Worldwide nonsense

MonzaDriver1
Yes but I could reply that people who worked at the simulation,
set the standard just around my lap time.
And they know better.
Ciao.
Click to expand...

I think i understand what you are trying to say, the problem is not the 2´17 laptimes, is the fact that you are expecting the laptimes in the game to replicate real life.

Maybe 2´24 is the proper time in real life, but in GT, as real as it is, you get the benefit of restarts, non degradable tires, flawless gearbox and clutch and most importantly, no g-forces and no fear factor.

Of course the lap times in a videogame are way faster than in real life. You can draw the absolute perfect line around the track and that´s what the top times are doing.

If you are doing 2.24s just put a ghost in front of you and try to chase it down. I´m sure you will find more time and realise just how much more the car can take.

I think it would be interesting in this years academy if they put the guys out for a hot lap to see how much of a difference they have in real life x GT Academy.

I´m sure if the car is the same some of the 2´16 guys could lap the real track in 2´20 or 2´19:tup:

It´s all about practice and trying different things. Sometimes less is more. Braking more on the loop and also on Maggots, Becketts and Chapel have actually made me faster. Sometimes we´re pushing it too much and ruining the laps without even knowing.
 
RUstAuSi
The drivers on the top of the leader boards in my opinion just exploit, and make full use of the way the physics are in the game in order to get fast times. That's not a bad thing, though, they are not cheating at all. They are simply just very good at finding ways in game on how to decrease lap times, which don't necessarily apply in real life driving.
Click to expand...

Yes,
they exploit the way the physics work ( or dont) in the simulation.
But if they are cheating, and we think is the physics that's
not a good tribute to the people working to improve GT6.
MonzaDriver1
 
MonzaDriver1
Yes,
they exploit the way the physics work ( or dont) in the simulation.
But if they are cheating, and we think is the physics that's
not a good tribute to the people working to improve GT6.
MonzaDriver1
Click to expand...

I don't really know what you're trying to say but no one is cheating here, go and practice for a few hours instead of trying to find things wrong with others.
 
Rest assured Monza Driver, the tyres are all the same, the 'aliens' don't have super grip tyres, they are exactly the same. You have actually pointed out some of your lap mistakes in your description, I'll explain.

If you are going faster than an 'alien' in a corner, that is because that corner is before a more important corner, one that requirs a specific line that will allow the best possible exit to achieve the highest speed on the straight. If you are going faster through a corner, ask yourself how long will you have that speed advantage? If I go into turn 1 full power no brakes, I will have a higher apex speed than you, yes? I will go off the track, yes? It's exactly the same as you, there is a racing line that is perfection, and the 'aliens' try to achieve this line everytime. When you are going faster than the 'aliens' through a corner, you are leaving that corner off the perfect racing line, you may gain a little time there, but you will be out of position come the next corner than others.

Notice you are always slower on the straight? That's because 'aliens' prioritise the corners before straights, as there is more time to gain. They focus on traction through the exits, and what may look to you like magical grip is infact 'aliens' taking the absolute maximum amount of grip available, whereas other none 'aliens' can't do that, they are scared of the moment they lose grip so use less power or are too eratic, and use too much.

The level of skill on show here is something to admire my friend, we are all chasing the perfect lap, nobody will ever achieve it, but some will get closer.
 
Great explanation, Shane, I just hope it sunk in. 👍

MonzaDriver1, if your problem was purely the language barrier, I apologise, but you appeared to not want a valid and reasonable explanation, only somebody to confirm that it was "cheating" or "exploiting the physics". I assure you, it's not, I'm on 2:19.898 and stuck without really sliding and definitely no handbrake use.
 
mistersafeway
Great explanation, Shane, I just hope it sunk in. 👍

MonzaDriver1, if your problem was purely the language barrier, I apologise, but you appeared to not want a valid and reasonable explanation, only somebody to confirm that it was "cheating" or "exploiting the physics". I assure you, it's not, I'm on 2:19.898 and stuck without really sliding and definitely no handbrake use.
Click to expand...

being non native in English myself I feel offended by this picking at his use of language. Is this meant to be a "clean language" forum?
 
lapiforce
being non native in English myself I feel offended by this picking at his use of language. Is this meant to be a "clean language" forum?
Click to expand...

Offended? For stating that somebody who said he was having problems with English may have been having problems with understanding what was being said to him in English? You may want to rethink that one. :lol:

MonzaDriver1
Sorry I am Italian,
and to reply fast lead to some errors.
I hope the meaning come through anyway.
Click to expand...

I had no problems understanding him, but if others were, that means it's likely he wasn't understanding them. And considering I've been attacked for criticising native speakers when they were making mistakes which would make it hard for people who speak English as a second language (or using a translation program) to understand what was being said, I find it funny I'm accused of attacking someone for not being able to speak English properly.

Sorry for the long and probably hard to follow (off topic too :scared:) post, mods and other members. :)
 
ShaneUK
Rest assured Monza Driver, the tyres are all the same, the 'aliens' don't have super grip tyres, they are exactly the same. You have actually pointed out some of your lap mistakes in your description, I'll explain.

If you are going faster than an 'alien' in a corner, that is because that corner is before a more important corner, one that requirs a specific line that will allow the best possible exit to achieve the highest speed on the straight. If you are going faster through a corner, ask yourself how long will you have that speed advantage? If I go into turn 1 full power no brakes, I will have a higher apex speed than you, yes? I will go off the track, yes? It's exactly the same as you, there is a racing line that is perfection, and the 'aliens' try to achieve this line everytime. When you are going faster than the 'aliens' through a corner, you are leaving that corner off the perfect racing line, you may gain a little time there, but you will be out of position come the next corner than others.

Notice you are always slower on the straight? That's because 'aliens' prioritise the corners before straights, as there is more time to gain. They focus on traction through the exits, and what may look to you like magical grip is infact 'aliens' taking the absolute maximum amount of grip available, whereas other none 'aliens' can't do that, they are scared of the moment they lose grip so use less power or are too eratic, and use too much.

The level of skill on show here is something to admire my friend, we are all chasing the perfect lap, nobody will ever achieve it, but some will get closer.
Click to expand...

Sorry dear ShaneUk
but the thngs you decribed so well doesn't fit with the replys.
I saw everything against smooth driving or slow in fast out principles.
I am slower on the straight and 5-7 miles slower on the fast bends,
where the grip required to keep up the weight transfer is much more.
Ciao.
 
mistersafeway
Great explanation, Shane, I just hope it sunk in. 👍

MonzaDriver1, if your problem was purely the language barrier, I apologise, but you appeared to not want a valid and reasonable explanation, only somebody to confirm that it was "cheating" or "exploiting the physics". I assure you, it's not, I'm on 2:19.898 and stuck without really sliding and definitely no handbrake use.
Click to expand...

I know what you are saying to me is valid and reasonable,
but it doesn't explain 7 seconds of a gap.
Instead if you look at the YouTube footage I posted,
you'll see very fast or probably Aliens if they gone to a final,
not doing a very good driving........
maybe a little worst than me.
MonzaDriver1
 
MonzaDriver1
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oBbuJkkSYxI

With the above link you 'll see a final,
I dont understand where, but surely they are the top drivers.

Have a look at their driving, for the bends we also use,
I see nothing of the magical things happening in the replys.

And it seem to me they are not absolutly confident.

And here in this final the software surely is provided by the organization.

Maybe they are on other tyres, I dont know.

MonzaDriver1
Click to expand...

As one of the guys who was in this video I can explain what was going on. They told us a few mins before we drove what track we were on and none of us had driven it. That's why we found the boundaries and why we looked so uncomfortable. I drove some of the worst laps in the history of gran turismo that day.

On a separate note though this discussion did remind me of something we ran across at E3 during the competition. There were 4 rigs setup outside that were used to qualify and of the top 4 everyone of us agreed there was something different about one of them. None of us went fast on that one for some reason. The car felt different and even when you did the same thing it went slow. This got me to thinking and wondering why that could be and if it had to do with the PS3 or the wheel and if it could happen with this demo. Any computer geniuses out there have any thoughts on this?
 
Unfortunately this is going to be an ongoing battle. If I had a dollar for every time I read someone complaining about cheating, physics, aliens can do it better and upside down, the earth isn’t round enough, etc., I could fund my own race team. I’m not trying to be rude or mean, maybe it’s just a bad day at work (yes currently “working” ;) ), but some people just won’t understand that we all have the same opportunities to take advantage at what we are given and ti-tech has done the best so far.

In this particular instance “cheating” would involve someone actually tampering with the software to be able to manipulate the cars in ways other cannot. If it’s just a general misunderstanding of the mental side of racing, well ladies and gentlemen this is what Nissan is trying to figure out now instead of having 16 clowns show up to Silverstone and perform a wonderful Cirque Du Soleil show for a FIA GT crowd.

For the OP, I hope you take what has been said in this thread as a positive and you apply it to your race craft. To me, and this is just me, it sound like this is what needs to be addressed first and foremost. Like said above apex speeds are just a very small part of breaking down a lap and reviewing driver data, and is not the only thing you should be looking at and certainly not judging a lap by. You are on the right track with comparing data from other fellow competitors, now, it’s how you use that data is to weather you will improve your time or not. Look at entrance speeds, slip angles (rotation of the car, some call it drifting but there is a big difference and this is what you are seeing in replays but it might be coming off as sliding), apex speed ( which includes car position relative to the track), exit speed and again location. These are just the basics, so I would suggest picking up a good book about racing basics and fundamentals. All that is said in the books can be applied to this same video game. Now for the biggest point, this is JUST A VIDEO GAME, therefore you can manipulate the cars a little differently than you can in real life for various reasons already stated above.

Bottom line look at it half full, you have done a 2:24.00, in the grand scheme of things not bad. I’m sure there are people playing that cannot break 2:27 or 2:30 for that matter and they are 4-8 seconds off or your pace.

Okay I’m done and I apologize its REALLY slow at work today. Cheers!!!
 
MonzaDriver1
I know what you are saying to me is valid and reasonable,
but it doesn't explain 7 seconds of a gap.
Instead if you look at the YouTube footage I posted,
you'll see very fast or probably Aliens if they gone to a final,
not doing a very good driving........
maybe a little worst than me.
MonzaDriver1
Click to expand...

Dude, live performance x sitting at home are two completely different things.

Also, the E3 competition had a lot of regular gamers, not any "aliens".

I think you´re just losing it now. If you´re into motorsports you know the basics of going fast, racing line, apexes and all that, so i´m not sure what´s the point besides saying that a videogame allows you to go deeper and deeper into the limits of what´s possible and maybe not achievable in real life due to a number of factors.

I´m really trying to understand your point but i don´t.
 
fasj6418
Dude, live performance x sitting at home are two completely different things.


I´m really trying to understand your point but i don´t.
Click to expand...

Yes but to some extent not so muxh,
probably is right the explanaton of Hillracing that they never saw the track.
 
brianm3
Unfortunately this is going to be an ongoing battle. If I had a dollar for every time I read someone complaining about cheating, physics, aliens can do it better and upside down, the earth isn’t round enough, etc., I could fund my own race team. I’m not trying to be rude or mean, maybe it’s just a bad day at work (yes currently “working” ;) ), but some people just won’t understand that we all have the same opportunities to take advantage at what we are given and ti-tech has done the best so far.

In this particular instance “cheating” would involve someone actually tampering with the software to be able to manipulate the cars in ways other cannot. If it’s just a general misunderstanding of the mental side of racing, well ladies and gentlemen this is what Nissan is trying to figure out now instead of having 16 clowns show up to Silverstone and perform a wonderful Cirque Du Soleil show for a FIA GT crowd.

!
Click to expand...

Well if I am not wrong it could be possible to change a parameter about
the grip of a tyre ( a coefficient ? )
At leat with the pc simulations I've read you can do it.
I never exploited that matter because I am perfetly happy with driving like it is real world.
 
Suggesting that Ti-tech or his brothers - or IMMORTAL_PILOT for that matter - cheat is really bad form. Most of us have followed these guys for a few years now and they don't cheat!
Here they are
They've taken part (and won) so many times that PD and Kaz probably know them personally by now. You really should take a look at the WRS GTP TT races (in my sig) and join us. We've got aliens like Bandit and 70 year olds, all competing together. Here's a video comparing the top 4 divisions we have going and you can see the different choices made by the different divisions.

​


Your disbelief in the aliens' skills is understandable - but I think you should admit defeat now and retract the accusations 👍
 
MonzaDriver1
Do you know if it's possible or not possible to change parameters or whatever
with a PS3 ?
Click to expand...

To answer your question fairly anything is possible. But no I do not believe at all that these guys at the top are changing the demo in any way to gain an advantage. To touch on one thing that I’m catching from what you are saying is, and Hillracing said it best, the racer x deal that went on were with contestants that did not have 1 day let alone a week to lap the same track over and over to perfect the lap. Even the guys currently at the top had to start from scratch and find the limits of the car on a track that no one (GT6 game) has driven. You even did the same when you took your first laps as did I. Not to be rude but I figured this was common sense and I think all of us in here took that for granted as you knowing this, and It purely shows in the race x challenge. Not one of us in GT Academy went out and set a ridiculous fast lap that inevitably shows the speed and fluidity of what the top 5 have done thus far in the world.

I really hope this helps for you. If not I’m sorry but I have nothing else to say. Best of luck!
 
MonzaDriver1
Sorry dear ShaneUk
but the thngs you decribed so well doesn't fit with the replys.
I saw everything against smooth driving or slow in fast out principles.
I am slower on the straight and 5-7 miles slower on the fast bends,
where the grip required to keep up the weight transfer is much more.
Ciao.
Click to expand...

Yes, it does fit with the replays. I'm well accustomed to the replays because I'm chasing them all the time.

I clearly explained what separates you from them, you are now deciding not to listen to logic. You are not accepting that they are on the brakes later, on the power earlier and controlling the car better than you, with the same equipment, by a large margin.

The fact that you find it absolutely impossible that these guys are beating you on pure skill alone is just testament to how good they are, so please continue. But if you insist, I will put your mind at ease.

I will race you online in GT5 to prove I am not cheating, your settings, and I will obliterate you. Accept the challenge? Add me.
 
ShaneUK
Yes, it does fit with the replays. I'm well accustomed to the replays because I'm chasing them all the time.

I clearly explained what separates you from them, you are now deciding not to listen to logic. You are not accepting that they are on the brakes later, on the power earlier and controlling the car better than you, with the same equipment, by a large margin.

The fact that you find it absolutely impossible that these guys are beating you on pure skill alone is just testament to how good they are, so please continue. But if you insist, I will put your mind at ease.

I will race you online in GT5 to prove I am not cheating, your settings, and I will obliterate you. Accept the challenge? Add me.
Click to expand...

Exactly 👍

Now i'm not a bad player, infact I consider myself pretty good. But I watch the replays of the top guys and they are in a completely different league. My style is very smooth, but the key to fast times is getting the car pointed towards the exit whilst minimising the speed loss. This requires excellent car control, car control that takes a massive amount of skill, practice and perserverence to perfect.

When I follow their ghosts, i'm braking too early, not turning the car in enough and having to correct slides on the exit by lifting off or counter steering. I'm losing 1/2 a second per sector at least because I just don't have the same level of car control as the guys on the top of the leaderboard. I'm only in the low 2'20s now, but I have a mid 2'18 if I string the sectors together without being red flagged. I just don't have what it takes, and neither do the vast majority of players competing.
 
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MonzaDriver1
Well if I am not wrong it could be possible to change a parameter about
the grip of a tyre ( a coefficient ? )
At leat with the pc simulations I've read you can do it.
I never exploited that matter because I am perfetly happy with driving like it is real world.
Click to expand...

The only cheating thing here is your ego, he can't admit you're 7 seconds slower than the fastest player, that's why you're looking for answers.
 
eclipsee
The only cheating thing here is your ego, he can't admit you're 7 seconds slower than the fastest player, that's why you're looking for answers.
Click to expand...

Something similar happened to me when I joined GTP, but the only difference is that he is complaining about it and looking for answers, I just kinda "improved".
 
Old GT adage:
No matter how fast you think you are, there will always be someone faster.
 
One thing I have noticed is that the replays do not seem to mimic what the "sliding" seems to be when you're actually driving. All of my replays look to me like I have WAY more control than I felt like at the time. Less screaching more stability etc. Watch yours and you might see the same.

Also I've noticed that the new physics seem to really punish sidescrub. Decrease your slip angles and the speed increases much faster. Now if I could just put my own advice into action I'd lose 2sec on my next lap. Easier said than done and some make it look easy.
 
i agree

If you are not experienced in time trialing and look at the replay of the top time, it always look so easy, and when you try it and fight with the car just to be 7 second slower and are trying to figure out what is wrong, that cheating question may pop up.

may be you are so busy overdriving the car that you cant improve and see where to gain time.


i run laps on the nurburging almost 15 seconds faster than 2-3 years ago.
at my first time trialing attempts i was almost wondering if the PAL version of the game was faster :lol:
 

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