White Privilege

[Earth]

What disturbs me the most is the amount, or percentage, of people who feel this does not exist at all.

When searching white privilege on youtube it seems many of the videos are about white privilege not existing, or there is videos of white people mocking the idea. Videos supporting the idea of white privilege are heavily downvoted.

This is very distressing to me.

I'll try to explain my feelings on the topic this way:

There are many types of privileges, being white (in certain areas) is one of them. This does not make people who are white evil or racist. It does not mean all white people receive 4 ounces of solid gold through the mail monthly. It does not mean white people do not have to work hard for anything, or get away with everything. It does not mean social or economic success is guaranteed to white people. Let me explain by giving examples of other types of privilege.

Being born a man gives you the privilege of pursuing a career like mechanic or engineer without people doubting your ability. Being born a man gives you the privilege of playing games online without being sexually harassed.

Being born a woman gives you the privilege of pursing a career like secretary or hair dresser without people doubting your sexual orientation. Being born a woman gives you the privilege of being more likely to win a child custody battle.

I think once people start to understand that white privilege is not the only type of privilege that exists, that can help them lower their guard when talking about it.

Being born white in a country that is predominantly white affords you white privilege. To deny that is to deny reality. To deny white privilege is to deny that any privilege exists at all. To deny white privilege is to say that humans treat and view each and every person equally, and nothing could be further from the truth. Its common behavior for people to favor their 'own', people who look like them, people from the same country, people with the same religion or political party. This is reality.

To white people who who still think white privilege does not exist, imagine this scenario: You are taken to a city in the middle of Africa and told to live there for 10 years. You are the only white person in the entire city. Do you honestly, sincerely believe you will be treated as an equal to the other black people there? That the majority black community will treat you completely fairly and equal while never favoring their own over you? When looking for a job, and its between you and 9 other black people, can you say with 100% certainty the black supervisor is going to see you as an equal and the color of your skin will not affect his decision? How will you feel when you go to the store to get a book for your child and they are all filled with images of black children? Maybe you are single. At work you see a nice looking black woman, you seem to mesh well, but she seems hesitant to be seen around you in front of her black family and friends. This is the land of black privilege, and you do not have it. Sucks doesnt it? To not really know just how much your being screwed over just because of the color of your skin.

I have plenty of personal experiences. I'll start with an example of me being racist to a black man I had met recently. We spoke for a few minutes and he was articulate, so I complemented him on it. I only just realized, some months later, that if he were a white man I would have never complemented him for being well spoken, and I feel gutted. That is just a small example of white privilege. People are not amazed when you do well for yourself when you are white. You are never spoken of as a 'credit for your race'.

I look Middle Eastern more then anything, due to my father being a mixture of races and my mother being Greek. When I go into clothing stores its not uncommon for me to get followed, or shadowed, despite the fact I am usually well groomed and well dressed. Everytime Im not chosen after an interview I cant help but wonder if the way I look had anything to do with the decision. A local temp agency was busted recently for writing B for black and M for Mexican next to the names of applicants. White privilege in full force.

I was just at the fair recently only to notice the owners of one shop do nothing but glare at me while I looked through the items, only to eagerly rush and assist 2 white customers who came long after me. I've gone into a 'country western wear' store only to be completely ignored by the over one dozen store employees while watching in fear as the security guard put his hand on his gun as I walked by. If I was white, I would not suffer that horror and feeling of being seen as sub-human.

When I want to find a date, 90%+ of the girls do not look like me. If I were white, 90%+ of the girls would look like me, and likely be more attracted to me. These are true stories. If I were white, people wouldnt assume I supported Barrack Obama. If I were white, people wouldnt compliment me on how well I speak English. If I were white, I wouldnt be asked to play the role of the slave in 6th grade History. If I were white, I wouldnt be given the undesirable job at the end of the assembly line where the majority of colored employees worked. If I were white, I wouldnt learn little to nothing about my ancestors in school. If I were white, I wouldnt be asked if I liked the only other colored girl in class. If I were white, I wouldnt be considered a foreigner or african-american or native-american or latino, but an American.

White privilege cant be 'fixed' in all its forms, just as someone being born into wealth cant 'fix' themselves. But what the wealthy person should do is first and foremost is acknowledge his privilege. Playing dumb and claiming being born into wealth affords you no advantages or special treatment is being uncouth in the highest order. The next step is to vet yourself. Are you treating all races equally? Do you understand and sympathize with those who dot have white privilege? Do you stand up to and call out those who abuse white privilege?

Abusing white privilege has become neo-racism. Its underground, it isnt blatant, its indirect, it leaves no physical trace or trail, leaving many to question its existence.

 

[Com Fox]

I feel like I want to address my own opinions on this one on one, as I agree with some stuff but not on others and some I would like answers

When searching white privilege on youtube it seems many of the videos are about white privilege not existing, or there is videos of white people mocking the idea. Videos supporting the idea of white privilege are heavily downvoted.

Mind if I see these videos, I watch several types of videos like these in my spare time and most that I see mostly complain more about how people use White Privilege as way to disregard a White persons opinion on a certain political manner. Not debate the existence.

The only one I can think of a video that tried to acknowledge White Male privilege was a thing was Laci Green's video on it from a Trans point of view, but that came with a view problems, especially the first point which actually addressed a female privilege of dancing to Biance.

EDIT: I don't recommend taking Youtube into examples, as Youtubes fanbase (well most of them) actually have similar politcal opinions, as much as Youtube wants to manipulate its ways against these kinds of opinions.

Being born a man gives you the privilege of pursuing a career like mechanic or engineer without people doubting your ability. Being born a man gives you the privilege of playing games online without being sexually harassed.

Being born a woman gives you the privilege of pursing a career like secretary or hair dresser without people doubting your sexual orientation. Being born a woman gives you the privilege of being more likely to win a child custody battle.

I think once people start to understand that white privilege is not the only type of privilege that exists, that can help them lower their guard when talking about it.

This I massively agree with, the problem comes from the sort of us vs. them mentality I often see in politcal discussions about this which ends up in a bit of spiral without seeing any real picture.

However, I real disagree that this will apply to all people of the certain group, sure you're more likely too but it can depend on the individual and the environment.

Being born white in a country that is predominantly white affords you white privilege. To deny that is to deny reality. To deny white privilege is to deny that any privilege exists at all. To deny white privilege is to say that humans treat and view each and every person equally, and nothing could be further from the truth. Its common behavior for people to favor their 'own', people who look like them, people from the same country, people with the same religion or political party. This is reality.

This is simply bias towards once own, which is believe to exist. It's like when you watch a TV Show or Movie and you prefer a character that mostly represents you in a way that you like. I don't see much sinister behind this, unless that isn't the intend.

This is what we call identity politics and does affect everyone as much as I hate saying it as I call myself an individualist. We always favour stuff that benefit us or give us comfort.

To white people who who still think white privilege does not exist, imagine this scenario: You are taken to a city in the middle of Africa and told to live there for 10 years. You are the only white person in the entire city. Do you honestly, sincerely believe you will be treated as an equal to the other black people there? That the majority black community will treat you completely fairly and equal while never favoring their own over you? When looking for a job, and its between you and 9 other black people, can you say with 100% certainty the black supervisor is going to see you as an equal and the color of your skin will not affect his decision? How will you feel when you go to the store to get a book for your child and they are all filled with images of black children? Maybe you are single. At work you see a nice looking black woman, you seem to mesh well, but she seems hesitant to be seen around you in front of her black family and friends. This is the land of black privilege, and you do not have it. Sucks doesnt it? To not really know just how much your being screwed over just because of the color of your skin.

I'm not keen in this example.

For starters no matter if you're a minority or a majority, everyone has privilege in one way or another. Might not be akin to race, maybe it's your political view or your gender.

2nd, didn't Africa have to go through some White Supremacy period even though Blacks were the majority? This makes it seem like this is more than numbers.

Also you don't need to go to Africa to see this happen to you, you just need enter "black neighbourhoods".

I have plenty of personal experiences. I'll start with an example of me being racist to a black man I had met recently. We spoke for a few minutes and he was articulate, so I complemented him on it. I only just realized, some months later, that if he were a white man I would have never complemented him for being well spoken, and I feel gutted. That is just a small example of white privilege. People are not amazed when you do well for yourself when you are white. You are never spoken of as a 'credit for your race'.

You intended to compliment the man for his speaking. That's enough to make me say you weren't being racist. This probably comes to personal opinion but to me, you can't be racist unless you have racist intentions. Context is they key important part.

There is a difference between complimenting someone for their english because you think it's good, and complimenting someone for their english just to remind them that they aren't the norm.

This scenario will happen to any foreigner from a non speaking country, sure it's more likely to happen to non-whites because of statistics, but the moment people know where you're from or you're heritage, complimenting someone for their english can happen to any foreigner regardless.

I look Middle Eastern more then anything, due to my father being a mixture of races and my mother being Greek. When I go into clothing stores its not uncommon for me to get followed, or shadowed, despite the fact I am usually well groomed and well dressed. Everytime Im not chosen after an interview I cant help but wonder if the way I look had anything to do with the decision. A local temp agency was busted recently for writing B for black and M for Mexican next to the names of applicants. White privilege in full force.

This feels more like profiling, you can argue how profiling is perceive as right now, it seems to be from personal fear and wanting to protect themselves, but they aren't taking any real action against you. The best case scenario would be to prove to them that you are not a threat and go on with your day.

I think everyone would profile if they saw someone they thought was suspicious, it doesn't even have to do with race. It could just be a sketchy dude or someone looking like a drug attic. You can argue that's bad if you want but I think it's a fine in the lines of personal safety.

I was just at the fair recently only to notice the owners of one shop do nothing but glare at me while I looked through the items, only to eagerly rush and assist 2 white customers who came long after me. I've gone into a 'country western wear' store only to be completely ignored by the over one dozen store employees while watching in fear as the security guard put his hand on his gun as I walked by. If I was white, I would not suffer that horror and feeling of being seen as sub-human.

Now it seems like that person on his own was being a racist 🤬, I don't recommend throwing everyone like him under that bus.

That can be seen as an example on non-White privilege. To not be automatically associated with racism, slavery and high class lifestyle. Now I know you said that you don't inherently think all White people are racist or evil, but these examples aren't giving me much light.

If I were white, people wouldnt assume I supported Barrack Obama.

and apparently if people weren't White, they wouldn't be assumed to support Donald Trump: http://time.com/4624222/chicago-teen-facebook-live-beating-hate-crime-charges/

It doesn't even have to be with race, even a certain opinion can set it off false accusations.

White privilege cant be 'fixed' in all its forms, just as someone being born into wealth cant 'fix' themselves.

This gets me even more confused in what you said at the beginning about not seeing White people being evil or racist.

Might have to ask questions here in case I'm getting off track but are you afraid of someones views and behaviour towards you the moment you know they're white? Do you think I have this inherent superiority complex about me the moment I'm born and have to grow out of it through some sort of sensitivity training? Do you think it is to do with biology and we can't think or do for ourselves? I know you said you don't but some of these wordings have gotten me confused as I think they sound contradictory.

But what the wealthy person should do is first and foremost is acknowledge his privilege.

This makes it sound like more against the upper class and not the whole race, now I do agree that people do need to be self aware on this though

Playing dumb and claiming being born into wealth affords you no advantages or special treatment is being uncouth in the highest order.

I also agree with this, somewhat. I think each indiviual can have their own kind of privilege when it comes to certain scenarios, it isn't just exclusive to a group of people because they are the majority.

Prime example is Asians.

While there are remarks that they have been discriminated against, studies have shown that not only are Asians more likely to succeed academically. They also earn more money than any other race in America: https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2016-07-01/asian-men-win-the-hourly-earnings-race-in-america

The next step is to vet yourself. Are you treating all races equally? Do you understand and sympathize with those who dot have white privilege?

I personally think I'm doing the best I can but I don't know if this makes me sound like I haven't done any and just a big all abuser of White privilege.

Do you stand up to and call out those who abuse white privilege?

I don't know how you can without making an unnecessary scene. The only exception would be when actual racism or discrimination is occuring but again, I think context is incredibly important when it comes to determining these actions as racist or not.

----------------------------

(Too long; didn't read): I think a lot of it comes down to the individual, while there are advantages depending on what you are, you're whole life shouldn't be dictated by the what and should be more about who you are. Take a stand if you think something is unfair instead of flaunting the race card into almost every situation. The moment you start caring about people's race the moment you talk or think about them and regard it as important, you've already made the race issue worse, (media is a massive example of this, especially during the 2016 Election).

 

[Famine]

What disturbs me the most is the amount, or percentage, of people who feel this does not exist at all.

It's not that it doesn't exist, it's that it only exists in certain circumstances. In others, as you say, it's a hindrance. In some situations it's far better to be white than black. In others it's far worse to be white than black.

And it has a better term that already exists and only needs a single word: Racism.

The same applies to "male privilege". Sometimes it's better to be male, sometimes it's worse. That'll be sexism then.


The issue isn't whether such things exist or don't, but whether it's a reasonable justification for something happening or just an excuse.

 

[Exorcet]

Being born white in a country that is predominantly white affords you white privilege. To deny that is to deny reality. To deny white privilege is to deny that any privilege exists at all. To deny white privilege is to say that humans treat and view each and every person equally, and nothing could be further from the truth. Its common behavior for people to favor their 'own', people who look like them, people from the same country, people with the same religion or political party. This is reality.

I have a hard time seeing it though. I don't really account for racism or sexism in my daily life because, if it's there, it effects so little that it's not worth noticing. I understand that people live in different places and in different circumstances, but from point of view, baseless discrimination is not the norm. I won't deny that it can happen though.

You are taken to a city in the middle of Africa and told to live there for 10 years. You are the only white person in the entire city. Do you honestly, sincerely believe you will be treated as an equal to the other black people there?

I see no reason for this not to be the case. It will depend on the people of course, but if there was no discrimination I would not be surprised.

How will you feel when you go to the store to get a book for your child and they are all filled with images of black children?

Would this be surprising if you were the first non black person to visit this region? Is this a problem for the child? You could just explain the situation, that you're a minority.

At work you see a nice looking black woman, you seem to mesh well, but she seems hesitant to be seen around you in front of her black family and friends.

I'm not saying that this can't happen, but I've never seen it. Never. I've not even met anyone who has talked about this. I am talking about both sides too, both form the position of shying away from a minority or being pushed away from being a minority. It's pretty taboo. If someone is experiencing this, I'd expect it to be a local problem.

I have plenty of personal experiences. I'll start with an example of me being racist to a black man I had met recently. We spoke for a few minutes and he was articulate, so I complemented him on it. I only just realized, some months later, that if he were a white man I would have never complemented him for being well spoken, and I feel gutted. That is just a small example of white privilege. People are not amazed when you do well for yourself when you are white. You are never spoken of as a 'credit for your race'.

This is something else I've never seen in reality. I honestly can't remember the last time that I've thought about a person's race outside of trying to guess where some really crazy last name comes from.

If this happens to you and it bothers you, just take note and make an effort not to do it again. Recognize stereotypes that you see and label them for what they are, stereotypes.

Everytime Im not chosen after an interview I cant help but wonder if the way I look had anything to do with the decision.

This sounds like it can be problematic. If you can't tell what the reason, jumping to a conclusion might keep you from fixing the real issue. If it really is racial discrimination, that's unfortunate, but given that I don't see this kind of thing at all it makes me wonder if it's limited to your immediate surroundings.

Do you stand up to and call out those who abuse white privilege?

I'm not sure what this would entail, but I think just keeping in mind that all people are people goes a long way to making things better for everyone. I find it hard to divide the world up by race. For that matter I even find it hard to divide the world up by nations. People are people. The only thing I might stumble on when interacting with people is language/thick accents because a difference in language poses problems for communication.

 

[ryzno]

Ironically the same arguments could be used in reverse. Try being white in a black neighborhood, like me.

And I noticed a few times you mention wealth. Do you think cause I'm white I came from money?

I have to agree with Famine, it's flat out racism. I go into a black owned store and get treated like they don't want my business. Know what I do? Take note not to shop there again and move along.
Not like the lady on the news who was unhappy she was refered to as "black chick" on her orders receipt.
If I had a dollar for every time I've been called "white boy"...

 

[Imari]

There's also the problem of labelling such a thing as if it were a negative, when it's really the aspiration. Being assumed to be capable of being a decent engineer is not a problem, the problem is assuming that certain people are not capable for reasons that have nothing at all to do with engineering.

Privilege, white or otherwise, is rarely the problem. Most of the problem is for those who are not privileged, and we already have lots of descriptors and advocacy groups for those.

Let's not create equality by creating adversity for everyone. If some people don't have to deal with racism and sexism, surely that's kind of the goal. Ideally it would be for everyone, but at least it's a start. We have a name for that over here: tall poppy syndrome. People try and equalise by bringing down people who are better or have it easier than others.

It's BS. Be happy for them. If white people don't have to deal with the same crap as black people then that sucks for black people, but nor is that something that individual whites should be going around apologising for as if it were not a cultural phenomenon dating from well before their own birth. Privilege is not a thing, it's simply a mislabelling of "how we'd all like to be treated".

I don't think it's particularly nice to apply pejorative labels to people who are being treated how everyone should be treated. The problem lies with how the unprivileged class is treated, not the privileged class, and so to address the issue as if it's something to do with "privileged" people is both a profound misunderstanding of the situation and massively intellectually dishonest.

When I want to find a date, 90%+ of the girls do not look like me. If I were white, 90%+ of the girls would look like me, and likely be more attracted to me.

Look, you can't get angry at people because they won't go out with you, even if it's for inherited traits like skin colour. They're allowed to choose to go out with people that they find attractive, for whatever reason. I think Indian chicks are hot. Big whoop, wanna fight about it?

You just sound mad that you can't get a date to me.

 

[Danoff]

Let's not create equality by creating adversity for everyone. If some people don't have to deal with racism and sexism, surely that's kind of the goal. Ideally it would be for everyone, but at least it's a start. We have a name for that over here: tall poppy syndrome. People try and equalise by bringing down people who are better or have it easier than others.

It's BS. Be happy for them.

There is a tendency to think that certain things, including "privilege" are fixed in terms of the amount in the world. So if one person has "privilege" someone else must not. People think the tall poppy got that way by keeping the others short. It's very wrong (in civilized nations anyway), but it's a pervasive attitude.

 

[TenEightyOne]

There is a tendency to think that certain things, including "privilege" are fixed in terms of the amount in the world. So if one person has "privilege" someone else must not.

The erroneous idea that privilege is a fixed quantity doesn't lead to the second at all. What leads to the second is the definition of privilege. For any single person to benefit (consciously or unconsciously) from privilege there has to be another person who isn't enjoying the same privelege - otherwise the state of privilege doesn't exist.

 

[Danoff]

The erroneous idea that privilege is a fixed quantity doesn't lead to the second at all. What leads to the second is the definition of privilege. For any single person to benefit (consciously or unconsciously) from privilege there has to be another person who isn't enjoying the same privelege - otherwise the state of privilege doesn't exist.

I understand that the word privilege might not be used if everyone were exactly equal (at least in regard to whatever the term applied to). The point is that one person having some "privilege" does not come at the expense of someone else. For example, someone might consider it a "privilege" that my parents taught me to read, whereas someone else's parents may not have taught them to read. Your point is that if the second person were taught to read, we wouldn't call me "privileged", and that's true. My point is that my parents teaching me to read does not require someone else to have not learned to read. My "privilege" did not come from their lack thereof.

 

[TenEightyOne]

Your point is that if the second person were taught to read, we wouldn't call me "privileged", and that's true. My point is that my parents teaching me to read does not require someone else to have not learned to read. My "privilege" did not come from their lack thereof.

I should have said "at least one other person". If every child in the world was taught to read then you'd be right - we wouldn't consider you priveleged. They're not, so we might.

If people did call you privileged because you were taught to read then why would that be?

 

[Danoff]

I should have said "at least one other person". If every child in the world was taught to read then you'd be right - we wouldn't consider you priveleged. They're not, so we might.

If people did call you privileged because you were taught to read then why would that be?

I think you're missing my point, which has nothing to do with the word "privilege". I'm saying mine doesn't come from someone else's lack. The tall poppy doesn't necessarily get that way by keeping others down. I agree that you don't call it "tall" if all the others are "tall", you call it a normal poppy. But it's still the same height, and it's not co-opted height.* Maybe you don't call it privilege if everyone can read, but I can still read in that scenario, and my ability to read didn't require others to not read.

*Poppy is not a wonderful metaphor here because there's only so much water or soil nutrients to go around.

 

[TenEightyOne]

I think you're missing my point, which has nothing to do with the word "privilege". I'm saying mine doesn't come from someone else's lack.

Privilege: a special right, advantage, or immunity granted or available only to a particular person or group.

It's exclusive by definition. There's little more to say about it.

 

[Imari]

Privilege: a special right, advantage, or immunity granted or available only to a particular person or group.

It's exclusive by definition. There's little more to say about it.

The point is that most of these "privileges" that people get up in arms about aren't a zero sum game. This isn't one group benefiting at the expense of another. It's a simple observation that the world is not entirely homogenous.

To take the white privilege thing as an example, white people aren't born white in purpose any more than black people are. To hold either of them accountable for the circumstances of their birth seems silly to me. You might as well say that there's lottery winners privilege.

 

[Danoff]

Privilege: a special right, advantage, or immunity granted or available only to a particular person or group.

It's exclusive by definition. There's little more to say about it.

Yes, I know the definition of privilege. I'm talking about how it was obtained.

The point is that most of these "privileges" that people get up in arms about aren't a zero sum game. This isn't one group benefiting at the expense of another. It's a simple observation that the world is not entirely homogenous.

This.

 

[TenEightyOne]

Yes, I know the definition of privilege. I'm talking about how it was obtained.

Very well - so by that definition your example of learning to read indicates that you have privilege. Nobody's saying that there was a nefarious intent to deprive other children of that service.

The point is that most of these "privileges" that people get up in arms about aren't a zero sum game. This isn't one group benefiting at the expense of another. It's a simple observation that the world is not entirely homogenous.

Quite agree. The world is not entirely homogenous.

To take the white privilege thing as an example, white people aren't born white in purpose any more than black people are. To hold either of them accountable for the circumstances of their birth seems silly to me. You might as well say that there's lottery winners privilege.

Those people carry on being white, if they're aware that certain societies afford them privileges based on their skin colour (whether consciously or entirely unconsciously) then isn't it perfectly understandable that anyone might feel that it's a situation which shouldn't happen? Surely by saying "well, that's just how it is" is part of the actual problem?

To be clear I'm talking about when racial privilege is a thing, not learning to read, or innoculations or inheriting country hizes.

 

[Danoff]

Very well - so by that definition your example of learning to read indicates that you have privilege. Nobody's saying that there was a nefarious intent to deprive other children of that service.

@Imari's comment was "be happy for them". I'm saying that one of the big motivations behind not being happy for someone who is not facing some sort of adverse condition, is because of the emotional tendency to assume that that person is the cause of the problem. Put simply, if someone is happy, and you're not happy, it is a common reaction to blame the happy person for your unhappiness. I'm agreeing with Imari when he says this:

The problem lies with how the unprivileged class is treated, not the privileged class, and so to address the issue as if it's something to do with "privileged" people is both a profound misunderstanding of the situation and massively intellectually dishonest.

...and I'm attempting to provide a context for why it occurs. Someone growing up illiterate can find themselves having to stifle resentment toward people who did not. I can think of at least one example of that (Adam Corolla).

 

[novcze]

To be clear I'm talking about when racial privilege is a thing, ...

any examples for us poor central europeans? ... you know, I'm not sure if I have one if there is no one to complain about it.

 

[TenEightyOne]

any examples for us poor central europeans? ... you know, I'm not sure if I have one if there is no one to complain about it.

Is that a Holocaust joke?

@Imari's comment was "be happy for them". I'm saying that one of the big motivations behind not being happy for someone who is not facing some sort of adverse condition, is because of the emotional tendency to assume that that person is the cause of the problem. Put simply, if someone is happy, and you're not happy, it is a common reaction to blame the happy person for your unhappiness.

So in the case of racial privilege it's automatically a problem for other races that aren't enjoying that privilege, or is it okay for people in the position of privilege to feel that their archaic privilege has no place in modern society?

 

[Danoff]

So in the case of racial privilege it's automatically a problem for other races that aren't enjoying that privilege, or is it okay for people in the position of privilege to feel that their archaic privilege has no place in modern society?

In the case of racism, it's a problem for everyone. However a lack of racism in one area does not require racism in another. It's not privilege that has no place, but disadvantage.

 

[TenEightyOne]

In the case of racism, it's a problem for everyone.

Agreed.

However a lack of racism in one area does not require racism in another.

Also agreed. I don't think I was claiming that and I haven't seen anybody else suggest that either.

It's not privilege that has no place, but disadvantage.

Agreed again. However, an inescapable truth is that privilege and disadvantage are by definition two sides of the same coin. Deciding which of the two is worst in any given situation can be highly subjective.

 

[novcze]

Is that a Holocaust joke?

no, why you think so? ... So I try something different, what would happen if you take out racial element, do you think that "white" privilege will be replaced by other differentiator?

IMO establishing white privilege is not going to help anybody and I'm probably not the only one who think that it reeks of generalisation and racism.

 

[Epic B]

I feel that white people have ruined America for far too long, and that it's time for change. Of course, it's wrong to blame an entire race. But regardless, change needs to happen.

 

[Keef]

I have a lot to say about this topic because I spent the last couple years discussing it with a girl I know. But I''ll have to wait until tomorrow to form a coherent paragraph.

 

[Parker]

I feel that white people have ruined America for far too long, and that it's time for change. Of course, it's wrong to blame an entire race. But regardless, change needs to happen.

Interesting. Can you please explain how white people have ruined America?

 

[Epic B]

Interesting. Can you please explain how white people have ruined America?

I think I can't win here. Maybe I said the wrong words. I still think we need change.

 

[Com Fox]

I feel that white people have ruined America for far too long, and that it's time for change. Of course, it's wrong to blame an entire race. But regardless, change needs to happen.

That sounds very horrifying to say the least. Now I know I'm a White Australian not a White American but man, talk about a bomb drop. So do you think I have the capability of ruining countries just because I'm white?

Granted you did follow up with this:

I think I can't win here. Maybe I said the wrong words. I still think we need change.

So unless you did say it wrong (then ignore this all) but...

...this sounds a lot like a statement for a reversal of power instead of actual equality. Blaming problems on the majority and then immediately wanting it to change.

Now, I think there should be change but I think @Imari has the best approach in this by bringing everyone else up instead lowering White people because they're White or do a complete flip on the so called "privilege".

 

[Epic B]

That sounds very horrifying to say the least. Now I know I'm a White Australian not a White American but man, talk about a bomb drop. So do you think I have the capability of ruining countries just because I'm white?

Granted you did follow up with this:

So unless you did say it wrong (then ignore this all) but...

...this sounds a lot like a statement for a reversal of power instead of actual equality. Blaming problems on the majority and then immediately wanting it to change.

Now, I think there should be change but I think @Imari has the best approach in this by bringing everyone else up instead lowering White people because they're White or do a complete flip on the so called "privilege".

Yeah, I think that's a good idea.

 

[Imari]

Agreed again. However, an inescapable truth is that privilege and disadvantage are by definition two sides of the same coin. Deciding which of the two is worst in any given situation can be highly subjective.

It can be, but when the idea is to extend the "privileges" to everyone I don't think that there's much to be gained by slapping pejoratives on people who happen to have them through luck in the genetic lottery.

Privilege and disadvantage are two ways of labeling the same cultural phenomena depending on what you want the outcome to be. They both get used as pejoratives, and so the one that you choose to use is generally indicative of the one that you want to see removed and the solutions that you'll find acceptable in doing so.

I find it interesting how many people see privilege as the problem rather than disadvantage. One can remove privilege without lifting a single finger to improve the situation of those that are disadvantaged. Hence my earlier references to tall poppy syndrome, where the solution is to bring the privileged down rather than raise the disadvantaged up.

I feel that white people have ruined America for far too long, and that it's time for change. Of course, it's wrong to blame an entire race. But regardless, change needs to happen.

I think I spotted the racist. Maybe you could put all the white people in camps or something? That sort of racial segregation has worked well in the past, even in America.

 

[mustafur]

When it comes to Financial I don't think Race has anything to do with it, Asians in any western country have higher incomes then whites, and that is likely to do with their parents being more interested in their childs education, which results in their kids being better educated with higher paying jobs.

The culture is the most important,and i think Culture still has along way to be fully inclusive of everyone so your going to find deference in race due to culture of said race.

The Social side of things is a different story but to expect instant adaption across society when they are hit with massive immigration from completely different cultures is ignorant of reality and i would expect the same thing to happen if other cultures where hit with it too.

 

[McLaren]

There's also the problem of labelling such a thing as if it were a negative, when it's really the aspiration. Being assumed to be capable of being a decent engineer is not a problem, the problem is assuming that certain people are not capable for reasons that have nothing at all to do with engineering.

Privilege, white or otherwise, is rarely the problem. Most of the problem is for those who are not privileged, and we already have lots of descriptors and advocacy groups for those.

Let's not create equality by creating adversity for everyone. If some people don't have to deal with racism and sexism, surely that's kind of the goal. Ideally it would be for everyone, but at least it's a start. We have a name for that over here: tall poppy syndrome. People try and equalise by bringing down people who are better or have it easier than others.

It's BS. Be happy for them. If white people don't have to deal with the same crap as black people then that sucks for black people, but nor is that something that individual whites should be going around apologising for as if it were not a cultural phenomenon dating from well before their own birth. Privilege is not a thing, it's simply a mislabelling of "how we'd all like to be treated".

I don't think it's particularly nice to apply pejorative labels to people who are being treated how everyone should be treated. The problem lies with how the unprivileged class is treated, not the privileged class, and so to address the issue as if it's something to do with "privileged" people is both a profound misunderstanding of the situation and massively intellectually dishonest.

I don't think you could be any more spot on, but if you lived here, this is exactly what triggers those who go around calling out white privilege. They would call you out & mark you as a racist for saying it "sucks for black people"; the word racist has become used so much as a "trap card" here when you don't like what people have to say, even if race isn't involved. It used to be a powerful allegation to call someone a racist.

I liked Famine's summary that it's basically racism as well. I can't speak for others but from what I've seen, many of the people who like to call out "white privilege"( even if whites weren't involved) usually reveal themselves to make racist remarks in some way when you engage them. I'm sure you've heard some of their retorts, "If white people have to say they have black friends, they're usually racist" or "blacks can't be racist". To be fair, it can swing the other way as well when I see the first remark to a story being, "If a white man did that, they'd burn down a neighborhood". There may be a bit of a point there about a potential double standard, but that kind of claim tends to have racial undertones as well.

As for the topic itself, I tend to avoid it because as a white man, anything I say about white privilege usually gets met with, "your white privilege allows you to say that!" It just ends up being a pointless battle because the term gets thrown at me with whatever I say, even when I show sympathy for their issues, unless I agree with them and use my white privilege to apologize for the people I have no relation to for the actions towards people they have no relation to. Feels best to use my "white privilege" to just stay out of it with some of these people.