White Privilege

[Imari]

Asking a question like that is like asking the solution for racism (or worldhunger and poverty). Starting with the youth and education is a good start, but no I dont think anyone knows of any "solution".

It's the same in that you should be able to give a general answer even if you can't give specifics.

You solve racism by teaching as many people as possible not to judge based on racial attributes and by removing racist institutions from the culture.
You solve world hunger by making sure that people in all areas have the skills, tools and time to create enough food for their community.
You solve poverty by making sure that everyone can access basic fundamental needs to survive. Admittedly that's a bit vague, but economics is weird and I'm not sure that there's a clear solution that's much more specific than that.

What general description do you give to solve white privilege? Institute harsher punishments for crime and lesser compensations for work for anyone with white attributes? Add anti-white provisions to state laws?

I get that people can't be specific about such a broad topic, but if you don't have at least a vague idea of what the world would look like without your "problem" in place, then you've got no argument for it being a problem at all. It's not a problem unless the world would be better off if it were otherwise.

 

[TenEightyOne]

What general description do you give to solve white privilege?

The exertion of actions which create the state described as White Privilege are entirely, literally to do with racism. The answer you gave to solving racism is therefore apt in this case. Some people will counter by saying "I'm not a racist!" and it has to be fully accepted that they're not - but that doesn't mean that the unconscious actions of people don't sometimes lead to situations of privilege being unintentionally created.

There are several posters in this thread who still labour under the misapprehension that White Privilege is a set of actions being undertaken entirely by white people - but it isn't. The study that I linked some pages ago is a good illustrator of that. The state of privilege (class privilege too) comes from the preconceptions of other actors in those scenes - addressing that social programming is the key to creating a state where no person is conferring any kind of privilege consciously or unconsciously based on their perception of another person's colour or class.

 

[Johnnypenso]

What is the solution to white privilege?

This presupposes that any group aquiring privilege is inherently a problem. If that is true we must first solve the "problem" of Asian privilege in the U.S. of A.

 

[novcze]

On top of that we got here through white genocide so i'm wondering who is orchestrating this genocide and with what goal?
Because you seem to say people propose this as a solution. So you're implying its a demographic change that's been put in motion by someone.

We got here through me asking for the solution to "white privilege" ... change in racial demography is one solution I can think of and @Imari came up with with good old institutional racism. What is your pick or what is your original idea?

The exertion of actions which create the state described as White Privilege are entirely, literally to do with racism. The answer you gave to solving racism is therefore apt in this case. Some people will counter by saying "I'm not a racist!" and it has to be fully accepted that they're not - but that doesn't mean that the unconscious actions of people don't sometimes lead to situations of privilege being unintentionally created.

So do white privilege advocates attacking basic biological instincts of people? Is that it? Even 3 months old infants demonstrate stong preference for their own ethnic group. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2566511/

Do you think that social programming will override biology?

 

[PocketZeven]

This presupposes that any group aquiring privilege is inherently a problem. If that is true we must first solve the "problem" of Asian privilege in the U.S. of A.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chinese_Exclusion_Act

 

[Imari]

The exertion of actions which create the state described as White Privilege are entirely, literally to do with racism. The answer you gave to solving racism is therefore apt in this case. Some people will counter by saying "I'm not a racist!" and it has to be fully accepted that they're not - but that doesn't mean that the unconscious actions of people don't sometimes lead to situations of privilege being unintentionally created.

That's my point though. Racism is the problem, not white privilege. As I've said before, the desired end goal is that everyone has the "privileges" that are currently extended to whites. You don't actually want to get rid of white privilege, you just want other people to be treated just as well. I guess it's technically not a privilege if everyone has it, but I doubt the general populace thinks of it that way.

The issue with calling white privilege the problem is that suddenly anyone who has the good fortune to be born white is part of the problem. I'm no more a fan of that than I am of labelling all men as part of the problems of rape and misogyny.

There are several posters in this thread who still labour under the misapprehension that White Privilege is a set of actions being undertaken entirely by white people - but it isn't. The study that I linked some pages ago is a good illustrator of that. The state of privilege (class privilege too) comes from the preconceptions of other actors in those scenes - addressing that social programming is the key to creating a state where no person is conferring any kind of privilege consciously or unconsciously based on their perception of another person's colour or class.

Which is neither here nor there. It's still at it's heart just societal and cultural scale racism. But how we label things matters. When you label something as a problem, the natural human response is "how do we get rid of that?"

If that problem is described as culturally engrained racism, that's great. You're looking to remove the cultural issues.
If that problem is described that white people have it better than others, that's scary. You're either looking to remove the privilege or the white people.

White Privilege is a terrible phrase that has a very specific and non-intuitive meaning within academia, and is a somewhat debatable choice even there. In public speech where people will take it at face value it would be remarkably close to hate speech if there wasn't this perception that it's somehow impossible to be racist against white people.

While there's an argument to be made that people should learn what it means and stick to that, I think at some point when you're using terms that can easily be misconstrued within the context of the discussion it just becomes a bad name. Calling it Culjerul Fliggerbonnom would be less confusing, because that has no prior meaning or baggage attached. People would just ask and get an explanation of the term. If you say white privilege, people think they know what those words mean, and it's not at all obvious that the real meaning isn't even close.

And once enough people start using the common sense intuitive "definition" of white privilege, ie. whites have it better than everyone else simply by virtue of being white, it becomes a thing. And that's not correct.

 

[PocketZeven]

That's my point though. Racism is the problem, not white privilege. As I've said before, the desired end goal is that everyone has the "privileges" that are currently extended to whites. You don't actually want to get rid of white privilege, you just want other people to be treated just as well. I guess it's technically not a privilege if everyone has it, but I doubt the general populace thinks of it that way.

The issue with calling white privilege the problem is that suddenly anyone who has the good fortune to be born white is part of the problem. I'm no more a fan of that than I am of labelling all men as part of the problems of rape and misogyny.



Which is neither here nor there. It's still at it's heart just societal and cultural scale racism. But how we label things matters. When you label something as a problem, the natural human response is "how do we get rid of that?"

If that problem is described as culturally engrained racism, that's great. You're looking to remove the cultural issues.
If that problem is described that white people have it better than others, that's scary. You're either looking to remove the privilege or the white people.

White Privilege is a terrible phrase that has a very specific and non-intuitive meaning within academia, and is a somewhat debatable choice even there. In public speech where people will take it at face value it would be remarkably close to hate speech if there wasn't this perception that it's somehow impossible to be racist against white people.

While there's an argument to be made that people should learn what it means and stick to that, I think at some point when you're using terms that can easily be misconstrued within the context of the discussion it just becomes a bad name. Calling it Culjerul Fliggerbonnom would be less confusing, because that has no prior meaning or baggage attached. People would just ask and get an explanation of the term. If you say white privilege, people think they know what those words mean, and it's not at all obvious that the real meaning isn't even close.

And once enough people start using the common sense intuitive "definition" of white privilege, ie. whites have it better than everyone else simply by virtue of being white, it becomes a thing. And that's not correct.

It isnt entirely incorrect either. In some parts of the world there is white "privilege". But you can say the same for asian, black latin etc. But while some will disagree white privilege is just more widespread then other "privileges".

 

[TenEightyOne]

The issue with calling white privilege the problem is that suddenly anyone who has the good fortune to be born white is part of the problem.

Not at all, that would only be the case if only white people unconsciously confer the privilege - they don't. Society in general (as you note) is where the problem lies.

White Privilege is a terrible phrase that has a very specific and non-intuitive meaning within academia, and is a somewhat debatable choice even there. In public speech where people will take it at face value it would be remarkably close to hate speech if there wasn't this perception that it's somehow impossible to be racist against white people....if you say white privilege, people think they know what those words mean, and it's not at all obvious that the real meaning isn't even close.

Agreed. Some of the replies in this thread illustrate that point very well.

 

[PeterJB]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chinese_Exclusion_Act

That was repealed 75 years ago.

 

[PocketZeven]

That was repealed 75 years ago.

The holocaust was 75 years ago and slavery over 150 years ago. That doesnt mean that kind of racism isnt present anymore in current times. Ask any asian in your circle of friends. Some might not experience any racism, but the majority have most definately.

 

[Exorcet]

Do you think that social programming will override biology?

I think people have been shown to be pretty adaptable. Culture/education can definitely modify human behavior and if you want to look long term, we're approaching a point where we can genetically engineer ourselves to remove faults. For the time being biology is still a major factor in our behavior but it doesn't necessarily stop us from progressing.

The holocaust was 75 years ago and slavery over 150 years ago. That doesnt mean that kind of racism isnt present anymore in current times. Ask any asian in your circle of friends. Some might not experience any racism, but the majority have most definately.

What do you mean by "that kind of racism". I'd say there was a pretty significant change if people realized that other different groups were also people and began treating them as such.

I'm still doubtful that the majority of minority groups experience racism. If they do, then almost no one around me is talking about it and people in general are extremely good at hiding it.

 

[Mr Tree]

So do white privilege advocates attacking basic biological instincts of people? Is that it? Even 3 months old infants demonstrate stong preference for their own ethnic group. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2566511/

Do you think that social programming will override biology?

Following from the results on gender preference (Quinn et al., 2002), we hypothesized that 3-month-olds would demonstrate a preference for faces from their own ethnic group based on predominant exposure to same-race faces from birth.

That's from the article you link.
So you saying it's biology is a 'corelation-causation' fallacy.

It can still be true but the current hypothesis is that it's probably due to higher exposure to the own ethnic group then it is due to biology.
Yes or biology is that the exposure to certain faces makes us more likely to 'like' those' faces but it's not nessecarilly or own ethnic group but probably the ethnic group we're exposed to the most during that stage of our life.

Edit: are you willfully doing this? You're using an awefull lot of dogwistles

 

[PocketZeven]

I think people have been shown to be pretty adaptable. Culture/education can definitely modify human behavior and if you want to look long term, we're approaching a point where we can genetically engineer ourselves to remove faults. For the time being biology is still a major factor in our behavior but it doesn't necessarily stop us from progressing.


What do you mean by "that kind of racism". I'd say there was a pretty significant change if people realized that other different groups were also people and began treating them as such.

I'm still doubtful that the majority of minority groups experience racism. If they do, then almost no one around me is talking about it and people in general are extremely good at hiding it.

They except it for what it is. Ignorance. Most of the time people dont even realise when they are hurtfull or racist. You do have to remember being a little racist is still racist. I still regularly hear something similar to ching, cheng chong behind my back. I fully understand they think they are being funny and dont mean any real harm, but it still is racist.

 

[Johnnypenso]

They except it for what it is. Ignorance. Most of the time people dont even realise when they are hurtful or racist. You do have to remember being a little racist is still racist. I still regularly here ching, cheng chong behind my back. I fully understand they think they are being funny, but it still is racist.

I beg to differ. IMO accusing someone of being racist involves a lot more than mocking or making jokes. Yes the jokes are hurtful and shouldn't be said but it isn't racism IMO until their is an overt or covert act that somehow places you at a disadvantage. To me it's on the same level as calling unwanted requests for dates sexual assault and using the same phrasing as an actual, physical assault. It muddies the line between overt racism and true race hatred and acts committed through ignorance or lack of a few brain cells by someone who would not actually treat anyone differently because of the colour of their skin or ethnicity.

By your definition I'm a racist. I can sympathize with Derek Daly's predicament in using the "n" word 35 years ago in that he claimed he came from a different culture and had no idea it wasn't offensive until it was pointed out to him. When I was a kid growing up we used to play tag and hide and go seek a lot. A half dozen or dozen of us or more would gather in a circle and put our feet in a big circle and someone would do the "Eenie, meenie, mighty, moe, catch a "n" by the toe", chant to find out who is "it". I said it, everyone else said it, and I never knew it was anything bad because everyone did it. It was just a word to me and everyone else. We didn't even know a black kid back then, there were none at my public school at all. My gf is Filipino and her and I both make fun of the way we talk and our usage of particular words and phrases and our mispronunciations. She thinks it's hilarious when I mispronounce Filipino words and phrases and likes me to demonstrate my inability in front of her family and friends. Is she a racist too?

 

[PocketZeven]

I beg to differ. IMO accusing someone of being racist involves a lot more than mocking or making jokes. Yes the jokes are hurtful and shouldn't be said but it isn't racism IMO until their is an overt or covert act that somehow places you at a disadvantage. To me it's on the same level as calling unwanted requests for dates sexual assault and using the same phrasing as an actual, physical assault. It muddies the line between overt racism and true race hatred and acts committed through ignorance or lack of a few brain cells by someone who would not actually treat anyone differently because of the colour of their skin or ethnicity.

By your definition I'm a racist. I can sympathize with Derek Daly's predicament in using the "n" word 35 years ago in that he claimed he came from a different culture and had no idea it wasn't offensive until it was pointed out to him. When I was a kid growing up we used to play tag and hide and go seek a lot. A half dozen or dozen of us or more would gather in a circle and put our feet in a big circle and someone would do the "Eenie, meenie, mighty, moe, catch a "n" by the toe", chant to find out who is "it". I said it, everyone else said it, and I never knew it was anything bad because everyone did it. It was just a word to me and everyone else. We didn't even know a black kid back then, there were none at my public school at all. My gf is Filipino and her and I both make fun of the way we talk and our usage of particular words and phrases and our mispronunciations. She thinks it's hilarious when I mispronounce Filipino words and phrases and likes me to demonstrate my inability in front of her family and friends. Is she a racist too?

It still is (a little) racist. The problem with a word like racist you cant say how much racist it is. But I agree just making a small joke about someones ethnicity is not the same thing as wanting racial genocide. But ask your GF if its hurtfull when people make "funny" jokes about her ethnicity. Philipino's are also discriminated in Asia for different reasons.

 

[novcze]

It can still be true but the current hypothesis is that it's probably due to higher exposure to the own ethnic group then it is due to biology.
Yes or biology is that the exposure to certain faces makes us more likely to 'like' those' faces but it's not nessecarilly or own ethnic group but probably the ethnic group we're exposed to the most during that stage of our life.

It doesn't really matter if you call it biology or evolution or experience ... point is that some people think they can change unconscious part of it via social programming. I can learn not to discriminate people but can social programming change my unconscious preference for certain type of people (and I'm not talking about skin color now)?

 

[PocketZeven]

It doesn't really matter if you call it biology or evolution or experience ... point is that some people think they can change unconscious part of it via social programming. I can learn not to discriminate people but can social programming change my unconscious preference for certain type of people (and I'm not talking about skin color now)?

I agree with your comment. People will always have a bias toward people who look similar to themselves or attractive people. But the larger issue lies when people find one ethnicity/relegion/country superior to another. That is when people should conciously try to treat people not for how they look, but for who they are.

edit: corrected how to who

 

[Johnnypenso]

It still is (a littl.e) racist. The problem with a word like racist you cant say how much racist it is. But I agree just making a small joke about someones ethnicity is not the same thing as wanting racial genocide. But ask your GF if its hurtfull when people make "funny" jokes about her ethnicity. Philipino's are also discriminated in Asia for different reasons.

We have talked about it and the best way to put it is she's a very rational, practical minded person not prone to emotional responses to the smaller things in life. Her attitude is that anyone who thinks that way is an idiot and not worth wasting emotion over so she doesn't. On the other hand she could probably count on one hand the number of times she's heard anything remotely close to racist in the 25+ years she's been here. I'm not so sure I would be so diplomatic about it were it to happen in my presence but here in Canada it's not likely. I've been in mixed ethnic/race relationships off and on since I was 17 and I've never heard anyone say anything even close to racist in my presence. In many neighbourhoods in the bigger Canadian cities and tourist hotspots my pale skin is the minority.

 

[PocketZeven]

We have talked about it and the best way to put it is she's a very rational, practical minded person not prone to emotional responses to the smaller things in life. Her attitude is that anyone who thinks that way is an idiot and not worth wasting emotion over so she doesn't. On the other hand she could probably count on one hand the number of times she's heard anything remotely close to racist in the 25+ years she's been here. I'm not so sure I would be so diplomatic about it were it to happen in my presence but here in Canada it's not likely. I've been in mixed ethnic/race relationships off and on since I was 17 and I've never heard anyone say anything even close to racist in my presence. In many neighbourhoods in the bigger Canadian cities and tourist hotspots my pale skin is the minority.

So you didnt ask her? I am confident to say it is far and far more then one hand in 25+ years. I salute your girlfriend for having a thick skin, but that doesnt make the people who make those jokes less racist.

the only reason people dont make those jokes around me is because I tend to call people out on it. I know lots of people who try to ignore it and it eats their self confidence. My way to deal with it is just take on the biggest "bully" then they will learn to respect you.

 

[Johnnypenso]

So you didnt ask her?

Errr....

We have talked about it...

I am confident to say it is far and far more then one hand in 25+ years. I salute your girlfriend for having a thick skin, but that doesnt make the people who make those jokes less racist.

And I am confident you are wrong. I have 30+ years of experience, an interracial marriage, a bi-racial child, all kinds of mixed family so I know of that which I speak. It's my personal experience of course, others may differ. Canada is a very multi-cultural society. It's very difficult to be a racist here in the places I have lived and frequented because you have to deal with people from all over the world on a daily basis. In my work I often deal with 5-10 customers a day which often means 15-30 people when you include landlords and tenants, supervisors, managers etc. I routinely interact with Muslims, Jews, Africans, people from the near and far East, older first generation immigrants from Europe, the odd Mexican or South American, black people born here and in the U.S. etc. Being a racist would drive you insane if you work at all with the public here and over time, through personal interactions I think it just goes away. I don't know of a single person I'd consider a racist nor can I recall the last time I saw or heard anything overtly racist.

 

[PocketZeven]

Errr....



And I am confident you are wrong. I have 30+ years of experience, an interracial marriage, a bi-racial child, all kinds of mixed family so I know of that which I speak. It's my personal experience of course, others may differ. Canada is a very multi-cultural society. It's very difficult to be a racist here in the places I have lived and frequented because you have to deal with people from all over the world on a daily basis. In my work I often deal with 5-10 customers a day which often means 15-30 people when you include landlords and tenants, supervisors, managers etc. I routinely interact with Muslims, Jews, Africans, people from the near and far East, older first generation immigrants from Europe, the odd Mexican or South American, black people born here and in the U.S. etc. Being a racist would drive you insane if you work at all with the public here and over time, through personal interactions I think it just goes away. I don't know of a single person I'd consider a racist nor can I recall the last time I saw or heard anything overtly racist.

I live in the Netherlands and being a minority still see/hear it often. the Netherlands is known for being multicultural and tolerant. It isnt as blunt as some people, but like i said a little racist is still racist.

Because you dont perceive it, doesnt mean that it isnt there.

 

[Danoff]

White Privilege is a terrible phrase that has a very specific and non-intuitive meaning within academia, and is a somewhat debatable choice even there.

Totally agree and I'll add that I think the problem is the term "white" and the term "privilege".

As we have already discussed at length, "white" is a very nebulous concept that has no hard and fast rules. The term "privilege" is problematic too, because it's getting misused here. It's not my privilege to not be murdered, that's something I should expect from the people around me. If I were murdered it would be a misfortune, not a lack of privilege. Similarly some people might consider it to be a privilege of mine to have been taught how to read by my parents and teachers. But while literacy might have been a lofty or even impossible goal at one point in human history, it would be abusive to raise a child illiterate given what we now know about the brain and what is needed for being functional in human society today.

I was not "privileged" to receive nutrition as a child, I was merely not the victim of child abuse.

So while it might be appropriate to refer to a child raised in an affluent setting as "privileged" (I would argue you'd need to know a lot more about that child's environment than affluence), it would not be appropriate to refer to someone whose skin color presumably shields them from social violence or humiliation as privileged.

White privilege would be more appropriately turned back around and named "disadvantaged by discrimination".

@TenEightyOne

 

[Johnnypenso]

I live in the Netherlands and being a minority still see/hear it often. the Netherlands is known for being multicultural and tolerant. It isnt as blunt as some people, but like i said a little racist is still racist.

Because you dont perceive it, doesnt mean that it isnt there.

I'd never say it wasn't there, I only said it's not pervasive. There will always be anecdotes of racism, with 30+ million people it's bound to happen. But I suppose all the dozens of family members and friends I've known that were not native Canucks could all be lying.

 

[PocketZeven]

I'd never say it wasn't there, I only said it's not pervasive. There will always be anecdotes of racism, with 30+ million people it's bound to happen. But I suppose all the dozens of family members and friends I've known that were not native Canucks could all be lying.

They arent lying. I perhaps phrased it incorrectly and should have added some nuance. The instances of racism your friends/family encounter are perhaps just so small they consider it negligilble. But I am certain if you speak with them directly about the subject, they might open up about it.

 

[Johnnypenso]

They arent lying. I perhaps phrased it incorrectly and should have added some nuance. The instances of racism your friends/family encounter are perhaps just so small they consider it negligilble. But I am certain if you speak with them directly about the subject, they might open up about it.

It's funny that you don't think I've spoken to them directly. I'm not discounting your experience, I'm sure you've had as rough a time as you say you have, I'm just sharing that mine has been different and those immigrants from different ethnic backgrounds, languages, culture and skin colour that I've known and some that are family members, have indeed found the amount of racism they've encountered here quite negligible. I don't presume to know what it's like in the Netherlands or even Montreal for that matter as I've never spent any time there.

 

[Imari]

They arent lying. I perhaps phrased it incorrectly and should have added some nuance. The instances of racism your friends/family encounter are perhaps just so small they consider it negligilble. But I am certain if you speak with them directly about the subject, they might open up about it.

Why do you keep assuming that there's something about his life experience that he's failing to perceive just because it's different to yours? You're on the other side of the world. The two of you are on the internet. If he says "this is my experience", it's really quite rude to say "well, you just must not have talked to your family and close friends properly".

 

[Mr Tree]

It doesn't really matter if you call it biology or evolution or experience ... point is that some people think they can change unconscious part of it via social programming. I can learn not to discriminate people but can social programming change my unconscious preference for certain type of people (and I'm not talking about skin color now)?

If it's not biologically engrained it means it's a 'habit', a process of aclimatisation or sociolisation and habit or socialisatio can be changed. It's even helpfull, some addictions are habits these habits are best to be countered to be a healty person. If it's biological it wouldn't be possible.

You're acting as if it's set in stone which it is not if we assume the current hypothesis is correct.

And if this preference can.be trained put then yes it should be trained out of people. Defenitly in certain occupations like lawenforcement and the judiciary system. Or do you think it's correct to have people arrested and charged on a higher rate do to their etnicity?

I live in the Netherlands and being a minority still see/hear it often. the Netherlands is known for being multicultural and tolerant. It isnt as blunt as some people, but like i said a little racist is still racist.

Because you dont perceive it, doesnt mean that it isnt there.

Seriously europe is very good in living in the shadow of world powers. Acting all nice and dandy as if we're a multicultural utopia. My personal experience is that belgians and I'm geussing the dutch too are overtly rascist and yet don't like to be labeled as one.

My father gets mad when people call him a rascist. But he also openly says black people only move here because they're lazy and can use the public services. So blacks are lazy but he's not rascist for saying that.
When a crime is reported in the papers they're not allowed to tell anything about the person, general response 'must have been a black guy, else they'd say more about the suspect'. When a hatecrime is commited it's glossed over by the general public with 'well if the government does nothing, we have to'

I'm telling you either I'm living in a rzscist ******** or the average flemish person is a rascist that doesn't want to be labeled as one.

 

[novcze]

. But the larger issue lies when people find one ethnicity/relegion/country superior to another. That is when people should conciously try to treat people not for how they look, but for who they are.

Yes, but this is plain racism that people should be able to consciously avoid. Point is when privilege can be created even unconsciously, what are the chances that we ever achieve equal status?

Of course, one could say this never ending struggle is convenient for some parties ...

 

[Mr Tree]

Yes, but this is plain racism that people should be able to consciously avoid. Point is when privilege can be created even unconsciously, what are the chances that we ever achieve equal status?

Of course, one could say this never ending struggle is convenient for some parties ...

We choose to try and better ourself not because it is easy, but because it is hard.
(Changed a JFK qoute)

Well even in perfection is never achieved it's a goal worth working towards. Imo the option of letting go because 'true' equality, whatever that may mean, is impossible is a lazy way out.
Our unconscious mind is made up in part by our surroundings. So changing bit by bit may even remove some of the unfair unconscious biases we hold.

This is why the differentiation I made between habits/sociolisation and biology is as important. If it where properties engrained in us (biological) we wouldn't be able to change. When it's due to sociolisation it's not engrained in our dna to hald these biases and we can change these things for the better.

 

[PocketZeven]

Why do you keep assuming that there's something about his life experience that he's failing to perceive just because it's different to yours? You're on the other side of the world. The two of you are on the internet. If he says "this is my experience", it's really quite rude to say "well, you just must not have talked to your family and close friends properly".

I already rephrased it and it wasnt meant to be rude. He was talking about family/friends who are not white. And I am actually 100% sure they would agree with my statement. I was just pointing out that subtle racism is part of the larger problem. Making a joke that asians cant drive, or black people like chicken and waffles, south east asians/south americans are a bit lazy are all examples of subtle racism. that doesnt mean that these people are full on racists. Sometimes the look on someones face when they meet a certain ethnicity already tells a lot. This is still racism. People who are not of the dominant ethnicity sometimes wont understand what I am talking about. On the flipside "white"people who work/live in for example China experience the exact same thing. White people are always called white ghosts and black people are called black ghosts. This is still racism. In former chinese/hongkong cinema the white/black people were almost always typecasted as villains. Recently though they seem to collobarate a lot more in the movie business and you see a lot less typecasting in chinese/hk cinema.

I was just encouraging a conversation about the topic with your own friends/family of a different ethnicity. That even though one thinks there is a lack of racism when you perceive it, there most probably still is. It just isnt as blatant to bother sharing or talking about.