What's your opinion about Japan?

[Lizard]

Let's see... Catholicism, art, trade, beef, bread, wine.

Catholicism is subjective. I wouldn't call that a major contribution that aided their culture. Not everyone is Catholic you know.
Art. Japanese art is pretty beautiful actually. Have you not seen woodblock prints?
Beef? Cattle has been around for ages since at least the second century.
Wine I will give you.
Bread as well from what I have read. Wheat has been around for a while though but it was harder to grow than rice so everyone grew rice. The reason bread was popular in Europe was because the climate favoured wheat.

 

[Joel]

Question some of the things about the war that in the past it has always been bowing down in tears of apology over.

I think that's a bit of a stretch.

There's a reason Merkel isn't expected to apologize for the Holocaust in 2015.

 

[Omnis]

Catholicism is subjective. I wouldn't call that a major contribution that aided their culture. Not everyone is Catholic you know.
Art. Japanese art is pretty beautiful actually. Have you not seen woodblock prints?
Beef? Cattle has been around for ages since at least the second century.
Wine I will give you.
Bread as well from what I have read. Wheat has been around for a while though but it was harder to grow than rice so everyone grew rice. The reason bread was popular in Europe was because the climate favoured wheat.

Sure it did. Just like buddhism did. You're kidding yourself if you think otherwise.
Japanese art is cool. But the westerners had some positive influence too.
Cattle aren't native to japan. They only got there in the 6th century. Nobody knows how. But these cattle, the ancestors of the mishima cattle, were thin and not fit for consumption. Plus, the buddhists banned meat consumption so nobody cared. There would be no beef industry in japan if it weren't for foreign beef cattle they brought over.
The reason bread is popular is because bread is ****ing delicious.

 

[Imari]

Sure it did. Just like buddhism did. You're kidding yourself if you think otherwise.

In what way has Catholicism had a major impact on Japanese culture? The vast majority of Japanese are Shintoist or Buddhist. A large proportion of Japanese don't really identify as religious, but when they take part in religious activities it tends to be one of those, just as non-religious Westerners will still take part in Christian weddings or Christmas.

Saying that Catholicism had a major impact on Japanese culture is like saying that Buddhism or Hinduism had a major impact on the USA. They exist, but I seriously doubt the society would look much different were they not to have been. The religions with major impact in the USA are the Abrahamic religions, primarily the various flavours of Christianity. Buddhism and Hinduism don't even come close to that.

In Japan, the situation is reversed. Buddhism and Shintoism were profoundly important in shaping the way Japan's culture evolved. Catholicism barely made a dent.

Japanese art is cool. But the westerners had some positive influence too.

No doubt you're aware of the significant influence that Japanese art had on European art movements in the 1800s?

It's a two way street, as it always is when cultures meet. Western art influenced Japanese art, and vice versa.

 

[Omnis]

If the United states didn't have Sikhs, we wouldn't have awesome frozen indian food. It's a two way street.

 

[Imari]

If the United states didn't have Sikhs, we wouldn't have awesome frozen indian food. It's a two way street.

Are you claiming that frozen Indian food is a major contribution to American society?

I didn't say Catholicism had no influence on Japan, I took exception to your implication that it was a major influence and comparable to the influence of Buddhism.

Feel free to label some of the ways that Catholicism has made a major impact on Japanese society. That's going to be a lot easier than any other way of doing this.

 

[Omnis]

Do not underestimate the cultural significance of indian food.

I only include catholicism because it was the first time a major part of a major foreign culture was introduced to Japan. You might call it the birth of xenophobia. White people arriving on the island was radically different from mainlander dealings.

 

[Imari]

I only include catholicism because it was the first time a major part of a major foreign culture was introduced to Japan.

Apart from the Chinese, you mean? Or are we only talking recent history?

And I'm fairly sure that the Buddha wasn't Japanese either, so there's some fairly major cultural introduction going on there.

Why not just cut this short and name some of the ways in which Catholicism had a major impact on Japanese culture?

 

[Omnis]

First of all, haitch changed the pretense by which I included Catholicism.

Let us review:

Not going to go over all your points as I don't have time but what do you think the Portuguese did for Japan?

Obviously, the Portuguese brought their religion, among the other things I listed.

Catholicism is subjective. I wouldn't call that a major contribution that aided their culture.

I rolled with this earlier because I didn't think we'd have such a hardcore session of Japanese apologetics. I don't really care what @haitch40 thinks, @Imari, but as I said earlier, if you don't think Catholicism brought over by the missionaries had a major contribution to Japan, you're fooling yourself. It may not have been an active one, but the banishment and the following isolation were significant in Japan's history. And it led to Commodore Perry. Could you imagine if the god damn Russians opened Japan instead of 'Murica? Japanese kids would be playing hockey and gundams would all look like kalashnikovs with legs.

Seriously, though, I don't really care to have an argument about history unless you want to ask me why I shared my opinions. All the things I listed made Japan better to me. To me.

 

[Imari]

I rolled with this earlier because I didn't think we'd have such a hardcore session of Japanese apologetics.

Ah, and so the name calling starts. How about we see if we can have a discussion without you resorting to insults?

I don't see that I'm apologising for anything about Japan, I'm merely trying to get at the reasoning for your statement that Catholicism was a major influence on Japan.

I don't really care what @haitch40 thinks, @Imari, but as I said earlier, if you don't think Catholicism brought over by the missionaries had a major contribution to Japan, you're fooling yourself.

And yet you're having such a hard time naming these major contributions that Catholicism has made to Japan. So much so that you keep falling back on this pattern of telling me that I'm fooling myself instead of just telling me what the contributions are.

It may not have been an active one, but the banishment and the following isolation were significant in Japan's history. And it led to Commodore Perry. Could you imagine if the god damn Russians opened Japan instead of 'Murica? Japanese kids would be playing hockey and gundams would all look like kalashnikovs with legs.

Somehow you seem to think that a policy that essentially excluded the group with the most ardent Christian missionaries from trade with Japan is equal to making a major contribution to Japan. If anything, it's the opposite; they were forcibly restrained from making a significant contribution to Japan for an extended period, because the Japanese government feared what they might do if given free rein.

And Commodore Perry is not Catholicism. Neither is baseball or firearms. Hell, the refusal to allow Portuguese ships didn't even really slow down trade, the Japanese just traded with the Dutch and the Koreans instead. They didn't miss out on any Western technology or anything, they just got it through the Dutch.

The seclusionary period was, in part, caused by fear of Christian missionaries. But it cut off the major supply of missionaries and drove the Christian movement underground, where their influence was severely limited. Catholicism was starting to have an impact before the seclusion and arguably would have had a fairly large influence had the seclusion not happened, given the amount of people in positions of power that were being swayed to Christianity.

But it wasn't like that. Catholicism in Japan got cut off at the knees before it really managed to have any major effect other than instigating policies that led to it's own demise. I don't see how a movement that got killed at the first sign of it gaining significant power could be claimed to have a major influence on Japanese culture, and I certainly don't see it in the Japanese culture of today. Japanese culture is what it is today in part precisely because Catholicism wasn't allowed to have a major effect at a key point in history.

Again, if you can point out what aspects of modern Japanese culture were influenced by Catholicism, then go for it.

Seriously, though, I don't really care to have an argument about history unless you want to ask me why I shared my opinions. All the things I listed made Japan better to me. To me.

Great.

Once you start claiming that Catholicism had a major impact on Japanese culture and start telling anyone who questions that they're kidding themselves to believe otherwise, I don't think it's unfair for me to request a little justification and reasoning for your opinion.

You're only entitled to opinions you can defend. Standing up and shouting "But it's only my opinion!" doesn't make your argument any more convincing. If anything, it's just more deflection from your inability to describe HOW Catholicism affected Japan. Which presumably, if you formed the opinion in the first place you have some reason for thinking so.

I don't care why you shared your opinion. It's the internet, you can do whatever you want. I'm interested in why you formed the opinion at all, if you care to share your reasoning. It's an interesting part of the history of a country I find fairly interesting, so I'm keen to hear other people's opinions about it, if they can do so without calling me a fool or an apologist.

 

[a6m5]

Wow, @Omnis. I haven't seen this much sweeping generalization in a very long time. Thanks to so many Americans I've actually got to interact with after their visit to Japan, about their fond memory of the place, I can just laugh at the xenophobia thing you keep bringing up. Yes, some Japanese people gets nervous around foreigners, even till this day. If they are still treating you with respect & courtesy, who cares if they are not comfortable with you inside?

I think after thinking about this my views are mostly positive but WWII holds it back a lot.

Don't let it hold back too much. Today, these two nations are mutually trusted allies. In today's world filled with many uncertainties, that's a big security to both.

WW2 makes a lot of countries look bad.

I do agree to a degree, but no question in my mind which coalition handled themselves more poorly in occupied territories. As for our Imperial troops, no excuse for their behavior in Asia. None.

I think that's a bit of a stretch.

There's a reason Merkel isn't expected to apologize for the Holocaust in 2015.

I'm kinda in the middle on this one. On one hand, I do think Japan owe some of these Asian nations an official apology. There's been a few already, but this time a real, official, ceremonial type apology. Having said that, I have zero doubt in my mind that Chinese & Koreans are absolutely hooked on this magical propaganda machine that deflects so much of heat off their own administration.

 

[Omnis]

Wow, @Omnis. I haven't seen this much sweeping generalization in a very long time.

That's the joke.

@Imari: name-calling? Seriously? You think that I'm insulting you because you're defending Japan with information? Did you notice why I used the word apologetics, or did you miss that irony? Where's your sense of humor? Anyway, I don't know how you can say that catholicism had no role whatsoever in Japanese culture. I see where you're coming from, but since you really want to argue, I don't think it is correct. Let's ask this... did Cubans influence American culture? Hell yes they did. Even after embargoing them because they became communist sons of bitches, we still have rum, mojitos, cigars, and salsa/mambo/cha-cha. The portuguese were kicked out but Japan still had guns, hidden christians, and nanban chicken.

Let's not forget their contributions to trade, education, hospitals, and even the start of japan's dairy industry. Japanese people consume 6 million tons of dairy product per year. If it wasn't for some trappist monks with blocks of parmigiano reggiano for balls, everyone would be stuck with nasty-ass soy milk and vegan cheese.

No influence is too small when considering culture. Exchange is the lifeblood of humanity and all civilization.

 

[a6m5]

I did take it seriously & literally(easy to do on the internet). This isn't the Rumble Strip!

 

[Omnis]

I didn't expect the spanish inquisition.

 

[Tornado]

Somehow you seem to think that a policy that essentially excluded the group with the most ardent Christian missionaries from trade with Japan is equal to making a major contribution to Japan. If anything, it's the opposite; they were forcibly restrained from making a significant contribution to Japan for an extended period, because the Japanese government feared what they might do if given free rein.

A wide sweeping federal policy change out of fear sounds like a pretty huge influence on Japanese history to me.

But it wasn't like that. Catholicism in Japan got cut off at the knees before it really managed to have any major effect other than instigating policies that led to it's own demise. I don't see how a movement that got killed at the first sign of it gaining significant power could be claimed to have a major influence on Japanese culture, and I certainly don't see it in the Japanese culture of today. Japanese culture is what it is today in part precisely because Catholicism wasn't allowed to have a major effect at a key point in history.

Ditto this. Sounds an awful lot like "the nail that sticks out" when you explain it like that.

 

[Imari]

@Imari: name-calling? Seriously? You think that I'm insulting you because you're defending Japan with information? Did you notice why I used the word apologetics, or did you miss that irony?

When it's coming from someone who starts off with the statement that Japan would be a hell hole without the Portuguese, I think it's pretty hard to expect me to pick up what's humour and what isn't. Maybe your whole contribution to this thread has been tongue in cheek, but it doesn't seem so from the way it's evolved, and that particular comment fitted in pretty well with your general disdain for anyone who doesn't object to Japan as much as you.

It's the internet. There's no intonation, inflection, or body language. If you're making a joke, at least have the decency to use a smiley. If not, don't get pissy when people actually assume that you mean what you say.

You have 35,000 posts. How am I having to point this stuff out to you?

Anyway, I don't know how you can say that catholicism had no role whatsoever in Japanese culture.

Straw man.

I never said Catholicism had no role in Japanese culture. That would be obtuse. I took exception to your statement that Catholicism had a major impact on Japanese culture.

I specifically went through how Catholicism had enough of an impact that the Japanese leadership felt the need to remove the threat before they gathered enough power to make a major impact. That's implicitly saying that they had at least a minor impact, enough to show that Catholicism was a threat to the way the then power structure wanted Japan to evolve.

I see where you're coming from, but since you really want to argue, I don't think it is correct.

Of course it isn't, because that's not what I said. It's easy to make me sound incorrect when you're replying to statements I didn't make.

Let's ask this... did Cubans influence American culture? Hell yes they did. Even after embargoing them because they became communist sons of bitches, we still have rum, mojitos, cigars, and salsa/mambo/cha-cha.

And would you describe this as a major influence on American culture?

The portuguese were kicked out but Japan still had guns, hidden christians, and nanban chicken.

And would you describe those as a major influence on Japanese culture?

Let's not forget also, Portuguese =/= Catholicism.

Let's not forget their contributions to trade, education, hospitals, and even the start of japan's dairy industry. Japanese people consume 6 million tons of dairy product per year. If it wasn't for some trappist monks with blocks of parmigiano reggiano for balls, everyone would be stuck with nasty-ass soy milk and vegan cheese.

Let's be careful here and at least attempt to separate out the contributions of Catholicism and simple contact with another culture. All the contributions to trade, education, etc. had nothing to do with Catholicism, they just happened to come from traders who were Catholics. The effect would have been largely the same regardless of the religion of the traders, and so that's not an effect of Catholicism.

No influence is too small when considering culture. Exchange is the lifeblood of humanity and all civilization.

Unless you're trying to claim that something was a major influence, in which case a lot of things are too small.

You're moving the goalposts from claiming that Catholicism had a major influence to that it simply had an influence. Of course it had an influence; if nothing else there were Catholics afterwards that weren't there before.

But I don't think it was a major influence, for reasons that I've gone through in reasonable detail. If you still don't understand, ask.

On the other hand, you've provided me with a bunch of reasons why trade with Portugal influenced Japanese culture, and attempted to conflate that with Catholicism. And hidden Christians, which admittedly are a direct effect of Catholicism, but given that they're such a tiny minority and were specifically restrained for a significant period from wielding any power or even being publically visible, I'd suggest that they're not a major impact.

A wide sweeping federal policy change out of fear sounds like a pretty huge influence on Japanese history to me.


Ditto this. Sounds an awful lot like "the nail that sticks out" to me.

If you define having a major effect as instigating a rule to stop them being a huge influence, sure. To me that doesn't seem like a useful definition, as it just means that anything anyone does ever is a huge influence on Japanese history.

Sweeping reforms? Huge influence. Refuse to make sweeping reforms? Huge influence. It becomes meaningless.

I prefer to think of having an effect as actually making some sort of change happen. Apart from the minor change of stopping trade with the Portuguese (which was replaced with trade with other nations), the whole point of the policy was to reduce the amount of change that was happening to Japanese culture as a result of Catholicism.

This is my point. Catholicism instigated a minor change, the seclusion policy, which prevented what would have likely been a major cultural change, widespread Catholicism, the destruction of Shintoism and Buddhism, and foreign powers potentially gaining a foothold in Japanese politics.

Instead, Japanese culture was allowed to continue to develop more or less under it's own steam, retaining it's traditional religions and still reaping the majority of the benefits from foreign trade. The only major effect was that they stopped the influx of Catholics and drove the current Catholics underground, both of which were very recent affairs anyway.

Maybe people who think that Japan should be Catholic and more western see that as a major effect. I see that as stopping a major effect from occurring, given that it returned what was the status quo before the Portuguese arrived.

If Mormons come to your door and start talking to you, it's not much of an impact on your life when you just tell them to go away. It would be a fairly major impact if you had kept talking to them and converted to Mormonism, but simply telling them that you don't want their religion in your life isn't really a major thing.

I see this the same way, just scaled up a bit. Japan saw what the Catholics were doing to Japan and said "We don't like this. No thanks." Life resumes, everyone carries on.

 

[BobK]

I didn't expect the spanish inquisition.

Oh, come now, people! @Omnis dangles this line out there, and nobody jumps on it?

 

[LMSCorvetteGT2]

I love Japanese culture and have known a few Japanese people that treated me well (most Asian nationals are quite nice except for the often rude Filipinos I've come in contact with), that stated the domestic issues that they have have always rubbed me the wrong way and made me really step back from the glamour the place is given by other nations media.

I think what keeps me coming back to it an a few other nations is the history, the art, the cuisine, car culture, engineering and the little quarks that give it this mystique unlike many other nations. Overall I like it and would love to visit but entrenching myself there for a long period I probably wouldn't.

 

[Tornado]

To me that doesn't seem like a useful definition, as it just means that anything anyone does ever is a huge influence on Japanese history.

It doesn't mean that at all. The movie Mr. Baseball didn't have a huge influence on Japanese culture. Japanese Spiderman didn't have a huge influence on Japanese culture. Even major world events like 9/11 probably didn't effect Japanese culture much at all.





In comparison, the Japanese "government" feared the small group of Catholic missionaries, so they specifically changed Japanese laws to try to forcibly prevent any outside influence by the religion from gaining any foothold (and eroding their power base?). This lead to a two hundred year period of pretty strict isolation (meaning they happily had financial dealings with a small handful of countries that didn't have much religious influence in their governments and went out of their way to disallow any others in) and religious persecution while pretty much the entire rest of the world was having a ball with colonialism and conflict and religious expansion. Japan tended to their own house instead. Being Christian (and in some cases, being foreign) was a capital offense at times. There were times where they responded to foreign ships attempting to enter Japanese ports by throwing up hundreds of ships to blockade them. Japan didn't just deem Catholicism as not being for them and went about their business without it. The government actively rebelled against any attempt of the mere threat of its spread. This is a concept that even some of Japanese media portrays; and is arguably still an institution regularly practiced in Japan today (or at least is one perceived as being the case by outsiders), albeit focused towards different things.

What part of that doesn't sound like a heavy influence on Japanese history? Even if you want to say the actions of then are tenuous to link to the culture today, how does that change the actions then? The Japanese government was against Christian influence to the point of violence towards it, and isn't such a reaction an action in itself?

 

[Omnis]

When it's coming from someone who starts off with the statement that Japan would be a hell hole without the Portuguese, I think it's pretty hard to expect me to pick up what's humour and what isn't. Maybe your whole contribution to this thread has been tongue in cheek, but it doesn't seem so from the way it's evolved, and that particular comment fitted in pretty well with your general disdain for anyone who doesn't object to Japan as much as you.

It's the internet. There's no intonation, inflection, or body language. If you're making a joke, at least have the decency to use a smiley. If not, don't get pissy when people actually assume that you mean what you say.

Consider this practice. ...

Straw man.

I never said Catholicism had no role in Japanese culture. That would be obtuse. I took exception to your statement that Catholicism had a major impact on Japanese culture.

Fair enough. But now this is just semantics. Let's settle it as a difference of opinion.

And would you describe this as a major influence on American culture?

Of course! Sipping on a cortadito is a religious experience. (pardon the pun. ... oh: )

And would you describe those as a major influence on Japanese culture?

The guns that turned the samurai into swiss cheese? (Cheese that the trappists brought.) Yeah, I would call that pretty major. I would also describe nanban chicken as major delicious.

All the contributions to trade, education, etc. had nothing to do with Catholicism, they just happened to come from traders who were Catholics. The effect would have been largely the same regardless of the religion of the traders, and so that's not an effect of Catholicism.

I have to take exception to this. Thousands of Japanese were educated or cared for in Catholic schools, orphanages, and hospitals.

Unless you're trying to claim that something was a major influence, in which case a lot of things are too small.

You're moving the goalposts from claiming that Catholicism had a major influence to that it simply had an influence. Of course it had an influence; if nothing else there were Catholics afterwards that weren't there before.

It was a major influence as far as I was concerned. Beef, bread, wine? Nanban chicken? Harrerujah!

On the other hand, you've provided me with a bunch of reasons why trade with Portugal influenced Japanese culture, and attempted to conflate that with Catholicism.

The catholic mission established trade with the western world. Did it not?

If Mormons come to your door and start talking to you, it's not much of an impact on your life when you just tell them to go away. It would be a fairly major impact if you had kept talking to them and converted to Mormonism, but simply telling them that you don't want their religion in your life isn't really a major thing.

But I would have discovered Mormons, and a magical place that I didn't know existed!

 

[phillgt2002]

Eh, Japan seems pretty decent, though it isn't what these Otaku freaks make it seem.

I've been planning a small vacation out there, and really, all I want to do is visit some of the small tuning shops out there and eat Ramen.

Oh, and I don't like Anime much, and I hate the fact that they have Hentai strung up in places it should not be.

 

[Imari]

This lead to a two hundred year period of pretty strict isolation (meaning they happily had financial dealings with a small handful of countries that didn't have much religious influence in their governments and went out of their way to disallow any others in)...

You should know that they never really had free trade with all the western countries anyway. I think Portugal, the Dutch and England and that was about it. The rest was "local" stuff, Korea, Russia, China, etc.

It really wasn't as strict an isolation as a lot of people think it was. They ditched Portugal, I think England had given up some time before because it wasn't that profitable, and so they kept dealing with the Dutch. I'm guessing the trade wasn't massive in the first place or there would have been more countries fighting for a slice of the pie before they closed themselves off.

...while pretty much the entire rest of the world was having a ball with colonialism and conflict and religious expansion.

At what point did Japan seem like it was going to join in on this without the seclusion policy? Most of the time Japan was either fending off Mongols or busy with another of it's endless civil wars. I don't see much hint in Japanese history that they would have pressed for colonies or religious expansion even had the seclusion policy not been in place.

Being Christian (and in some cases, being foreign) was a capital offense at times.

Try it without the viewpoint of your own culture.

Being Christian and/or foreign as a capital offense seems like a big deal to you, because you're likely one and probably both. It automatically strikes a chord.

To the vast majority of Japanese people at the time, such a law probably didn't mean a damn thing. There were a relatively tiny amount of foreigners or Christians in the country, so chances are they'd never even see the effects unless they were involved in trade or in one of the major ports. To random Joe Japanese, this changed absolutely nothing about the society and culture he lived in. It's one step down from making being a Martian a capital offense.

If America made being Luxembourgian a capital offense, I think I'm fairly safe in saying it would mean nothing to most Americans. It certainly wouldn't change American culture.

(Well, it might these days because you'd probably have protests and hash tags and all the rest of our wonderfully interconnected world. But without that, back in ye olde days when up-to-date news was only a few weeks old and arrived by horse? Nah.)

This is a concept that even some of Japanese media portrays; and is arguably still an institution regularly practiced in Japan today (or at least is one perceived as being the case by outsiders), albeit focused towards different things.

What?

Is this what it sounds like? A particularly brutal condemnation of the Japanese for being wholly xenophobic? Or are you trying to say something else?

Because if you're saying what it sounds like, either you haven't been to Japan or you had a singularly unlucky experience.

Japanese people really aren't that xenophobic. If you're white or black you'll probably get stared at, simply because you're unique. If a green person walked down the street in New York they'd get stared at too. There really aren't that many non-Asian people in Japan, and if you're outside a big city you'll probably go days without seeing another one.

A lot of Japanese do have a thing against the Chinese and the Koreans, but that's for fairly understandable historic reasons. Fifty years ago Britain probably had a fairly similar response to the Germans. It's not xenophobia, it's rational distrust based on past actions.

You'll meet the odd xenophobe, but you get that in any country. I used to flat with a girl whose grandfather hated Asians. Not because he was in the war, not because of anything that they had done, but just because he didn't like the look of them.

What part of that doesn't sound like a heavy influence on Japanese history? Even if you want to say the actions of then are tenuous to link to the culture today, how does that change the actions then? The Japanese government was against Christian influence to the point of violence towards it, and isn't such a reaction an action in itself?

Like I said, I think of having an effect as making change happen. We're talking specifically about Japanese culture and society. I don't see the change that Catholicism made in Japanese culture and society, then or now. I see the society actively resisting change.

The change you're talking about is the change in behaviour of a relatively small group of individuals, with regards to their policy about trade and religion. The non-change I'm talking about is the rejection of Catholicism and the continuation of the "traditional" way of life.

What you're talking about with blockades and so forth are far more trivial incidents than even a minor war. Yeah, they seem big but on the scale of a whole nation they're really not. Especially in an era where openly violent conflict was much more commonplace than it is today and half of Japan spent most of it's time at war with the other half.

A comparable example might be America in Afghanistan. This is an action that America has taken in defense of it's way of life in response to terrorism. Afghanistan has cost a lot of lives and affected a lot of people, but I'm not sure that the culture and society of America today has been impacted in a major way by this. It may be in the future, as would any country be if it lived in constant fear of terrorism for decades, but in general I think most Americans go about their lives in much the same way as before America went into Afghanistan.

==========

Consider this practice. ...

It was a major influence as far as I was concerned. Beef, bread, wine? Nanban chicken? Harrerujah!

But I would have discovered Mormons, and a magical place that I didn't know existed!

You're just trolling me now. If you weren't a moderator I'd have you on ignore. I'm sorry I tried to engage you in civil conversation.

 

[jimipitbull]

You will find that a lot of this new hatred is from Asian states as the Japanese government is starting to 1. Expand Japanese military and loosen restrictions on what it can do and 2. Question some of the things about the war that in the past it has always been bowing down in tears of apology over.

Why would Asian states be voting in a RIAA and BBC poll?

 

[Omnis]

You're just trolling me now. If you weren't a moderator I'd have you on ignore. I'm sorry I tried to engage you in civil conversation.

I'm not trolling you, I'm letting you win and having some fun in the process. You cannot be convinced, so I've given up. I've given my take on this topic. Good to know my opinion on 127 million people on some archipelago I've never been to matters so much.

Hey, what do you call portuguese platanos that were imported to Japan before the crackdown? Nanbananas.

 

[Lizard]

Why would Asian states be voting in a RIAA and BBC poll?

Read the article. It mentions Asian states.


Also since you brought up guns @Omnis. The Portuguese sold a grand total of 3 to the Japanese. The rest were Japanese made.

 

[Scaff]

They drive on the wrong side of the road.

No, no they don't.

If the United states didn't have Sikhs, we wouldn't have awesome frozen indian food. It's a two way street.

Don't buy it frozen, make it yourself......

 

[Furinkazen]

The Portuguese sold a grand total of 3 to the Japanese. The rest were Japanese made.

Arquebus to the Shimazu of Kyushu?

 

[Lizard]

Arquebus to the Shimazu of Kyushu?

Tanegashima actually had it's own clan.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tanegashima_clan

 

[Slash]

This is why I stay out of these threads.

 

[Johnnypenso]

This is why I stay out of these threads.

You don't like frozen Indian food?