White Privilege

[PocketZeven]

I know. I asked whether you'd like to address that the data also shows that white supremacist groups are not increasing. You still haven't addressed that particular part.

Seriously, I know English is not your first language but there's nothing particularly complex about that. Run it through Google Translate or something if you must.



The person you are online and the person you are in "real life" are the same person. If you're not "chill" on here, you're not chill. Sorry to be the bearer of bad news. Just because you think you are a certain way doesn't make it true. We can all observe your personality from here.

Chill means relaxed and easy-going. That does not describe your persona on these forums. You have principles, and you're profoundly un-chill in the way that you express them. You do not take criticism well, nor are you particularly willing to break down the logic of your arguments or reassess them.

On the day you can express your principles in a chill manner, I will admit that you may be chill. But you've got a long way to go.

I speak multiple languages and sometimes have trouble with grammar and vocabular. Google translate hardly takes context and grammar into account.

I cant disprove white supremacists group of increasing, but the rise of hategroups overall is already a bad direction. I do know that murders by white surpremacists have been on the rise. Perhaps there I got this factual incorrect view that white surpremacist groups are on the rise. I cannot find data on the number of members of these hate groups, so technically it isnt 1000% correct to state that white surpremacy is not on the rise. Found some additional date:

So perhaps the white hate groups didnt grow overall and on the website is attributed to a decline in the KKK. Neo nazi however had even further increased by 22% in 2017.

Most members who post here seem to have rightwing view and I am trying to get an understanding and give my own opinion. I respect all your opinions and views, but some here might think I am some crazy Alt-left trump hating communist. I like debating once in a while with some friends about these issues with some alcohol and drugs like any other guy. So hopefully you keep your mind open and dont label me directly as "that" guy.

Silly you indeed.
https://policy.m4bl.org/platform/


That's a whole lot of free and full access to black people only, and this is just education.

Oh boy, it gets better. As long as you're 18, you get free income that covers all your costs of living. If you're black.

Because of climate change, they should be given more control over sustainable energy and food systems....

And then we get to cutting our military budget in half so:

That's for black people. That's right; the US cuts its military spending and closes over 800 US bases around the world so black people can have free health care, free employment, free housing, free education.

This isn't equal rights, this is a handout for 1 race at the cost of everyone else.


The problem with all of this is one @Rallywagon already pointed out to you:

These groups don't care. They only see skin color. That's why they want him as a white man to pay for the sins of another, long dead white man the same way they feel as black men, they are entitled to compensation for the suffering of another, long dead black man. Most of these people have no interest in even trying to prove whose family was even linked back then; it's only about money. But, these groups do a good job masking that hidden goal by arguing that the reparations are for the race as a whole and its treatment in the US. But even then, rally's point still stands; he's not those people, not from that era, or was affiliated.
My family alone, in that era were in Holland, so thought of paying reparations isn't remotely entertaining. There's probably some dark history in the Netherlands we're more attributed to.

Dont know why you are posting this? We all agreed these supremacist groups are a minority of extremists. I am not even black?!?! You do realize these statements are for the people who joined this particular group. You seem to suggest that a majority of black lives matters activist and supporters agree with what is stated on this particular website. These statements seems just as crazy as those alt-right movements.

This website https://blacklivesmatter.com/about/what-we-believe/ already seems a lot more reasonable in its ambitions.

I could react with a post with the mission statement of a white supremacy and "suggest" that all white people that are against black lives matters all support these: http://wckkkk.org/eql.html Which for abvious reasons is just not true.

And if you are a student of history and economics you should look into the claim for slavery reparation. The US became very rich in large part of all the Free labor they used. I also saw a netflix documentary "explained" a while ago. That explained the racial wealth gap in the US. Please take your time and have a look.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Repar...n_the_United_States#Proposals_for_Reparations

As for the dutch. They were very much guilty in the dark page of the history of Slavery trade during colonial times.

As a matter of fact I did quote the entire sentence. Let's try it again, this time I'll even boldface the sentence I quoted, let's see if that helps you out:

There you go, there's three sentences, the middle one of which is the one I'd quoted earlier and boldfaced here. So yes, I quoted the complete sentence.



Again, have you a single shred of evidence that that's the case here?



Common sense is not hard evidence. To be sure, I'd agree it may be a factor, but certainly not the entirety of it as you implied.

As some of you know, english is not my first language. So the confusion here is my fault. My apologies. What I meant is to quote the rest of the statement. And again without doing proper research I can only voice my theories and observations. I can not prove these since I am not familiar with any hate groups, its overlying cultures and its infrastructure.

But then again can you disprove my statement with any evidence? Would black hate groups in the US have existed regardless of the existence of white groups?

Edit: Added dutch dark history
Edit2 : Added response to @BobK
Edit3: added resonse to @Imari
Edit3: added data

 

[McLaren]

:
Don't know why you are posting this? We all agreed these supremacist groups are a minority of extremists. I am not even black?!?! You do realize these statements are for the people who joined this particular group. You seem to suggest that a majority of black lives matters activist and supporters agree with what is stated on this particular website. These statements seems just as crazy as those alt-right movements.

I posted it because you made the comment that “silly you thinking black hate groups only want equal rights, not superior rights.”

There’s a load of evidence on the contrary and this isn’t even a hate group like the Black Riders Liberation Party.

What I’m suggesting is that you were wrong. What they suggest however is that indeed, large groups of people agree with them when you scroll down to Members and Endorsers.
https://policy.m4bl.org/about/

This website https://blacklivesmatter.com/about/what-we-believe/ already seems a lot more reasonable in its ambitions.

That website is a listed member of the site I linked.

Members of the United Front:
Black Lives Matter Network

I could react with a post with the mission statement of a white supremacy and "suggest" that all white people that are against black lives matters all support these: http://wckkkk.org/eql.html Which for abvious reasons is just not true.

Too bad this would only apply if I was stating what you said except replacing black with white:

Could you point me to these black supremacy groups? (im not black) Silly me always thought that all black hate groups want is equal rights and not superior rights.

And if you are a student of history and economics you should look into the claim for slavery reparation. The US became very rich in large part of all the Free labor they used. I also saw a netflix documentary "explained" a while ago. That explained the racial wealth gap in the US. Please take your time and have a look.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Repar...n_the_United_States#Proposals_for_Reparations

As for the dutch. They were very much guilty in the dark page of the history of Slavery trade during colonial times.

Too bad, don’t care.

I wasn’t involved in any of US slavery and neither was my family during the time it happened. Slave trade is still alive today and several countries have a history of it. Doesn’t mean I feel any sort of responsibility for it.

 

[PocketZeven]

I posted it because you made the comment that “silly you thinking black hate groups only want equal rights, not superior rights.”

There’s a load of evidence on the contrary and this isn’t a hate group like the Black Panthers.

What I’m suggesting is that you were wrong. What they suggest however is that indeed, large groups of people agree with them when you scroll down to Members and Endorsers.
https://policy.m4bl.org/about/


That website is a listed member of the site I linked.



Too bad this would only apply if I was stating what you said except replacing black with white:



Too bad, don’t care.

I wasn’t involved in any of US slavery and neither was my family during the time it happened. Slave trade is still alive today and several countries have a history of it. Doesn’t mean I feel any sort of responsibility for it.

Hopefully you have common sense that not all these groups believe in what is stated. After reading the website, although you seem to suggest that their "demands" are exclusively for black people, that isnt entirely correct:

"Black humanity and dignity requires black political will and power. In response to the sustained and increasingly visible violence against Black communities in the U.S. and globally, a collective of more than 50 organizations representing thousands of Black people from across the country have come together with renewed energy and purpose to articulate a common vision and agenda. We are a collective that centers and is rooted in Black communities, but we recognize we have a shared struggle with all oppressed people; collective liberation will be a product of all of our work."

I do understand fully someone might enterpit these demands as black only, but I dont think that was the intention. Also I dont see any claim for black supriority and aggression. This website is just another leftwing liberal mission statement, albeit focused on blkack people.

Wasnt speaking to you personally and not trying to convince you otherwise. I am neither black or american so I have no relation with US slavery whatsoever. I was just stating that Reparation does make sense from certain points of view historically. You perhaps should do look at the information that is out there.

 

[McLaren]

Hopefully you have common sense that not all these groups believe in what is stated. After reading the website, although you seem to suggest that their "demands" are exclusively for black people, that isnt entirely correct:

"Black humanity and dignity requires black political will and power. In response to the sustained and increasingly visible violence against Black communities in the U.S. and globally, a collective of more than 50 organizations representing thousands of Black people from across the country have come together with renewed energy and purpose to articulate a common vision and agenda. We are a collective that centers and is rooted in Black communities, but we recognize we have a shared struggle with all oppressed people; collective liberation will be a product of all of our work."

I do understand fully someone might enterpit these demands as black only, but I dont think that was the intention. Also I dont see any claim for black supriority and aggression. This website is just another leftwing liberal mission statement, albeit focused on blkack people.

Wasnt speaking to you personally and not trying to convince you otherwise. I am neither black or american so I have no relation with US slavery whatsoever. I was just stating that Reparation does make sense from certain points of view historically. You perhaps should do look at the information that is out there.

This has nothing to do with me. I know not all black people support such insane demands.

You however, made a stupid claim that black hate groups only want equal rights, not superior rights. And I showed you a black non-hate group does want superior rights. You’re asinine if you think those demands are truly for everyone including white people. Just makes them even more ridiculous; hand outs for all for nothing.

 

[PocketZeven]

This has nothing to do with me. I know not all black people support such insane demands.

You however, made a stupid claim that black hate groups only want equal rights, not superior rights. And I showed you a black non-hate group does want superior rights. You’re asinine if you think those demands are truly for everyone including white people. Just makes them even more ridiculous; hand outs for all for nothing.

I didnt claim that at all. I said clearly I mistakenly thought black people only wanted equal rights. I admitted the mistake. Also I never ever would claim such a thing about hate
groups. So you probably misread my post. You are reacting as if I am defending that website? It is just another liberal leftwing propaganda website.


And dude I am not black why would I be for such rights? Your reactions just seem to make me think you dont like black people much. But I disgree with most statements made of those website!

 

[McLaren]

I didnt claim that at all. I said clearly I mistakenly thought black people only wanted equal rights. I admitted the mistake.

Could you point me to these black supremacy groups? (im not black) Silly me always thought that all black hate groups want is equal rights and not superior rights. And there undoubtly be latin surpremacy or asian surpremacy groups/ These are mostly on the fringe (small following) and crazy people.

You never said anything clearly. Someone who goes “silly me always thought” is usually a sarcastic form of expression meaning one really does think that.

Also I never ever would claim such a thing about hate
groups. So you probably misread my post.

More a case you failed to articulate your post.

You are reacting as if I am defending that website? It is just another liberal leftwing propaganda website

And dude I am not black why would I be for such rights? Your reactions just seem to make me think you dont like black people much. But I disgree with most statements made of those website!

You’re the only one who keeps thinking I’m associating you with the website. You said “silly me for thinking black hate groups only want equal rights not superior rights”. That is exactly how you worded it; I pointed out you were silly indeed for thinking that.

 

[SagarisGTB]

@McLaren We've been here before. You just don't learn do you? Are you not reading thoroughly or are you willfully misrepresenting BLM's demands again?

Oh boy, it gets better. As long as you're 18, you get free income that covers all your costs of living. If you're black.

Do you know what a UBI is? It applies to all adults, no strings attached. BLM's official demands want a UBI for everyone, with black americans receiving a "slightly" higher payment as reparations over a specified period of time.

A pro-rated additional amount included in a UBI for Black Americans over a specified period of time.

The revenue saved from divesting in criminal justice institutions could be pooled into a fund for UBI; this revenue could be earmarked for the “PLUS” aspect of the policy that would be targeted toward Black Americans. If combined with other funds, it would effectively function as reparations, in a grand bargain with white America: All would benefit, but those who suffered through slavery and continuing racism would benefit slightly more.

And then we get to cutting our military budget in half so:

That's for black people. That's right; the US cuts its military spending and closes over 800 US bases around the world so black people can have free health care, free employment, free housing, free education.

This isn't equal rights, this is a handout for 1 race at the cost of everyone else.

You do know what the word "and" means right? "Expands resources available for reparations and the various demands of the broad movement for Black lives:". It is elaborated in each section that BLM want social security for all (which, they argue, would benefit black people more than others as black people are currently among the least supported and most vulnerable groups in the US).

As an example, here's the action they want in terms of health care:

Federal Action:

• Pass a bill to expand public health care to all U.S. residents and mandate that the wealthy residents pay for a portion of their services while low-income and working class folks receive free services.

It's much the same for the other programs.

Whether you agree or disagree, don't misrepresent. It doesn't make you look good and suggests you have something against BLM beyond your opposition to left-wing social policy.

You’re asinine if you think those demands are truly for everyone including white people.

Why? With the exception of reparations, they are.

 

[PocketZeven]

You never said anything clearly. Someone who goes “silly me always thought” is usually a sarcastic form of expression meaning one really does think that.

More a case you failed to articulate your post.

You’re the only one who keeps thinking I’m associating you with the website. You said “silly me for thinking black hate groups only want equal rights not superior rights”. That is exactly how you worded it; I pointed out you were silly indeed for thinking that.

Yet I stated I thought one thing and was wrong about it. If you want to interpet my intentions to support your narrative I respect that. But please believe me when I say directly to you :I did not now there were black hate groups out there that stated things you quoted in your post.

I do have problems articulating correctly. Like I said I am a non native english speaker. I speak multiple languages daily and perhaps I used the wrong articulation like you said.

But back to subject I did find sources that do prove white hate groups or on the rise using the same data (SPLC). The reason why it hasnt risen overal is the decline of certain chapters of the KKK. In 2017 alone Neo nazi groups have risen with 22% . Anti muslim groups tripled in 2015/2016 and grew 13% in 2017. As a result general hate crimes have risen the past 2 years.

https://www.splcenter.org/fighting-hate/intelligence-report/2018/2017-year-hate-and-extremism

https://cairmichigan.org/splc-repor...ate-group-growth-idaho-numbers-remain-stable/

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...elected-fbi-data-show/?utm_term=.927ab653c99c

@McLaren We've been here before. You just don't learn do you? Are you not reading thoroughly or are you willfully misrepresenting BLM's demands again? Do you know what a UBI is? It applies to all adults, no strings attached. BLM's official demands want a UBI for everyone, with black americans receiving a "slightly" higher payment as reparations over a specified period of time.


You do know what the word "and" means right? "Expands resources available for reparations and the various demands of the broad movement for Black lives:". It is elaborated in each section that BLM want social security for all (which, they argue, would benefit black people more than others as black people are currently among the least supported and most vulnerable groups in the US).

As an example, here's the action they want in terms of health care:
It's much the same for the other programs.

Whether you agree or disagree, don't misrepresent. It doesn't make you look good and suggests you have something against BLM beyond your opposition to left-wing social policy.
Why? With the exception of reparations, they are.

I agree that most "demands" are not stated specifically for black people. But on the other hand I do understand why @McLaren was thinking that. The website does "suggests" these are demands for Black people exclusively. Anybody with a rightwing mindset will just interpet it like that. Although I think it wasnt their intention. So perhaps they should correct that on the website and differentiate specific demands for Black people and for demands that they think will benefit all people.

Edit: added response @SagarisGTB

 

[Rallywagon]

I'm sorry, which person recieving the "plus" would have been a slave? I mean, are we talking about actual people that have been taken and recovered from actual slavery, like sex slaves, or are we talking about the family members many generations removed from slavery? Cause, again, when do Native Americans and Celts get in on this if the latter is the case?

 

[PocketZeven]

I'm sorry, which person recieving the "plus" would have been a slave? I mean, are we talking about actual people that have been taken and recovered from actual slavery, like sex slaves, or are we talking about the family members many generations removed from slavery? Cause, again, when do Native Americans and Celts get in on this if the latter is the case?

Havent native american tribes reach a settlement with the US government after some sort of lawsuit? And unlike the victims of slavery did receive land from the government?

 

[SagarisGTB]

I'm sorry, which person recieving the "plus" would have been a slave? I mean, are we talking about actual people that have been taken and recovered from actual slavery, like sex slaves, or are we talking about the family members many generations removed from slavery?

Good point. I would guess that they are referring to those that are descendants of those that suffered through slavery. It is poorly worded regardless.

 

[McLaren]

@McLaren We've been here before. You just don't learn do you? Are you not reading thoroughly or are you willfully misrepresenting BLM's demands again? Do you know what a UBI is? It applies to all adults, no strings attached. BLM's official demands want a UBI for everyone, with black americans receiving a "slightly" higher payment as reparations over a specified period of time.


You do know what the word "and" means right? "Expands resources available for reparations and the various demands of the broad movement for Black lives:". It is elaborated in each section that BLM want social security for all (which, they argue, would benefit black people more than others as black people are currently among the least supported and most vulnerable groups in the US).

As an example, here's the action they want in terms of health care:
It's much the same for the other programs.

Whether you agree or disagree, don't misrepresent. It doesn't make you look good and suggests you have something against BLM beyond your opposition to left-wing social policy.
Why? With the exception of reparations, they are.

Oh look, the BLM apologist who purposely ignores the fact these demands are solely for the betterment for blacks. They were not made so everyone gets a piece of the pie, even if the end result allows so. The first and foremost goal is for them to be taken care of at the expense of others under the guise of socialism.

This is not up for debate that you think BLM has been misrepresented by me. They did it to themselves the moment they let others take over, make headline news, and erase any attempt at a positive impact nationwide. “Pigs in a blanket, fry em like blanket” was the final blow and no one bothered to take control. I’ve said this before numerously, so you won’t get another reply out of it; it needed a MLK Jr. to become the face of it and it failed to jump at the impact it would make with a sole figurehead.

Yet I stated I thought one thing and was wrong about it. If you want to interpet my intentions to support your narrative I respect that. But please believe me when I say directly to you :I did not now there were black hate groups out there that stated things you quoted in your post.

I do have problems articulating correctly. Like I said I am a non native english speaker. I speak multiple languages daily and perhaps I used the wrong articulation like you said.

Misunderstanding on my part. As said, I wasn’t trying to paint you as a supporter or argue for whites. I saw your post worded a certain way, and went after it as such.

Apologies then.

 

[SagarisGTB]

Oh look, the BLM apologist who purposely ignores the fact these demands are solely for the betterment for blacks. They were not made so everyone gets a piece of the pie, even if the end result allows so. The first and foremost goal is for them to be taken care of at the expense of others under the guise of socialism.

Of course the goal is betterment for blacks. That's what BLM exists for. Just like other activist organizations are focused on improving conditions for other groups of people. That doesn't mean BLM wants to drag down other groups or give black people special rights (beyond reparations for a specified period of time), they officially don't. In fact, they recognize the suffering of other groups, mentioning people of colour in general, LGBT people and trans people fairly often in the demands and mention how other groups will benefit from their proposed policy changes.

This is not up for debate that you think BLM has been misrepresented by me. They did it to themselves the moment they let others take over, make headline news, and erase any attempt at a positive impact nationwide. “Pigs in a blanket, fry em like blanket” was the final blow and no one bothered to take control. I’ve said this before numerously, so you won’t get another reply out of it; it needed a MLK Jr. to become the face of it and it failed to jump at the impact it would make with a sole figurehead.

Nobody here is claiming BLM have not had any leadership missteps or pr issues, but that doesn't give you license to misrepresent their written demands.

 

[McLaren]

Nobody here is claiming BLM have not had any leadership missteps or pr issues, but that doesn't give you license to misrepresent their written demands.

There’s no misrepresentation here coming from a leader of the movement.
https://www.leoweekly.com/2017/08/white-people/

3. If you are a developer or realty owner of multi-family housing, build a sustainable complex in a black or brown blighted neighborhood and let black and brown people live in it for free.

4. White people, if you can afford to downsize, give up the home you own to a black or brown family. Preferably a family from generational poverty.

3 of the following ones are telling white people to get others fired or “use your hands” against anyone racist, or more accurately, assume since she encourages people to call the police on anyone you think is suspicious.

Again, last time, this is where the movement lost itself. Work to find a common ground, attacking and making silly ass lists like these just pushes people away.

 

[SagarisGTB]

There’s no misrepresentation here coming from a leader of the movement.
https://www.leoweekly.com/2017/08/white-people/


3 of the following ones are telling white people to get others fired or “use your hands” against anyone racist, or more accurately, assume since she encourages people to call the police on anyone you think is suspicious.

Again, last time, this is where the movement lost itself. Work to find a common ground, attacking and making silly ass lists like these just pushes people away.

You're doing it again!!!

This "list of demands" originated from a facebook post listing what white allies wondering what more they could do could do to help underprivileged people. She even explains that there's no expectations implied, just a listing of ideas.

 

[Danoff]

You're doing it again!!!

This "list of demands" originated from a facebook post listing what white allies wondering what more they could do could do to help underprivileged people. She even explains that there's no expectations implied, just a listing of ideas.

Ok... so that means she should make a list of suggested racism for white people to engage in?

 

[McLaren]

You're doing it again!!!

This "list of demands" originated from a facebook post listing what white allies wondering what more they could do could do to help underprivileged people. She even explains that there's no expectations implied, just a listing of ideas.

Bunch of bull**** just like all the other times she’s tried “clarify” what she meant even though the original article makes no mention of white allies; it specifically says 10 Requests from a BLM Leader.

The wording in her article as it goes on speaks volumes; they’re not suggestions for allies, there what she wants to see personally bc the tone in her word choice is clear as day. White women specialities are Meddling Kathy’s and Nosey Jenny’s, “other lil-dick white men”, get your boss fired, call the police for stupid ass assumptions, etc. Those suggestions go from calm to full on resentment bc she’s nothing more than an angry black woman.

So, you keep defending POS people like her as being “misrepresented” and become part of the reason this movement has such a negative view now. End of discussion as far as this movement is concerned.

 

[SagarisGTB]

Bunch of bull**** just like all the other times she’s tried “clarify” what she meant even though the original article makes no mention of white allies; it specifically says 10 Requests from a BLM Leader.

The wording in her article as it goes on speaks volumes; they’re not suggestions for allies, there what she wants to see personally bc the tone in her word choice is clear as day. White women specialities are Meddling Kathy’s and Nosey Jenny’s, “other lil-dick white men”, get your boss fired, call the police for stupid ass assumptions, etc. Those suggestions go from calm to full on resentment bc she’s nothing more than an angry black woman.

So, you keep defending POS people like her as being “misrepresented” and become part of the reason this movement has such a negative view now. End of discussion as far as this movement is concerned.

She is/was an angry black woman? Well, yeah, this was posted right after Charlottesville.

I obviously can't tell you what she thought or thinks. Maybe she was angry and changed her stance as she calmed down and changed her story a bit. Or maybe it was for allies all along (plausible based on where it was posted). It used charged language that I don't particularly like, but I'm certainly not going to call a person a POS because of it, nevermind discrediting the entire movement because of one regional leader going too far (before clarification). As I said, I'm not going to claim BLM has a clean PR record, but that doesn't give you license to misrepresent their official demands, which this was not part of.

 

[McLaren]

that doesn't give you license to misrepresent their official demands, which this was not part of.

nevermind discrediting the entire movement because of one regional leader going too far

They did it to themselves the moment they let others take over.
....
“Pigs in a blanket, fry em like blanket” was the final blow

 

[SagarisGTB]

It's a movement, it's never going to be a tight ship and I suspect it will never meet your standards. You're justifying your misrepresentations of the official demands because the behavior by a small minority associated with BLM has been objectionable. That's insane. But keep painting with broad brushes. Do you think its fair to demonize the republican party in light of their questionable apples and bad apples? Is it fair game to question reasonable republicans and blame them with statements like "They did it to themselves the moment they let others take over"? I wonder.

 

[McLaren]

It's a movement, it's never going to be a tight ship and I suspect it will never meet your standards. But keep painting with broad brushes. Do you think its fair to demonize the republican party in light of their questionable apples and bad apples? Is it fair game to question reasonable republicans and blame them with statements like "They did it to themselves the moment they let others take over"? I wonder.

See, because comprehension is apparently hard, you fail to understand the simple point that their image is no longer positive. The fact people actually petitioned to label the BLM as a terrorist organization shows whatever cause it was after, sustained a lot of damage, and watching members walk down the street chanting to fry police officers never did them any good b/c now, that image, all the highway protests, and the altercations of people shouting in the street is all they are remembered for.

Maybe coming from a former civil rights activist will lay it out better for you to grasp, citing Oprah who said the exact same thing I did. It needed a leader.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/post...nd-black-lives-matter/?utm_term=.dcf6851d0c71

The baby boomers who drove the success of the civil rights movement want to get behind Black Lives Matter, but the group’s confrontational and divisive tactics make it difficult. In the 1960s, activists confronted white mobs and police with dignity and decorum, sometimes dressing in church clothes and kneeling in prayer during protests to make a clear distinction between who was evil and who was good.

But at protests today, it is difficult to distinguish legitimate activists from the mob actors who burn and loot. The demonstrations are peppered with hate speech, profanity, and guys with sagging pants that show their underwear. Even if the BLM activists aren’t the ones participating in the boorish language and dress, neither are they condemning it.

The power of the spiritual approach was evident recently in the way relatives of the nine victims in the Charleston church shooting responded at the bond hearing for Dylann Roof, the young white man who reportedly confessed to killing the church members “to start a race war.” One by one, the relatives stood in the courtroom, forgave the accused racist killer and prayed for mercy on his soul. As a result, in the wake of that horrific tragedy, not a single building was burned down. There was no riot or looting.

The loving, nonviolent approach is what wins allies and mollifies enemies. But what we have seen come out of Black Lives Matter is rage and anger — justifiable emotions, but questionable strategy. For months, it seemed that BLM hadn’t thought beyond that raw emotion, hadn’t questioned where it would all lead. I and other elders openly worried that, without a clear strategy and well-defined goals, BLM could soon crash and burn out. Oprah Winfrey voiced that concern earlier this year, saying, “What I’m looking for is some kind of leadership to come out of this to say, ‘This is what we want. This is what has to change, and these are the steps that we need to take to make these changes, and this is what we’re willing to do to get it.'”

For her wise counsel, Oprah became the target of a deluge of tweets from young activists, who denounced her as elitist and “out of touch,” which caused some well-meaning older sages to grit their teeth in silence. Now, nearly 10 months later, BLM has finally come around, releasing a list of policy demands last week. If this young movement had embraced the well-meaning advice of its elders earlier, instead of responding with disdain, it could have spent recent months making headway with political leaders, instead of battling the disheartening images of violence and destruction that have followed its protests against police brutality in black neighborhoods.

When even Oprah can't get through to a movement, that's a sure sign something went wrong.

 

[mustafur]

Welcome to the first world, your not going to starve, and you will have a roof over your head, but you will be constantly oppressed.

 

[SagarisGTB]

See, because comprehension is apparently hard, you fail to understand the simple point that their image is no longer positive.

And what does that have to do with what I'm saying? It seems to me like your hate for BLM is not letting you admit your mistake, so you just keep piling on the straw men. Whatever the image of Black Lives Matter, you don't get to spread fake news. That's not how it works. You can't quote their website, cherry pick lines and claim it represents something that it clearly doesn't. When someone like Donald Trump, someone with a very negative image, is misrepresented, it's not fair game. Same for BLM's positions. This unrepresentative characterization of BLM that has been perpetrated by many with right-wing views, including what you are doing here, has contributed to the negative image of BLM as much or more than any flaws with the actions and voiced opinions of the activists themselves.

The fact people actually petitioned to label the BLM as a terrorist organization shows whatever cause it was after, sustained a lot of damage, and watching members walk down the street chanting to fry police officers never did them any good b/c now, that image, all the highway protests, and the altercations of people shouting in the street is all they are remembered for.

A thought on this line: whatever the warts and moles that BLM has, anyone that considers it a terrorist organization is not worth taking seriously. That line is also an appeal to a false authority. Just a remark, I don't care to debate BLM's image.

 

[McLaren]

This unrepresentative characterization of BLM that has been perpetrated by many with right-wing views, including what you are doing here, has contributed to the negative image of BLM as much or more than any flaws with the actions and voiced opinions of the activists themselves.

 

[Mr Tree]

I don't think these remarks are ok to shout during a protest as people like ypu can project them onto the entire movement organising the protest. I do find these remarks to be understanable considering what sparked to movement and who they reffered to as pigs. This being out of the way I'm wondering.

What's your opinion on Trump and his political movement. They're terrorists right they do have a leader but a leader that calls for violence against protesters and the media at his rallies. Sure he lost you when he said
"I'd like to punch him in the face, I'll tell you."
Or
"If you see somebody getting ready to throw a tomato, knock the crap out of them, would you? Seriously, OK? Just knock the hell ... I promise you I will pay for the legal fees. I promise, I promise,"

Or when.he made fun of a reporter for being disabled or when at his rallies they call for locking up political opponents while the fbi investigation said there to be neglegence but noting illegal...
Not forgetting that muslim ban in a country that claims to hold non discrimination to a high standard. Or how mexicans are perdominantly violent thughs.

But apparently being confrontational isn't really a reason for many to stop support, calling for violence or political prisoners isn't either.

So if you support Trump and think BLM is or should be labeled a terrorist organisation I'm wondering where the double standard comes from or what I'm missing.

 

[McLaren]

I don't think these remarks are ok to shout during a protest as people like ypu can project them onto the entire movement organising the protest. I do find these remarks to be understanable considering what sparked to movement and who they reffered to as pigs. This being out of the way I'm wondering.

The problem lies in the fact that nobody in that movement condemns them. Go back to the article I quoted.

But at protests today, it is difficult to distinguish legitimate activists from the mob actors who burn and loot. The demonstrations are peppered with hate speech, profanity, and guys with sagging pants that show their underwear. Even if the BLM activists aren’t the ones participating in the boorish language and dress, neither are they condemning it.

What's your opinion on Trump and his political movement. They're terrorists right they do have a leader but a leader that calls for violence against protesters and the media at his rallies. Sure he lost you when he said
"I'd like to punch him in the face, I'll tell you."
Or
"If you see somebody getting ready to throw a tomato, knock the crap out of them, would you? Seriously, OK? Just knock the hell ... I promise you I will pay for the legal fees. I promise, I promise,"

Or when.he made fun of a reporter for being disabled or when at his rallies they call for locking up political opponents while the fbi investigation said there to be neglegence but noting illegal...
Not forgetting that muslim ban in a country that claims to hold non discrimination to a high standard. Or how mexicans are perdominantly violent thughs.

But apparently being confrontational isn't really a reason for many to stop support, calling for violence or political prisoners isn't either.

So if you support Trump and think BLM is or should be labeled a terrorist organisation I'm wondering where the double standard comes from or what I'm missing.

I didn't vote for Trump nor am I supporter. I've also called him out on various topics as a step too far.

So, non-applicable comparison.

 

[Mr Tree]

The problem lies in the fact that nobody in that movement condemns them. Go back to the article I quoted.


I didn't vote for Trump nor am I supporter. I've also called him out on various topics as a step too far.

So, non-applicable comparison.

Nobody of the supporters of trump condemned these statements. I'm happy to hear you're consistent in you view about these situations. So my critique doesn't apply to you.

But I am wondering (and maybe you are too) why both these groups have the same inate issues, calling out the other group for it but not seeing they do similar things.

 

[McLaren]

Nobody of the supporters of trump condemned these statements. I'm happy to hear you're consistent in you view about these situations. So my critique doesn't apply to you.

But I am wondering (and maybe you are too) why both these groups have the same inate issues, calling out the other group for it but not seeing they do similar things.

Probably because parts of what you claim aren't completely true.
https://www.yahoo.com/news/disgrace...demn-family-separations-border-170202101.html

The travel ban is not a Muslim ban; it's already been explained out of the 10 most populated Muslim countries in the world, only Iran has a travel ban.

Subtract Iran, and that's still nearly a billion Muslims not affected from the top 10.

The reporter being made fun does have evidence that that's how he's acted towards other opponents; not necessarily right, but not something solely aimed at a disabled person.

Regardless, this isn't a Trump thread.

 

[Mr Tree]

Probably because parts of what you claim aren't completely true.
https://www.yahoo.com/news/disgrace...demn-family-separations-border-170202101.html

The travel ban is not a Muslim ban; it's already been explained out of the 10 most populated Muslim countries in the world, only Iran has a travel ban.

Subtract Iran, and that's still nearly a billion Muslims not affected from the top 10.

The reporter being made fun does have evidence that that's how he's acted towards other opponents; not necessarily right, but not something solely aimed at a disabled person.

Regardless, this isn't a Trump thread.

I didn't imply the muslim ban was all muslims and it being a muslim ban are his words. So I wasn't wrong you read into it further then needed be. (For understandable reasons)

I agree this isn't a trump thread and I'll thus not continue the conversation over here as you also don't want to completely derail this thread.

 

[Danoff]

So... BLM is definitely a hate group right?