Where do you draw the line for "self defense"?

[Lee]

In Britain we don't have the "Luxury" of owning our own guns.

The way I see it is that your passed the line if you continue to inflict "self defense" after you have complete control of the situation, if the attacker continues to come back at you, then use harder methods.

There was a case I think last year where a teenage robber went into a farm and was looking around when the farmer shot him with a shotgun, the teen died and the farmer went to jail. I guess its kind of being a vigelante but the must of been other methods to stop him other than blasting him away with a shotgun surely?

Thats the way I see it.

 

[Young_Warrior]

If you really want a gun in the UK you can buy a replica and get it converted but I doubt it will work after the first bullet.

 

[Lee]

I think its good though that we can't own our own guns, if you need to sort out anythin, either negotiate or speak to my fist.

 

[James2097]

Blake, we can thank our more recent immigrants for all the knife and machette attacks in Melbourne...

Most Aussies don't feel too threatening (the pink t-shirt wearing "metrosexuals" could be a bit threatening in a different way however ). Whats the feel on the street round your parts? Totally harmless or do you ever see anything untoward?

 

[Famine]

To me, self-defence is the act of defending yourself. Sounds obvious, doesn't it?

Defending yourself against an armed attack requires you to put the attacker in a position where he can no longer threaten you with the weapon. This is either taking the weapon from him, or taking him from the weapon. If he's armed with a gun, he can kill you as long as he has the gun and is conscious - so the only logical course of action is two to the chest and one to the head. Until he's not able to operate that weapon, you are not safe - shooting him in the brachial nerve won't do much either, unless you then shoot him in the other one. How good a shot are you? In any case, if you use a gun to threaten someone else, you're out of rights.

Anything else simply requires you to prevent the attacker from harming you. Unconscious people are rubbish at attacking people, but you may prefer to simply restrain them until the emergency services arrive, rather than knocking them out.

 

[Lee]

Unconscious people are rubbish at attacking people

Hee hee thats going in my sig..

 

[Swift]

I know that evryone should have aplan to escape from the house and such but isnt this a bit excessive.

Atleast I prefer your laws on self defense and not being tried for manslaughter but with guns its going a bit far.

Well, I think if you're being threatened by someone with a gun that the only thing that's going to intimidate them is another gun. I have a few very nice samurai swords. However, if the intruder has a shotgun, I doubt that they will be very afraid of me coming with my sword.

The very concept of self defense means that you stop your asailant. As Famine pointed out quite well.

Until he's not able to operate that weapon, you are not safe

So if it requires me to shoot you to defend myself and my family. You're as dead as fried chicken(Sam Jackson, Pulp Fiction)

 

[Grand Prix]

Well, I think if you're being threatened by someone with a gun that the only thing that's going to intimidate them is another gun. I have a few very nice samurai swords. However, if the intruder has a shotgun, I doubt that they will be very afraid of me coming with my sword.

The very concept of self defense means that you stop your asailant. As Famine pointed out quite well.



So if it requires me to shoot you to defend myself and my family. You're as dead as fried chicken(Sam Jackson, Pulp Fiction)

Cool. Swords. I haven't thought of them. My brother has an old-style long sword. Using a sword would be quite humillating to the attacker.


But, one of my favourite quotes is:

"Those who live by the sword, get shot by those who don't."

 

[FoolKiller]

Wow, and my wife thinks I'm paranoid for keeping an old golf iron next to my bed. She won't allow a gun in the house and I agree since we want to have kids one day. If I never intended to have kids I would probably keep a small gun, but my dad thought his gun was safely put away and I found it. I was smart enough not to point it at anyone, which is probably the only reason nothing ever came of the situation. As long as I plan on having kids I will have no gun.

I figure something like a baseball bat or golf club will be just as effective since I would need to surprise the intruder in order to use the gun as well as a blunt object. I would prefer an unsharpened sword so that it has a more psychological effect without being very deadly, but once again my wife thinks I am being stupid.

I see nothing wrong with gun ownership but I would prefer people have training of some sort to obtain one.

As far as self defense, I will give a full swing to anyone creeping around in my house. My camping knife is also kept in the bedroom and I would probably have that handy just in case. I am not against killing a man that expresses an intent to harm me or any of my family, but if it is a simple case of being an intruder I'll surprise him with a midsection or back hit to let him know I am serious. If his next move is anywhere other than the way out he will find out what a nine iron to the face feels like.

 

[Young_Warrior]

If your a ordinary person and some man breaks in he wont be looking to kill you but just take your valuables. Hell let him have them.

But then if you get out your gun this robber will now want to shoot you before you can shoot him as hes thinkin damn is he gonna shoot me.

Also you guys talk as if its easy to just shoot omeone let me tell you its not. Have you even ever stabbed someone or witnessed someone being stabbed? Its not nice and something you would much rather not do. If a attacker comes into your home and you notice him before hes standing infront f you with his weapon to your head then will dial for the police grab the kids and either lock yourself in a room and tell the robber he can have what he wants or just get the hell ut through a window or something.

A robber is prepared for confronation you will be unsuspecting.

 

[sicbeing]

Swords won't do anything, and I doubt half the people who own a sword can actually use one.

I live in FL myself. I have never really been afraid of someone randomly breaking into my house. Most people I know who keep shotguns/bats/etc near their beds, loaded, is because they know they have a higher chance of something specifically happening. Such as someone I know makes almost 150,000 a year and has nice stuff. I can see him being paranoid about his wife and 5 kids.

I also know other people who owe others money, or who use/used some drugs, who are afriad of bad stuff happening to them while they sleep.

I myself have no real reason to be afraid of anything more specific than a random act of crime, and I don't have any weapons near me when I sleep, ever. Usually a simple home alarm system works, or even just hanging the sign in your yard when you don't even own a house alarm

 

[Swift]

If your a ordinary person and some man breaks in he wont be looking to kill you but just take your valuables. Hell let him have them.

But then if you get out your gun this robber will now want to shoot you before you can shoot him as hes thinkin damn is he gonna shoot me.

Also you guys talk as if its easy to just shoot omeone let me tell you its not. Have you even ever stabbed someone or witnessed someone being stabbed? Its not nice and something you would much rather not do. If a attacker comes into your home and you notice him before hes standing infront f you with his weapon to your head then will dial for the police grab the kids and either lock yourself in a room and tell the robber he can have what he wants or just get the hell ut through a window or something.

A robber is prepared for confronation you will be unsuspecting.

Ok, so your saying just let the person come into your home take all of your stuff just because they came in. That sounds very weak to me.

If someone comes into my house with the intention to steal my belongings, they have given up all of their rights. Period. So they deserve whatever it is they get for coming into my home.

Granted, shooting or stabbing someone isn't an enjoyable act. But it's better then seeing MY family harmed.

 

[sicbeing]

Ok, so your saying just let the person come into your home take all of your stuff just because they came in. That sounds very weak to me.

If someone comes into my house with the intention to steal my belongings, they have given up all of their rights. Period. So they deserve whatever it is they get for coming into my home.

Granted, shooting or stabbing someone isn't an enjoyable act. But it's better then seeing MY family harmed.

So maybe mace, a tazer gun, or poisonous darts would be more appropriate

 

[Swift]

So maybe mace, a tazer gun, or poisonous darts would be more appropriate

A Tazer would be cool. But it doesn't last long enough in a lot of cases. It's great for stopping them temporarily, but probably not till the cops come.

 

[Young_Warrior]

You guys keep forgetting the fact that this is a desperate criminal. Swift what I said in my last post is what I would do if I was a ordinary person.However im not a ordinary person but I know how these criminals work. Let them have your stuff. I think your family would much rather lose some electronic gizmos than a father/husband/son.

There are criminals out there who will gut you like a fish if you even as much as say the wrong thing to them.

Mace only works on the weak so yes a powerful stung gun maybe but you would have to come into close range with a potentially deadly attacker.

Also you wont know a thing about what the attacker is cabaple of. Maybe hes as strong as you or a complete nut case. There are men who can carry on fighting even after they have been stabbed and some men can withstand mace with eas wilst others squal like pigs.

Just a example of how unpredictable people can be a man got stabbed to death on a public bus with 26 cameras and several witness just for telling a youth to stop throwing his chips/fries around.

 

[Joey D]

A Tazer won't stop everyone dead in their tracks, a .45 will. And I wouldn't find it enjoyable killing someone who was in my home, but I certianly wouldn't feel bad or have any remorse. I guess I'm just cold hearted.

 

[Young_Warrior]

What if he lets loose before you after he sees your gun or lets loose on you after you sunk three in his chest but hes wearing a bullet proof.

 

[Joey D]

If he shoots me first then I f'ed up majorly.

If he has a bullet proof vest I feel no sadness by sinking a .45 round into the intruders skull. Trust me a shot by a .45ACP at 10ft will make quite a mess of you head.

 

[Danoff]

I own a pistol solely for self-defense. The rounds that are loaded in it at the moment are for self-defense as well (meaning they're designed not to travel far, but instead, do lots of damage on impact and impart lots of momentum).

Here's my take on the situation.

If someone breaks into my home, I will assume that they will do me harm. You don't have to be armed with a gun or a baseball bat to kill someone, it can be done with your bear hands.

I'm not going to risk my life trying to wrestle with a burgler so that she doesn't get killed. I'm going to put her down if she comes anywhere near me.

If she has a gun, I'll shoot her until she's dead. Like Famine said, a person can operate a gun until they're completely unconcious.

Here's the scenario.

I'm at home asleep and I hear a window break, or a door bust open, or anything that sounds like someone breaking in.

1) I grab the gun and get behind the bed (aim it at the door).
2) Yell "I have a gun, leave now."
3) If the burgler breaks into the bedroom, I shoot her until she falls.
4) If I see a gun in the burgler's hand, I shoot her until I'm certain she's dead.


It's pretty freaking distracting when I use "her" and "she" in this scenario isn't it?

 

[FoolKiller]

Most people I know who keep shotguns/bats/etc near their beds, loaded, is because they know they have a higher chance of something specifically happening. Such as someone I know makes almost 150,000 a year and has nice stuff. I can see him being paranoid about his wife and 5 kids.

(stuff)

I myself have no real reason to be afraid of anything more specific than a random act of crime, and I don't have any weapons near me when I sleep, ever. Usually a simple home alarm system works, or even just hanging the sign in your yard when you don't even own a house alarm

Sex offender registry shows a guy lives nearby. Sufficient to make me paranoid. I don't own the house I live in so I can't install an alarm system. I might not be able to stop someone from harming my family but I sure as hell will try.

Besides the point of the thread is self defense, so the burglary thing has just become a tangent. Whether you feel secure or not is not as important as, what if it the situation did arise? What would you do then?

Self defense does not even have to be in the home. If it is taking my wallet at gun point then I would let him have it. I rarely carry cash and my cards can be cancelled before he gets to use them. If he is in my house and I can surprise him I am getting him out one way or another. If someone tries to mug me and it becomes obvious they intend to harm me or my family then there is no doubt I will fight back. I can die standing or fighting. I choose fighting.

 

[Swift]

YW, there are really only two types of theives. the Smart and the desperate. The smart ones you'll probably never see. As they will go into your house when you're not home. The desperate obviously don't care and are almost certainly illprepared.

So when I go after an intruder with a shotgun, they are probably the latter and not ready for it.

Again, I do not like the thought of killing or maming anyone. But when a person is in my home illegally, he is putting my family at risk. I simply won't have that.

 

[Young_Warrior]

lol the only protection you need for a sex offender is not a gun but some condoms. Usually sex offenders are big tarts anyway.

 

[FoolKiller]

It's pretty freaking distracting when I use "her" and "she" in this scenario isn't it?

Equal opportunity vigilante. 👍


EDIT:

lol the only protection you need for a sex offender is not a gun but some condoms. Usually sex offenders are big tarts anyway.

Please, tell me you aren't seriously this insensitive? Perhaps you missed the story where the sex offender broke into the house, killed the parents, took the kids, and then police found the dead boy's body (abused), and when they captured the man he wouldn't tell them where the girl was or if she was alive.

Nothing to fear there, huh? Yes, that is enough to make me think a weapon handily available would be a good idea.

 

[James2097]

@Danoff

I too would be very scared if someone literally strangled me with their

bear hands.

Crazy mutants trying to kill us all.

 

[Swift]

Swords won't do anything, and I doubt half the people who own a sword can actually use one.

Just wanted to comment on this. It takes as much skill to use a gun as it does to use a sword. Unless we're talking shotgun.

I do know how to use the swords I have. I'm not samurai, but I can do some pretty efficient damage.

 

[Danoff]

@Danoff

I too would be very scared if someone literally strangled me with their

Crazy mutants trying to kill us all.

Oops.

 

[ExigeEvan]

Please, tell me you aren't seriously this insensitive?

He is.

There are a few alternatives to guns that you could use.

Crossbows are still legal, or you could even fire solid balls from a paintball gun.

 

[FoolKiller]

fire solid balls from a paintball gun.

Do they make those specifically for that purpose?

Purely a self defense question. Yeah, that's it. Self defense.

 

[ExigeEvan]

Do they make those specifically for that purpose?

Purely a self defense question. Yeah, that's it. Self defense.

Well put it like this, me and my mates wanetd to go paintballing but the main problem was the cost of Paint balls. So we e-mailed the place asking if we could bring our own but they said we couldn't because if frozen they can be, and their words, 'deadly'.

 

[smellysocks12]

Most people I know who keep shotguns/bats/etc near their beds, loaded, is because they know they have a higher chance of something specifically happening. Such as someone I know makes almost 150,000 a year and has nice stuff. I can see him being paranoid about his wife and 5 kids.

And guess what.



One night he'll wake up hearing someone stumbling around in the dark in the living room. Your buddy wakes up, grabs his shotgun, and suddenly the person in the kitchen jumps in front of him while he's on the way down. In the panic he pulls the trigger, and then when he switches on the lights he realizes that he just blew one of his own children's head off. Nice self defense.


Scenarios like that happen too often in the USA.


Probably more than someone actually being able to defend himself from a burglar.