Wikileaks
- Thread starter Sage
- 511 comments
- 31,736 views
- 5,588
- Dahlonega, GA
- ryzno
Ok, so we should change the law to where you get off cause the accusing party committed a crime too?
She took a plea in the first place, they should have set it like that if that was their original intention.
(I need to fact check the plea, I might be getting it confused.)
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- 22,551
- Arizona
- HamiltonMP427
You actually make enough to be charged taxes by the Federal Internal Revenue Service? Because if not then I find it hard how you can be upset about supposed tax money spent, especially money spent that is a drop in the bucket compared to waste spending going to the area of government to begin with...
There is a whistle-blower act which seemed to go ignored along with many other things surrounding what Manning divulged so yes there is laws in the books, the federal government instead enacted the espionage act. Also you clearly are out of your depth here so, read this for starters...
http://time.com/4638617/chelsea-manning-commutation-obama-whistleblower-legacy/
Also be happy, Obama is still a horrible person when it comes to detaining and investigating leakers or aka whistle blowers. This changes nothing other than clearing his image, by commuting one high profile case.
- 5,588
- Dahlonega, GA
- ryzno
I don't know if I should be offended by this line.
Yes I do and as a 1099 contractor, I have to pay my own taxes out of pocket. My taxes are not taken off the top. I have also explained if in depth with @Danoff and @GTsail (I belive in this very thread)edit: the election thread
why I still haven't gotten married. It would change our tax bracket drastically and we'd lose a huge chunk of earned income/child credit from our son(my tax debt would almost take every penny of her refund). Not to mention the penalties for operating as a small business, instead of personal income and also the penalties for getting my predicted quarterly payment incorrect! Yes, we are using some "loopholes".....Since I started as a 1099 5 years ago, I've been paying a lot more attention to where my tax dollars go.
Those "drops in the bucket" add up... So call it what you want. It is a waste of tax payer money. If she was that gung ho about changing her sex, she should have paid for it herself. Her personal issues are not Americas problem. It was a flat out waste of tax money! The surgery cost us anywhere from $10k-$24k(my yearly tax debt is over 1/6th of her procedure on the high end of possible cost...(a waste of tax dollars and you know it!) TBH I saw the price of yearly hormones is over $2k per year.
So in that respect, thank god they released her!
As for the case, I'll have a read of the link you provided and some additional Googling when I get a chance and then respond, hopefully more educated.
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- 22,551
- Arizona
- HamiltonMP427
I don't know if I should be offended by this line.
Yes I do and as a 1099 contractor, I have to pay my own taxes out of pocket. My taxes are not taken off the top. I have also explained if in depth with @Danoff and @GTsail (I belive in this very thread)edit: the election thread
Since I started as a 1099 5 years ago, I've been paying a lot more attention to where my tax dollars go.
Okay good, if you take it as an insult that's you. But too many times people pull the whole "why is the government wasting my tax dollars". When they have no right, take the question as a question not a personal slight.
Those "drops in the bucket" add up... So call it what you want. It is a waste of tax payer money. If she was that gung ho about changing her sex, she should have paid for it herself. Her personal issues are not Americas problem. It was a flat out waste of tax money! The surgery cost us anywhere from $10k-$24k(my yearly tax debt is over 1/6th of her procedure on the high end of possible cost...(a waste of tax dollars and you know it!) TBH I saw the price of yearly hormones is over $2k per year.
So in that respect, thank god they released her!
I'm calling it fact, considering the excess amount of money that doesn't get spent in that area of government and wasted monies...that is a drop in the bucket. If you actually think it would have gone to building a federal hospital or whatever else you think it could have, then sorry it wouldn't have. The tri-care spending out of the DoD budget is what it came from and one of many for tri-care that is allotted in the first place. If it didn't go to this it would have gone to something else tri-care centered or somewhere else in the military budget. Considering that the military annually gets three quarters of a trillion dollars to spend, you argument lacks.
http://www.military.com/daily-news/...sex-change-operations-transgender-troops.html
Once again as highlighted in another thread, there is plenty of over the top waste and micromanagement to create it this really isn't that. As for the onset of this, do you have a link that provides proof that Manning made the government pay for the transition? Because what I've seen in Manning was already in the process before the arrest.
As for the case, I'll have a read of the link you provided and some additional Googling when I get a chance and then respond, hopefully more educated.
Okay.
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- 10,456
- United States
- WrecklessAbandon
It is 100% absurd and ridiculous to make taxpayers pay for people in prison to get sex changes.
Period.
This whole "well other money gets wasted too!" argument is silly at best.
Screw it, we're 20 trillion in the hole what's another 10 right?
Spoken like a true....you fill in the blank. One of the dumbest arguments I've ever heard.
Period.
This whole "well other money gets wasted too!" argument is silly at best.
Screw it, we're 20 trillion in the hole what's another 10 right?
Spoken like a true....you fill in the blank. One of the dumbest arguments I've ever heard.
- 13,905
- Adelaide
- Neomone
You think that she did it to take advantage of the system? Hmm.
People in prison are still people. The prison still has a duty of care, and that includes mental health. You may be unhappy about it, but living in a society that is happy to refuse prisoners medical treatment seems worse.
Certainly. However, it's not about cruel and unusual punishment, which one could argue making a woman live as a man is.
Please take off the tin foil hat.
I do not. She committed the acts that are attributed to her.
But I do think that crime takes on a different light when it's whistleblowing. I'm not sure that leaking information that exposes war crimes by the government counts as espionage or aiding the enemy. I think at best there's a discussion to be had and a case to be made for both sides.
It's certainly not as black and white as "lock her up and throw away the key".
I do.
It is far more serious. As I said above, I'm not sure whether normal criminal standards apply when it's whistleblowing to expose a far more serious crime.
Not necessarily. But whistleblowing is a thing. It should be judged on a case by case basis, but if it was truly necessary to commit a crime in order to expose a larger crime, then yes, I think it should at the very least be judged leniently.
How much do you think a year's anti-depressants costs? How about methadone? How about drugs for Alzheimers? Parkinsons? MS? How much do you think it costs to keep someone in gaol for a year in the first place?
I don't think giving people health care is a waste of tax dollars, but maybe that's because I live in a country where the government supports the health system and I'm totally OK with paying for that.
But I think healthcare is a completely different topic to whistleblowing and you're not doing anyone any favours by conflating the two.
- 22,551
- Arizona
- HamiltonMP427
Didn't know they were a 10 trillion expense for what was done in the case of manning. In reality throwing slights is probably the most asinine argument to be had. As I just said (which you clearly didn't read, nice knee jerk), is that this is a systematic expense under tri-care, he was already in the process, tri-care paid for the rest after. He was still part of the military, and still under tri-care. So one, it's a system for many not just her, if it wasn't done for Manning it would have been used on another person and others in the future since it's part of the system now.
I mean I find it funny that no one complains about the wasted money in torturing the guy for exposing the reality of a corrupt system. Nah let's not complain about what the U.S. supposedly doesn't do, let's complain about a guy leaking what should be public domain, under a given act. Let's then further complain that the poor old U.S. gov't not only had this evil doer give info, but then go under a finishing sex change that was supposedly so costly.
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- 10,456
- United States
- WrecklessAbandon
Didn't know I said a single sex change cost 10 trillion dollars.
Your argument was "money gets wasted, so waste money".
That's one of the most ridiculous things I've ever heard, sorry if that's offensive.
This isnt directed to you, but just for me to put it out there...
I'm really tired of this crap. Pretty soon sex changes will be a right and covered by access. I heard a woman say free birth control is her right the other day.
This country, maybe the world is completely obsessed with making up new "rights" to obtain free stuff, and as if that's not enough, now anyone that thinks people should buy their own milk is a "racist homophobic xenophobic" blah blah blah blah.
Nobody "needs" a sex change. Nobody.
They want one. That's it.
A mental institution, maybe. Need a sex change? You've got to be kidding.
Its an atrocious, audacious waste of money, and not just money, money literally taken from other people.
I'm positive none of the people supporting this would be fine with me withdrawing money from their pay to get my nose done. Or to get hair transplant. Or to get a spray tan. Or to buy me birth control.
The only reason it's on the table is because people are so used to be stolen from and their money misused.
xyloscissor
(Banned)
- 933
- United States
@CSLACR
Lets wait and see what happens to Obamacare in the following years, we might still be able to repeal it, get rid of the corruption from government, get rid of the corruption in the insurance companies and actually have free trade affordable healthcare that makes sense.
Right now it is such a joke I don't even care that he/she had whatever cut off or at who's expense. It is really that bad.
Lets wait and see what happens to Obamacare in the following years, we might still be able to repeal it, get rid of the corruption from government, get rid of the corruption in the insurance companies and actually have free trade affordable healthcare that makes sense.
Right now it is such a joke I don't even care that he/she had whatever cut off or at who's expense. It is really that bad.
- 20,681
- TenEightyOne
- TenEightyOne
- 10,456
- United States
- WrecklessAbandon
It's already being repealed isn't it?
But it was bad before that too. It's all about insurance.
Example, get in a car crash and have your car towed. Oh that's 60$ a day storage plus etc. Oh you don't have full coverage insurance? Ok we'll drop the storage just pay for the tow.
In hospitals and doctor offices, the entire practice is based on a wealthy insurance company paying, and if the person doesn't have insurance, they assume nothing will be paid.
This is because you can charge big insurance 100x what john doe can afford.
As long as we have insurance it won't change. Look up how much cheaper identical procedures cost in canada, and it's always less, sometimes as much as 75% cheaper.
Why? Because the government in canada won't pay a doctor $1000 for a vasectomy that takes 10 minutes. They pay $50.
You can spend up to $1000 in the U.S.
Insurance.
And your conclusion that some people must have this for "mental health" is even more mind blowingly incisive.
The fact that humans survived without sex changes for tens of thousands of years means nothing, I know. Just think of all the women trapped in mens bodies that were forced to live with what nature gave them.
"Sarcastic gasp"
I can't live with my nose.
Give me money for my mental health, NOW!
xyloscissor
(Banned)
- 933
- United States
@CSLACR
The insurance companies have been running a scam on us for years, but that is not to say it can't be and shouldn't be fixed under law. We could repeal almost all federal law on the matter, give the power back to the states for one thing but mostly free up the market. Maybe Trump can lean on congress in that regard, it would also be nice to see a case against the insurance companies heard in the supreme court, that could help, especially after his appointments.
My point was this one sexchange is not the problem.
As for what he/she leaked, the video we've all seen I'm glad came out but as for all that correspondence stuff I think there is a time and place for that. We should pay closer attention to who we elect and why, we should also scrutinize them in calm times and not wait till we are knee deep in a war.
The insurance companies have been running a scam on us for years, but that is not to say it can't be and shouldn't be fixed under law. We could repeal almost all federal law on the matter, give the power back to the states for one thing but mostly free up the market. Maybe Trump can lean on congress in that regard, it would also be nice to see a case against the insurance companies heard in the supreme court, that could help, especially after his appointments.
My point was this one sexchange is not the problem.
As for what he/she leaked, the video we've all seen I'm glad came out but as for all that correspondence stuff I think there is a time and place for that. We should pay closer attention to who we elect and why, we should also scrutinize them in calm times and not wait till we are knee deep in a war.
- 20,681
- TenEightyOne
- TenEightyOne
Apart from those who had altering surgery, of course. You'll be able to provide a source for your claim that nobody has died due to mental health issues until recently, I presume?
Okay, you need to see a proper Doctor, mental illness is genuine and there's help available for you. That includes appropriate recommendations for all kinds of procedures or treatments to help with physical appearance or mental wellbeing.
You're welcome.
- 2,801
- fatkrakr
Now people are dying without a sex change operation?
xyloscissor
(Banned)
- 933
- United States
- 33,155
- Hammerhead Garage
So, we should continue to force transgender people to live in bodies that aren't the ones they feel comfortable in because it was good enough for their historical predecessors despite a) the hitherto unspoken trauma that they would have suffered, and b) the inability of previous generations to provide the treatment they needed (and likely would have provided had they had the means)?
- 20,681
- TenEightyOne
- TenEightyOne
xyloscissor
(Banned)
- 933
- United States
Not in the U.S. they would not have, homosexuality was illegal up until very recently and I'm not sure some states still don't have sodomy laws on the books. The military would definitely not have provided that service and still will not to this day. Why did he join the service exactly? Or why did the service accept him if he was mentally ill?
As far as mental illness is concerned I'm quite surprised to see gender confusion considered a mental illness by some of the most liberal people I see on the net.
- 33,155
- Hammerhead Garage
Why does anyone join? To serve their country. It was only later when the disillusionment set in, and Manning felt compelled to act.
xyloscissor
(Banned)
- 933
- United States
I edited while you were posting so I'll add that the service should not have accepted a mentally ill person. Why does anyone Join? I know I would not join an organization that has explicit rules against me, our servicemen are not protected they way civilians are.
- 2,801
- fatkrakr
So now wanting a sex change is a mental disorder with a name "Gender Dysphoria" and one of the cures for this disorder is self mutilation?
- 33,155
- Hammerhead Garage
Being transgender is not a mental illness.
xyloscissor
(Banned)
- 933
- United States
But it is still an illness that requires a sex change? I'm getting more confused by the minute.
- 2,801
- fatkrakr
- 20,681
- TenEightyOne
- TenEightyOne
Dysmorphia is, therefore being transgender can involve mental unwellness.
xyloscissor
(Banned)
- 933
- United States
If that is the case he was clearly not fit for duty and most likely not fit for service either. Slipped through the cracks and most likely some knew but didn't want to get into all the sticky mess that comes with that sort of thing in the military today due to PC.
No wonder he leaked what he did, it was out of spite.
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- 20,681
- TenEightyOne
- TenEightyOne
Quite possibly, if that is the case.
- 10,456
- United States
- WrecklessAbandon
That's the problem right there.
The minute you hear someone doesn't think it should be done FOR them you revert to saying they're "forcing" people to "live in the wrong body".
Aside from that, the idea of "having to live in the wrong body" is insane.
Anyone that feels suicidal over the body they live in needs mental help. That's been accepted as fact for everyone and still pretty much is EXCEPT for transgender suddenly transgender people.
Suicidal people need mental help.
To me that's a fact, in any and every scenario.
- 33,155
- Hammerhead Garage
Who said that they feel suicidal? There may be some people who feel suicidal if they have trouble dealing with the trauma, but suicidal thoughts are not exclusively associated with being transgender.
No, I don't think that people who have little to no understanding of the subject should be the ones making the decisions. That you keep characterising being transgender as a mental illness demonstrates that you don't know what you're talking about.
