WRC Season ArchiveRally

[Simmpa]

Not for 2017.

He's been up and down, but he's finally found some consistency. His performances in Poland and Wales are a testament to that.


I was never quite sold on Evans. He should have won the WRC-2 title easily this year, especially since Lappi struggled at the start, but he never followed through.

I think Evans deserved atleast one more year and I think it was not fair to replace him with Eric Camilli who had no promising record.

 

[prisonermonkeys]

I think Evans deserved atleast one more year and I think it was not fair to replace him with Eric Camilli who had no promising record.

Apparently Camilli's record was in national championships and the like. It's really difficult to break into mainstream rallying, mostly because a lot of the middle-tier championships like the ERC and Asia-Pacific series are underdeveloped.

 

[Accro2008]

Big announcement from ford europe soon, could it be wrc related ...
Ford official support comeback in wrc as been rumored for a while now, and it would help a lot securing a deal with an ex world rally champion for next year.

 

[prisonermonkeys]

and it would help a lot securing a deal with an ex world rally champion for next year.

Not to mention a championship title that is up for grabs.

 

[prisonermonkeys]

Actually, the more I think on it, the less convinced I am that this has to do with the WRC. Ogier apparently skipped the end-of-year party on Sunday night to head back to Europe and test the new cars. It would be a bit premature for Ford to announce his signing.

 

[Legro]

There's not much in the Twitter post that suggests that this has anything to do with WRC. As far as I know it could be anything from the new Fiesta to a facelift for the Mondeo.

 

[mustafur]

Hey if I was Ford I would give Ogier the offer of joining M sport and then giving the factory backing if it goes ahead, it's basically a Free Title or two either way.

Let's be honest here no matter which team he Joins he will be the champion the gap between him and the 2nd best driver is quite large, the only thing that would really stop it, would be if he joined the team that made a lemon and Latvala or Andreas got the best car from what ever was left.

 

[Ex_Driver]

Imagine if there was a racing series for WRC cars on traditional circuits. They're all limited to about 300 horsepower and have low downforce so they'd be slower, and slower=safer. But they're loud, aggressive-looking, four wheel drive (which means the drivers can be aggressive in their lines), and rock solid safe little cages. Exact same car regulations as used in WRC. And nearly equal in performance so it'd be unlikely 1 or 2 cars would really walk away with it, so good close racing.

A bit like RallyX, but on full sized circuits and more in line with touring car racing. Would be quite fun to watch them bash each other around on Silverstone and drift through Maggots-Becketts-Chapel.

 

[prisonermonkeys]

drift through Maggots-Becketts-Chapel.

Rally cars don't drift. They may go sideways through a corner, but only to carry as much speed as possible through it in low-grip conditions. They would follow the traditional racing line around a circuit, because that's the fastest way around.

 

[Ex_Driver]

Rally cars don't drift. They may go sideways through a corner, but only to carry as much speed as possible through it in low-grip conditions. They would follow the traditional racing line around a circuit, because that's the fastest way around.

Drift. Slide. Scandinavian flick. I was using terminology more people would understand. But I understand what you're getting at.

 

[prisonermonkeys]

That it's a terrible idea?

If you want door-to-door racing like what you're describing, watch the BTCC. Rally cars have no business racing on circuits. Unless it's something like the Nürburgring Nordschleife being used as a special stage.

 

[Ex_Driver]

That it's a terrible idea?

If you want door-to-door racing like what you're describing, watch the BTCC. Rally cars have no business racing on circuits. Unless it's something like the Nürburgring Nordschleife being used as a special stage.

The problem with modern touring cars is they've become too reliant on aero grip. Compare the Group A days to now.
I was mostly suggesting a support series anyway.

 

[mustafur]

The problem with modern touring cars is they've become too reliant on aero grip. Compare the Group A days to now.
I was mostly suggesting a support series anyway.

BTCC doesn't have much aero, but if your talking about DTM, thats not a touring car It's a GT style Prototype, running touring car length races with single driver cars.

 

[Ex_Driver]

BTCC doesn't have much aero, but if your talking about DTM, thats not a touring car It's a GT style Prototype, running touring car length races with single driver cars.

They're F1 levels of aero compared to a WRC car, is the point I'm making.

 

[mustafur]

They're F1 levels of aero compared to a WRC car, is the point I'm making.

But BTCC, V8SC are around the same if not less.

 

[Ex_Driver]

But BTCC, V8SC are around the same if not less.

And they're too aero-reliant as well if you ask me.

 

[mustafur]

And they're too aero-reliant as well if you ask me.

Just because there is an appearance of aero doesn't mean it works like it. Both are very much a Mechanical Grip based series.

 

[Ex_Driver]

Just because there is an appearance of aero doesn't mean it works like it. Both are very much a Mechanical Grip based series.

You think they put wings on the car for looks?

 

[mustafur]

You think they put wings on the car for looks?

In those Series Yes, very much so.

 

[LMSCorvetteGT2]

In those Series Yes, very much so.

...Are you serious? For someone who follows V8s you should know as well as others that aero was quite a big deal when the Merc and Nissan first came about, even the Volvo to some level.

 

[mustafur]

...Are you serious? For someone who follows V8s you should know as well as others that aero was quite a big deal when the Merc and Nissan first came about, even the Volvo to some level.

Obviously it does something but to imply it's excessive or even high is ludicrous.

The issue between parity is more to do with drag levels and engine power though.

 

[LMSCorvetteGT2]

Obviously it does something but to imply it's excessive or even high is ludicrous.

The issue between parity is more to do with drag levels and engine power though.

Well of course it's not high on the level of an F1 or WEC lmp, but it has a significance, the degree of which is relative to series type.

 

[mustafur]

The Concept of V8 Supercars was very much to put Aero on to make them look like race cars, you only have to go back to the early 90s when they broke away from Group A to the system they have now, the cars had alot more body work Aero then Group A but the cars where slower, and really the cars have only slightly evolved each year from then.

 

[LMSCorvetteGT2]

The Concept of V8 Supercars was very much to put Aero on to make them look like race cars, you only have to go back to the early 90s when they broke away from Group A to the system they have now, the cars had alot more body work Aero then Group A but the cars where slower, and really the cars have only slightly evolved each year from then.

The cars have aero to get down force, to grip better, which they do. They were slow because of said down force. My point in all this is for anyone to think that those pieces are purely aesthetic in nature, is kidding themselves. Money and and creating parity between the differences in aero between cars would be well saved if that were the case. Now if the argument is, there aero is minor compared to other series, yes that's correct considering F1 cars generate the own weight in down force and more at full speed.

 

[mustafur]

If you think you need to explain Aero-dynamics to me then your talking to the wrong person.

It was a light hearted statement and in comparison to a WRC car which is fair, I do think the Aero levels are similar.

 

[GOTMAXPOWER]

Ogier has been having a play in the Yaris today:



I think I'm allowed to post in this thread since it's not season specific (IRC hasn't existed since 2012).

 

[prisonermonkeys]

Ogier has been having a play in the Yaris today:

Hmmm, Autosport is reporting it very differently - they're taking a much dimmer view, suggesting that Latvala already has an offer. They seem to be banking on a move to M-Sport, suggesting that Citroën won't let him test because it will take testing days away from their drivers; and Hyundai is a closed shop, unwilling to let him test because there is no chance of offering a contract.

I think I'm allowed to post in this thread since it's not season specific (IRC hasn't existed since 2012).

This is pretty much the de facto rallying thread. It's got a pretty low volume of traffic, so I don't think we need a new thread for each season.

 

[GOTMAXPOWER]

Hmmm, Autosport is reporting it very differently - they're taking a much dimmer view, suggesting that Latvala already has an offer. They seem to be banking on a move to M-Sport, suggesting that Citroën won't let him test because it will take testing days away from their drivers; and Hyundai is a closed shop, unwilling to let him test because there is no chance of offering a contract.

I will be really annoyed if Latvala gets a drive and Mikkelsen doesn't, I think Ogier will be at M-Sport next year but there is no harm testing the Toyota too for him, I'd guess it's a bit of a step backwards for him after driving the 2017 Polo.

I just get an impression that Toyota will be back of the pack next season, I have huge respect for Tommi Makinen as the greatest rally driver ever (Tied with Loeb) but the team setup is not on the same level as the competition. I know it's a bit early for bold predictions but I can see Thierry Neuville and Hyundai as World Champions next year.

 

[prisonermonkeys]

I just get an impression that Toyota will be back of the pack next season

I don't think they will be under any illusions as to what they can realistically achieve. The Polo R might have been dominant from the outset, but it had an extended development cycle - and Volkswagen even entered Škoda Fabia S2000s to get experience running a WRC team. I expect that 2017 will be a learning year for Toyota, like 2014 was for Hyundai. After all, Toyota signed Hänninen to get constant feedback for development.

 

[Accro2008]

Ogier indeed tested the Yaris wrc today in Spain, Motorsport News also reports that he has been offered by Toyota a huge amount of money if he signs a 2 year deal (10 million euro a year).
At the end of the week, Ogier will test the Fiesta in Greystoke (Wales) and He will also test the C3 wrc sooner or later.

Also Latvala or Mikkelsen will test the 2017 Yaris on thursday.