Where did PD go Wrong?

  • Thread starter MaDHaX
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All these problems I think are caused by GT5's delay. If GT5 was not delayed, then all the cars would be up to date and it would've been an amazing game for its' time. But because 5 was delayed, everything's pushed back. GT6 would've been released a year ago, or maybe released this year with more features. Now PD's scrambling to get more modern cars and try and it fix all the problems with GT6's rushed released.
 
I was moved. Maybe. ;)

I know that some people just can't connect with GT like us fans do, much like we can't connect with the sims some of you love. I finally fired up the Assetto Corsa beta yesterday and after a LONG session trying to get things to gel... well, it sure feels like a beta.

G25 clutch wouldn't register, wheel response was dodgy, driver views didn't suit me and so on, so the racing was not all that satisfying. And it has a G25 template in the controller list! I know that it's a beta and all, but the same old sim flavor was there woven through what will likely be a pretty decent sim racer when it's finished, much like the GTRs and Live For Speed. And I like those games for what they are. I just don't care for them. Uninvolving, not immersive, dry, technical, tedious, not fun racing, every car is a loaner and they aren't really all that great in AC either. Just another racer made so online pros can impress each other with the size of their virtual trophies. Which is fine, but it's not my thing. Project CARS... might be The One Good Sim. But... I dunno, I guess we'll see.

I have a feeling that most GT and sim fans will never understand each other.

That's strange D, it sounds like you need to configure your wheel. Have you installed your G25 drivers for your PC?

Before PC sim racing there are afew things you should concentrate on before you can start enjoying the game.

1. Make sure your wheel drivers are installed and configured.

2. In game wheel controls should also be configured, like all the buttons and pedals. Make sure each button is assigned to what you want them to do, even if the default profiler is supposed to be for the G25.

3. Make sure you set your graphics so that you can have a good smooth frame rate.

As for the G25 wheel setting's, try this

Overall strengh try 101%
Spring 0%
Damper 0%

and have the in game centering checked.

I have been a GT fan for many years but the thing is, i'm more of a motor enthusiast than a GT fan. So you could just say that i'm a fan of motorsports, so any sim that can replicate closer to reality with all our senses will win for me.

Also if you dont mind answering these questions for my knowledge, have you played many PC sim's and what spec is your PC?
 
I have a feeling that most GT and sim fans will never understand each other.

Possibly because for what seems to be a reasonable proportion of GT fans, GT is all they play. You're an exception, you've tried other stuff and don't like it and that's fine. But for a lot of people it seems like they play GT, they've only ever played GT and will only ever play GT. And they still think that they're qualified to state that GT is the best.

Sim fans on the other hand have almost certainly tried GT, along with a lot of other stuff. If someone is a general sim fan instead of a GT fan, they try everything in case it might be good. Some like it, some don't. I still play GT5P every so often, because it's a really well put together little game.

The difference in range of experience means that there cannot ever really be a meeting of minds, because many GT fans don't have the knowledge to talk meaningfully about simulators. And they have no desire to gain that knowledge, they've found what they enjoy and have no need to search through other games.

I'm sorry if that sounds derogatory, but as far as I can tell it's true. In order to be a great fan of GT6 you either have to be enthused by one of the few things that it does well, or under the impression that GT is as good as it gets in all areas.
 
Aside from several flaws in every release (Nothing is perfect) I don't think PD have ever gone wrong.

Played every GT & loved them all... Although £25 for the Tokyo Geneva GT3 expansion was pushing their luck!
 
Possibly because for what seems to be a reasonable proportion of GT fans, GT is all they play. You're an exception, you've tried other stuff and don't like it and that's fine. But for a lot of people it seems like they play GT, they've only ever played GT and will only ever play GT. And they still think that they're qualified to state that GT is the best.
Well..... sort of. There is quite a goulash of experiences in here. It does seem that most of those who are sim racers and RL racers tend to fall on the opposing side. But there are some who really appreciate this crazy game like MX5racer, who races his Miata in real life and finds GT6 to represent his car's behavior admirably. My late and dearly missed Supra MkIII was portrayed in GT5 and 6 pretty well, better in GT6 because of the physics. I keep mentioning amar212 as a devoted fan who plays just about everything, thanks to his job as a gaming journalist, though he probably would regardless. Whether he's taken a car around a track or just a curvy stretch of road as I have, I don't know, but he has credentials few have in the racing genre. We are here, maybe not in overwhelming numbers, but we exist. ;)

It's not hard to understand why people from that side want Gran Turismo to be better, when they have games with better sounds, a little better physics, a focused and well fleshed out racing environment to the point they have league racing rules and the whole enchilada. Plus, there's that whole online thing cooking along well, with extensive communities and leagues. What's more, many of their games are enhanced with an active modding community, providing sometimes exciting and copious add-ons to the stock games.

What is hard to come to terms with is the harsh attitude which sometimes gets downright mean from some of them, towards Kaz and PD or even us. A few of the old hands have left because the neighborhood has gone downhill, and you almost have to watch your back around here if you're a fan. A few like Griffith500 who have been trying to moderate the atmosphere in here, have evidently realized that it's like asking a flood to please stop rising and be so wet. Yeah, people will be humans, and we have flaws.

Some of us fans think GT6 is fine, it just needs those features to finally come out. Some of us think Kaz is floundering to one extent or other, and needs to focus on what worked in Gran Turismo before that made just about everyone happy, as well as look at what works in other racers, like those sims I'm not all that fond of yet keep bringing up because they do many things right. So I'm one of those guys who doesn't want GT7 to just be another "GT5 but different" like GT6 is. I want that game to make everyone take notice because it's a real, mean (but nice), serious Gran Turismo for the next generation and the New Millennium. Like Shift tried to be, like Forza is trying to be, what P CARS might be. I know some think I'm loony for thinking so, but I know they can pull it off. The team has crazy skill. Kaz has experience. They just need to apply it and not get too Japanese. :D

That's strange D, it sounds like you need to configure your wheel.
I definitely do. My autocrossing relative came over saturday and helped get everything running properly, as he's also something of an IT guy and PC tech, and has extensive experience with his own gaming rig. I suggested getting the Logitech drivers for the wheel, but he thought the Windows drivers were good enough, though maybe he assumed the G25 template in AC meant that it had its own driver build. I'll definitely take that under advisement.

We got it running well enough, and he enjoyed it, though I was stunned at how wonky the wheel had integrated to the game. I was expecting something like the feel in the GTRs and Live For Speed, but the FFB pretty much died in the center eighth of travel, making steering very unsure. I'll have to save your settings and poke them in this weekend when I get some spare time - assuming I do, I have another massive move to do. But... I don't know. AC seems like Race Room with some street cars, another game I ponder trying from time to time. I'm beginning to think that P CARS will be the final shot at an enjoyable sim racer, since it has more appeal for me than AC. Of course, those won't be the last sims on the market, so we'll see.

The PC I believe is an Athlon quad core around 2.8ghz running Win7, 4 gigs ram and a Radeon 5450 or so with a gig of ram in it. Which I believe is still below the minimum recommended for AC. Still, it works just fine with the resolution toned down, and some AA applied. I'll make it a point to hop over to the AC threads if I need help with some ironing.
 
What is hard to come to terms with is the harsh attitude which sometimes gets downright mean from some of them, towards Kaz and PD or even us. A few of the old hands have left because the neighborhood has gone downhill, and you almost have to watch your back around here if you're a fan. A few like Griffith500 who have been trying to moderate the atmosphere in here, have evidently realized that it's like asking a flood to please stop rising and be so wet. Yeah, people will be humans, and we have flaws.

I do agree with you that people come across to harsh, almost to the point where it feels like they want to harm somebody. I think there needs to be an attempt to write in away that shows that the person in question is not happy with GT but can write in a mature manner without adding peoples mum's and dad's into the mix. As for the floods though, the water will keep rising until somebody can fix the drainage problem. I mean we will always keep getting flooded if there hasnt been much of an improvement, especially when the complaints are of a particular area of GT only for it to remain the same.

I definitely do. My autocrossing relative came over saturday and helped get everything running properly, as he's also something of an IT guy and PC tech, and has extensive experience with his own gaming rig. I suggested getting the Logitech drivers for the wheel, but he thought the Windows drivers were good enough, though maybe he assumed the G25 template in AC meant that it had its own driver build. I'll definitely take that under advisement.

You should deffinetly download and install the Logitech G25 drivers, install that and configure it. Try the settings I gave in my last post, that should be good for any PC sim.
 
What is hard to come to terms with is the harsh attitude which sometimes gets downright mean from some of them, towards Kaz and PD or even us. A few of the old hands have left because the neighborhood has gone downhill, and you almost have to watch your back around here if you're a fan. A few like Griffith500 who have been trying to moderate the atmosphere in here, have evidently realized that it's like asking a flood to please stop rising and be so wet. Yeah, people will be humans, and we have flaws.

It's no more strange than the opposite, the people who think GT6 is a 10 of 10 and nothing could possibly be wrong with it. Extremists exist on both sides, and should be ignored.

It's unfortunate for you and others that enjoy the game that the negative population appears so much larger at this particular point in time, but it is largely a product of what the game has become. It's not like people are being negative because they flipped a coin and it came up tails, they believe they have legitimate concerns about the game. Those concerns exist because of design and marketing choices in GT6. A certain small percentage of the "negative" crowd are always going to be abusively negative, it's just that a small percentage of a large group is a reasonable amount of people still.

If you ignore the rabids on either side, the stereotypical mouthbreathing basement dwellers, it turns out most people are fairly rational. Some like GT6, warts and all. Some think it'll be OK once it gets it's additional features. Some think it'll be OK if it gets it's additional features. Some think it's still going downhill. All of which are reasonable and defensible positions, it's just that some are more popular based on the current state of the game and communication from PD.


And personally, every time that a date gets missed by PD I totally expect this place to devolve into name calling and such. It's cathartic, more than anything else. Consumers don't really have any contact with PD, so somewhere like this is the only place they can vent. It might be completely pointless, but I suspect it does make people feel better.

That's probably going to be true at the start of every month from now on as well, until Zahara/VGTs/Online features come out. Someone will start up a "It's been another MONTH, PD!" thread, and everyone will throw their two cents in because it feels good sometimes to not be rational, and just rage a bit. Stamp up and down, pull your hair and yell "FOR ****"S SAKE, PD!" Then carry on your merry way.
 
Possibly because for what seems to be a reasonable proportion of GT fans, GT is all they play. You're an exception, you've tried other stuff and don't like it and that's fine. But for a lot of people it seems like they play GT, they've only ever played GT and will only ever play GT. And they still think that they're qualified to state that GT is the best.

Sim fans on the other hand have almost certainly tried GT, along with a lot of other stuff. If someone is a general sim fan instead of a GT fan, they try everything in case it might be good. Some like it, some don't. I still play GT5P every so often, because it's a really well put together little game.

The difference in range of experience means that there cannot ever really be a meeting of minds, because many GT fans don't have the knowledge to talk meaningfully about simulators. And they have no desire to gain that knowledge, they've found what they enjoy and have no need to search through other games.

I'm sorry if that sounds derogatory, but as far as I can tell it's true. In order to be a great fan of GT6 you either have to be enthused by one of the few things that it does well, or under the impression that GT is as good as it gets in all areas.

It is all subjective, no game can be considered 'better' than another.
In the end it just comes down to personal preference.
 
It is all subjective, no game can be considered 'better' than another.
In the end it just comes down to personal preference.

I think when it comes to racing there are actually objective measures that can determine how good a racing game is.

For example how closely it represents various racing formula. For example PD has always used their dedication to realism & detail as part of their marketing strategy.

However the offline portion of GT5 & 6 doesn't represent any form of racing in the world. They are just arcade style challenges. "Get from the very back to the front in a set number of laps" is not racing. Racing requires equal competition and equal opportunity.

The very minimum requirement would be a set of rules defining the equipment (car, power, tires etc...) for all competitors and a qualification procedure to determine your starting position. The AI should also be competitive ( and in a game, preferably configurable to somewhat match the talents of the player)

Such a setup is not innovative but it reflects the reality of racing. This sort of game-play has pretty much defined all racing games I have ever played apart from some of the GT installments. The only difficult part of providing such a game is getting the AI right. Sadly GT's AI has always been bad, and this makes providing the very basics of a racing game impossible. Hence the chase the pigeon format, rubber banding & rolling starts.

So objectively the offline portion of GT5 & 6 has nothing whatsoever to do with racing, except for having some cars, some tracks, race suits & helmets. This makes it a particularly bad racing game in my opinion.
 
It is all subjective, no game can be considered 'better' than another.
In the end it just comes down to personal preference.

Demonstrably false.

Gran Turismo 6.
Gran Turismo 6 with added Course Maker. This changes nothing else, adds no bugs, and does not adversely affect any other part of the game.

One of these two is better than the other.

There's a lot of subjectivity to what makes a great game, but it's not all subjective. There tends to be general agreement on which games are good, which would seem to indicate that there are some objective characteristics that make games good. Humans are generally wired to enjoy certain things, and while that's not true for absolutely everybody (which is why there's not one perfect game for everybody), there are certainly games that generally appeal to a broader group of people than others.

That can be considered to be better, given that one of the reasons for making games is to make money. Another is to be enjoying for people, and something that is more broadly enjoyable can be considered better in that sense also.

If it was all subjective, game designers would just throw together whatever, call it a game and cross their fingers. I'm entirely sure that's not the case.
 
I think when it comes to racing there are actually objective measures that can determine how good a racing game is.

For example how closely it represents various racing formula. For example PD has always used their dedication to realism & detail as part of their marketing strategy.

However the offline portion of GT5 & 6 doesn't represent any form of racing in the world. They are just arcade style challenges. "Get from the very back to the front in a set number of laps" is not racing. Racing requires equal competition and equal opportunity.

The very minimum requirement would be a set of rules defining the equipment (car, power, tires etc...) for all competitors and a qualification procedure to determine your starting position. The AI should also be competitive ( and in a game, preferably configurable to somewhat match the talents of the player)

Such a setup is not innovative but it reflects the reality of racing. This sort of game-play has pretty much defined all racing games I have ever played apart from some of the GT installments. The only difficult part of providing such a game is getting the AI right. Sadly GT's AI has always been bad, and this makes providing the very basics of a racing game impossible. Hence the chase the pigeon format, rubber banding & rolling starts.

So objectively the offline portion of GT5 & 6 has nothing whatsoever to do with racing, except for having some cars, some tracks, race suits & helmets. This makes it a particularly bad racing game in my opinion.

It's still subjective though, you want a game that mimics real-life motorsport exactly, other people may not.


Demonstrably false.

Gran Turismo 6.
Gran Turismo 6 with added Course Maker. This changes nothing else, adds no bugs, and does not adversely affect any other part of the game.

One of these two is better than the other.

True, but obviously that's an artificial example, we're not comparing identical games with each other.

There's a lot of subjectivity to what makes a great game, but it's not all subjective. There tends to be general agreement on which games are good, which would seem to indicate that there are some objective characteristics that make games good. Humans are generally wired to enjoy certain things, and while that's not true for absolutely everybody (which is why there's not one perfect game for everybody), there are certainly games that generally appeal to a broader group of people than others.

That can be considered to be better, given that one of the reasons for making games is to make money. Another is to be enjoying for people, and something that is more broadly enjoyable can be considered better in that sense also.

You do seem to agree that 'better' has no objective meaning.
If the definition of 'better' is that it sells well, then GT can be considered one of the best. If it means to be enjoyable, then possibly equally so.

If it was all subjective, game designers would just throw together whatever, call it a game and cross their fingers. I'm entirely sure that's not the case.

Being subjective doesn't mean unquantifiable.
 
So I'd like to poke this fire a little bit....

Seeing now as how Project CARS will be releasing their game with seven new Audi vehicles, including production, GT, and LMP cars, I'm quite astounded...

I'm not astounded by the fact Audi has decided to join them, but by the fact that one of the LMP prototypes is the NEW 2014 R 18.... How is it that before the car has even been formally released to a massive PR (not the Sebring one but the one on the 25th) a game developer starting out can promise such things?

It also boggles my mind, as to how quickly they've modeled it. It's no shurinzakin or whatever PD fails at for 6 months... It will (PC) change the face I think for racing simulators.. They are the only ones I see progressing, rather than digressing such as Forza, and being stale like GT, EVEN WHEN ITS NOT OUT YET!!! They communicate like every game should. They sponsor blogs, even for other systems.

I'm just astounded by the news of this R18 spiel... It's really befuddled me..
 
So I'd like to poke this fire a little bit....

Seeing now as how Project CARS will be releasing their game with seven new Audi vehicles, including production, GT, and LMP cars, I'm quite astounded...

I'm not astounded by the fact Audi has decided to join them, but by the fact that one of the LMP prototypes is the NEW 2014 R 18.... How is it that before the car has even been formally released to a massive PR (not the Sebring one but the one on the 25th) a game developer starting out can promise such things?

It also boggles my mind, as to how quickly they've modeled it. It's no shurinzakin or whatever PD fails at for 6 months... It will (PC) change the face I think for racing simulators.. They are the only ones I see progressing, rather than digressing such as Forza, and being stale like GT, EVEN WHEN ITS NOT OUT YET!!! They communicate like every game should. They sponsor blogs, even for other systems.

I'm just astounded by the news of this R18 spiel... It's really befuddled me..
Forget the R18...

...90 IMSA GTO.

Seth-FanGirling.gif~c200
 
So I'd like to poke this fire a little bit....

Seeing now as how Project CARS will be releasing their game with seven new Audi vehicles, including production, GT, and LMP cars, I'm quite astounded...

I'm not astounded by the fact Audi has decided to join them, but by the fact that one of the LMP prototypes is the NEW 2014 R 18.... How is it that before the car has even been formally released to a massive PR (not the Sebring one but the one on the 25th) a game developer starting out can promise such things?

It also boggles my mind, as to how quickly they've modeled it. It's no shurinzakin or whatever PD fails at for 6 months... It will (PC) change the face I think for racing simulators.. They are the only ones I see progressing, rather than digressing such as Forza, and being stale like GT, EVEN WHEN ITS NOT OUT YET!!! They communicate like every game should. They sponsor blogs, even for other systems.

I'm just astounded by the news of this R18 spiel... It's really befuddled me..

It's not modeled yet and the reason they've got it is thanks mostly to a one man 'connection' that we members can't really divulge outside the project.
 
They`ve gone wrong in the amount of cars! If they kept it to only half or less the cars and would have concentrated on the basics of racing. But they just exploded into the thinking of quantity and the customers only want that. Not true!
They should have concentrated on the Prem vehicles and the tracks they have in the game. Brilliant. Leave all the other cars off the game and add here and now a new standard car as Premium. Vision GT is a great idea, but halffinished cars still ( interior ) and nothing to follow. I won`t need them next year anymore.
Then concentrate on the "REAL DRIVING SIMULATOR"
- real pitstop strategies, I know how to handle the car in the pits and find my spot!
- Qualifying sessions
- AI that earns the name AI
- longer race distances
- more multiplayer friendly, better adjustment for online playing and so on
-Why can I only have 3 setups for 1 car but 50 more tracks, where you always need to tweak a little here and there. I want to save as many setups I have diskspace left for each car and track
- more setup options, specially on the race cars..........haven`T found tire pressure and tire temp yet! one of the most specific things in racing to adjust the balance of your car.
- a real fuel usage calculator, something you can work with and not guess about it.
-Why can`T I adjsut the setting to each wheel? only front and rear?

So if they say REAL, then they should try to get there. And I haven`T been talking about the car sounds yet ( and I won`t ! )

So GT6 has made a big step forward in physics and the feel on the tarmac, but if you have a look at older games and upcoming games, GT6 is just a half hearted add on for GT5!

Still I love it and play it every day these days, but also every day I get the feeling of missing something more and more in GT6! Still I can not explain if I really should love GT6 or just put it way and let the dust do the rest on it! Somehow it is a Love/hate relationship with GT6, and it shouldn`T be like that!
 
They`ve gone wrong in the amount of cars! If they kept it to only half or less the cars and would have concentrated on the basics of racing. But they just exploded into the thinking of quantity and the customers only want that. Not true!
They should have concentrated on the Prem vehicles and the tracks they have in the game. Brilliant. Leave all the other cars off the game and add here and now a new standard car as Premium. Vision GT is a great idea, but halffinished cars still ( interior ) and nothing to follow. I won`t need them next year anymore.
Then concentrate on the "REAL DRIVING SIMULATOR"
- real pitstop strategies, I know how to handle the car in the pits and find my spot!
- Qualifying sessions
- AI that earns the name AI
- longer race distances
- more multiplayer friendly, better adjustment for online playing and so on
-Why can I only have 3 setups for 1 car but 50 more tracks, where you always need to tweak a little here and there. I want to save as many setups I have diskspace left for each car and track
- more setup options, specially on the race cars..........haven`T found tire pressure and tire temp yet! one of the most specific things in racing to adjust the balance of your car.
- a real fuel usage calculator, something you can work with and not guess about it.
-Why can`T I adjsut the setting to each wheel? only front and rear?

So if they say REAL, then they should try to get there. And I haven`T been talking about the car sounds yet ( and I won`t ! )

So GT6 has made a big step forward in physics and the feel on the tarmac, but if you have a look at older games and upcoming games, GT6 is just a half hearted add on for GT5!

Still I love it and play it every day these days, but also every day I get the feeling of missing something more and more in GT6! Still I can not explain if I really should love GT6 or just put it way and let the dust do the rest on it! Somehow it is a Love/hate relationship with GT6, and it shouldn`T be like that!

I fully agree with you and I would love to see all those points being realized in GT. These things are all the things I really want. But to be honest I am starting to realize that GT is not lacking these things because PD can't do them, GT is lacking them because PD doesn't want to do them. And then the question is whether GT is still the right game for me.
 
It's still subjective though, you want a game that mimics real-life motorsport exactly, other people may not.

That's sort of the point though.

Even if I accept your assertion that games are wholly subjective (and I'm not sure that I do), Gran Turismo is not just a game. It is also a simulator. It classes itself as one, and there's ample evidence both from the developers and within the game that it's trying to be a simulator.

Simulators CAN be judged objectively. There's an objective reality to compare them to, and better = more closely matched to that reality.


Maybe the game part of Gran Turismo is entirely subjective. It certainly seems to appeal to some but not others. But the simulation part is not subjective. If the physics are unrealistic it doesn't matter what the player thinks of them, unrealistic physics are objectively bad for a simulator. This extends also to things that are strongly related to the realism of the racing experience, such as race setup, damage, and flags/race rules.
 
Pardon me if I'm wrong but I feel as if GT having the 1200+ cars they do is the only thing holding them up. It allows people to drive the cars they might have in real life in the game and test them to the limits. Sometimes I'll whip out the Ford Taurus just to throw it around with my big wing on it (even though it doesn't IRL and isn't the same model at all) and I really enjoy it. However, that's not the only car I drive. Sometimes I drive the more expensive super cars and the LMP's and anything in between.

But if you take away this niche that only GT has, it would be like pulling a leg off of a tri-pod and they would fall horrible...

I don't want to see them pull a Forza Motorsports move became right there I would never buy it again, but I don't think it would help them out at all really.
 
Pardon me if I'm wrong but I feel as if GT having the 1200+ cars they do is the only thing holding them up. It allows people to drive the cars they might have in real life in the game and test them to the limits. Sometimes I'll whip out the Ford Taurus just to throw it around with my big wing on it (even though it doesn't IRL and isn't the same model at all) and I really enjoy it. However, that's not the only car I drive. Sometimes I drive the more expensive super cars and the LMP's and anything in between.

But if you take away this niche that only GT has, it would be like pulling a leg off of a tri-pod and they would fall horrible...

I don't want to see them pull a Forza Motorsports move became right there I would never buy it again, but I don't think it would help them out at all really.

But do you really need 10 version of 1 car model? I do not need 30 more Mazda MX5, I think it is 34 without the Racing models ! So if you cut down only those cars and instead of Standrad put the rest of the cars in Premium, would be a good start for one of the points. Putting them into the game just to be there and beeing able to say, hey, we have most of the cars as developer in a game no one else has, well, doesen`T sound like quality to me! Instead on concentrating on duplicates and standard cars, they should concentrate on the more "important" things, cause all this we have the most cars in the game won`T save the GT series for the future!
They should get actual licenses on some cars and racing series and concentrate on cars that sound like cars and not like a hoover!
Also, do you really think all those more than 1300 cars have "real specific" phsyics? GT Claims to be the Real Driving Simulator, don`T forget that!
 
But do you really need 10 version of 1 car model? I do not need 30 more Mazda MX5, I think it is 34 without the Racing models ! So if you cut down only those cars and instead of Standrad put the rest of the cars in Premium, would be a good start for one of the points. Putting them into the game just to be there and beeing able to say, hey, we have most of the cars as developer in a game no one else has, well, doesen`T sound like quality to me! Instead on concentrating on duplicates and standard cars, they should concentrate on the more "important" things, cause all this we have the most cars in the game won`T save the GT series for the future!
They should get actual licenses on some cars and racing series and concentrate on cars that sound like cars and not like a hoover!
Also, do you really think all those more than 1300 cars have "real specific" phsyics? GT Claims to be the Real Driving Simulator, don`T forget that!

Yes I agree they are inflating the count by that, but I would like to have all the year/engine/chassis modeled maybe under a slider like they have the paint chips.

But what's the problem then if it's just a number... Does it really affect you that much?
 
I`d love to have 2000 cars, but the thing is, as long as the rest of the game is still not what it could be I do not need more cars or that amount of cars.
So I do not say, the idea of a big car pack is bad, but 1st they should do their homework on the points I have mentioned and all thos other things people post ( of course you can not satisfiy everybody, I know that ). Also some of the Standard models look so rubbish, which is just no more up to date these days.
But still my opinion is, spend less time in so much cars instead concentrate on AI, sound..............and so on!
And I do have the feel, when they 1st said for GT5, we will have 1200 cars, they noticed it was too much in the end, but for GT6 I have the feel, they just said, well we have them, let`S just bring the cars from 5 to 6 and add a few more so the customoers will be satisfied, don`t take it personal, but like you. You say hurray 1200 cars. As I do not want to get blinded by the sheer eye candy and number of cars.
Like I said, I think this system won`T work in the future further more maybe for a GT7.
 
I`d love to have 2000 cars, but the thing is, as long as the rest of the game is still not what it could be I do not need more cars or that amount of cars.
So I do not say, the idea of a big car pack is bad, but 1st they should do their homework on the points I have mentioned and all thos other things people post ( of course you can not satisfiy everybody, I know that ). Also some of the Standard models look so rubbish, which is just no more up to date these days.
But still my opinion is, spend less time in so much cars instead concentrate on AI, sound..............and so on!
And I do have the feel, when they 1st said for GT5, we will have 1200 cars, they noticed it was too much in the end, but for GT6 I have the feel, they just said, well we have them, let`S just bring the cars from 5 to 6 and add a few more so the customoers will be satisfied, don`t take it personal, but like you. You say hurray 1200 cars. As I do not want to get blinded by the sheer eye candy and number of cars.
Like I said, I think this system won`T work in the future further more maybe for a GT7.
I know you will try to preach this as it's a very good idea, but everyone from GTP shares these ideas you want to be out in action...

I have my cars I want added to the game which aren't yet here. You probably want yours which aren't yet here. And everyone else does.

What is it that makes PD add those cars? Is it because they are most wanted, or is it because they are the most wanted thing from the players?

Then we ask who are the players. Is it the real hardcore players who dedicate a lot of time to this? Or is it the average "casual" player who sparingly gets on the game? Then we see how many are in between and that determines our market.

It's like this for instance. I like the Audi R 8 in real life. I like the V10 they have. But I don't like so much the MMI for the R8. A lot of people like the R8, and also like the MMI, more people in fact like it than the amount who oppose it.

So, do they change it and make consumers mad? Or do they find a middle ground? Sometimes the middle ground doesn't work, and as we can see results into threads like these.

I am not defending PD at all, but calling them out rather. They do try to please people but it is more along the lines of those who play more casually, who don't care much other than the car they drive. These people I believe, should play Need for Speed and begone. Because if they are not helping, then they are just dead weight. But dead weight to PD is more money, so why should PD eliminate and not listen to the dead weight?
 
Pardon me if I'm wrong but I feel as if GT having the 1200+ cars they do is the only thing holding them up. It allows people to drive the cars they might have in real life in the game and test them to the limits. Sometimes I'll whip out the Ford Taurus just to throw it around with my big wing on it (even though it doesn't IRL and isn't the same model at all) and I really enjoy it. However, that's not the only car I drive. Sometimes I drive the more expensive super cars and the LMP's and anything in between.

But if you take away this niche that only GT has, it would be like pulling a leg off of a tri-pod and they would fall horrible...

I don't want to see them pull a Forza Motorsports move became right there I would never buy it again, but I don't think it would help them out at all really.

Even so, that leg is slowly slipping out, so to speak.

They have a large amount of cars, but they're aging faster than PD is adding to them. The vast majority of the cars in GT6 are from 2005 and earlier. 90's sports cars were relatively common at the time, but now the earliest ones are almost 25 years old. They're becoming collectors cars. And a lot of the "everyday" cars that were common in 2005 simply aren't on the road much any more in 2014. They've been run into the ground and replaced with something newer.

For example, I'm looking at getting an RX8 soon, probably a series 2 because they have a substantial number of upgrades over the series 1 and aren't much more expensive. "Great" I thought, "I'll take one for a spin in GT6, that'll be fun".

There is no Series 2 RX8 in GT6. There is one premium series 1, and some standards.

So I end up buying the series 1 in game and twiddle around with the suspension and engine a bit to try and replicate the s2, but it's not what I wanted.

And this is common if you want to drive a relatively modern car, say from the last ten years. If you want 90's/early 00's sports cars, you're well accommodated for. But for modern stuff you're really not much better served with GT6 than any other game with a car list a fraction of the size.
 
Yes I agree they are inflating the count by that, but I would like to have all the year/engine/chassis modeled maybe under a slider like they have the paint chips.

But what's the problem then if it's just a number... Does it really affect you that much?

The problem is as Imari says, they're relying on pure numbers to sell the carlist rather than actually working to update it with cars people want or cars that are relevant today. Slap 1200 on the box and they assume people will think there must be at least a few hundred cars they want in that. It's only when they play it they realise how lacking it is in many areas.

Basically they're hiding behind the number.
 
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