Will the relatively poor sales of GT6 affect the development of GTSport?
- Thread starter Johnnypenso
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- Windsor, Ontario, Canada
- Johnnypenso
You said there were no commercials in the largest market in the world. The largest market for GT, comprising nearly 2 out of 3 sales, is Europe. Maybe I should have assumed you didn't fact check and were talking about some other market?
That's not how it works. If you make a claim, you have to back it up with the appropriate links and quotes.
VG Chartz numbers are nowhere near reliable in the digital download era. Haven't you been following the discussion and GTP News?
Have yet to see any facts from you.
No impact eh?
GT Sport?
New name?
New game mode (Sports)
FIA partnership promised for GT6 now it's own completely separate game instead?
We have limited information but even with the small amount we have, we can see that GT is moving in a different direction and somewhat distancing this title from the rest of the series. If we're honest about the situation and timing, we have to be at least open to the possibility that some of these changes may have been prompted by the 50% drop in sales for GT6.
MKVSupra
(Banned)
- 163
- huzar95
You said there were no commercials in the largest market in the world. The largest market for GT, comprising nearly 2 out of 3 sales, is Europe. Maybe I should have assumed you didn't fact check and were talking about some other market?
That's not how it works. If you make a claim, you have to back it up with the appropriate links and quotes.
VG Chartz numbers are nowhere near reliable in the digital download era. Haven't you been following the discussion and GTP News?
Have yet to see any facts from you.
No impact eh?
GT Sport?
New name?
New game mode (Sports)
FIA partnership promised for GT6 now it's own completely separate game instead?
We have limited information but even with the small amount we have, we can see that GT is moving in a different direction and somewhat distancing this title from the rest of the series. If we're honest about the situation and timing, we have to be at least open to the possibility that some of these changes may have been prompted by the 50% drop in sales for GT6.
Largest market, don't spin bs to fit your rebuttal. You know what that means. And You are still avoiding the fact US got no tv marketing. The place that GT5 only sold nearly 3 million copies. What a tiny irrelevant market you must think it is.
Have yet to see a single facts from any of you, for a while you all been going on of clearly joke numbers. Its all opinions and emotions from a former fanbase that is heavily jaded and cant move on. None here have backed up anything with any link.
Vg is very good on old numbers, they just steal them from legit sources, its the new monthly ones they suck at. But its ok i see Gt haters will deny and denounce anything that shows why software sales drop like a rock when a new gen hits.
If they can sale a demo, why not sale the Fia whatever it is as a separate release ? How is GTsport all that different from what they attempted with GT2000 or did with the first Prologue. Past sales are the reason right ?
GTsport is what Prologue was, extra sales of the same content. GT has severely been underutilized. A massive franchise should have more releases then it has. I hope there is a Sport in between the numbered releases.
GT is moving in the same direction Kaz has been talking about for 2 decades, all that is changing is technology is giving him the ability to do what he wanted. PS4 superior online infrastructure and the whole gaming market foray into more online social gaming is whats happening.
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Clearly your definition of "largest market" is not quite the same as everyone else's.
- 2,993
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- jimipitbull
I believe Europe is a union of countries, not a market. For arguments sake, if it was one market, which language do you think would be used? Would recommended retail price be the same in all of Europe? How many different PSN stores are there in Europe?
Do you think Australia's sales figures might be included in the Asian, or European markets?
Is Asia all one market? Does it include China and North Korea?
Whilst the PD website shows sales by regions, it makes no reference to markets.
The United States is a...well the clue is in the name. Worldwide businesses look at Europe as one market. Asia is indeed the other major market in the world, but I think you knew that.
- 28,470
- Windsor, Ontario, Canada
- Johnnypenso
The largest market for GT is Europe. Fact.
Incorrect and I believe that's know as the Ad Hominem Logical Fallacy
2013 sales are not old numbers. VG doesn't measure digital sales and digital sales were huge in 2013, evidenced by them being more than 50% off on GT6 sales.
I'm not making any claims one way or the other, just saying we have to be open to the possibility that part of the reason for this separate release could be because of the flat performance of GT6. The FIA program was promised for GT6 remember? Spring of 2015? What made them withdraw a feature promised for the current game and put it into a separate title on another platform? It's not out of the realm of possibility that they were looking at GT6 sales and came to the conclusion that it was a waste of time and effort putting the FIA content into a dying game, and decided to throw it into a separate game on the new and shiny PS4.
As are all games.
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- jimipitbull
With each PSN store having differing content, they are a good indication of different markets.
Last time I looked, Japan was part of Asia, yet PD has them listed separately. Different markets perhaps?
If you would like to do some further research, are game classification laws the same across all EU countries? If not, then different markets.
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And when have you ever seen any major game company state their sales in Italy, or Spain alone? "Sales of The Last Of Us were great in Bulgaria!" They exist as separate markets but are also commonly looked at as one large market by businesses worldwide.
Again, I'm pretty sure you know this and are just arguing for the sake of arguing like you always used to do.
Jim Ryan, Sony Europe CEO on the matter:
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- jimipitbull
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I'm sure Sony do care about the sales of other games, in order to ascertain the weight of factors affecting sales.
That's not really much of an argument simply to call those you disagree with "apologists".
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- TPC_Raccooon23
- CRaccoon23
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- birmingham
- claudiocaniggia8
I guess opinions are formed largely by how we view the franchise. If you still think north of 5m sales for gt6 would've sounded alarm bells for Sony/pd, fair enough. Obviously Sony will know the real numbers at all times. Also Sony will know how all other software sales have been affected by the ps4 launch. So I'd suggest it's possible Sony are/were delighted by gt6 sales.
My thoughts on why the FIA championship got pulled from gt6? Probably the huge delay in implementing the course maker. I don't believe the CM is directly involved in the FIA championship, however the CM drastically stretched out the games completion. The games design suggests it was intended to take far less time to complete(for the user) than gt5. No endurance races and the star system for example. I believe as the delay increased its crossed over into when Kaz/pd wanted to put out a ps4 offering. Maybe the ideas for the FIA championships means a pre season on the ps3 is irrelevant and indeed now a separate GT game on ps4 makes perfect sense. That's my best guess anyway, it's not numbers that's changed there path, rather unforeseen delays to 6.
My thoughts on why the FIA championship got pulled from gt6? Probably the huge delay in implementing the course maker. I don't believe the CM is directly involved in the FIA championship, however the CM drastically stretched out the games completion. The games design suggests it was intended to take far less time to complete(for the user) than gt5. No endurance races and the star system for example. I believe as the delay increased its crossed over into when Kaz/pd wanted to put out a ps4 offering. Maybe the ideas for the FIA championships means a pre season on the ps3 is irrelevant and indeed now a separate GT game on ps4 makes perfect sense. That's my best guess anyway, it's not numbers that's changed there path, rather unforeseen delays to 6.
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- England
Either way it is totally irresponsible to use numbers that are proven bull**** time and time again. What is the excuse for hardware numbers from the same hacksite being off in the millions? Unless you think that people have been downloading hardware for the last 5 years too.
Anyway, for arguments sake, let's just say you are right and digital sales made up the rest of your numbers. You do realise that is a massive slap in the face to your own agenda your trying to push? Around 50% income per unit at retail Vs 100% income via the PS Store... So 2.5 million units digitally would be the equivalent of 5 million at retail for SCE.
You're just putting nails in your own coffin by defending VGChartz.
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- NewAesthetic
- SlipZtrEm
Indeed, I'm still waiting on any proof of some of the claims you've made.
As someone who has repeatedly attacked members because of their opinions, I'd say it's you that needs to rein in your emotions.
Indeed, I'm still waiting on any proof of some of the claims you've made.
Your post quality is consistently low. Please re-read the second bullet point of the AUP, and start following it. Thanks.
- 28,470
- Windsor, Ontario, Canada
- Johnnypenso
Unless you have some figures for revenue/unit digital vs. hard copy, sales mix for digital/hard copy, cost figures etc., anything concerning profitability is pure speculation and mostly irrelevant anyway. What we know for sure is that GT6 sold 5million or less units. Sources have been linked numerous times in the thread. The OP specifically refers to unit sales and the potential for a change in the direction of the next GT game due to those lower sales. There is no coffin to put nails in, it's an open ended question.Either way it is totally irresponsible to use numbers that are proven bull**** time and time again. What is the excuse for hardware numbers from the same hacksite being off in the millions? Unless you think that people have been downloading hardware for the last 5 years too.
Anyway, for arguments sake, let's just say you are right and digital sales made up the rest of your numbers. You do realise that is a massive slap in the face to your own agenda your trying to push? Around 50% income per unit at retail Vs 100% income via the PS Store... So 2.5 million units digitally would be the equivalent of 5 million at retail for SCE.
You're just putting nails in your own coffin by defending VGChartz.
What?
- 489
- England
I am sure that they may be examples of this out there regarding games and in my opinion I think a lot of companies do regard Europe as a single market, at the very least least in a sales breakdown sense. But the biggest and most recent example of Europe not being regarded as one big market in the console space is the launch of Xbox One.
UK, Ireland, Spain, France and Germany all released before other European markets meaning Microsoft did not regard Europe as a singular market.
I like the way you always try to narrow it down to the OP every time someone throws up an argument but constantly go off on a speculation trip yourself. In the OP edit. You actually speculate the very next sentence to what you call a source! It's really really hypocritical whether you state it or not.
It's like the time you tried to hide behind the AUP when you were constantly breaking it, remember that? I do! 👍 You also have to remember that this is the same OP that was flat out wrong for the first 60 days of it's existence despite being pointed out to you time and time again and even then it took two too many posts from myself to get you to apologise to the good folks you misled. In fact it is still wrong to this day if I wanted to be pedantic, as you have not included the potential sales of GT: PSP in your OP edit as that is still available in stores digitally and playable on Vita.
The word 'train wreck' comes to mind.
Well that very well may be true but in the context of this discussion, which was GTs biggest market, surely we can all agree that Sony and PD primarily look at the three basic, large markets first and foremost. I mean that quote from Jim Ryan pretty much says as much and also note his position, Sony Europe CEO.
Again that's not to say they totally ignore the individual markets, I'm sure PD/Sony are well aware and look at sales in individual countries but they mostly look at them on the whole and if you're going to lump North America into one market, it's only fair to also look at Europe as one total market.
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- England
From what I gather this discussion you guys are partaking in is about marketing and the biggest gaming market, is it not? If so then no, companies market the product to suit the market. Look at the cover stars and advertising per country for the likes of FIFA 16. Going into it you can see the major differences per country in all regions regardless of the regional breakdown from head office coming out of it. You're simply not going to air an advert featuring Liverpool's Jordan Henderson in Italy for example, that's why they paid for the rights to use Inter Milan's Mauro Icardi, and so on.
So internally EA do not regard Europe as an individual market (no regional market is generalised by them judging by the marketing across all territories).
So technically, to say the US market is the biggest individual market is correct. Collectively in the divisions amongst companies, Europe is the biggest and from the outside looking in that is the case for us, to generalise, so to speak. But internally, companies will use a break down on a county per country basis and adapt their strategies accordingly.
So basically, you are both right and you are both wrong. He's right technically, you're right generally.
We are talking specifically about Gran Turismo though. EA and their coverstars for sports games are not really relevant to what was being discussed. GT games, to the best of my knowledge, are identical across Europe in their content, artwork, and overall promotion.
So specifically, for this game, Europe is looked at as one whole market. The PD website suggests so, the European CEO suggests so. The biggest market for Gran Turismo is Europe.
So specifically, for this game, Europe is looked at as one whole market. The PD website suggests so, the European CEO suggests so. The biggest market for Gran Turismo is Europe.
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- Toronto, Canada
- times_fade
The fact that additional effort goes into getting the different language copies to their destination would surely guarantee they know almost excactly how much is shipped to each country.. some exceptions of course Germany Austria Switzerland for instance..
North American distribution is far easier and straight forward. The European retail network being far more complex just because retail is much more branched out and involves more work to get smaller orders to much more retailers (no sources)
Does any of that change most GT sales being in Europe?
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- Toronto, Canada
- times_fade
GT sells way more in europe, racing games do not sell that well in the US at all.
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- England
Oh really? Then why did you write this earlier?
So if we are specifically talking Gran Turismo here then either you should not have wrote that sentence or are trying to pull the old switcheroo on me
Either way, to think that going into the market you treat it the same is wrong. Coming out of it, sure, they are the regional heads and in general this is accepted as the norm. But technically they're all different from the way they operate in respect to marketing and are even tracked in different ways by different companies on exit. That's why Sony has general managers and marketing directors for each country. That's why we get different charts for each country every week. Just because Sony or PD generalise to the public in no way, shape or form mean they generalise internally. Also means that in no way, shape or form we should either but we just do because it's easier to grasp.
I myself generalise because it is easier and it's okay to. But I'm not stupid enough to think the market is singular.
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I'm not done here and neither are you, you said.
Yes PD is a business but you are referring to both businesses and major game companies thus ruling out that.
So I gave you two prime examples of both a major game company and a business in the form of EA and Microsoft respectively. You are now trying to narrow down the targets you already widened mate so don't give me that 'going into different examples' rubbish. You set the goals, I hit those targets. You can run away all you like for all I care, just don't tell lies on the way out the door.
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