Why does PD put really bad backmarkers in a race?

  • Thread starter SirBerra
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Is there any point at all in having certain cars run races and yet they are so far out of the running as to just merely get in the way? Not only are they slow, but also stupid. GT2 had some serious races, where the cars were so close in speed and skills.

For instance, in GT4 the Speedway Oval race they put in cars like the Gillet or Ford GT or Mercedes CLK or Nissan 390 GT1 or Camaro LM. Those cars just spend much their time up against the wall and sometimes even wind up spinning in the middle of the race track. Come on now. Those cars won't slow down serious AI cars or human drivers, but just become annoyances. I've noticed that a really slow backmarker can slow down a faster AI car, but just for a few moments at a wide track. At Tsukuba or Hong Kong maybe a little longer, but still, why bother. Any human driver can pass those slower cars in an instant and using a faster car than the AI has will still not make the race any closer.

The Corvette C5R and Gillet Vertigo are the notorious whipping boys of series races. They are so lame. They have nothing. I understand slipping in a slower car that saves its tires or gas to run further or longer than other cars. Those above mentioned cars have neither trait.

Now surely the GT4 race engine can handle five competitive AI cars at a time. The F1 championship doesn't put any seriously lame cars on the track (not that I've noticed, anyway)

I just plain don't like the idea of having to see an AI competitor that is lapped forty times in a 24 hour race. It's a waste of computing power. I believe that every AI car entered into the race should have a chance of at least coming in third, but surely not dead last every time.

So for what purpose would PD bother to add cars like that to a race? It really doesn't make much sense to me. Am I missing something that other GT4 racers understand the reason for doing such a thing?


Update: World Classic is mentioned by 3-Wheel Drive --

That race is seriously stupid. At least in some races all the cars are about equal since the AC doesn't enter every race. Still there is no purpose I can think of to have one car that fast among all those slowpokes. What is PD thinking?
 
SirBerra
Now surely the GT4 race engine can handle five competitive AI cars at a time. The F1 championship doesn't put any seriously lame cars on the track (not that I've noticed, anyway)


I agree with how you feel, it is a bit of an annoyance and can certianly be put right by simply giving a full competative field when it's only 6 cars. If it were 20 it wouldn't be so bad.

Though the F1 Championship uses the only car it can, which is the only reason it doesn't have slow back markers. If there were more then 1 *type* of F1 car, you can guarantee there would've been an "There's Always One" moment
 
SirBerra
Any human driver can pass those slower cars in an instant and using a faster car than the AI has will still not make the race any closer.
not true,most drivers wait for a safe place to pass or in the backmarkers case,pull over to let the other cars passed or to overtake,normally on a straight or an area which has a long braking distance.

this is sometimes shown in gt4
 
Having one slow car in the field doesn't bother me nearly as much as having one rabbit car that zooms off and leaves the rest of the pack behind.

Having one slow car means I can still have a decent race with the other four, but having one rabbit means that tuning to beat him makes all the other cars into slowpokes.
 
Duke
Having one slow car in the field doesn't bother me nearly as much as having one rabbit car that zooms off and leaves the rest of the pack behind.

Having one slow car means I can still have a decent race with the other four, but having one rabbit means that tuning to beat him makes all the other cars into slowpokes.

Yeah, I think that's the bigger issue. But both issues should be addressed, regardless, next go round.
 
Ive noticed that some races, will have a car way out of its league.
Was in a race, all cars were Prototype cars (R8, R90C, R90CP, C9, Toyota Minolta, and then theres a Chevy Comaro Race Car.
 
Duke
Having one slow car in the field doesn't bother me nearly as much as having one rabbit car that zooms off and leaves the rest of the pack behind.

Having one slow car means I can still have a decent race with the other four, but having one rabbit means that tuning to beat him makes all the other cars into slowpokes.
*cough**cough*World Classic Car Series*cough**cough*
That does irritates me to no end :mad:.
 
3-Wheel Drive
*cough**cough*World Classic Car Series*cough**cough*
That does irritates me to no end :mad:.

Seriously. When the AC is in that race whats the point of having the other 4 cars? Moving track debris?

And Drift King: Its spelt cAmaro :P
 
Duke
Having one slow car in the field doesn't bother me nearly as much as having one rabbit car that zooms off and leaves the rest of the pack behind.

Having one slow car means I can still have a decent race with the other four, but having one rabbit means that tuning to beat him makes all the other cars into slowpokes.
Not to mention it totally screws up the A-spec points for the race.
 
When I first raced the 1000 Miles! race (in a Marcos) there was a Fiat 500 in the series. At La Sarthe on B-spec (the track is too boring with slow cars, I had better things to do) my driver rammed him from 150mph on the straight. The Fiat was topping out around 56 and it would have had some serious engine damage afterwards because it went all the way up to 100mph from the hit.
 
Duke
Having one slow car in the field doesn't bother me nearly as much as having one rabbit car that zooms off and leaves the rest of the pack behind.

Having one slow car means I can still have a decent race with the other four, but having one rabbit means that tuning to beat him makes all the other cars into slowpokes.

When it's possible I often leave and re-enter the competion untill the notorious rabbit car isn't in the line up. This is not possible with all races, though.

My problem with the backmarkers is that they DON'T go out of your way to let you pass. I especially notice this when doing part of an endurance in B-spec. When I choose a competitive car, I sometime get really nervous when B-spec Sharon isn't able to take over a backmarker... this can cost valuable seconds.
 
I think they're there to keep your mind active, you see, I always find my self counting how many times I've lapped that certain backmarker.
 
Sometimes, it's more of an IQ test for B-spec Bob rather than some activity for you. The regular AI actually has better overtaking skills than him. So, seeing they're pre-programmed and have an IQ of 0, he has about -1. -30 on Hong Kong, -45 on Infineon Raceway.
 
i think they do this as a joke for them, andas a tool of anger for us. they were probibly crackin up when they decided to put it in.
 
Gingiba
Sometimes, it's more of an IQ test for B-spec Bob rather than some activity for you. The regular AI actually has better overtaking skills than him. So, seeing they're pre-programmed and have an IQ of 0, he has about -1. -30 on Hong Kong, -45 on Infineon Raceway.

Haha, ain't it the truth? I was actually noticing that the other day. I was doing the GTI cup with a Golf GTI V (215hp, and bronze rims FTW!!!11), and was dominating. I had previously avoided the first race at Hong Kong (cuz i hate that track), but eventually decided i'd B-Spec it. ... Bob came in third!!! :crazy:

Later, when i A-Spec'd it i overtook the entire field in the first 4 corners.
 
What I hate the most is the AI's only know your there when coming up from behind and sometimes they ram right into you. They also love to act like your not even there and run you right off the track. :dunce:

Sorry GT fans but Forza was awesome with it's AI's. They are fully aware of where your location is on the track and your driving habits. So you had to be very careful not to hit them cause they will remember and it won't be pretty. lol
 
Sonzilla
What I hate the most is the AI's only know your there when coming up from behind and sometimes they ram right into you. They also love to act like your not even there and run you right off the track. :dunce:

Sorry GT fans but Forza was awesome with it's AI's. They are fully aware of where your location is on the track and your driving habits. So you had to be very careful not to hit them cause they will remember and it won't be pretty. lol

Hell yes they are fully aware, they'll do a PIT manuever on you if they think you are going a little too fast on the straight.
 
Forza's A.I tries to murder you in any way possible with little concern for their own well-being. It's not that it's better, it's that they're more pissed off.
 
cerpin_taxt
i think they do this as a joke for them, andas a tool of anger for us. they were probibly crackin up when they decided to put it in.

[While programming the lines of the SartheII opponents]
Programmer 1: Hey, how 'bout this: Let's insert a really bad car.
P2: The Ford GT40?
P1: Yeah. Now lets make it spin at the end of the straight!
[Later, working on the SuperSpeedway]
P2: This is boring.
P1: uh-huh. Let's make the GT40 spin again!
 
It is ludicrous to see a 17 HP Fiat 500 buzzing around whilst gullwing Mercs and Jags are roaring past it at the Nürburgring track. But if the algorythm of the software goes as I guess it does, it should match the car's main characteristic like it's being as a vintage car first, instead of any other criteria.
I mean a Marcos is not my all time favorite racer but at least it is purpose built. It is a bit annoying to see a Kharmann VW 1500 or that Fİat 500 block your way at a straight just before the hairpin where you will have to brake hard and lose your momentum to overtake. I did not however lose any race due to the strange behaviour of these cars...

As for overcoming the rockets which you can not beat no matter what you do, the trick is to quit and start the race until you do not see it there.

Another trick I discovered is that when you buy a body warp restoration program from the misc menu of the modifications, the power is also restored. I tried it out on my Minolta Toyota, (degraded from 1205 HP to 1050 and restored) Nissan (uhh... The one you drive in the IA license tests down the La Sarthe straightway) and the gold cougar I grabbed from the used car lot.

Could be of some help...
 
modik
Another trick I discovered is that when you buy a body warp restoration program from the misc menu of the modifications, the power is also restored. I tried it out on my Minolta Toyota, (degraded from 1205 HP to 1050 and restored) Nissan (uhh... The one you drive in the IA license tests down the La Sarthe straightway) and the gold cougar I grabbed from the used car lot.

Doesn't work for me.
My used Cougar still has 324 bhp (after oil change) and my prize car Cougar has 341 bhp... Or do you mean restore to the power when you got it? Is it the same as an oil change, or does it restore more?
 
Grayman222
engines "wear in" and go up to 102% or so power before losing power. prize cars start at the highest number, are you seeing that?

This was true for GT3, but is it also true for GT4?
btw. used cars don't "wear in" anymore.
Any car when you got it (used, prize, new) benefits from an oil change, I know that much. But I wonder if you really have to wear them in...
 
iLex
Doesn't work for me.
My used Cougar still has 324 bhp (after oil change) and my prize car Cougar has 341 bhp... Or do you mean restore to the power when you got it? Is it the same as an oil change, or does it restore more?


No I bought it second hand.
 
re: wear in
sorry maybe that was just gt3 where that happened

re: cougar
maybe it was a 10km one
should be easy to check as most used cars have tens of thousands of miles on them, I know i don't drive my cars that much!
 
my favorite face to do was the 1000 miles! with the 1970 Chevelle SS. the fiat was funny because i overlaped it about 10 times each race.
 
I always liked ramming the back of the fiat with the Cobra (Shelby) when I came behind it nearing a hill...or a chicane...ping pong it off the walls and hitting it again whnever it ponged back into the road sideways...ah good times of entertainment can be had with mini-backmarkers
 
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