Why doesn't Sony just takeover the developing of GT7

[Prenny]

I remain surprised that PD hasn't attempted something similar. An open world game would be a perfect home for all those standard cars. Lots of low poly cars on the road at once, and lots of graphical power free to deal with the pretty scenery and open-worldiness. It'd be sweeeeet. And it'd probably be a better home for some of their quirky ideas than a motorsports game.

Like in Midnight Club Los Angeles, Rockstar Games reused old Midnight Club 3 PS2/XBOX car models and made them as traffic cars in a PS3/X360 game.

 

[ironman44321]

If there is a title to be concerned about, it would be one on their own console, like Project Cars. It's competing for the segment of the GT fanbase that really enjoys competitive racing but it remains to be seen how broad that appeal is and if it has any effect on GT7 sales. If Project Cars gains traction, I expect the real fight will be with Project Cars 2 and a massively expanded car and feature collection.

While I expect Project Cars to be really good, and I plan on buying it, I sort of doubt a game as focused as PCars will do the kind of sales it would take to hurt GT. I expect it to sell less than Driveclub. Though, it being digital only will make it nearly impossible to track.

 

[Johnnypenso]

While I expect Project Cars to be really good, and I plan on buying it, I sort of doubt a game as focused as PCars will do the kind of sales it would take to hurt GT. I expect it to sell less than Driveclub. Though, it being digital only will make it nearly impossible to track.

I also think PCars will have little effect on GT, the two games actually compliment each other and there's room for both on the shelf of most enthusiasts. The great thing about being multi-platform is you don't have all your eggs in one basket. You can sell a relatively paltry 1 million on each platform and this game will be a raging success financially given it's relatively tiny dev budget.

Is it digital only on console? I figured most PC sales would be through Steam but I believe there is a hard copy available for PC as well.

 

[niky]

Let's be honest, GT could stand a little more milking.

In the last 14 years we've had three main series games. Nobody's saying it has to be every year, but every two or three years would be nice.

Frankly, I think the way Forza has it set up is pretty clever. They've got two series that are catering to fairly different markets but (supposedly) have high levels of overlap between assets and code. You get a GT equivalent every couple of years, and a TDU equivalent every couple of years. Even if you only like one of the series, you're only a couple of years between games. Win:win?

I remain surprised that PD hasn't attempted something similar. An open world game would be a perfect home for all those standard cars. Lots of low poly cars on the road at once, and lots of graphical power free to deal with the pretty scenery and open-worldiness. It'd be sweeeeet. And it'd probably be a better home for some of their quirky ideas than a motorsports game.

If there's a good argument for outsourcing, I think it's this... share physics engine, assets and data with an outside studio tasked with making a more arcade-like (arcade-like in the sense that you're not trying to stay within x percent of your target lap time over a four hour stint in an endurance race...) game with free-roam and/or more casual driving tasks.

Some of my favorite tracks from GT have been the twistier open-road based tracks. The track creator helps give you a lot of this kind of action, but it would be nice to have more, do more and get to drive in mixed road traffic with more variety.

 

[Griffith500]

There is the small issue in that, ignoring content, Forza Horizon and Forza proper are quite different in theme, aesthetic and feel. Ideally, you'd have content duplicated across mechanically different games. But that could seem cheap; which is why I say it's up to us.

I'd love an open driving game with realistic physics and zero dudebro.

 

[ironman44321]

I also think PCars will have little effect on GT, the two games actually compliment each other and there's room for both on the shelf of most enthusiasts. The great thing about being multi-platform is you don't have all your eggs in one basket. You can sell a relatively paltry 1 million on each platform and this game will be a raging success financially given it's relatively tiny dev budget.

Is it digital only on console? I figured most PC sales would be through Steam but I believe there is a hard copy available for PC as well.

I agree, I think they are different enough for both of them to be successful on the same console. I'm also sure the game will be successful

Oh, and I was originally under the impression it was digital only but Gamestop seems to have pre-orders for it so it must also be retail. My mistake.

 

[Earth]

The difference is that PD doesn't milk their franchise.

PD releases a game every 3 years and then spends another 2 years finishing it. How is releasing a game every two years milking a franchise? Taking forever to release a game doesnt mean it will be good or release 'finished', as the last 2 GT titles proved.

In all honesty, I dont understand why it would take longer then 2 years to release sequels to a racing game. Its not like a traditional game sequel where 99% of the content has to be made new from scratch. With racing game sequels they can copy over most of the assets from the previous game. Im sure everyone expects all the premium cars and tracks from GT6 to transfer over to GT7. So why in the world should it take 3-4 years to come out? Forza 5 was a launch title for the Xbox One...13 months ago.

Really what are they doing besides refining the physics and modeling new cars and tracks? Why not just release what you have every 2 years? Why plan 4 years worth of content, release it after 3 years and spend 12+ months finishing it like GT?

GT6's development doesnt make any sense. It released 7 years after the PS3 launch, and 3 years after GT5, yet for some reason its still incomplete. You would think it would be the culmination of 7 years worth of work on the PS3 and would feel complete and finished. But at launch it wasnt, and 13 months later it still isnt.

Wow, I hadn't realised he was that far up the chain. It does explain why he's been able to get away with so much in recent years however. There was I thinking he was answerable to someone.

Everybody has to answer to someone. Hes not immune to being told to get on the ball

........Oi, don't give 'em ideas....

Okay, my 2 cents is this: the most important reason, the way I see it, is that Mr. Kaz is not a robot - no matter how talented you are, if you've been plugging at exactly same thing for 17+ years without a break now and then, you are bound to run out of ideas/creative juice/mojo. I feel GT5/GT6 kinda emphasizes my point. These two doesn't feel.....inspired, let's just put it that way. Features were removed for no perceivable reason, things were added for little-to-no benefit, game's focus is all over the place - perhaps bringing new, fresh blood over may be the curative the series might need. Or even, series taking a small break and PDI do something totally different - altho' I can't see this happening...

Anyway, with the announcement of Forza 6 massively complicates things for Kaz and PDI - dunno when GT7 might be ready to ship, but a rampant speculation puts FM6 coming at near or around holiday season, 2015 - and no mention of GT7 in sight, safe bet might be 2016. That would potentially put THREE Forza titles on a rival console. Not to mention a little fly in the ointment called PCars....

Your right GT/PD does appear to have run out of ideas. Driveatars were huge for the Forza franchise. GT hasnt done anything innovative since bspec way back in GT4. Theres the course maker but it was a flop on GT5 and it may never make it to GT6. The community here has hundreds of ideas for game changing features, so even if Kaz has nothing left in the tank theres no shortage of ideas.

Games like Madden understand the importance of new features, thats why every year its got some new gimmick to hype people up. Forza said they are "ending AI" with the driveatars, GT needs a game changing announcement/feature like that

 

[JKgo]

..............@Earth holy heck your profile pic's creepy. What's up??

 

[ironman44321]

..............@Earth holy heck your profile pic's creepy. What's up??

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Margaret_Keane

 

[JKgo]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Margaret_Keane

.................Didn't expect a reply from a Tony Stark but okay, I'll bite.....
{comes back after checking out the link}

.............Huh, that right. So 'em creepy pics were done by Amy Adams while her hubby stole all the limelight, eh?

Thanks for the link.👍

 

[ironman44321]

.................Didn't expect a reply from a Tony Stark but okay, I'll bite.....
{comes back after checking out the link}

.............Huh, that right. So 'em creepy pics were done by Amy Adams while her hubby stole all the limelight, eh?

Thanks for the link.👍

Fun fact, I've been using this name since before the movie came out (never read the comics). I take it from the Black Sabbath song.

But yes, Amy Adams painted them haha

 

[Scuderia Paul]

Despite the issues GT has as a result of PD's methods of developing, in that it is slow meticulous work that causes deficiencies in staying up to date with cars, I think the outsourcing of car asset modelling and sounds would help immensely.

I think that if it is at all possible CAD data, and sound, should be shared with Evolution Studios for example to speed up development when featuring the same cars. That seems like a no-brainer to me although PD may have compatibility issues with what ES use. Obviously, taking it further you would be looking a firm outside of SCE.

I make it sound easy but presumably there is more to it. Besides, seeing as PD refers to the modelling as art it is unlikely we will see this at all.

 

[ironman44321]

Despite the issues GT has as a result of PD's methods of developing, in that it is slow meticulous work that causes deficiencies in staying up to date with cars, I think the outsourcing of car asset modelling and sounds would help immensely.

I think that if it is at all possible CAD data, and sound, should be shared with Evolution Studios for example to speed up development when featuring the same cars. That seems like a no-brainer to me although PD may have compatibility issues with what ES use. Obviously, taking it further you would be looking a firm outside of SCE.

I make it sound easy but presumably there is more to it. Besides, seeing as PD refers to the modelling as art it is unlikely we will see this at all.

I hear people suggest having ES help or share car data with PD to speed things up, but the models ES use are not nearly detailed enough for PD. The Driveclub cars have 250,000 polygons while even in GT5 the premium cars had twice that many.

 

[Northstar]

I never really got the point of PD going so far into detail considering how little of the interior we can see while driving and the lack of interior options in photomode.

Plus, I would be willing to sacrifice a little bit of detail if it means more cars on track and better performance.

 

[Johnnypenso]

I hear people suggest having ES help or share car data with PD to speed things up, but the models ES use are not nearly detailed enough for PD. The Driveclub cars have 250,000 polygons while even in GT5 the premium cars had twice that many.

Can you spot the missing polygons? I can't. Can you honestly say you don't think these would fit right into GT6 or GT7?

 

[RACECAR]

My one issue with the sharing of resources is compatibility. Seeing as PD does their modeling in-house as well as several other method(including their own plugins for the programs they use), I'm not so sure any of it would be compatible with what Evolution Studios maybe using.

 

[05XR8]

Gran Turismo Motorsport. The real racing simulator. FiA approved. Only real FiA approved courses. Only real FiA homologated race cars in multiple catgories. Real FiA scenarios only you and the GT Racing community, along with real FiA officials determine the outcome. I can see this part of the GT World branching out. But.... kinda hard to do with only 4 or 5 people assigned to it.

 

[Harsk100]

Let's be honest, GT could stand a little more milking.

In the last 14 years we've had three main series games. Nobody's saying it has to be every year, but every two or three years would be nice.

Frankly, I think the way Forza has it set up is pretty clever. They've got two series that are catering to fairly different markets but (supposedly) have high levels of overlap between assets and code. You get a GT equivalent every couple of years, and a TDU equivalent every couple of years. Even if you only like one of the series, you're only a couple of years between games. Win:win?

I remain surprised that PD hasn't attempted something similar. An open world game would be a perfect home for all those standard cars. Lots of low poly cars on the road at once, and lots of graphical power free to deal with the pretty scenery and open-worldiness. It'd be sweeeeet. And it'd probably be a better home for some of their quirky ideas than a motorsports game.

An Open World game would be awesome. But do you prefer that standard cars be playable in Open World game? Or unplayable?

 

[Imari]

An Open World game would be awesome. But do you prefer that standard cars be playable in Open World game? Or unplayable?

It depends how the game is designed.

I don't support a two (or more) tiered quality of cars for the player.

If they're going to have standard cars playable, then any premium cars should be downgraded to the same visual quality and have the cockpits removed, and the additional graphical power used for something else like more cars on screen/better lighting/improved scenery. If standard cars are OK, there's no sense wasting power on the additional features of the premiums.

If they want to have cockpits and high poly cars playable, then no standards for the player. Any standards that they wanted the player to use should be upgraded to premium level.

That's how I'd design it. A consistent experience, depending on whether you want to provide high quality or high quantity of content. Either is fine, but a choice needs to be made.

 

[Harsk100]

It depends how the game is designed.

I don't support a two (or more) tiered quality of cars for the player.

If they're going to have standard cars playable, then any premium cars should be downgraded to the same visual quality and have the cockpits removed, and the additional graphical power used for something else like more cars on screen/better lighting/improved scenery. If standard cars are OK, there's no sense wasting power on the additional features of the premiums.

If they want to have cockpits and high poly cars playable, then no standards for the player. Any standards that they wanted the player to use should be upgraded to premium level.

That's how I'd design it. A consistent experience, depending on whether you want to provide high quality or high quantity of content. Either is fine, but a choice needs to be made.

Well for me, I'd say Quality = Quantity (50% by 50%). I don't want to lose the cars from GT6 on GT7.

 

[Imari]

Well for me, I'd say Quality = Quantity (50% by 50%). I don't want to lose the cars from GT6 on GT7.

So what choice do you make?

You want to keep all the cars, and I've stated how I would do it if I wanted to keep all the standards in. How would you approach the game design to make sure that the player is having a great experience as much of the time as you can manage?

 

[Johnnypenso]

Well for me, I'd say Quality = Quantity (50% by 50%). I don't want to lose the cars from GT6 on GT7.

Quality is pretty much an all or nothing thing. Either you have consistent quality up to the latest gaming visual benchmarks or you don't. So a vote for 50% weight on quantity is actually a vote for quantity and not quality.

 

[SCER]

As somebody who doesn't mind standards at all, I'd be happy with the current format in an open-world game.

Also I'm not sure how well GT's car count would actually fare in an open-world driving game were standards to be discarded (quality > quantity). Premium cars - premium race cars/non-road legal cars = not an awful lot of cars.

 

[Johnnypenso]

As somebody who doesn't mind standards at all, I'd be happy with the current format in an open-world game.

Also I'm not sure how well GT's car count would actually fare in an open-world driving game were standards to be discarded (quality > quantity). Premium cars - premium race cars/non-road legal cars = not an awful lot of cars.

200+ cars isn't enough?

 

[05XR8]

200+ cars isn't enough?

And I'm sure PD could scrape up 200+ 2014/2015 model cars easily at standard quality. Maybe even at standard-premium and recreate Japans highways linked to each province that have racing circuits. On PS4, I'd buy it.

 

[SCER]

200+ cars isn't enough?

200+ could be 400, so of course I'd have to say yes. If you're asking me if an amount is enough you sort of have to include an upper limit.

I'd love to know exactly how many premium road cars there are though. Might try and figure it out later.

 

[JKgo]

......Ooooh an open world GT game discussion: love this topic.
Standard cars can stay, used by AI only, as traffic. Midnight Club LA did this, Test Drive Unlimited did this, so why not open world GT. Hell, pretty sure other open world racers do the same (The Crew, FH). As for premium race cars, why not keep them - allowing you to utilize them in "closed road-course" races, as well as all those tracks that needs to stay in game too.
So, basically, you drive around, find landmarks like car dealerships, places of interests, garages, gas stations, tuning shops and entrances to race tracks, all strewn across a varied map. To the west, you get Venice Beach-esque scenery, complete with American dealerships, races and challenges for muscle cars and the like.
To the north, you get "posh" mountainous areas simulating The Olde World (i.e. Europe) and your European dealers/tracks; and when you enter "CBD" area it's all tall skyscrapers and Japanese makers/tracks.
To the east you get a desert with lots of room for drag/off road, while to the south, you get some epic cruising routes flanked by the ocean and a cliffside.
The game needs to have a fast-travel system - if you found a landmark, then just press a button and boom, you are there, kinda like The Crew. And some sort of messaging system, where your friends can send you PMs and invites to a lobby; also for AIs regularly challenging you to a race, like in Midnight Club.
Also, this being a GT, not GTA, you've gotta obey the traffic law - the way I envisioned it, the game has a discreet EXP system where every action you perform nets you some points. If you misbehave, your EXPs are deducted. And with these points you can periodically claim bonus goodies such as new livery (yes!), new tuning parts and such.
And the physics needs to be GT, not GTA too. Add to that day/night cycle, full-on weather/season system (snows in winter, dry in autumn etc), some sort of damage system, and more accurate tyre wear/ fuel usage/ chassis and motor degradation, then we got ourselves pretty much perfect template of an open world racer. 👍👍

 

[Griffith500]

There'd be no real need to scale down quality of the models themselves (although they would be displayed at a lower quality more of the time), and it remains to be seen what happens to the Standards in the transition. Think the streamed cars in the Sierra challenges, tessellation, and changes to environment rendering in GT6, and you'll see PD already have things in hand on the technical front.

Sharing the assets between different "expressions" of the broader driving genre is the key to efficient diversification. The technical environment dictates the asset format to a degree, which makes sharing assets across different technical bases potentially prohibitive.

It is the assets that cost the most to produce in terms of manpower, and they can be efficently worked on in parallel, unlike code.

Releasing separate games with slightly different code (but markedly different gameplay) is a great way to test more features all at the same time with fewer compromises. The problem comes should you try to cross pollinate features in future revisions; and that's with the same developer working on it all. The task is so much more fraught if technically outsourced.

Loving the ephemerally absolute definitions of quality and quantity, by the way.

 

[SCER]

So, basically, you drive around, find landmarks like car dealerships, places of interests, garages, gas stations, tuning shops and entrances to race tracks, all strewn across a varied map. To the west, you get Venice Beach-esque scenery, complete with American dealerships, races and challenges for muscle cars and the like.
To the north, you get "posh" mountainous areas simulating The Olde World (i.e. Europe) and your European dealers/tracks; and when you enter "CBD" area it's all tall skyscrapers and Japanese makers/tracks.
To the east you get a desert with lots of room for drag/off road, while to the south, you get some epic cruising routes flanked by the ocean and a cliffside.

I take it we're talking about a map of an as of so-far unseen scale, if we're thinking of putting areas representative of North America, Europe and East Asia on the same map. It'd be a heck of a thing if anyone could be bothered to render a map of that size. Can't imagine it could be done whilst staying in-line with modern graphical standards.

 

[Griffith500]

It'd be much more sensible to utilise the course generator and online sharing of routes, although PD have already made at least one area (Ronda).

Then routes made by players and PD could be strung together seamlessly in a fixed-for-everyone (consistent), but user-selectable fashion, giving the impression of a large world of interlinked driving roads.

The selection could be made from hubs, like the petrol stations on Toscana in GT5 or the similar structures on Sierra. This requires some form of branching (Ronda) and point to point (trivial). The hardest part is making it seamless on the controls front - how to select whilst driving? Route planner up front?