Who's at fault?

[Blackbird.]

To answer the thread title's question, I say both parties had faults. Mostly the bikers for their behavior.

I'm sure many of you read Autoblog and i'm sure this video has reached New York local media. As a summary there were a group, a large group, of bikers in NY that were doing their thing. You know stopping traffic, popping wheelies, closing exits... normal stuff. The video starts shortly before one biker brake checks a Range Rover supposedly to clear the road ahead so they can perform their stunts. Well either the RR didn't have enough time to react or he did it purposely and rear ended the bike. (Gosh brake checking a 2 ton vehicle on a motorcycle is a bad idea!) The bikers stopped surrounded the vehicle and reportedly started banging the the RR with their helmets and one even slashed one or more of their tires. Oh forgot to mention there's a mother and child in the RR as well. In the video it's hard to confirm that that's what they were doing but it seems like they were getting menacing at the very least. Shortly after that the RR lurched foward and ran over a few of the bikers. Then they were pursued...

**WATCH IN HD**


To be politically correct yes the driver was in the wrong. But us humans act on instinct sometimes right? If you are in fear for your life, especially your family's people act rash. Fight or flight mode kicks in. This is all assuming they were doing all the things that was claimed. Now it's very unfortunate that reportedly one of the bikers that was ran over may be paralyzed for the rest of their life but I mean, come on! This all started from a fender bender in which case could have been easily avoided if the biker A.) didn't do it all or B.) braked slower and at a farther distance. If you look closely at the video you see just before the RR rear ended the bike the front of the RR lurched forward, he tried to stop but was not given enough time or distance! All in all it's bad all around... both parties made major wrongs but this isn't the first video i've seen with a large group of bikers getting tangled up in issues like this.

I have a distinct feeling I will get flamed for what I said but regardless, What say you?

On a side note: I do not have any biased feelings towards bikers. When I'm on the road I give them as much room as they need because one I don't want to be responsible for hitting them and two, I think they're crazy for riding with such stupid drivers on the road (and there's a whole lot of them). When i'm in traffic or on the freeway I move over substantially so they can pass freely while splitting lanes and most riders acknowledge that. But the way these biker "gangs" behave ive seen many times and seen this similar result before, so it angers me.

 

[Carbonox]

Bunch of savages raging on the road... bleh, nothing new.

 

[RocZX]

They are both at fault.
The guy in the Range Rover for driving over the biker and the bikers for reckless driving and beating the guy up.

The bikers was doing a planed bike rally but they have dirt bikes and ATVs which are illegal on pubic roads in NYC.


On Jalopnik there is a few deleted vids of the bikers driving like idiots.

 

[CAMAROBOY69]

EDIT: I misunderstood, the biker was paralyzed not the driver
Cant imagine something like that happening in front of your wife and kid. Just devastating.

I don't know the entire story of why the bikers targeted that SUV driver so I don't know where to stand yet. All I have seen is a biker brake checking the SUV. Obviously an SUV cant out brake a bike. So imo that's where this started. At this point the driver is swarmed and they are hitting the SUV. Fearing for his life and his families life, the SUV flees the scene. Then it only gets worse from there for the SUV driver.

BTW this isn't the first time this biker gang has been in trouble with assaulting other people.

EDIT: I misunderstood, the biker was paralyzed not the driver

 

[GTMail]

You know stopping traffic, popping wheelies, closing exits... normal stuff. The video starts shortly before one biker brake checks a Range Rover supposedly to clear the road ahead so they can perform their stunts.

The bikers are at fault because of this. Their behavior was idiotic (not calling all motorcycle riders idiots) and immature. If they were really hitting on the windows with their helmets and assaulting the car while it was stopped at the beginning I probably would have done the same thing.

This incident is really unfortunate too. People like this ruin the name of motorcyclists. And the whole "gang" mentality that some of these motorcycle clubs carry can be intimidating to most people.

On a side note I have a motorcycle license but I don't ride currently. This story also made it to the LA news last night.

 

[Danoff]

I think I'll not watch the video and just pass judgement based on what I read here:

Driver is potentially at fault for rear-ending the motorcycle.

Biker gang is at fault for assaulting the driver - several of whom should be locked up for attempted murder. Driver is not at fault for running over bikers conspiring in attempted murder while trying to flee the scene.

Seems actually remarkably clear. No I have no interest in watching the video.

 

[Famine]

There's seven videos of the bikers behaving like absolute jobbies to everyone and anyone in "their" way earlier in the day - even on pavements. They swarmed the Range Rover looking for a fight - he was in "their" way because they wanted to use that bit of road for their dumbass stunting - and, unfortunately, got one.

After being brake-checked by one bikeist, he was then mobbed by a load of others beating on his car and Route 1ed his way out of an extremely dangerous and threatening situation, unfortunately running over one of the bikers who'd chosen to batter his wife's side of the car and paralysing him. They're lucky more of them weren't hurt or killed .


In other news, I drove a 2014 Range Rover Sport the other day and it seems Land Rover have updated the terrain response selector:

When you see it, etc. etc. etc​

 

[Ross]

Don't know the full story of why the bikers targeted the SUV but in those circumstances I would have done the same and just mowed down the bikers. They are not bikers, they are out and out thugs. I have no sympathy for any of the bike riders that were hurt/killed.

 

[Bopop4]

Both at fault, moreso the bikes though.

 

[Ryanswannell]

What gives a biker the right to slow down a car (is that what brake checking is?) that was legally (as far as I know) using the highway? Besides, if the biker did the brake check to "perform their stunts", i'm pretty sure that is illegal on public roads, no?

Bikers were initially in the wrong, so I feel the situation is their fault.

 

[CAMAROBOY69]

There's seven videos of the bikers behaving like absolute jobbies to everyone and anyone in "their" way earlier in the day - even on pavements. They swarmed the Range Rover looking for a fight - he was in "their" way because they wanted to use that bit of road for their dumbass stunting - and, unfortunately, got one.

After being brake-checked by one bikeist, he was then mobbed by a load of others beating on his car and Route 1ed his way out of an extremely dangerous and threatening situation, unfortunately running over one of the bikers who'd chosen to batter his wife's side of the car and paralysing him. They're lucky more of them weren't hurt or killed .


In other news, I drove a 2014 Range Rover Sport the other day and it seems Land Rover have updated the terrain response selector:

When you see it, etc. etc. etc​

Yes exactly the same story I have seen and heard.

The "when you see it" pic with the little bike had me rolling. But might be "too soon" ?

 

[Pupik]

...there were a group, a large group, of bikers in NY that were doing their thing. You know stopping traffic...

Failure to use a road properly might result in instant death.

Want to go play Evel Knievel? Do it in your own backyard or a private location.

Can't afford either one? Tough crap.

brake checks

See failure to use road properly. Drive/ride like an idiot, you might get hurt.

To be politically correct yes the driver was in the wrong. But us humans act on instinct sometimes right? If you are in fear for your life, especially your family's people act rash. Fight or flight mode kicks in.

I'd do the same if a couple dozen people were surrounding my car. Unless you're a construction crew, police, or any other public safety entity, you have no right to stop traffic, especially not for your own purposes. Doing so is dangerous, stupid, and illegal in most cases (save breakdowns).

But the way these biker "gangs" behave ive seen many times and seen this similar result before, so it angers me.

I'd wager that most bikers have little to no tendency to bother others on the road; I've met plenty, and by and large, their own harmless self-interest (namely, travelling and having fun doing so) and self-preservation (most other vehicles on the road are larger and posses a greater chance of causing harm rather than receiving it from a motorcycle rider). There's always going to be a tiny fraction of outliers that give a bad name to one and all, and these guys are part of that small group.

The same could be said for drivers; while we enjoy a performance vehicle, or at least, getting the most out of any vehicle, the number of so-called illegal "drag racers", "street racers", road-rage drivers, et cetera...are a small group of troublemakers as well.

I do not have any sympathy for those who cause or invoke public harm/fear to others, and violate the law by using public roads at the expense of others.

 

[Blackbird.]

Not sure if anyone read but the driver is paralyzed with ALL of his ribs broken after they yanked him out of his vehicle and beat him almost to death. Cant imagine something like that happening in front of your wife and kid. Just devastating.

I didn't read the driver was paralyzed, I know one of the bikers that got ran over more than likely will be paralyzed for the rest of his life. Maybe some info got switched or indeed the driver was paralyzed from these assholes. That's the problem with these stories that get widespread attention, the truth becomes distorted. But it seems pretty consistent one of the bikers will be paralyzed. But if that's true that angers me even more, these clown thugs ruined some kid's father's life and traumatized him in addition!

When you see it, etc. etc. etc​

What gives a biker the right to slow down a car (is that what brake checking is?) that was legally (as far as I know) using the highway? Besides, if the biker did the brake check to "perform their stunts", i'm pretty sure that is illegal on public roads, no?

Bikers were initially in the wrong, so I feel the situation is their fault.

Yes brake checking is illegal and very dangerous especially at highway speeds.

Failure to use a road properly might result in instant death.

Want to go play Evel Knievel? Do it in your own backyard or a private location.

Can't afford either one? Tough crap.



See failure to use road properly. Drive/ride like an idiot, you might get hurt.



I'd do the same if a couple dozen people were surrounding my car. Unless you're a construction crew, police, or any other public safety entity, you have no right to stop traffic, especially not for your own purposes. Doing so is dangerous, stupid, and illegal in most cases (save breakdowns).



I'd wager that most bikers have little to no tendency to bother others on the road; I've met plenty, and by and large, their own harmless self-interest (namely, travelling and having fun doing so) and self-preservation (most other vehicles on the road are larger and posses a greater chance of causing harm rather than receiving it from a motorcycle rider). There's always going to be a tiny fraction of outliers that give a bad name to one and all, and these guys are part of that small group.

The same could be said for drivers; while we enjoy a performance vehicle, or at least, getting the most out of any vehicle, the number of so-called illegal "drag racers", "street racers", road-rage drivers, et cetera...are a small group of troublemakers as well.

I do not have any sympathy for those who cause or invoke public harm/fear to others, and violate the law by using public roads at the expense of others.

Took the words out of my mouth, I was trying to be conservative in my original post because I'm not sure how others would react here. This was admittedly a test to see if Autoblog was the only place that thought I was callous in my opinion. I also do not want to throw these group of jerks in the same lot as every rider out there, because what you said is exactly right. It's why I let any rider I see go by with tons of space, my vehicle is alot more dangerous and imposing then that bike.

 

[Danoff]

Bikers were initially in the wrong, so I feel the situation is their fault.

Well, it's not that simple. You're not allowed to run a guy over for braking hard in front of you. Even if his friends are doing stupid things in the road ahead.

However, using deadly force to get out of a situation where your life has been threatened is acceptable. Meaning, when the bikers began attacking his vehicle, they needed to be careful not to give the guy good reason to think his life was in danger. Once they did that (which descriptions seem to indicate), they authorized him to use deadly force to get out of the situation... including running them over.

Then when they track him down and attempt to beat him to death, they commit a second offense of attempted murder AND bolster the guy's original position that his life was in danger.

 

[CAMAROBOY69]

I didn't read the driver was paralyzed, I know one of the bikers that got ran over more than likely will be paralyzed for the rest of his life. Maybe some info got switched or indeed the driver was paralyzed from these assholes. That's the problem with these stories that get widespread attention, the truth becomes distorted. But it seems pretty consistent one of the bikers will be paralyzed.

Yes according to the news I thought for sure the SUV driver was paralyzed. They broke out his window, removed him from the SUV (this is when the camera shuts off), Broke all his ribs, and broke his spine in 2 places. Almost killing him.

I apologize if I have incorrect information. That's what the news said this morning while interviewing some woman at the hospital then showing a before after of the driver.

 

[TheDabbinDave]

Too bad the state of NY doesn't allow people to carry guns. A 44 Magnum held in your face out the window of the RR, would instantly kick in the "back the f..k off" reaction of the crotch rocketeers, can't even call them "bikers".

 

[CAMAROBOY69]

Too bad the state of NY doesn't allow people to carry guns. A 44 Magnum held in your face out the window of the RR, would instantly kick in the "back the f..I off" reaction of the crotch rocketeers, can't even call them "bikers".

This is one of the first few stories where I have thought that exact same thing to myself. I just cant imagine being in that situation. There was clearly no other way for this father to defend himself or his family. But on the other hand, if he pulled out a gun, then the entire gang might have shot up his entire family. Its a lose lose for everyone in this situation. Terrible and frustrating story.

BTW you can have some guns in NY. But there are a lot of restrictions.

 

[Blitz24]

Yes according to the news I thought for sure the SUV driver was paralyzed. They broke out his window, removed him from the SUV (this is when the camera shuts off), Broke all his ribs, and broke his spine in 2 places. Almost killing him.

I apologize if I have incorrect information. That's what the news said this morning while interviewing some woman at the hospital then showing a before after of the driver.

Biker was paralyzed, not the RR driver.

Stop the video at 26 seconds (part right before the biker gets rear-ended). One of the two riders on the right was the one injured, I believe it was the one on the green bike.

 

[Blackbird.]

Well, it's not that simple. You're not allowed to run a guy over for braking hard in front of you. Even if his friends are doing stupid things in the road ahead.

However, using deadly force to get out of a situation where your life has been threatened is acceptable. Meaning, when the bikers began attacking his vehicle, they needed to be careful not to give the guy good reason to think his life was in danger. Once they did that (which descriptions seem to indicate), they authorized him to use deadly force to get out of the situation... including running them over.

Then when they track him down and attempt to beat him to death, they commit a second offense of attempted murder AND bolster the guy's original position that his life was in danger.

Just so it's clear this is what I heard reported, the video can't fully substantiate the claims because of the distance and crappy video quality but it seems clear he was most definitely surrounded.

Yes according to the news I thought for sure the SUV driver was paralyzed. They broke out his window, removed him from the SUV (this is when the camera shuts off), Broke all his ribs, and broke his spine in 2 places. Almost killing him.

I apologize if I have incorrect information. That's what the news said this morning while interviewing some woman at the hospital then showing a before after of the driver.

Yeah convenient how the video ends before they're about to presumably beat the living **** out of him. Cowards. That's so terrible if he was that seriously injured.

Looking at the video again... those drivers near and behind the RR when this all started they don't have any statements to confirm the claims?

 

[CAMAROBOY69]

Biker was paralyzed, not the RR driver.

Stop the video at 26 seconds (part right before the biker gets rear-ended). One of the two riders on the right was the one injured, I believe it was the one on the green bike.

Oh okay so what happened to the driver after he was pulled out and beat? The info I heard was on Good Morning America which is based out of NYC.

 

[Blackbird.]

Oh okay so what happened to the driver after he was pulled out and beat? The info I heard was on Good Morning America which is based out of NYC.

I need to find where I read this but he was beaten, black eyes and something else. But I don't remember reading something serious like broken ribs or even being paralyzed.

 

[Blitz24]

Oh okay so what happened to the driver after he was pulled out and beat? The info I heard was on Good Morning America which is based out of NYC.

Driver was injured and beaten but he was released from the hospital.

About the move the biker made in front of the RR. Isn't that similar to an insurance issue? I forgot the exact name of what it is though.

 

[CAMAROBOY69]

Driver was injured and beaten but he was released from the hospital.

About the move the biker made in front of the RR. Isn't that similar to an insurance issue? I forgot the exact name of what it is though.

Oh ok about the driver. Still would be terrible to be pulled from your vehicle and beat in front of your family. Also sad to hear anyone paralyzed. Bad placement of the video on Good Morning America. They talked about the driver then right after that talked about someone paralyzed. Very misleading.

As for the insurance issue. Do you mean wreckless driving for the biker to brake check the RR?

 

[Blitz24]

Wreckless driving?

That's a given.

Its something like called a Stop and... something. I don't remember the terminology but its literally staging an accident by the truest definition. That's really what it looked like the biker did.

 

[Tornado]

It didn't look like he intentionally rearended the bike, but that's the only thing that really looks open to interpretation. Everything from there was out of his hands.

 

[ImmalovemaGTR]

1.) I think SUV can brake better than bikes
2.) In MY opinion, the SUV driver did nothing wrong... sorry to all the serious and good motorbike riders out there, but 90% of the riders are 🤬... I have seen so many i:censored:ic bike riders out there, they all think they are the kings of the street just because of the better acceleration bikes have... Don't get me wrong, but I think they deserve to be hit by the Rangie...

 

[Omnis]

I think if the driver shot anyone the media would turn him into George Zimmerman jr.

 

[Carbonox]

Did any of those riders bother to call the police when their friend was randomly ran over by the driver of the RR? The driver of the RR was not violating the law by "following to closely" was he? The rider purposely stopped DIRECTLY in front of the truck, right? As mentioned, stopping on a highway for anything other than a breakdown is illegal.

Oh but those people don't do that. They're essentially cavemen on 2 wheelers whose only solution to the slightest bit of trouble is violence, violence and more violence.

 

[Blackbird.]

Oh but those people don't do that. They're essentially cavemen on 2 wheelers whose only solution to the slightest bit of trouble is violence, violence and more violence.

This.

I was initially wondering why the driver or passenger of the RR didn't call the police but quickly figured he was either too scared at the moment to think of it or probably thought he was at fault for running those guys over.

 

[TheDabbinDave]

This. I was initially wondering why the driver or passenger of the RR didn't call the police but quickly figured he was either too scared at the moment to think of it or probably thought he was at fault for running those guys over.

I think the buns and and wife were purely in "flight" mode, focused on escaping with their lives. Probably not at a stage of rational thinking to call the police. While the most of the riders were in a state of "fight".

I hope 911 tapes are released. The RR surely was not the only non-motorcycle in that area at that moment.

I do believe stiffer laws are coming for stunt riders using the streets as their playground and for those purposely causing a rear end collision.