White Privilege

[Northstar]

Any cost incurred will be more than made up by the economic advancement of the black families and the reduction in crime.

I'm guessing you don't talk to many farmers?

Not to mention that giving someone land and a tractor doesn't make them a farmer anymore than giving me a patient and a scalpel makes me a surgeon.

 

[Dotini]

I'm guessing you don't talk to many farmers?

Not to mention that giving someone land and a tractor doesn't make them a farmer anymore than giving me a patient and a scalpel makes me a surgeon.

It is to laugh. People have been farming for over 10,000 years. It's not surgery or rocket science. I would preferentially license them to grow marijuana and hemp and use the land in any way they saw fit. They would have federal advisors and volunteer assistance. But they couldn't sell the land. If they failed to be productive and abandoned it, it would go to the next available black family.

 

[Northstar]

People have been farming for over 10,000 years.

There's quite a few industries that have been around for a very long time (surgery, the example I used, being one of them), very few are the exact same as they were back than though. Modern farming is far more complex than it was when the slaves should have received their land and mules. Expecting anyone to just be able to move into an area and instantly become profitable will just lead to more problems than there currently are.

They would have federal advisors and volunteer assistance. But they couldn't sell the land. If they failed to be productive and abandoned it, it would go to the next available black family.

So... you want to bring back sharecropping?

 

[Dotini]

There's quite a few industries that have been around for a very long time (surgery, the example I used, being one of them), very few are the exact same as they were back than though. Modern farming is far more complex than it was when the slaves should have received their land and mules. Expecting anyone to just be able to move into an area and instantly become profitable will just lead to more problems than there currently are.



So... you want to bring back sharecropping?

Your objections, while noted, are unavailing. Next?

Note to all liberals, leftists, antifascists and Democrats: Please give all my posts in this thread a Like. 💡

 

[VFOURMAX1]

IMO, the reparation should hew as closely as possible to the original promise. Here it is: https://www.pbs.org/wnet/african-am...history/the-truth-behind-40-acres-and-a-mule/

In the article you linked I did not see any reference to where such order was voted on and approved by congress nor where the president of the nation signed such an order after the approval of congress. The article say's that Lincoln approved it but that is one version of the story.

Another version is below,
"The orders were issued following Sherman's March to the Sea. They were intended to address the immediate problem of dealing with the tens of thousands of African refugees who had joined Sherman's march in search of protection and sustenance, and "to assure the harmony of action in the area of operations".[3] His intention was for the order to be a temporary measure to address an immediate problem, and not to grant permanent ownership of the land to the freedmen, although most of the recipients assumed otherwise.[4] General Sherman issued his orders four days after meeting in Savannah, Georgia with twenty local African ministers and lay leaders and with U.S. Secretary of War Edwin M. Stanton. Brig. Gen. Rufus Saxton, an abolitionist from Massachusetts who had previously organized the recruitment of African soldiers for the Union Army, was put in charge of implementing the orders.[5]

The orders had little concrete effect, and President Andrew Johnson issued a proclamation that returned the lands to southern owners that took a loyalty oath"

Take note of the "His intention was for the order to be a temporary measure to address an immediate problem, and not to grant permanent ownership of the land to the freedmen,".

I do not see proof that this order was valid and legal to begin with and taken through the proper channels of government to be a legal binding order from the outset.

 

[Famine]

It is to laugh. People have been farming for over 10,000 years. It's not surgery or rocket science. I would preferentially license them to grow marijuana and hemp and use the land in any way they saw fit. They would have federal advisors and volunteer assistance. But they couldn't sell the land. If they failed to be productive and abandoned it, it would go to the next available black family.

Have you heard of Zimbabwe at all?

 

[Dotini]

In the article you linked I did not see any reference to where such order was voted on and approved by congress nor where the president of the nation signed such an order after the approval of congress. The article say's that Lincoln approved it but that is one version of the story.

Another version is below,
"The orders were issued following Sherman's March to the Sea. They were intended to address the immediate problem of dealing with the tens of thousands of African refugees who had joined Sherman's march in search of protection and sustenance, and "to assure the harmony of action in the area of operations".[3] His intention was for the order to be a temporary measure to address an immediate problem, and not to grant permanent ownership of the land to the freedmen, although most of the recipients assumed otherwise.[4] General Sherman issued his orders four days after meeting in Savannah, Georgia with twenty local African ministers and lay leaders and with U.S. Secretary of War Edwin M. Stanton. Brig. Gen. Rufus Saxton, an abolitionist from Massachusetts who had previously organized the recruitment of African soldiers for the Union Army, was put in charge of implementing the orders.[5]

The orders had little concrete effect, and President Andrew Johnson issued a proclamation that returned the lands to southern owners that took a loyalty oath"

Take note of the "His intention was for the order to be a temporary measure to address an immediate problem, and not to grant permanent ownership of the land to the freedmen,".

I do not see proof that this order was valid and legal to begin with and taken through the proper channels of government to be a legal binding order from the outset.

That's a reasonable objection. I would have Congress act upon it forthwith.

 

[zzz_pt]

Have you heard of Zimbabwe at all?

Came to post that.

And some South African policies to do pretty much the same (give farm lands to black people), also with dire results.

 

[Dotini]

Came to post that.

And some South African policies to do pretty much the same (give farm lands to black people), also with dire results.

Oh boy. Zimbabwe. Colonized by the British South Africa Company and a Commonwealth nation. That explains a lot.

I listen to BBC radio jibber-jabbering about the problems there at least once a week.

Is there anywhere in the world white people have gone where they haven't messed up the natives? More is owed than can ever be repaid.

 

[ryzno]

 

[Danoff]

I don't give a fig about what you said. My plan is the just, fair and right thing to do.

To whom?

A promise is a promise.

To whom?

Virtue is its own reward.

What is virtuous here?

Any cost incurred will be more than made up by the economic advancement of the black families and the reduction in crime.

Ah, socialism.

Is there anywhere in the world white people have gone where they haven't messed up the natives? More is owed than can ever be repaid.

Who owes? To whom?

You appear to be implying that people the share the skin color of people who have owned slaves owe people who share the skin color of people who were slaves. That's some serious racist nonsense in the name of stopping racism.

 

[PeterJB]

Zimbabwe was doing far better under the British model than it is under Mugabe's model.

 

[VFOURMAX1]

Is there anywhere in the world white people have gone where they haven't messed up the natives?

Can you please show me one country that is led and governed by blacks and has a majority black population that would be considered a first world country and economy on a worldwide scale?
Then do the same with white run and governed countries with majority white populations then lets discuss which model apparently is superior or which race between the two seem to have a better grasp on making a country be a successful place people want to live.

 

[Dotini]

To whom?



To whom?



What is virtuous here?



Ah, socialism.



Who owes? To whom?

You appear to be implying that people the share the skin color of people who have owned slaves owe people who share the skin color of people who were slaves. That's some serious racist nonsense in the name of stopping racism.

As far as I am concerned, your post is rendered defective and unanswerable due to WAY too many multi quotes. Cut the fat, ask one good question and you'll get an answer from me. Otherwise, no nipple for you.

Can you please show me one country that is led and governed by blacks and has a majority black population that would be considered a first world country and economy on a worldwide scale?
Then do the same with white run and governed countries with majority white populations then lets discuss which model apparently is superior or which race between the two seem to have a better grasp on making a country be a successful place people want to live.

No.

 

[PocketZeven]

Just like I brought up a local school system that for the 2018 school year the SOL test scores the black students in the school scored way lower even though they had the same school, same teachers and same classes as the students of other races. So the opportunity is the same so why are their scores lower?

Want to blame the teachers? Want to blame their school is not as good? Or do you blame the ones actually responsible the black students that failed to make the scores?

Society cannot continue to blame everyone else for the lack of progress and advancement of the black race in this country. Plenty of other races come to this country and seem to find ample success within fairly short time frames. But many of the blacks still struggle to even meet minimum levels to advance even after 50 years of social programs to help in that very task.
Most ghetto areas are inhabited by blacks and many of these areas were nice areas until they took over the areas. Ever notice that some of the worse places in our country are run by blacks? Is that surprising?

Yes there are problems but the what is needed to fix that problem is a mirror for those that continue to fail and move forward for decades can look into and see they are not only the problem but the solution. The other races cannot fix their internal problems that continually are holding them back. They have had the helping hand for 50 years now it is time to poop or get off the pot.

THE LAST HALF A CENTURY has proven handouts are not the solution.

Wow I didnt expect that. Black people did not take over area's, but where strategically placed in area's. This is already common knowledge Also the lower scores among black students in your example does not factor in other area's like their private situation, the education levels of their parents etc. that could be relevant. People that live in poor area's generally score low and in rich area's higher. Does that mean they were born smart or stupid? Socio economic background is immensely important in how a child performs academically. If a family struggles with finances a lot at home for example, the student will have less time or concentration to study. A student in a wealthy, happy or structured home will have more time and concentration to excel.

Ofcourse there are people to blame! The slave-owners, the ones who enforced jim crow laws, the people who continue to view black people as lesser people.

How do you know the 50 years of social programs have not helped? What data are you basing that conclusion on? Do you view black people as less intelligent or less motivated?

You cant conclude the places are worse because they are run by blacks. You must consider there are situations they were poorly run and then they elected a black official.

What does poop or get off the pot mean? Just leave these people in poverty?

Victimhood and racism. I explained this to you. I'm getting the feeling that you're not listening.



Start by refusing to promote victimhood (the opposite of what is happening now), and let racism die with old people.

I really do, but you believe that reparations are not warranted at all. The USA backtracked on a promise, that ultimately created a wealth gap. Shouldnt there be an effort to fix that at all?

I guess we agree on something there. I do want to know another example of victimhood that should be avoided? I kind of know what you mean, but not sure.

 

[Famine]

Oh boy. Zimbabwe. Colonized by the British South Africa Company and a Commonwealth nation. That explains a lot.

It also forcibly removed white farmers from their land and gave it to black families - exactly what you're proposing - to redress the wrongs of the colonial era.

Apparently Zimbabwe, or its lunatic genocidal leader Robert Mugabe, felt just as you do that farming isn't rocket science, and the black farmers would just keep things going as they were, just with the right colour people doing it.

It turned out that farming, like a lot of other jobs, requires quite a bit of specialist knowledge and money. The farms failed and Zimbabwe was plunged into... well, me. Farm output fell to 20% or less of its pre-2000 levels. Along with crippling food shortages, Zimbabwe's coffee crops - a major export - were completely destroyed. The economy tanked into hyperinflation and the government started to beg white farmers to return.

Giving farms to people who can't farm is dense.

I listen to BBC radio jibber-jabbering about the problems there at least once a week.

Still keeping tabs on the perfidious Albion after swearing off it so long since?

As far as I am concerned, your post is rendered defective and unanswerable due to WAY too many multi quotes. Cut the fat, ask one good question and you'll get an answer from me. Otherwise, no nipple for you.

There's 14 words - none over eight letters - and five good questions, before a two-line payoff. Compared to the usual post from you which contains rambling paragraphs of Park Life and no conclusion, it's a surgeon's knife of a post.

But keep dodging by all means. And if you're lactating, see a doctor.

 

[Dotini]

The USA backtracked on a promise, that ultimately created a wealth gap. Shouldnt there be an effort to fix that at all?

Yes, but your justification of fixing a wealth gap is extremely weak. The better reason/excuse for reparation is to address the profound national embarrassment and danger of inner city squalor, murder and drug addiction. It is the failure by suicide of a population that needs to be lifted up. They are a population of hopelessness. The only thing that can save them is not a handout, but meaning and purpose. They need a path to self-sufficiency and dignity; land and meaningful work is what we can give them. As promised.

 

[Rallywagon]

 

[VFOURMAX1]

Wow I didnt expect that. Black people did not take over area's, but where strategically placed in area's.

Strategically placed! lol! Black people generally seem to take over areas that the whites are leaving whether to move to the suburbs or perhaps better job opportunities and/ or better/newer infrastructure.
Blacks can move to those same areas or they can move to the areas the whites have moved out of. They have the freedom of choice just like every other race of people in this country, they are not put on a reservation as you try to make out.

Also the lower scores among black students in your example does not factor in other area's like their private situation, the education levels of their parents etc. that could be relevant.

And you want to put the blame on other races and make it their responsibility. We are over a half a century beyond the passing of the civil rights act in this country so it is about time that these people take the full responsibility for their own lack of performance or moving forward in wealth and prosperity.

How do you know the 50 years of social programs have not helped?

We are having this conversation a half a century after affirmative action programs were instituted.

You cant conclude the places are worse because they are run by blacks.

I do not have to conclude, I can look at the demographic makeup of the leaders and populations of multiple locations and the numbers dictate that the worse performing and the highest crime and murder rates in the country fall under that category within this country. That is not based on conjecture but the statistical facts released by the DOJ and the FBI.

What does poop or get off the pot mean? Just leave these people in poverty?

The same opportunity is available to all people regardless of race, sex or religion in this country, that does not exclude blacks. Why does it seem that ALL OF THE OTHER races in this country do well but the black race even though they have actually been given certain advantages for the last 50+ years through affirmative action still in great numbers fail to better their situation?

The USA backtracked on a promise,

Seems to be a controversy whether the promise was made that made it legally binding for the first point. Second point was whether the persons that may have made such promises had the actual legal authority to do so. Apparently the government back then did not think so and why would that change in today's times after all that were affected are long since deceased?

They need a path to self-sufficiency and dignity, and land and meaningful work is what we can give them.

That has been available for over 50 years, you can lead a horse to water but you cannot make him drink. The opportunity is there for anyone in this country and race is not the factor but the motivation and desire and the EFFORT put out to succeed is more of a deciding factor.

There are a lot of blacks in this country that are very successful and they are still members of the black race so the opportunity is there. Perhaps those not doing so well should look at the blacks that have done well and follow in their footsteps instead of playing the I am a victim card.

 

[Joey D]

Well then, some of the posts in the past few pages might just be some of the most racist stuff I've read on this site in a long time. Feels like I'm looking at a Facebook news feed.

There are vast sections of South Dakota, Montana, Idaho, Wyoming, Utah, Colorado, Arizona and New Mexico which are currently federal lands

You're not farming much, if anything, on the federally owned land in those states. While I can't speak for all of them, I can tell you first hand that Utah is essentially a dry and desolate wasteland outside the already built-up areas. Also, vast parts of Northern Utah are more or less just a bunch of salt.

 

[Danoff]

Can you please show me one country that is led and governed by blacks

Is there anywhere in the world white people have gone where they haven't messed up the natives? More is owed than can ever be repaid.

Then do the same with white run and governed countries with majority white populations then lets discuss which model apparently is superior or which race between the two seem to have a better grasp on making a country be a successful place people want to live.

Yes, but your justification of fixing a wealth gap is extremely weak. The better reason/excuse for reparation is to address the profound national embarrassment and danger of inner city squalor, murder and drug addiction. It is the failure by suicide of a population that needs to be lifted up. They are a population of hopelessness. The only thing that can save them is not a handout, but meaning and purpose. They need a path to self-sufficiency and dignity; land and meaningful work is what we can give them. As promised.

Strategically placed! lol! Black people generally seem to take over areas that the whites are leaving whether to move to the suburbs or perhaps better job opportunities and/ or better/newer infrastructure.
Blacks can move to those same areas or they can move to the areas the whites have moved out of. They have the freedom of choice just like every other race of people in this country, they are not put on a reservation as you try to make out.

And you want to put the blame on other races and make it their responsibility. We are over a half a century beyond the passing of the civil rights act in this country so it is about time that these people take the full responsibility for their own lack of performance or moving forward in wealth and prosperity.


We are having this conversation a half a century after affirmative action programs were instituted.

I do not have to conclude, I can look at the demographic makeup of the leaders and populations of multiple locations and the numbers dictate that the worse performing and the highest crime and murder rates in the country fall under that category within this country. That is not based on conjecture but the statistical facts released by the DOJ and the FBI.


The same opportunity is available to all people regardless of race, sex or religion in this country, that does not exclude blacks. Why does it seem that ALL OF THE OTHER races in this country do well but the black race even though they have actually been given certain advantages for the last 50+ years through affirmative action still in great numbers fail to better their situation?

As far as I am concerned, your post is rendered defective and unanswerable due to WAY too many multi quotes. Cut the fat, ask one good question and you'll get an answer from me. Otherwise, no nipple for you.

that's ok Dotini, we know you're not interested in a discussion.

I really do, but you believe that reparations are not warranted at all.

I'm all in favor of paying reparations to ex-slaves. We just can't anymore.

The USA backtracked on a promise, that ultimately created a wealth gap. Shouldnt there be an effort to fix that at all?

The people of today are not owed what their grandparents were owed. I don't know how to make that any more clear. You are not your familial lineage. You are not your characteristics, you are not your shared genes.

If there are wrongdoings today, we address those.

 

[VFOURMAX1]

and has a majority black population that would be considered a first world country and economy on a worldwide scale?

@Danoff Seems your quoting me and and your answer of posting a picture of Obama left off a huge part of the original message which is above and would make your response incorrect to the original question.

Why is a statement that states facts or makes the statement that the black race has the same opportunities, can live or move to the same areas as any other race (including whites) and should take personal responsibility for their success or failures as is expected for every other race in this country Racist?

 

[Danoff]

@Danoff Seems your quoting me and and your answer of posting a picture of Obama left off a huge part of the original message which is above and would make your response incorrect to the original question.

I know. I didn't try to answer the original question, just pointing out how nonsensical the question was.

Why is a statement that states facts or makes the statement that the black race has the same opportunities, can live or move to the same areas as any other race (including whites) and should take personal responsibility for their success or failures as is expected for every other race in this country Racist?

I'm not... sure... that that statement, the one you phrased right there, is necessarily racist. It's very broad brush... a "race" doesn't have opportunities, individuals do. A "race" cannot take personal responsibility, or be successful, or fail, individuals can. You're at the very edge of racism with the above quote, but I wouldn't have called it out as racism. I'll highlight some racist bits from my earlier quotes since you don't see it.

Then do the same with white run and governed countries with majority white populations then lets discuss which model apparently is superior or which race between the two seem to have a better grasp on making a country be a successful place people want to live.

This whole thing. ^^ All of it is racist. Let's compare statistics for groups of people with common skin colors and see which is superior? Holy crap. It ignores sooooooooooooo much, but also makes underlying assumptions about other characteristics (like competency for starters) being tied to race. You could get statistical differences out of that analysis and still have an impossible time tying it to race.

You've got reparations to make for that statement alone. Let's go on.

Black people generally seem to take over areas that the whites are leaving

What's this? An entire "race" of people has a particular tendency based on what an entire "race" of other people are doing? "Take over"? Also, honestly, even if you could find a statistical correlation, you'd be hard pressed to figure out who is leaving and why. For all you know, some racist people decide to leave an area because people of another skin color move in.

And you want to put the blame on other races and make it their responsibility. We are over a half a century beyond the passing of the civil rights act in this country so it is about time that these people take the full responsibility for their own lack of performance or moving forward in wealth and prosperity.

I think that's enough to make the point.

 

[Joey D]

Why is a statement that states facts or makes the statement that the black race has the same opportunities, can live or move to the same areas as any other race (including whites) and should take personal responsibility for their success or failures as is expected for every other race in this country Racist?

Saying blacks move into an area and essentially ruin it is pretty blatant racism (same goes for Dontini saying whites ruin a place too).

 

[PocketZeven]

I visited this castle today :

View attachment 845306

The brick walls of that thing aren't as thick as the one I'm seeing in this thread.

Kasteel de Haar been there many times.

 

[VFOURMAX1]

What's this? An entire "race" of people has a particular tendency based on what an entire "race" of other people are doing? "Take over"? Also, honestly, even if you could find a statistical correlation, you'd be hard pressed to figure out who is leaving and why. For all you know, some racist people decide to leave an area because people of another skin color move in.

but where strategically placed in area's.

Better wording would have been move into. My response was to say more that black people were not placed anywhere but moved where they wanted to. I will say that many neighborhoods that today are black in a local city that 40 years ago were white neighborhoods and the blacks moved in as the whites moved out of the city into the suburbs in the surrounding counties. Due to that migration the local city residential population has risen from about 15% black 50 years ago to about 45% black today. That same city is also suffering much higher economic problems and crime rate statistics than any time in its history. The city police force cannot retain officers as after getting a bit of training and experience the officers go to work for the county departments making better money and having better working conditions.
Again I just state the facts as I see them, not trying to be racist just realistic to the conditions.

I think that's enough to make the point.

This whole thing. ^^ All of it is racist. Let's compare statistics for groups of people with common skin colors and see which is superior? Holy crap. It ignores sooooooooooooo much, but also makes underlying assumptions about other characteristics (like competency for starters) being tied to race. You could get statistical differences out of that analysis and still have an impossible time tying it to race.

You've got reparations to make for that statement alone. Let's go on.

When the statistics for a subject matter consistently bring one grouping of people as to the majority relating to the subject if such facts were stating positive results then it would not be racist talk for certain groups but lauded as progress and moving forward. But bring up facts that are not of a positive nature but rather negative backed by factual information and numbers against this same group of people then you are a racist.

When the same opportunities are available to all across the board excuses should not be made for any individual group of people regardless of their skin color or race. Now again how is holding all groups of people to the exact same standards racist? I am not racist in the fact a level playing field is what our laws deliver to all, now lets all play to the same rules and standards not giving special treatment or advantage to any one group. That is about as colorblind to skin color or race as you can possibly be.

 

[Danoff]

Better wording would have been move into. My response was to say more that black people were not placed anywhere but moved where they wanted to. I will say that many neighborhoods that today are black in a local city that 40 years ago were white neighborhoods and the blacks moved in as the whites moved out of the city into the suburbs in the surrounding counties. Due to that migration the local city residential population has risen from about 15% black 50 years ago to about 45% black today. That same city is also suffering much higher economic problems and crime rate statistics than any time in its history. The city police force cannot retain officers as after getting a bit of training and experience the officers go to work for the county departments making better money and having better working conditions.
Again I just state the facts as I see them, not trying to be racist just realistic to the conditions.

Why are you stating these things next to each other? You're trying to tie together a cause and effect. Black people = crime and economic problems. That's the inference. It wasn't so much inferred before, it was more explicit. Here you're trying to hide what you were making explicit a moment ago as inference. You're not on statistical solid ground here either. You're taking two things and trying to correlate them without correlating data. Tons of other variables are at play.

When the statistics for a subject matter consistently bring one grouping of people as to the majority relating to the subject if such facts were stating positive results then it would not be racist talk for certain groups but lauded as progress and moving forward. But bring up facts that are not of a positive nature but rather negative backed by factual information and numbers against this same group of people then you are a racist.

I know you'd like to think that but no. The part where you said that white people make places better to live is also racist.

When the same opportunities are available to all across the board excuses should not be made for any individual group of people regardless of their skin color or race. Now again how is holding all groups of people to the exact same standards racist?

Nope. You're trying to strawman my previous statement.

I am not racist

You're saying racist stuff... I'm not sure what the threshold is for "saying racist stuff" before you become "a racist".

in the fact a level playing field is what our laws deliver to all, now lets all play to the same rules and standards not giving special treatment or advantage to any one group. That is about a colorblind to skin color or race as you can possibly be.

That's not what I'm calling racist.

 

[PocketZeven]

that's ok Dotini, we know you're not interested in a discussion.




I'm all in favor of paying reparations to ex-slaves. We just can't anymore.



The people of today are not owed what their grandparents were owed. I don't know how to make that any more clear. You are not your familial lineage. You are not your characteristics, you are not your shared genes.

If there are wrongdoings today, we address those.

I have better understanding of your point of view now. Instead of discussing needlesly about the past it is better to handle the issues in the present. In that sense you and I can agree, but there is still a hole in the wealth gap that historically in part was created by taking back the 40 acres. How do we presently address that without going into socialism which many oppose?

Strategically placed! lol! Black people generally seem to take over areas that the whites are leaving whether to move to the suburbs or perhaps better job opportunities and/ or better/newer infrastructure.
Blacks can move to those same areas or they can move to the areas the whites have moved out of. They have the freedom of choice just like every other race of people in this country, they are not put on a reservation as you try to make out.

And you want to put the blame on other races and make it their responsibility. We are over a half a century beyond the passing of the civil rights act in this country so it is about time that these people take the full responsibility for their own lack of performance or moving forward in wealth and prosperity.


We are having this conversation a half a century after affirmative action programs were instituted.

I do not have to conclude, I can look at the demographic makeup of the leaders and populations of multiple locations and the numbers dictate that the worse performing and the highest crime and murder rates in the country fall under that category within this country. That is not based on conjecture but the statistical facts released by the DOJ and the FBI.


The same opportunity is available to all people regardless of race, sex or religion in this country, that does not exclude blacks. Why does it seem that ALL OF THE OTHER races in this country do well but the black race even though they have actually been given certain advantages for the last 50+ years through affirmative action still in great numbers fail to better their situation?


Seems to be a controversy whether the promise was made that made it legally binding for the first point. Second point was whether the persons that may have made such promises had the actual legal authority to do so. Apparently the government back then did not think so and why would that change in today's times after all that were affected are long since deceased?

That has been available for over 50 years, you can lead a horse to water but you cannot make him drink. The opportunity is there for anyone in this country and race is not the factor but the motivation and desire and the EFFORT put out to succeed is more of a deciding factor.

There are a lot of blacks in this country that are very successful and they are still members of the black race so the opportunity is there. Perhaps those not doing so well should look at the blacks that have done well and follow in their footsteps instead of playing the I am a victim card.

I tried to avoid it, but you have many racist views. Black people over the past hundred of years did not have the same opportunities as people of the dominan ethnicity. You make it seem that they did and that their underperforming, because they are incompetent and through no fault but their own. Which just isnt true. They might have the same rights the past 50 years, but that doesnt mean a whole generation of oppressed people can suddenly correct the racial wealth gap by just working hard.

The notion that all ethnicities do well except black people do well is kind of a stretch. Is that really accurate?

 

[Danoff]

I have better understanding of your point of view now. Instead of discussing needlesly about the past it is better to handle the issues in the present. In that sense you and I can agree, but there is still a hole in the wealth gap that historically in part was created by taking back the 40 acres. How do we presently address that without going into socialism which many oppose?

I have kinda mentioned this (a few times).

The very first thing we need to do is to stop creating a culture of victimhood. Right now we're headed in the opposite direction. The worst thing you can do for somebody is to convince them that they are not responsible for their lives. Nobody is more responsible for your life (at least while you're alive) than you are. Also terrible is to convince people that they cannot succeed. We had 8 years of Obama as president, a black man. Skin color will not prevent you from succeeding.

There are other measures that can be taken. Legalization of marijuana is an example of something that helps enable police to focus on violent crime, and violent crime prevents prosperity.

Most of the problem is cultural (this is my own speculation). We're at this point encouraging people to group themselves based on superficial characteristics and then actively look for and claim victimhood based on those superficial characteristics. Recognizing that it might happen is one thing, but if you go looking for a stacked deck you'll find it. That experiment has been done with religious people already.

 

[PocketZeven]

I have kinda mentioned this (a few times).

The very first thing we need to do is to stop creating a culture of victimhood. Right now we're headed in the opposite direction. The worst thing you can do for somebody is to convince them that they are not responsible for their lives. Nobody is more responsible for your life (at least while you're alive) than you are. Also terrible is to convince people that they cannot succeed. We had 8 years of Obama as president, a black man. Skin color will not prevent you from succeeding.

There are other measures that can be taken. Legalization of marijuana is an example of something that helps enable police to focus on violent crime, and violent crime prevents prosperity.

Most of the problem is cultural (this is my own speculation). We're at this point encouraging people to group themselves based on superficial characteristics and then actively look for and claim victimhood based on those superficial characteristics. Recognizing that it might happen is one thing, but if you go looking for a stacked deck you'll find it. That experiment has been done with religious people already.

What do you think about making education and especially higher education more accessible to everyone would help reduce the wealth gap? Increasing funding for schools and better wages for teachers?