who will be the next Senna, in the fallowing 5 yrs????

[f1king]

Who do you think will be the next senna or even better than senna. And if your answer is MS please dont reply. Because MS can never be a Senna sure he's won the most races he has more championships but still he does not have FIRE! And the again the only reason he is where he is, is because he was at the right place at the right time.

 

[KevinPSX]

Yeah, Ferrari in 1996 was the right place at the right time.

 

[f1king]

He went there because they were gonna pay him a **** load of $$$$$$$$$ and bennetton was going down anyway so thats WHY!!!!!!!!

 

[KevinPSX]

I do agree with you that MS is no Senna.

He's better than Senna.

I think that Kimi, Button, and JPM all have World Championship potential. I don't know if any will be as good as Senna, though.

 

[vat_man]

Re MS - I just can't shake the taint of '94, and from there Benetton shouldn't have picked up the Renault supply that saw them dominate in '95. However, he is the class of the field at the moment though, and had he not broken his leg in '99 would have won that year as well.

There are some guys in there at the moment who look like they have a very bright future:
Raikkonen - I think he'll put the fear of God into Coulthard this year
Montoya - he's going to make Ralf look like the overpaid prima donna he really is
Heidfeld - I just hope he doesn't become the forgotten man in F1. If Reubens plays up this year, it might be a handy time to be in a Ferrari powered car

 

[harper]

Originally posted by vat_man
Montoya - he's going to make Ralf look like the overpaid prima donna he really is

Yessssssssss!!!! Finally, somebody else who thinks that

ditto montoya---I think he is really something special driver wise.

Button too--especially if he can get that Renault hooked up.

 

[vat_man]

Forgot about Jenson - good to see him get the bit between the teeth in testing.

I think he might give Trulli a very hard time indeed. Trulli's useless in the wet, too.

Re Ralf - once he settled down I thought he was good (and he is - probably Coulthard good), but once Montoya got close to him last year he really did piss and moan. I hate it when drivers do that - Piquet comes to mind.

 

[Pupik]

Unfortunately, for both good and bad reasons, I don't want to see another Senna.

Sure, 65 poles and 41 wins is tough to beat, but at least 10 wins or so slipped away due to mechanical error or brain fade. That would probably make some managers wince. However, there were drives like 1987 Detroit, 1988 Japan, and 1993 Donnington that knocked your socks off. It would be hard to find a driver that can set pole with only one or two flying laps. Amazing.

However, if it means a drop in the sportsmanship that is already hard to find, then I don't want to see other Senna-like qualities: you know, punching other drivers and/or marshals or knocking out other drivers from contention. For some reason, since Senna died, nobody talks about the other side of Ayrton.

Sorry to disappoint you, f1king, but Schumacher has indeed taken Senna's place in our F1 world of today. He's fast, smart, has a grasp for racecraft, and unsportsmanlike to boot. And he's got a lot of fire left in him, I'm not sure why you thought otherwise. He was just as quick after breaking his leg in '99, and had the potential to make the Ferrari team mould around him. That takes talent; do you think that Fiat would throw millions into a racing program operated by some second-rate driver?

I think our best chances at superstars are Raikonnen and Montoya, but the next driver to be praised like Senna might not be even born yet.

 

[vat_man]

Actually, I really miss all the nonsense that went on with Senna - the focus was on the racing, and not the machinations behind the scenes. Especially Japan in 1989 and 1990 - fantastic...

I don't know what it is with Schumacher that irks me - I suppose having been at Adelaide in '94, and that disgraceful incident in '97 with Villenueve (I'm aware that this is hypocrisy - but in Senna's defence - weakly - the 1990 incident was a payback), plus the Benetton stuff, it's just something I can't move past.

I had a real soft spot for Hakkinen - after seeing him nearly killed in Adelaide in '95, his comeback was pretty inspiring (even if his eyes weren't pointing in the same direction at Albert Park in '96). I doubt he could have lived with Schumacher in the same car , though.

 

[Zero]

The only person who can compare to Senna is of course Alain Prost, I mean Suzaka what an amazing race that was, Senna punting Prost off the track on the first lap absolutely brillant. The only driver that could come close to being the next Senna is Montoya, Shumacher (Michael) is the best F1 driver right now, if Senna didnt die in 1994 Michael wouldnt have won as many races and championships as he did, Senna would. Senna is the best F1 driver ever and Ferrari didnt pay him 49 million to drive for them just so they could win the championship he stayed with McLaren and Williams and dominated when he raced. Michael Shumacher is supposed to be a wet-weather driving expert but he cannot compare to what Senna did at Suzaka in the pouring rain I mean come on that has to be one of the best comebacks ever, think about it a minute.

 

[KevinPSX]

If Senna had lived, he'd still have retired a few years later and Schumacher would already have two Championships. And he could very well have more.

Button will whip Jarno "I qualify fourth and race to the back of the pack" Trulli.

 

[f1king]

Thank you!!! 😈 Zerocool.

 

[vat_man]

Originally posted by ZeroCool85
Michael Shumacher is supposed to be a wet-weather driving expert but he cannot compare to what Senna did at Suzaka in the pouring rain I mean come on that has to be one of the best comebacks ever, think about it a minute.

That was an amazing drive ('88, wasn't it?) considering he basically roll-started off the line, especially in the conditions.

Was that the race where once he got to the lead he spent the next five laps pointing to the sky everytime he went past a marshals' post trying to get the race stopped?

 

[Pupik]

Michael Shumacher is supposed to be a wet-weather driving expert but he cannot compare to what Senna did at Suzaka in the pouring rain I mean come on that has to be one of the best comebacks ever

Funny, I don't recall Senna ever driving in the pouring rain at Suzuka...the 1988 Autocourse says it was "mostly dry, occasional light rain". I hardly recall anything more than a drizzle on that day. It was a good comeback.

The only person who can compare to Senna is of course Alain Prost, I mean Suzaka what an amazing race that was, Senna punting Prost off the track on the first lap absolutely brillant.

Brilliant? Maybe for the World Wrestling Federation. Both acts in 1989-90 were in poor taste. I guess they warned each other....

Prost '89: "If Senna tries a move, I'm not going to move over for him."
Senna '90: "The pole position spot was on the wrong side of the track, the organizers get what they deserve."

...not what I'd call racing. At least the '89 incident didn't happen until 5-6 laps from the end.

All in all, I think Senna was the most gifted racer of his time. But not the best driver: too many incidents hurt his pride, and he always sought some sort of retaliation, and stupid things would occur. Instead of just admitting his mistake, he'd blame it on all the other drivers.

 

[KevinPSX]

pupik--did they stop making those Autocourses after the mid 90's? I checked two of them (92-93 and 93-94) out from my library a while back and it'd be cool if they're still around. But when I was going through Forix once it seemed like they didn't make them anymore after the mid-90's.

 

[vat_man]

Originally posted by pupik


Funny, I don't recall Senna ever driving in the pouring rain at Suzuka...the 1988 Autocourse says it was "mostly dry, occasional light rain". I hardly recall anything more than a drizzle on that day. It was a good comeback.

I watched the GP live - that comment's a little misleading - it rained on and off, particularly around the back of the circuit, and with the field on slicks it was quite treacherous. Senna's wet-weather talent was definitely a factor - and you can't tell me Donington '93 was anything less than a display of genius.

Look - you're quite right on the other stuff he pulled - it was pretty outrageous - but, hey, it had me laughing. It all seems so passionless now...

 

[Pupik]

Originally posted by KevinPSX
pupik--did they stop making those Autocourses after the mid 90's? I checked two of them (92-93 and 93-94) out from my library a while back and it'd be cool if they're still around. But when I was going through Forix once it seemed like they didn't make them anymore after the mid-90's.

You'd probably have to find them used; I can't find the 1986 edition for sale anywhere (the only missing one in my 1984 thru 2001 collection). I made Amazon.com do a search for me to find the book in 1997, but they still haven't found it (or probably really cared to find it). Problem is, they print it for a few months and that's it. I checked Autocourses at amazon.com and the 1991 edition is $160, used.

A fan I used to know said he found an old Autocourse (1973) at a used bookstore. They parted with it for something like $10...it's got to be worth a lot more than that! Try eBay, garage sales, used bookstores...you'll find some interesting stuff. Sometimes libraries get rid of old books. They can't keep everything in stock forever!

Good luck.

 

[Dudley]

I still believe that once he admitted deliberately running Prost off the road in 1990 he should have been stripped of that title and banned for life.

I'd even seriously have considered bringing attempted murder charges against Senna for that.

 

[Zero]

Originally posted by pupik
Brilliant? Maybe for the World Wrestling Federation. Both acts in 1989-90 were in poor taste. I guess they warned each other....

That was sarcasim but Senna and Prost each payed for that first lap shunt.

 

[Pupik]

Sorry, I figured by the tone of your message it was a pro-Senna.

I remember the local sports news announcer thought it was a smart move. Of course, I'm sure he never saw an F1 race before, TV or otherwise.

 

[GilesGuthrie]

Well that whole sorry mess was yet another illustration of how the FIA allows events to get out of hand, and then does nothing about it when the situation does flare up.

I don't think this PR-obsessed world will allow another Senna to come along.

Which is sad really.

 

[Pupik]

It's good to see Frank Williams still gives Senna a place on his car (and in his heart).

One day, I was stuck in traffic in Fort Lauderdale, and a mid-1990's Nissan 240SX had a "Senna Motors" logo on it. I'm looking for a pic of that.

 

[GilesGuthrie]

Originally posted by pupik
It's good to see Frank Williams still gives Senna a place on his car (and in his heart).

One day, I was stuck in traffic in Fort Lauderdale, and a mid-1990's Nissan 240SX had a "Senna Motors" logo on it. I'm looking for a pic of that.

It will be a long time before that stops Williams, Head and Newey waking up in the middle of the night. I think Frank will take it to his grave.

 

[vat_man]

Originally posted by GilesGuthrie


It will be a long time before that stops Williams, Head and Newey waking up in the middle of the night. I think Frank will take it to his grave.

Has Frank still got the picture of Senna on his desk?

 

[GilesGuthrie]

Originally posted by vat_man


Has Frank still got the picture of Senna on his desk?

Couldn't comment on that one!

 

[vat_man]

Originally posted by GilesGuthrie


Couldn't comment on that one!

The comment wasn't made in jest - I read an interview with Frank Williams eighteen months or so ago (by an Australian F1 correspondant, the name of whom eludes me) and it was mentioned in the article that Frank had a signed photo of Ayrton on his desk at the Williams factory.

 

[f1king]

Senna will never die. A spirit like that never leaves/

 

[GilesGuthrie]

Originally posted by f1king
Senna will never die. A spirit like that never leaves/

Only because there seems to be a certain section of the racing community that sits around waiting for 'the next' Ayrton Senna to come along.

One of the other things about this is that Senna's legend has sprung up partly because he was killed racing. All the other recent great drivers have retired of their own volition, right back to G Villeneuve, and look at the reverence in which he's held.

I therefore think that in order to become a complete legend in F1, you have to be killed doing it, which of course (thankfully) has become increasingly difficult in the last 20 years. In this way, Dale Earnhardt will always be the best NASCAR driver in the history of ever.

It's not a theory I would like to see tested, but I throw it to the floor for discussion...

 

[vat_man]

Tough to argue - but then look at the reverence Fangio is held in.

But, look at the following lists and think which you think has the greatest drivers?

List A:
- Piquet
- Prost
- Brabham

List B:
- Senna
- Clark
- G Villenueve

I wonder if it's the unrealised potential that does it?

 

[GilesGuthrie]

That's an excellent pair of lists, not least because it illustrates my point entirely. You can even broaden it outside F1, to include the likes of Hannu Mikkola, Emerson Fittipaldi, Al Unser, Mario Andretti, Juha Kankkunen in List A, and Henri Toivenen, Greg Moore, Bob Wollek in List B.

It's always difficult comparing the dead with the living, because it's such an emotive subject, and nobody wants to speak ill of the dead, but there's a definite precedent for over-revering the dead at the expense of the simply retired.