Where does Gran Turismo Sport stand in the order of racing titles? (on realism and difficulty).

[bil coz]

Are you serious? I'm laughing my arse off. Bro you should look at whom is posting. Yes your correct,your starting to post drivel.

It's really just another form of intra-series pissing matches, tbh. Instead of it being rooted in consoles and Forza and GT, it's rooted in tribalism via different sim racing series, all trying to one up one another via making their games harder and much more difficult in a chase for 'realism'.



lol so what kind of argument is this.

View attachment 863003

What an elegant and well articulated reply.

I'm the party star
I'm popular


I explained why he got the Ayrton Senna bit completely backwards yet he didn't get it. Not gonna repeat myself now am I.

 

[Silver Arrows]

I'm the party star
I'm popular


I explained why he got the Ayrton Senna bit completely backwards yet he didn't get it. Not gonna repeat myself now am I.

The fact that you are trying to more or less shout down someone who has the experience in driving real life vehicles that Scaff has, all because he uses TCS in *one* game, and also outlined his (frankly, well reasoned) opinions for realism in sims, really just screams immaturity. The fact that you have a history of acting like an asshat and going down to ad hominem attacks against people, playing the man as so put further upthread, really seals that deal, as it were.

 

[bil coz]

The fact that you are trying to more or less shout down someone who has the experience in driving vehicles that Scaff has, all because he uses TCS in *one* game, and also outlined his (frankly, well reasoned) opinions for realism in sims, really just screams immaturity. The fact that you have a history of acting like an asshat and going down to ad hominem attacks against people, playing the man as so put further upthread, really seals that deal, as it were.

Well he also drives rather poorly but I tried to avoid that matter.
But do tell me how you gonna judge sim models if you don't know what happens at the limit because you play with TCS on?
Apparently you bunch are looking up to this guy cause hes some real life racer.. I wonder what kind of cars really.

I understand that your feelings have been hurt so I won't name drop anybody here cause it wouldn't be nice for them, but I know for a fact that professional racers mostly **** all over PCars. And DR is not even meant to be in the discussion, Codemasters does video games for gamers, not for people who want to drive.

 

[Darla Starch]

View attachment 863003

Obligatory when talking about sim racing:

 

[Scaff]

Well he also drives rather poorly but I tried to avoid that matter.
But do tell me how you gonna judge sim models if you don't know what happens at the limit because you play with TCS on?
Apparently you bunch are looking up to this guy cause hes some real life racer.. I wonder what kind of cars really.

I understand that your feelings have been hurt so I won't name drop anybody here cause it wouldn't be nice for them, but I know for a fact that professional racers mostly **** all over PCars. And DR is not even meant to be in the discussion, Codemasters does video games for gamers, not for people who want to drive.

Professional rally driver using Dirt Rally 2.0



Opps that's not supposed to exist.

The car Senna help design, yep Traction Control., and yes you did open that door and have been attempting to backtrack ever since.

It's also rather odd to assume everything from one video I posted, sample size of 1 don't make for good datasets.

Oh and a citation for your fact would be good, I assume you have a set of poll results to support it?

 

[Groundfish]

Well he also drives rather poorly but I tried to avoid that matter.
But do tell me how you gonna judge sim models if you don't know what happens at the limit because you play with TCS on?
Apparently you bunch are looking up to this guy cause hes some real life racer.. I wonder what kind of cars really.

I understand that your feelings have been hurt so I won't name drop anybody here cause it wouldn't be nice for them, but I know for a fact that professional racers mostly **** all over PCars. And DR is not even meant to be in the discussion, Codemasters does video games for gamers, not for people who want to drive.

When I want to drive I hop in a car. When I get chance I grab my helmet and get in a kart on a track adhering to the safety rules.
When I want to have fun losing myself in a video game I do that.
At the end of the day whether you drop a dollar in s machine at a theme park or spend 7500 on Scott Speeds retired iracing sim rig they are all video games.
Whats funny to me re realism is seeing some pasty faced pc racer trying to play a video game on a tiny computer monitor.
Not very immersive imo.
Imo related to realism is the sense of does the game draw you in and make you lose yourself while playing it.

 

[killerjimbag]

Well he also drives rather poorly but I tried to avoid that matter.
But do tell me how you gonna judge sim models if you don't know what happens at the limit because you play with TCS on?
Apparently you bunch are looking up to this guy cause hes some real life racer.. I wonder what kind of cars really.

I understand that your feelings have been hurt so I won't name drop anybody here cause it wouldn't be nice for them, but I know for a fact that professional racers mostly **** all over PCars. And DR is not even meant to be in the discussion, Codemasters does video games for gamers, not for people who want to drive.

Yes perhaps you would like to drive the car in my profile. I would bet you wouldn't find first gear let alone have the mental capacity to stop it. That being said,their video games. 🤬 video games. What the hell does it matter what you use. ABS, TC, DRS. Who the hell cares. Pro drivers sure as hell aren't using GT to practice anything.

 

[Silver Arrows]

But do tell me how you gonna judge sim models if you don't know what happens at the limit because you play with TCS on?

As mentioned before, are drivers who race in series where TCS is turned on for their vehicles, which include as of this moment GT3/4 vehicles, LMP1/2, and 90's F1 drivers are not allowed to talk about sim models because they race with TCS? This is some real no true Scotsman'ing you're doing.

Apparently you bunch are looking up to this guy cause hes some real life racer.. I wonder what kind of cars really.

Who am I going to believe? A guy who, in his own words, has:

...over twenty years in the motor industry, much of it in training, with experience in training vehicle dynamics for a range of OEMs, as well as countless hours of track and proving ground time for both road and race-spec cars (something the staff here at GTP are all well aware of)...

Or some random jabroni on a sim racing forum who is more or less considering himself a sim racing god because he doesn't use TCS at all? And also a guy who, from examples that I've given up thread, acts like a dick at the best of times, starting disingenuous arguments and never owning up to his role in said arguments?

I understand that your feelings have been hurt so I won't name drop anybody here cause it wouldn't be nice for them, but I know for a fact that professional racers mostly **** all over PCars. And DR is not even meant to be in the discussion, Codemasters does video games for gamers, not for people who want to drive.

Prove it. As the saying goes, put up or shut up. Then again, knowing how you argue, I have a feeling you'll just be shutting up when challenged, and putting up yet another unrelated talking point with personal insults to boot.

At the end of the day whether you drop a dollar in s machine at a theme park or spend 7500 on Scott Speeds retired iracing sim rig they are all video games.

If I pay for Scott Speed's iRacing sim rig, do I have to argue to remove the suspension from his account?

 

[MaxAttack]

Well he also drives rather poorly but I tried to avoid that matter.
But do tell me how you gonna judge sim models if you don't know what happens at the limit because you play with TCS on?
Apparently you bunch are looking up to this guy cause hes some real life racer.. I wonder what kind of cars really.

I understand that your feelings have been hurt so I won't name drop anybody here cause it wouldn't be nice for them, but I know for a fact that professional racers mostly **** all over PCars. And DR is not even meant to be in the discussion, Codemasters does video games for gamers, not for people who want to drive.

I feel like I can boil most of your posts here down to something like;

"I can drift and consider it really skillful so if anyone doesn't do/enjoy it/want to keep their car in a straight line they clearly just suck at driving too much to get on my level"

 

[killerjimbag]

I feel like I can boil most of your posts here down to something like;

"I can drift and consider it really skillful so if anyone doesn't do/enjoy it/want to keep their car in a straight line they clearly just suck at driving too much to get on my level"

Oh he's a drifter. Oh boy oh boy. Could I get myself in a bunch of trouble real quick.

 

[Nuschel01]

Probably more of a powerslider.. needs 1000hp to get his car sideways but I bet is unable to drift a stock AE86

 

[dragster666]

wait this argument started off because a guy used tcs? jeez i use factory abs and tcs in ac all of the time when i'm in the mood i turn them off.
On the other side sims actually got me interested in motorsport now i do watch gt3 and gt4 races sometimes even nascar when i have the time.
pc2 while its there it needs a lot of improvement forza's physics feel really slidy like the car is driving on ice gt sport's physics are actually good but they can feel floaty at times at least to me. The player can improve his driving skills even if he plays simcade racers. While Sims like ac,rf2 and iracing are on point they are very costly for an average person. For an example driving a sim without an steering wheel is like a anti cult in any simracing fandom. I'm quite surprised that mouse steering is forgiven. In short words simcade racers can get you amazing driving skills and even make you competitive on the track. I switched to ac because of all of the pc mods there's literally ever car for it.

 

[GTV0819]

What's the problem with that? If you look a bit closer it's not really engaging that much so I suppose he's not using it to just compensate for awful throttle control and wanting the ability to just floor it and be rescued by TCS.

I still don't understand why having this feature active is such a big deal for some people.

 

[Groundfish]

Every pc sim elitist when they see the word sim or realism:

“As the worlds foremost authority on Motorsport and computer simulation software I feel it incumbent upon me to simultaneously inform you all that in real life after I finished designing engines for Ferrari I moved on to f1 chassis design for Lotus which led me to finding the limitations inherent in the Pirelli racing tyre line so I was forced to redo all the tyre compound formulations to my specification as well as design new quality control protocols; this led me to also having to do the track testing and race driving as well to find the limits of my design. When I was testing the limits of all these aspects of cars over a storied 90 year career I refused cash payments and worked in anonymity. I was personally responsible for all major advancements in vehicle technology over the last 90 years while working under various surnames. I’ve been involved in anonymity in the background or driving in over 4500 victories worldwide in everything from go kart to rally to f1 (not NASCAR that’s beneath me)
But I am here on this forum because I feel an irresistible urge to absolutely dismantle anyone else in the world who attempts to have any fun in any driving game online or otherwise and I will apply my full intellect upon anyone who dares express a personal opinion about this subject which I know absolutely everything about. All you other people out there can collectively piss off you are console using lowlife untalented non humans and nothing you say is of value to me. I have done it all, I know it all, and I don’t wanna hear about what you think you know.”

 

[ScottPuss20]

to each his own but the point is that great sims are great for drifting. Even IRacing in which drifting is forbidden is good at it.
PCars joke of a physics system is exposed when you see people trying to drift. They had to release a special mx5 to make it possible and it was still laughable.

Haha yeah it's hilarious! It's such a terrible physics model isn't it? It only simulates tyre temperature, track temperature, dry line in the wet, fuel load, dirty air, weather conditions, snow and ground effect... Drifting is not impossible in Project Cars 2, just problematic. How can drifting be a viable yardstick of comparison with other sim racers?

 

[bil coz]

Haha yeah it's hilarious! It's such a terrible physics model isn't it? It only simulates tyre temperature, track temperature, dry line in the wet, fuel load, dirty air, weather conditions, snow and ground effect... Drifting is not impossible in Project Cars 2, just problematic. How can drifting be a viable yardstick of comparison with other sim racers?

What's the point in simulating all these details if the fundamentals are all wrong?

They're just selling points for people who don't know any better.

the drifting test is indeed an excellent benchmark to see if the physics are anchored in reality and take care of themselves or are completely fabricated crap that you need a special car to drift with while still looking horrendous.

I feel like I can boil most of your posts here down to something like;

"I can drift and consider it really skillful so if anyone doesn't do/enjoy it/want to keep their car in a straight line they clearly just suck at driving too much to get on my level"

That is absolutely false well done.
All that I said still stands. He can't know how the car behaves at the limit because TCS doesn't let it get there, so he can't decide which game has the superior physics. Nothing to do with his skills or my skills.
YOU NEED FULL CONTROL OVER THE CAR TO JUDGE THE PHYSICS. But keep patting yourselves on the back.
By the way in another video he compares rain in PCars and in GT. He's using the wrong mode in GT in which the grip is almost unaffected.
This just confirms that he does not know what he's doing.

 

[Silver Arrows]

All that I said still stands. He can't know how the car behaves at the limit because TCS doesn't let it get there, so he can't decide which game has the superior physics. Nothing to do with his skills or my skills.

Lets read Scaff's post again:

...the simple answer is I don't always run it, I run it depending on the car in question and how I feel on the day. With titles that have a better physics engine than GTS I always run the configuration that the real car/series allows, as that's what I am personally after in a title.

Again, who am I to believe? You, or him? I'm certainly more inclined to believe him, considering not only does he have the experience to discern between different games' handling models (As he mentioned up thread, which started this whole pathetic slap fight in the first place!) but that he does stay truthful to what the vehicle or series runs in terms of aids, which once again, is a good chunk of sports cars, and classic F1 cars in the 90's.

By the way in another video he compares rain in PCars and in GT. He's using the wrong mode in GT in which the grip is almost unaffected.
This just confirms that he does not know what he's doing.

Once again: put up or shut up. Do you know what you're doing? Because you're not doing a whole lot of proving him wrong. Instead, just yelling down at him saying that he's wrong, or that he doesn't know what he's doing. Again, why should I believe you?

 

[dragster666]

Bringing an actual answer to this thread GT sport does stand up good to other racing games its on par with pc2 if not even better. A starting point for a sim would be r3e (raceroom) for now gt sport is maybe on a gtr 2 level? that games physics still rock to this day!

 

[Scaff]

That is absolutely false well done.
All that I said still stands. He can't know how the car behaves at the limit because TCS doesn't let it get there, so he can't decide which game has the superior physics. Nothing to do with his skills or my skills.

Once again missing the fact that I have already said I don't always run it and you are still using a sample size of one.

YOU NEED FULL CONTROL OVER THE CAR TO JUDGE THE PHYSICS. But keep patting yourselves on the back.
By the way in another video he compares rain in PCars and in GT. He's using the wrong mode in GT in which the grip is almost unaffected.
This just confirms that he does not know what he's doing.

100% wrong, the GTS footage was taken from a private online lobby with the track grip set to real. Repeating that on the YouTube comments doesn't make it true either.

It's quite easy to tell as well, as an online qualy session has the grid position on the top left of the screen, while time trial has the lap count. Here's the video in question so everyone can clearly see you are talking nonsense. Not to mention that I also say it's being tested online with grip reduction set to real at 2.07, so you quite clearly didn't even watch it.



Oh and if you want to talk about me, at least have to common courtesy to tag me.

BTW: YouTube also let's me see your deleted comments, it seems you have an issue with how many views I get and how few dislikes I get, Seriously quite petty stuff.

What's the point in simulating all these details if the fundamentals are all wrong?

The fundamentals are not all wrong.

They're just selling points for people who don't know any better.

Citation required

the drifting test is indeed an excellent benchmark to see if the physics are anchored in reality and take care of themselves or are completely fabricated crap that you need a special car to drift with while still looking horrendous.

Drifting is just one factor of a physics engine. It doesn't, however, cover all bases, I mean in terms of GTS it doesn't highlight the non-linear throttle, the messed up aero model, the issues with the damper model or the problems he tyre model has at lower speeds or with regard to how it reacts to flash heating.

Maybe it would help if you showed us some videos of you driving in PC2 to illustrate the issues, or maybe from some of the other titles you do rate?

 

[breeminator]

He can't know how the car behaves at the limit because TCS doesn't let it get there

Leaving aside the fact he's said he doesn't always use TCS, throttle induced loss of traction is only one element of a car being at the limit. In the current daily race A, for example, there is no throttle induced loss of traction at any point in the lap, even with a completely binary use of the throttle and TCS off. Yet you can still exceed the limits of the car, the best players are still doing the fastest times by achieving the most perfect speed at each point to be at the limit but not beyond it.

Even with cars and tracks where you can get throttle induced loss of traction, it's typically a fairly small part of what is differentiating players, most of the differentiation is the same elements as the current race A.

 

[Dunderbolt]

What're your guy's thoughts on the realism of Grand Prix Legends and Nascar Racing Season 2003 compared to GTSport?? I'm sure NR2003 is probably close to iRacing level as the core team that worked on NR2003 moved onto iRacing with the source code of that game, and Grand Prix Legends is basically a 1960's forumla 1 simulator. I dunno if that can be really compared to GT Sport though.

 

[killerjimbag]

What're your guy's thoughts on the realism of Grand Prix Legends and Nascar Racing Season 2003 compared to GTSport?? I'm sure NR2003 is probably close to iRacing level as the core team that worked on NR2003 moved onto iRacing with the source code of that game, and Grand Prix Legends is basically a 1960's forumla 1 simulator. I dunno if that can be really compared to GT Sport though.

Oh the good old days of racing. NR 2003 was awesome. So many mods. Legends was also great. I still say most games lack behind NR 2003,but that's my opinion.

 

[Mc_Yavel]

It stand right in the place it belong! In our PS4

It's a good balance of realism and accessibility.

 

[ScottPuss20]

What's the point in simulating all these details if the fundamentals are all wrong?

They're just selling points for people who don't know any better.

the drifting test is indeed an excellent benchmark to see if the physics are anchored in reality and take care of themselves or are completely fabricated crap that you need a special car to drift with while still looking horrendous.

No, that's not true.

 

[super_gt]

Here is @Scaff driving with ABS and traction control off, also catches quite sharp oversteer.



Great video and the VR looks gorgeous.

 

[zorrofox]

I love the game. The console sits next to the TV and takes up little to no space. GTS is easy to pick up and play. I personally will never get to find out the real life dynamic comparisons of the racing cars but I'll take PD's word for it. And yes, I do have ALL the other PS4 racers as well.

 

[Scaff]

Here is @Scaff driving with ABS and traction control off, also catches quite sharp oversteer.



Great video and the VR looks gorgeous.

Do you think that means I can join in now?

 

[super_gt]

Do you think that means I can join in now?

You are always welcome to join in.

 

[MrCrynox]

Do you think that means I can join in now?

No !

 

[sundaydriving]

Oh come on, everyone knows that GT is a "real" driving simulator as opposed to a fake driving simulator which wouldn't even exist. The rest is irrelevant.