliness and responsiveness though I have seen many folks (here and official forums) recommend "normal" on the controller.

So you seemed to flip flop with that statement, was there any thought poured into it in the first place?

That's precisely the point I was getting across. A lot more thought, intuition and practice is required to effectively negotiate corners.

So, everything that you didn't say, was your point? Yeah, no wonder it was hard for others to make any sense of what you're saying in regards.

Pardon? That was for SlipZtrem.

If you're going to keep insinuating that all the cars feel the same, then I'm going to keep insisting that's not true. You're on a public forum buddy, if you didn't want people to call you out and correct your blank claims publicly, then maybe you should take your conversations to private messages, otherwise, there's no reason to cry about it.

 

[Speedster911]

While you're correct in saying that no one has mentioned it. It seems to be the general consensus when people post in reply to why we think it's not realistic. As if to imply that the points stated in the retort are what make it so.


So you seemed to flip flop with that statement, was there any thought poured into it in the first place?


So, everything that you didn't say, was your point? Yeah, no wonder it was hard for others to make any sense of what you're saying in regards.


If you're going to keep insinuating that all the cars feel the same, then I'm going to keep insisting that's not true. You're on a public forum buddy, if you didn't want people to call you out and correct your blank claims publicly, then maybe you should take you're conversations to private messages, otherwise, there's no reason to cry about it.

Err... yeah, I never make sense. No one gets me. And thanks for the advice on private conversations.

*wahh wahhhh*

Liveliness is all well and good, but it doesn't make it realistic.

How do you feel about F5's sim steering? It feels a bit more direct and realistic to me (perhaps even less twitchy), compared to real-life high speed steering inputs.

 

[ImaRobot]

*wahh wahhhh*

I'm not so sure why you'd get so offended in the first place, as the problem stemmed from you, not me.

As far as sim steering goes, the only thing I can notice that is different from the past, is that countersteering is much easier. It is still far from realistic, though.

I don't think anyone actually mentioned realism, some of us just don't want our experience diluted anymore than it has to be by an assist that changes how you steer.

realistic to me

Demetrius, even though it was unsaid at the time, this is the reason why the mention of being realistic likely comes up. It has happened on more than one occasion, so the assumption was easily made.

 

[SlipZtrEm]

Pardon? That was for SlipZtrem.

To which I answered. Again, I've driven well over 2/3 of the cars in the game at this point, and the majority do in fact feel different from one another.

Simulation steering, at least pre-content update, felt like it followed the "more difficult = more realistic" mindset.

 

[VXR]

On a controller as loose as the Xbox One's, the last thing I want is an input method that removes consistency and involves twitchiness.

 

[Speedster911]

I'm not so sure why you'd get so offended in the first place, as the problem stemmed from you, not me.

As far as sim steering goes, the only thing I can notice that is different from the past, is that countersteering is much easier. It is still far from realistic, though.



Demetrius, even though it was unsaid at the time, this is the reason why the mention of being realistic likely comes up. It has happened on more than one occasion, so the assumption was easily made.

Offended? Look here matey, there is no "problem"; as usual you are butt-hurt about people (by that I mean ME )not agreeing with your opinion.

Now why can't you be polite to ALL members and respond the way you responded to Demetrius when your opinion differed? Sheesh, it's a forum where people have differences of opinion every day - get over yourself.

To which I answered. Again, I've driven well over 2/3 of the cars in the game at this point, and the majority do in fact feel different from one another.

Simulation steering, at least pre-content update, felt like it followed the "more difficult = more realistic" mindset.

How many of these cars or generally fast cars have you pushed to the edge IRL? Based on that, can you say sim steering is more realistic? I'm assuming to truly put this to the test, one would have to be using a wheel.

It's cool you find normal steering more accurate. To me, it feels dull and linear.

On a controller as loose as the Xbox One's, the last thing I want is an input method that removes consistency and involves twitchiness.

Okay now... from a gaming perspective strictly, "sim" might feel twitchy. From a purely driving perspective, it gets you more involved and introduced many nuances that you simply do not experience using "normal".

Hey, by all means stick to normal, though the other mode forces you to be more mindful of braking points, racing lines and entry/exit strategy.

 

[SlipZtrEm]

How many of these cars or generally fast cars have you pushed to the edge IRL? Based on that, can you say sim steering is more realistic? I'm assuming to truly put this to the test, one would have to be using a wheel.

It's cool you find normal steering more accurate. To me, it feels dull and linear.

What does any of this have to do with your original claim that all the cars feel the same? Stop moving the goalposts.

Feel free to answer those two question for yourself, as well.

On a wheel, perhaps sim steering is more realistic: I'm not sure, as I've had limited experience with the hardware on FM6, and definitely not any post update. But on the controller, Simulation steering simply introduces more difficulty for the sake of it. The limited range of motion on a pad stick versus the 900+ degrees a wheel has means some levels of controller aids are needed to replicate the movements offered by the latter, on the former. No car I've ever driven in the real world responded in remotely the same spiky, overly-sensitive way Sim steering has so far showcased for me.

I'm planning on sitting down to do some comparisons in game this week between the two steering modes, as I really am curious about the supposed changes involved here. To illustrate why I've stuck with Normal: in FM4, @Scaff suggested as much, with literal decades of professional driver training behind him.

If you can explain why linearity is a bad thing in steering, I'm all ears.