Why Kaz needs to go...

[cassiusclay99]

@Tenacious D
I don't even know what your point is... Do you imply that we think PD are too lazy to fix the game? SERIOUSLY?
Where is the word "lazy" even written? You see? When I say you make up things we would have said just to make a point.

And what point do you make then: "The online is not out because...it's not ready!" WOW! Thank you for enlighting us wise man!

You just completely missed our/my point which was: "Kaz/PD have no clue how to build online. Look what they did in 10 years!" Lazy? No! Uninspired and completely out of date? YES!!

Now as long as you pretend not to understand what we say, or understand things we did not say, as long as you'll put words in our mouths, no: I don't want to have a conversation with you.

Edit: Really gives me Seabass defenders' vibes here. Where is PES now? Sure! Seabass created Winning eleven...and killed it not having a clue how to make it evolve... Who would have thought this 6 years ago?

 

[LMSCorvetteGT2]

Did you? You're both of the same opinion on this matter. Blaming someone who bought the game for the "quality" of the game is fallacious. That was misunderstood from the economically motivated point being made (trading in the game makes the mistake of buying it less expensive).

Actually it doesn't have to, some people do it because they can't afford games for 60+ USD, and thus buy it due to their own financial ability and it being more feasible at 25 or 30 rather than 60+, but if you want to generalize it. Also some people are buying it at a cheaper rate based on the quality of the predecessor, they may very well find GT6 worth the price after playing it.

Although, there are the beginnings of some truths in that misunderstanding: "quality" is subjective, so their own opinion of the game is technically their own "fault" (neither right nor wrong)). Also, for "crowd sourcing", the apparent holy grail of game development, the final "quality" totally is the fault of "patrons".

Again, none of this is actually being argued, though. I don't know where you come up with these arbitrary crusades you wish you could be fighting.

Uh obviously it's subjective, and it really isn't the fault of patrons when things showcased that take prominence but never have a slated time line as released DLC. Even if PD says hey this isn't going to be in the game anytime soon, but will at some point, they are very well using that future game material to currently sale the product as is without it. Based on the promise that you will have it at some point. So people can question final quality because 4 months in and the claimed items for DLC are even older since we were given info on it pre-release are no where closer to being seen. I have the same issue with a certain game company and their racer game as well doing it too.

What's arbitrary about it?

 

[Griffith500]

@LMSCorvetteGT2 uh, OK carry on arguing against a point that was never made, fine.

Burn the Heretic. Kill the Mutant. Purge the Unclean.

Who were they again...?

You might have to explain both the content of that post and the nature in which you've "quoted".

 

[Vagabond]

You might have to explain both the content of that post and the nature in which you've "quoted".

To you or anyone that may wonder?

The content is a quote from Warhammer 40,000: Dawn of War. Context of quote in relation to question "Who were they again?" - humour relative to your post about imagined or hoped for crusades.

Conclusion - irreverant humour targeted at the general apparent need for a crusade and a target for said crusade, regardless of relevance, cause, need.

Outcome - "Its ok, its a dud"

 

[Griffith500]

To you or anyone that may wonder?

The content is a quote from Warhammer 40,000: Dawn of War. Context of quote in relation to question "Who were they again?" - humour relative to your post about imagined or hoped for crusades.

Conclusion - irreverant humour targeted at the general apparent need for a crusade and a target for said crusade, regardless of relevance, cause, need.

Outcome - "Its ok, its a dud"

No, I meant more the fact that the quoted post in your post (I had no idea you were also quoting in your post - meta-quoting) does not tally with the text in that quoted post.

I still don't get it, either way. My point is that people are frothing at the mouth for a bit of a fight, even if it's about something that hasn't actually been said.

Which is kind of ironic given the way you've quoted me, because people get a little partisan in these parts, and I've been assumed to take sides in arguments I have no intention of getting involved in, as it's all ad hominem nonsense that should be taken to PMs or the debating forums.

I have no idea what that argument is supposed to be about, except for what it's always about.

 

[Vagabond]

I still don't get it, either way. My point is that people are frothing at the mouth for a bit of a fight, even if it's about something that hasn't actually been said.

Well, that was my point, albeit more obscure than yours. It was, if nothing else, an attempt at humour.

"Epic fail"

Since its common knowledge that once you become a moderator, your sense of humour is surgically extracted, I can't be held accountable for its failure in that aspect.

 

[Speedracer8218]

Well, that was my point, albeit more obscure than yours. It was, if nothing else, an attempt at humour.

"Epic fail"

Since its common knowledge that once you become a moderator, your sense of humour is surgically extracted, I can't be held accountable for its failure in that aspect.

Still... Not bad for a half cyborg

 

[LMSCorvetteGT2]

Well, that was my point, albeit more obscure than yours. It was, if nothing else, an attempt at humour.

"Epic fail"

Since its common knowledge that once you become a moderator, your sense of humour is surgically extracted, I can't be held accountable for its failure in that aspect.

Aren't you a certified machine now Vagabond, that's how it works you become a mod and sign your humanity away correct?

Nah, your joke was fine and it's even better since it has pop culture ref to it. 👍

 

[Griffith500]

Well, that was my point, albeit more obscure than yours. It was, if nothing else, an attempt at humour.

"Epic fail"

Since its common knowledge that once you become a moderator, your sense of humour is surgically extracted, I can't be held accountable for its failure in that aspect.

I'm sure the fact that I failed to recognise the humour was my fault, even if you'd quoted me properly: notice the quote is attributed to someone else, but it is my text. I realise now that that must have been in error (at first I thought maybe it was the joke...), but I was too discombobulated by it to correctly parse your reply!

 

[mustangxr]

You have to give Kaz credit for what he has done. His passion for cars can be felt in his games, and alot of the ideas he implemented in Gran Turismo like race mods, B-Spec, tuning parts, and car washes were new, fresh and exciting.

I think the problem is Kaz has simply ran out of ideas and hanst pushed the series forward. On his watch he has allowed core aspects of gameplay like AI, sound, and damage to become neglected in favor of superficial marketing stunts like GT Academy and GT Vision cars. Essentially, he forgot GT is a game. And gamers dont buy games that arent very good at being what they are. Sales numbers seem to reflect that.

Im willing to give Kaz and PD one last chance with GT7. Maybe they just got too comfortable at the top and fell asleep while the competition zipped past them. And maybe GT6 sales numbers are the wakeup call Kaz and his team needs? If they dont address legacy issues with GT7, then the franchise is dead, and there will be no successor to Kaz because GT will be no more.

Kaz use to know best, because there was nobody else in the room but him. Now with SMS, Turn 10, and others raising the bar, Kaz appears to still be beating the old realistic graphics and physics drum into the ground. Problem is, everybody has realistic graphics and physics on consoles nowadays. The differences between how all these games will look and feel on next gen consoles will be minute to a casual observer. What will set them apart is the gameplay. Who has the best car list, the funnest modes and single player, the best multiplayer options, and more. Kaz still thinks graphics and physics will sell his game like it did 10 years ago. It wont. Everybody has caught up. And without clearly superior graphics and physics suddenly the other weak elements in your game are exposed even moreso.

It's Kaz's job to understand all this. GT6 is the first time his franchise has reached a turning point. All he has to do is turn. The road straight ahead leads off a cliff. I doubt he will take the franchsie that way, so I think GT7 should turn out pretty good.

You have to give Kaz credit for what he has done. His passion for cars can be felt in his games, and alot of the ideas he implemented in Gran Turismo like race mods, B-Spec, tuning parts, and car washes were new, fresh and exciting.

I think the problem is Kaz has simply ran out of ideas and hanst pushed the series forward. On his watch he has allowed core aspects of gameplay like AI, sound, and damage to become neglected in favor of superficial marketing stunts like GT Academy and GT Vision cars. Essentially, he forgot GT is a game. And gamers dont buy games that arent very good at being what they are. Sales numbers seem to reflect that.

Im willing to give Kaz and PD one last chance with GT7. Maybe they just got too comfortable at the top and fell asleep while the competition zipped past them. And maybe GT6 sales numbers are the wakeup call Kaz and his team needs? If they dont address legacy issues with GT7, then the franchise is dead, and there will be no successor to Kaz because GT will be no more.

Kaz use to know best, because there was nobody else in the room but him. Now with SMS, Turn 10, and others raising the bar, Kaz appears to still be beating the old realistic graphics and physics drum into the ground. Problem is, everybody has realistic graphics and physics on consoles nowadays. The differences between how all these games will look and feel on next gen consoles will be minute to a casual observer. What will set them apart is the gameplay. Who has the best car list, the funnest modes and single player, the best multiplayer options, and more. Kaz still thinks graphics and physics will sell his game like it did 10 years ago. It wont. Everybody has caught up. And without clearly superior graphics and physics suddenly the other weak elements in your game are exposed even moreso.

It's Kaz's job to understand all this. GT6 is the first time his franchise has reached a turning point. All he has to do is turn. The road straight ahead leads off a cliff. I doubt he will take the franchsie that way, so I think GT7 should turn out pretty good.

I'm a relative newbie in GT series. I started in GT-5 and did it start to finish a number of times. I even created another entity and had two games running at once. Very handy for the endurance series. I really really enjoyed racing in GT-5 and I'm an ex-racer in real life. Where else can you race balls-out, crash, and walk away unscathed? And have no astronomical repair bills??

I have to say that GT-6 is somehow lacking. It is lacking in an intangible way, and I can only say that I find it very frustrating, rather than FUN!! I find myself gritting my teeth and swearing most of the time, racing cars with little or no stickum and restricted to tires that resemble cinnamon rolls for traction. My wife can't stand being in the same room with me when I race??? I usually come away from GT-6 wanting to kick the dog, except I don't have one.

So for me, GT-6 is lacking in the enjoyment factor, and I miss the fun I had in playing GT-5. BTW, I will be 71 at the end of the month so I think my assessment may have some validity.
Thanks for listening, Mustangxr

 

[machschnel]

Well... 350 posts and noone could answer this very legit question: what is kaz's vision for GT ?

Kaz's vision for GT is very simple to understand (at least in my opinion).

It's a game that focuses on the "driving" of the car - test driving over a thousand different cars to find out what makes each individual car tick, trying to find something special, something to appreciate, in even the must unlikely places all while having the ability to take photos of your adventure along the way. The games evolving physics allow full immersion to take hold.

But the games problems stem from having to play through a seemingly tacked on A-Spec to get to the content you wish to experience. An A-Spec that features a majority of racing (as apposed to "driving"). average A.I., no relevance to real world racing (flags, starts, safety car etc.) plus reasonably poor payouts in relation to the cost of some cars. Add to this some audio and visual infidelity, an obscure Star progression, a very "meh" tuning system, a lackluster customization process and you have all the ingredients for a very confused game.

Gran Turismo could be a great experience, but it's locked behind a wall made up of all the game's inadequacies, which you must experience over and over and over again, to break through.

 

[Cosbuster]

average A.I.

Oh god, I wish.

 

[eSZee]

The purity of the racing in GT6...

Is there a secret code or something I have to enter to get this game mode?
Guys, help me out. I'll send red velvet cupcakes.

There is some kind of gestalt magic, some kind of ghost in the machine code, that turns gaming journalists like amar212 into devoted fans

Laughable defense. Amar likes it so it must be great. You only know of Amar because of GTP.
I have ZILCH against Amar but if I had never come to GTP, I'd have never heard of him.
The analogies that can be used here are so morally wrong and distasteful that I won't bring them up.

 

[jimipitbull]

Did you stop and actually think about what you just posted? I mean why would you blame the original buyer, I mean was there a scratch on the disc or corrupted data (there wouldn't be) or something that they can be faulted for?

In reality second hand, third hand purchase, trade it doesn't matter. Each user has a right to make a critique even if they didn't buy the game at full price like you, I don't know where some of you guys come up with these arbitrary rules of how things should work...rather wish the world worked.

What I posted was directly relevant to the post I quoted, and was further clarified a couple of posts later. Please try and use the full context, instead of this selective nitpicking.

 

[LMSCorvetteGT2]

What I posted was directly relevant to the post I quoted, and was further clarified a couple of posts later. Please try and use the full context, instead of this selective nitpicking.

For what you said it was relevant and I say this due to your posting history, that only a small group if any with varying guidelines of your own discretion that you can't even keep up with should have the right in how to critique GT/PD. In that moment you went into that territory I disagreed as I have with you in the past and engaged you in conversation about it.

So in this case, you don't feel people who get the game in a trade or second hand and so have less right to speak out against GT, then those who pay for it at full price?

 

[jimipitbull]

For what you said it was relevant and I say this due to your posting history, that only a small group if any with varying guidelines of your own discretion that you can't even keep up with should have the right in how to critique GT/PD. In that moment you went into that territory I disagreed as I have with you in the past and engaged you in conversation about it.

So in this case, you don't feel people who get the game in a trade or second hand and so have less right to speak out against GT, then those who pay for it at full price?

I'll spell it out for you. My post was questioning the post I quoted. The question marks in my post clearly indicate that.
The guy I quoted, even answered, indicating that a rational person could see that it was a question.
I then replied to him, apologising for my mistake in interpreting his post.

.

As for this reading between the lines that you keep trying to clarify, there is nothing to read between the lines.

 

[LMSCorvetteGT2]

I'll spell it out for you. My post was questioning the post I quoted. The question marks in my post clearly indicate that.
The guy I quoted, even answered, indicating that a rational person could see that it was a question.
I then replied to him, apologising for my mistake in interpreting his post.

.

As for this reading between the lines that you keep trying to clarify, there is nothing to read between the lines.

And now I'm asking you a question on the matter, because of reasons I explained. If you don't want to answer the question then says so, as for reasons to avoid and argument. I'm not reading between any lines you have a style of posting in favor of all things GT/PD, this a thread to talk about GT/PD and their leader and why people think he should go. I don't see anything wrong in me asking why you think some of these people don't have or have validity to speak out.

So once again can you answer my question? Since it seems you don't want to I'm fine with saying you rather not answer it..

 

[jimipitbull]

And now I'm asking you a question on the matter, because of reasons I explained. If you don't want to answer the question then says so, as for reasons to avoid and argument. I'm not reading between any lines you have a style of posting in favor of all things GT/PD, this a thread to talk about GT/PD and their leader and why people think he should go. I don't see anything wrong in me asking why you think some of these people don't have or have validity to speak out.

So once again can you answer my question? Since it seems you don't want to I'm fine with saying you rather not answer it..

Your question is based on incorrect assumption - as mentioned, I was questioning someone, not making a statement.
That said, I am happy to humour you through it.

So in this case, you don't feel people who get the game in a trade or second hand and so have less right to speak out against GT, then those who pay for it at full price?

I don't feel.

 

[LMSCorvetteGT2]

Your question is based on incorrect assumption - as mentioned, I was questioning someone, not making a statement.
That said, I am happy to humour you though it.



I don't feel.

Well surprise surprise, I'll make sure to remember that for the future.

 

[jimipitbull]

Well surprise surprise, I'll make sure to remember that for the future.

I'd suggest writing it down, alongside the question. It will help keep it in context for future use.

Mainly because the wording of your question is somewhat loaded with a double negative. You may also note that I have only answered the first negative.

 

[LMSCorvetteGT2]

I'd suggest writing it down, alongside the question. It will help keep it in context for future use.

Mainly because the wording of your question is somewhat loaded with a double negative.

Why would I have to write it down, no reason to be a smart ass, book marking it saves time and is much more convenient. So is a saved printscreen. Also the suggestion that I would give you a loaded question (when you really don't need one) is quite hurtful, it stings jimi. Oh the pain.

 

[jimipitbull]

Why would I have to write it down, no reason to be a smart ass, book marking it saves time and is much more convenient. So is a saved printscreen. Also the suggestion that I would give you a loaded question (when you really don't need one) is quite hurtful, it stings jimi. Oh the pain.

No LMScorvettes were injured during the construction of my posts. Jimi takes no responsibility for the anatomically incorrect poses a reader may form while reading his posts.

 

[Conza]

I think that the GT game series has always delivered an excellent driving simulator for its time, all 6 main games, and no video game will ever meet its potential.

But since GT4, the potential and the hype has grown much further than what has been delivered, if changing Kaz for someone else fixed that, I'd be all for removing Kaz.

However, I don't think that would fix the problem, I think Kaz just needs to convince Sony to give him more staff, and to look at the competitors AND the community here more, and start copying ideas like 'hmm, the latest Super Cars are of interest to people', 'Let's go to any and every length we can to get Porsche', 'add competitor's Feature X', ect. EDIT: Deliver content we promise 'when' we promise, to make the scheduled release of the next title worth being delivered on time as well.

I think many people are questioning whether or not they will buy GT7, let alone a PS4 at all, Kaz needs something amazing for most of us to make that leap, and hopefully a whole new bunch as well. As it stands, I might check out PC sims and leave consoles for good.

 

[ShiftingGears]

Yes, that is true. And while the buck stops with him I would think that not all ideas implemented are his alone even though he may very well have final say on what is given to the paying public. And it is more than likely that Sony would have a major say in when PD is 'urged' to ship the game to market despite at what stage of development the game is at. So removing one person alone is unlikely to make the difference required of the finished product.

We can all point the finger at Sony, but look at GT5. It was delayed for 3 years and was still a total mess when it was launched. It is Kaz's job to ensure that development runs on schedule and that deadlines are met.

However, I don't think that would fix the problem, I think Kaz just needs to convince Sony to give him more staff, and to look at the competitors AND the community here more...

Kaz just needs to do a lot of things that he hasn't, and probably won't. That is the problem. For instance, refusing to hire more staff has nothing to do with Sony, he just chooses not to.

 

[Shirrako]

None of us would be here without Kaz, there would be no GTPlanet or Gran Turismo if it wasn't for Kaz's vision for the "perfect simulator."

I think the man deserve all the respect he received so far and even more when it comes down to dedication, it's been over 15 years and Kaz is still very dedicated to the Gran Turismo franchise and motorsport.

Regardless of what some say about Kazunori, the respect i have and always will for that man is truly enormous.

Kaz will stay until he achieves his goal in creating the perfect Gran Turismo game that will never get old and will be a fresh new experience every time you play the game.

 

[eSZee]

However, I don't think that would fix the problem, I think Kaz just needs to convince Sony to give him more staff

I wasn't aware SONY decides who Kaz can or can't hire to his own company.

 

[Cosbuster]

None of us would be here without Kaz, there would be no GTPlanet or Gran Turismo if it wasn't for Kaz's vision for the "perfect simulator."

I think the man deserve all the respect he received so far and even more when it comes down to dedication, it's been over 15 years and Kaz is still very dedicated to the Gran Turismo franchise and motorsport.

Regardless of what some say about Kazunori, the respect i have and always will for that man is truly enormous.

Kaz will stay until he achieves his goal in creating the perfect Gran Turismo game that will never get old and will be a fresh new experience every time you play the game.

Having respect for someone =/= thinking he's the man for the job.

 

[LMSCorvetteGT2]

No LMScorvettes were injured during the construction of my posts. Jimi takes no responsibility for the anatomically incorrect poses a reader may form while reading his posts.

What does having a personal jab at me that is in no relation to the topic add to the thread, other than trying to get the last word in?

 

[jimipitbull]

What does having a personal jab at me that is in no relation to the topic add to the thread, other than trying to get the last word in?

You claimed you were hurt, I provided a disclaimer.

I'm not sure how that could be interpreted as a jab at you, but it seems you found a way.

 

[LMSCorvetteGT2]

You claimed you were hurt, I provided a disclaimer.

I'm not sure how that could be interpreted as a jab at you, but it seems you found a way.

Oh that. Sorry, should have but a sarcasm tag, I'll make sure to do so next time.