Xbox Japan: "Forza 6 includes weather, night racing, 450 cars"

[GranTurismo guy]

The 49 is also in the game

The only lotus developers agree on it seems

 

[FoRiZon]

Sorry if this has been posted, but it looks pretty great. Not sure about the physics, though.

 

[05XR8]

hmm, I hope there are changes from the rear end skidding. Seems like the user is just full throttle everywhere. It is something that tarnished my experience in FM4. Trying to keep the rear tyres planted using the controller was driving me crazy.

 

[BoneSawTX]

I felt like the cars in FM4 were glued to the track compared to FM5

 

[hardvibes]

I don't see the in-race photorealism...still looks old gen. (don't get me wrong, in forzavista cars look awesome)

Hey I didn't know the tire walls are not made of concrete anymore. That's good!

 

[Zelalem]

I don't see the in-race photorealism...still looks old gen. (don't get me wrong, in forzavista cars look awesome)

As an example I haven't seen the draw distance and detail at the 2:00 mark in the video last gen.

 

[SlipZtrEm]

I've yet to find a Youtube video that accurately shows the game off compared to playing it myself, though. I've loaded up FM4, FH2, and GT6 simultaneously at home and just switched between inputs: the jump between this generation and the last is smaller than the PS2/XB -> PS3/360 era, but it's definitely noticeable.

Why someone would think they can judge physics off of a video though, is anybody's guess...

 

[Wolfe]

Why someone would think they can judge physics off of a video though, is anybody's guess...

Well, it is convenient that it's someone who likes to drift, since that's so much more illustrative than normal driving.

I'm pretty sure T10 has explained that they have a sophisticated "master simulation" in the studio that they downscale to the console, anyway, so anyone who has played FM4/FM5 should know what to expect. Based on the drifting here, I see the same countersteer weirdness that bugs me with FM4 and FM5, which (personally) throws immersion out the window, in either steering mode. For clarity's sake, FM1-FM3 had even worse forms of countersteer weirdness.

Even if that doesn't bother anyone else, it's a sign that FM6 will be quite similar to FM5.

 

[fortbo]

I really hope they fix the wheel support.

 

[Speedster911]

I felt like the cars in FM4 were glued to the track compared to FM5

Weren't people saying the same about FM4 when it was released? That the cars are on ice and they don't grip? Wierd...

Well, it is convenient that it's someone who likes to drift, since that's so much more illustrative than normal driving.

I'm pretty sure T10 has explained that they have a sophisticated "master simulation" in the studio that they downscale to the console, anyway, so anyone who has played FM4/FM5 should know what to expect. Based on the drifting here, I see the same countersteer weirdness that bugs me with FM4 and FM5, which (personally) throws immersion out the window, in either steering mode. For clarity's sake, FM1-FM3 had even worse forms of countersteer weirdness.

Even if that doesn't bother anyone else, it's a sign that FM6 will be quite similar to FM5.

Countersteering wierdness? Didn't we conclude in an old thread that to get around that you can go with normal steering?

Are you on a wheel? I'm on a controller, and countersteering with SIM on is such a treat. Immensely satisfying once you understand how it affects different cars and set ups.

 

[BoneSawTX]

Weren't people saying the same about FM4 when it was released? That the cars are on ice and they don't grip? Wierd...

Don't know, I started with FM4 about a year before the Xone came out.

 

[Speedster911]

Don't know, I started with FM4 about a year before the Xone came out.

FM4 had very very good physics at the time, so did FM3 - by console standards.

Just when I thought FM3 couldn't get any better physics-wise, they bring out FM4 with brand new nuisances (👍)...

I thought they were pushing it with FM4, and then FM5 bettered that even more (👍👍).

Now, it's going to be interesting how they have improved physics even further, with rain in the mix and everything.. (don't know why I inserted this here...)

Forza makes consistent incremental improvements to physics in every game they release.. more than I can say for a certain franchise I used to love playing whenever I could.. ()

 

[Nielsen]

Sorry if this has been posted, but it looks pretty great. Not sure about the physics, though.

The physics are my primary concern. If this aspect doesn't feel quite right, all those great cars and tracks probably can't save the deal for me. I can't wait to hear people's feedback from the demo. Meanwhile, I've been comparing FM5 and FM6 gameplay videos lately, and the new game seems to have more realistic grip. That's a big positive because FM5 often looks like an ice skating game, even when the cars aren't sliding.

By the way, do the Forza games offer a variety of tyre compounds similar to Gran Turismo?

 

[SimTourist]

Forza just needs better grip, even on racing tires the cars are way too loose even at low speeds, I wonder if they changed things up in FM6 and FM5 was a bit retarded because of launch pressure.

 

[SlipZtrEm]

Well, it is convenient that it's someone who likes to drift, since that's so much more illustrative than normal driving.

I'm pretty sure T10 has explained that they have a sophisticated "master simulation" in the studio that they downscale to the console, anyway, so anyone who has played FM4/FM5 should know what to expect. Based on the drifting here, I see the same countersteer weirdness that bugs me with FM4 and FM5, which (personally) throws immersion out the window, in either steering mode. For clarity's sake, FM1-FM3 had even worse forms of countersteer weirdness.

Even if that doesn't bother anyone else, it's a sign that FM6 will be quite similar to FM5.

From playing the show demo, FM6 is quite a lot like FM5, you're correct. I've actually found countersteering harder than in FM4, while it's super-easy in FH2. FM5's feels more realistic to me, getting the right amount of lock on takes time to master.

I drove the 250 GTO a few times because it was the only car I could compare to FM5. It still feels like it has a bus' worth of turning circle, and it responds to smooth inputs far better than jerky, erratic motions. For lack of a better term, it "flows" better.

The physics are my primary concern. If this aspect doesn't feel quite right, all those great cars and tracks probably can't save the deal for me. I can't wait to hear people's feedback from the demo. Meanwhile, I've been comparing FM5 and FM6 gameplay videos lately, and the new game seems to have more realistic grip. That's a big positive because FM5 often looks like an ice skating game, even when the cars aren't sliding.

By the way, do the Forza games offer a variety of tyre compounds similar to Gran Turismo?

If you've never played the game, you can't get very much info from a video. The physics are on another level compared to (most) other console games. I'd place them closer to PCARS than GT, though I don't have a serious amount of seat-time with the former, so YMMV. FM4 still does things GT6 doesn't.

They offer a few compounds, generalized ones. Other than a car's stock tires, there are Street, Sport, Race, and Drag. Some cars don't have Street (or even Sport) available to them, because their stock tires are already above those. Dan has already said Rain tires are equipped automatically at wet tracks.

 

[Wolfe]

Countersteering wierdness? Didn't we conclude in an old thread that to get around that you can go with normal steering?

I'm not talking about snap-overcorrection this time, but the way RWD cars in FM4 and FM5 appear to "pull" themselves by the front wheels almost as if there are little electric motors on the front axles (in both steering modes). It allows RWD cars to move in unnatural ways (evidenced in this FM6 video), particularly at lower speeds. In instances when the car should pivot upon the front axle while the tail swings wide, any input to the steering effectively "pulls" the front end in that direction, resulting in a strafing-like motion. It's not easy to convey what I mean; it's just weird.

It's pretty much unrelated to how sensitive the countersteer is or how easy it is to find the right amount of opposite lock. FM6 could be more or less difficult than FM4/FM5, and I agree with @SlipZtrEm that FM5 is a bit more difficult than FM4. This quirk just bugs me, and T10 could do better with low speed physics.

 

[ImaRobot]

Sorry if this has been posted, but it looks pretty great. Not sure about the physics, though.

This footage is apparently back from June, not from the demo. What exactly are you not sure about?

The physics are my primary concern. If this aspect doesn't feel quite right, all those great cars and tracks probably can't save the deal for me. I can't wait to hear people's feedback from the demo. Meanwhile, I've been comparing FM5 and FM6 gameplay videos lately, and the new game seems to have more realistic grip. That's a big positive because FM5 often looks like an ice skating game, even when the cars aren't sliding.

What I've found is that after tuning a car yourself it eliminates most of the problems that you'd see in the videos. When people just slap modifications on a car and do absolutely no tuning, the car set up is absolutely horrible, resulting in the car reacting pretty wildly. Also swapping out drivetrain's on cars and switching most to RWD can be tricky at times, because you will still be stuck with the original tire width allowed on the car from when it was FWD. So it all depends on how you set up the car really.

I'm not talking about snap-overcorrection this time, but the way RWD cars in FM4 and FM5 appear to "pull" themselves by the front wheels almost as if there are little electric motors on the front axles (in both steering modes). It allows RWD cars to move in unnatural ways (evidenced in this FM6 video), particularly at lower speeds. In instances when the car should pivot upon the front axle while the tail swings wide, any input to the steering effectively "pulls" the front end in that direction, resulting in a strafing-like motion. It's not easy to convey what I mean; it's just weird.

I'm wondering if its a pad isolated incident, going from lock to lock in such a short joy stick throw?

 

[SlipZtrEm]

This footage is apparently back from June, not from the demo. What exactly are you not sure about?


What I've found is that after tuning a car yourself it eliminates most of the problems that you'd see in the videos. When people just slap modifications on a car and do absolutely no tuning, the car set up is absolutely horrible, resulting in the car reacting pretty wildly. Also swapping out drivetrain's on cars and switching most to RWD can be tricky at times, because you will still be stuck with the original tire width allowed on the car from when it was FWD. So it all depends on how you set up the car really.

One of my more wayward cars in both FM5 and FH2 is a little '84 CR-X converted to RWD. Despite being in the lower classes, that thing is always wanting to slide.

Tuning makes a huge difference, you're right. Arguably more of a difference than it makes in the GT games, really.

 

[dice1998]

The physics are on another level compared to (most) other console games.

Because CALSPAN™?

 

[ImaRobot]

One of my more wayward cars in both FM5 and FH2 is a little '84 CR-X converted to RWD. Despite being in the lower classes, that thing is always wanting to slide.

Tuning makes a huge difference, you're right. Arguably more of a difference than it makes in the GT games, really.

If you can keep those cars straight, they are fast! Lets be honest though, most of us can't I used to try to create my own tunes for a while, and while they weren't horrible, it came to me that they aren't that good either. I started downloading tunes, and some of these are just grip monsters and corner carvers. I don't even understand how people could do such a thing tuning.

I'm not sure why applying modifications throw's off the original tune by so much, it's always puzzled me. Most of the time the tune they throw at you after modifications where super oversteer-prone, on a RWD car that is already prone to oversteer.

 

[SlipZtrEm]

If you can keep those cars straight, they are fast! Lets be honest though, most of us can't I used to try to create my own tunes for a while, and while they weren't horrible, it came to me that they aren't that good either. I started downloading tunes, and some of these are just grip monsters and corner carvers. I don't even understand how people could do such a thing tuning.

Sometimes it can work out well: I had an awesome RWD Aygo in C425 in FM4 that could win a lot of races online: the RWD swap put more of the weight on the back than the front . Had a similarly-tuned Mazdaspeed3 in A600 that could also post some serious times.

I'm not sure why applying modifications throw's off the original tune by so much, it's always puzzled me. Most of the time the tune they throw at you after modifications where super oversteer-prone, on a RWD car that is already prone to oversteer.

I guess it makes sense: throwing more power and a stiffer suspension at a car that's already pretty hairy will just exaggerate that attitude. It also pushes people to get into tuning... or, like you and I, to just download tunes if they're looking for leaderboard glory. I usually just tune my cars for fun, as I'm not too bothered with shaving much time off these days. I'm not as competitive as I used to be, I guess.

 

[ImaRobot]

Sometimes it can work out well: I had an awesome RWD Aygo in C425 in FM4 that could win a lot of races online: the RWD swap put more of the weight on the back than the front . Had a similarly-tuned Mazdaspeed3 in A600 that could also post some serious times.

I've also swapped the Mazdaspeed3 as well, and I've fallen in love with the car. It's a very nice a subtle drive with it, and an unexpected challenge to those behind you

I guess it makes sense: throwing more power and a stiffer suspension at a car that's already pretty hairy will just exaggerate that attitude. It also pushes people to get into tuning... or, like you and I, to just download tunes if they're looking for leaderboard glory. I usually just tune my cars for fun, as I'm not too bothered with shaving much time off these days. I'm not as competitive as I used to be, I guess.

While that is true, sometimes the tunes are just so far out of whack that it doesn't even make sense how it happened! At the end of FM5's life I notice that I'm not to concerned with leaderboard times(outside of this challenge of course.) I did go through a spurt earlier in the year and try to get a good time on every B and A class track, but I still haven't finished that, though.

 

[JTB10000]

Why someone would think they can judge physics off of a video though, is anybody's guess...

VVV, who has played the game, has said that the physics feel a little strange with the wheel because of the instability through corners and the countersteer problem, so his observations aren't exactly wrong.

 

[ImaRobot]

VVV, who has played the game, has said that the physics feel a little strange with the wheel because of the instability through corners and the countersteer problem, so his observations aren't exactly wrong.

Not playing a game but judging its physics through youtube is always wrong.

 

[SlipZtrEm]

VVV, who has played the game, has said that the physics feel a little strange with the wheel because of the instability through corners and the countersteer problem, so his observations aren't exactly wrong.

VVV has extensive experience with the series. My thoughts on the wheel are very similar to theirs, too. Though the wheel issues are more a problem with the input device than the physics.

Someone who has very little to no experience with the games in the series can not accurately judge physics based on one 3-minute video, where the assists haven't even clearly been established.

 

[Spitty]

I'm not talking about snap-overcorrection this time, but the way RWD cars in FM4 and FM5 appear to "pull" themselves by the front wheels almost as if there are little electric motors on the front axles (in both steering modes). It allows RWD cars to move in unnatural ways (evidenced in this FM6 video), particularly at lower speeds. In instances when the car should pivot upon the front axle while the tail swings wide, any input to the steering effectively "pulls" the front end in that direction, resulting in a strafing-like motion. It's not easy to convey what I mean; it's just weird.

It's pretty much unrelated to how sensitive the countersteer is or how easy it is to find the right amount of opposite lock. FM6 could be more or less difficult than FM4/FM5, and I agree with @SlipZtrEm that FM5 is a bit more difficult than FM4. This quirk just bugs me, and T10 could do better with low speed physics.

I think you mean the abruptness in the counter steering? This video shows it well:



Drifting always looked wrong in Forza, that's why I don't enjoy to watch replays.(GT gets it right^^)

 

[ImaRobot]

I think you mean the abruptness in the counter steering? This video shows it well:



Drifting always looked wrong in Forza, that's why I don't enjoy to watch replays.(GT gets it right^^)

I remember this video.

Back to my question though, does this happen while using a wheel as well? I've always wondered if it was just a pad isolated incident.

 

[Spitty]

I remember this video.

Back to my question though, does this happen while using a wheel as well? I've always wondered if it was just a pad isolated incident.

Hmm, no idea. I've never used a wheel with FM. We would have to compare this to a replay video of a wheel user.

 

[ImaRobot]

Hmm, no idea. I've never used a wheel with FM. We would have to compare this to a replay video of a wheel user.

Another thing I'm wondering is if this effects normal steering mode. I always felt Simulation steering with a pad was never meant to be, and was meant more for wheel users. It has very unrealistic snap counter-steer instances, almost reflecting exactly how it went in that video.

 

[Nielsen]

If you've never played the game, you can't get very much info from a video. The physics are on another level compared to (most) other console games. I'd place them closer to PCARS than GT, though I don't have a serious amount of seat-time with the former, so YMMV. FM4 still does things GT6 doesn't.

You're right that first-hand experiences is a precondition for accurate judgement, but is there no truth to what I said FM6 looking / being more grippy than FM5? By comparing gameplay videos between the two games, I just get the impression that FM6 has improved grip in the same way GT6 improved it from GT5. Movement looks realistically glued to the surface in FM6.

They offer a few compounds, generalized ones. Other than a car's stock tires, there are Street, Sport, Race, and Drag. Some cars don't have Street (or even Sport) available to them, because their stock tires are already above those. Dan has already said Rain tires are equipped automatically at wet tracks.

Thanks for clarifying.

What I've found is that after tuning a car yourself it eliminates most of the problems that you'd see in the videos. When people just slap modifications on a car and do absolutely no tuning, the car set up is absolutely horrible, resulting in the car reacting pretty wildly. Also swapping out drivetrain's on cars and switching most to RWD can be tricky at times, because you will still be stuck with the original tire width allowed on the car from when it was FWD. So it all depends on how you set up the car really.

I'd still argue that a car reacting wildly shouldn't look like it floats on the ground, which is something I think characterizes the FM5 gameplay videos I have watched.