Xbox Series X Set For a Discless Redesign in 2024, According to Court Document Leak

[Famine]

I don't understand why people are surprised

I don't understand why you're pretending that "surprise" is the reaction here.

Nobody's surprised. This is literally what Microsoft wanted, and stated it wanted, with the XBox One launch in 2013. Remember Don Mattrick's "we have a product for people who aren’t able to get some form of connectivity. It’s called Xbox 360" line?

The whole point of XB1 was an always-online console (you had to check in every 24hr to retain access to your games) with games that you bought licences for but never owned and couldn't trade-in or buy second-hand.

While it very much had to walk that one back, most people were expecting it would try again and... well, here it is.


Gaming preservation is not going to enjoy this period of games history, for sure.

 

[Joey D]

Gaming preservation is not going to enjoy this period of games history, for sure.

I suspect in the future people will be able to host the games much like they do with DOS/WIN 3.1/WIN 95 games now through various gaming library sites. ROMs are still common enough as well and with PC emulation, the games will likely be preserved in some manner. Even now all it takes is a Raspberry Pi and some Googling to build a console that will play PS1 games while sitting on your couch.

I don't think there's been an online-only game yet that someone hasn't defeated the licensing on and as games age, I would imagine most of those companies will no longer care if those games are cracked...unless it's a Nintendo game.

 

[FordGTGuy]

I don't understand why you're pretending that "surprise" is the reaction here.

Nobody's surprised. This is literally what Microsoft wanted, and stated it wanted, with the XBox One launch in 2013. Remember Don Mattrick's "we have a product for people who aren’t able to get some form of connectivity. It’s called Xbox 360" line?

The whole point of XB1 was an always-online console (you had to check in every 24hr to retain access to your games) with games that you bought licences for but never owned and couldn't trade-in or buy second-hand.

While it very much had to walk that one back, most people were expecting it would try again and... well, here it is.


Gaming preservation is not going to enjoy this period of games history, for sure.

This is what the entire game industry wants, not just Xbox and not just console games.

Xbox under Don Mattrick (10 years ago by the way) to modern Xbox is not even comparable. Completely different leadership with Phil Spencer. Different CEO with Satya Nadella. Xbox is now its own division and holds a spot on the executive board of Microsoft now; they used to be under a hardware division. Xbox has launched the largest backwards compatible program of any console to run on the console itself this generation.


Xbox Series X does not require online check-ins.

The new Xbox Series X refresh does not require online check-ins.

You can refund digital purchases on the Xbox Store.

Microsoft offers a relatively cheap service that lets you play 1st party titles day one for no extra charge (beyond the cost of the service.).

Microsoft did not charge people for upgrading games resolution and framerate for Xbox Series X hardware.

How is this "trying it again?"

You can literally play all your digital games while offline.



How about how Xbox has started releasing all of their games on PC, and on Steam?



Xbox even allows people to put Xbox 360 game discs in an Xbox Series X and play BC, something that Nintendo and Sony have not even come close offering. Xbox offers more game preservation at not extra cost than both Nintendo and Sony.

Microsoft has showed some really bizarre behavior in the past 5 years if all they care about is forcing you to be online.

 

[RandomCarGuy17]

This new announcement is giving me vibes about Xbox I had back in 2013 with the Xbox One, which I just realized was 10 years ago. Boy does time fly!

Maybe Microsoft is making this a decade thing to shoot themselves in the foot.

 

[Famine]

Exactly how is this "trying it again?"

You... did read the bit about the cloud-hybrid tenth-gen console, right?

MS wants you to buy revokable licences, not games. That's what the XB1 was about before everyone hated it, and that's what the dropping of physical drives - from XSS, to XSX Brooklin, to Xbox 2028 - is about.

Again, I don't know why you're framing any of this as "surprise". This is what we all saw coming back in 2013.

 

[FordGTGuy]

You... did read the bit about the cloud-hybrid tenth-gen console, right?

MS wants you to buy revokable licences, not games. That's what the XB1 was about before everyone hated it, and that's what the dropping of physical drives - from XSS, to XSX Brooklin, to Xbox 2028 - is about.

Again, I don't know why you're framing any of this as "surprise". This is what we all saw coming back in 2013.

Cloud-hybrid does not mean online-only; it means that the console will be designed to use cloud services in certain games to enhance the games experience. That does not mean that every game will require cloud services and be online-only. It also doesn't mean that every game with cloud enhancement services will require online-connection to play but might just miss features or be of lower quality without the internet connection.

For instance, Flight Simulator is a cloud-hybrid title that is available right now. You do not require an internet connection to play Flight Simulator but having an internet connection and using the cloud services can greatly enhance the quality of the environment from streamed data and allow you to have real-time weather and even air traffic.

A cloud-hybrid console could mean hardware that is more directly designed to reduce latency and bottlenecks for the CPU and GPU to access data directly from the Xbox cloud. It could mean built-in hardware dedicated to decompress data packets and AI hardware to reconstruct data received from the Xbox cloud.


All EULAs, including game discs, are revokable licenses.

This is true on Steam, Epic Game Store, EA Origin, Nintendo, Sony, Android, iOS, and more.

Sony, Nintendo, Microsoft, Epic, and Steam all want you to buy digitally (revokable licenses).

When you buy a game disc, you are buying a license to play your copy of a game and a copy of said game disc.

In 2013? You keep going on about Don Mattrick; I saw this coming when Steam took off. PC gaming is 98% digital at this point and console is following PCs footsteps.

"Unauthorized copying, reverse engineering, transmission, public performance, rental, pay for play, or circumvention of copy protection is strictly prohibited."

You legally cannot even play a game disc you own for public performance or rent it to a friend; so much for owning it.

 

[Famine]

Cloud-hybrid does not mean online-only; it means that the console will be designed to use cloud services in certain games to enhance the games experience. That does not mean that every game will require cloud services and be online-only. It also doesn't mean that every game with cloud enhancement services will require online-connection to play but might just miss features or be of lower quality without the internet connection.

For instance, Flight Simulator is a cloud-hybrid title that is available right now. You do not require an internet connection to play Flight Simulator but having an internet connection and using the cloud services can greatly enhance the quality of the environment from streamed data and allow you to have real-time weather and even air traffic.

A cloud-hybrid console could mean hardware that is more directly designed to reduce latency and bottlenecks for the CPU and GPU to access data directly from the Xbox cloud. It could mean built-in hardware dedicated to decompress data packets and AI hardware to reconstruct data received from the Xbox cloud.

All EULAs, including game discs, are revokable licenses.

This is true on Steam, Epic Game Store, EA Origin, Nintendo, Sony, Android, iOS, and more.

Sony, Nintendo, Microsoft, Epic, and Steam all want you to buy digitally (revokable licenses).

When you buy a game disc, you are buying a license to play your copy of a game and a copy of said game disc.

In 2013? You keep going on about Don Mattrick; I saw this coming when Steam took off. PC gaming is 98% digital at this point and console is following PCs footsteps.

"Unauthorized copying, reverse engineering, transmission, public performance, rental, pay for play, or circumvention of copy protection is strictly prohibited."

You legally cannot even play a game disc you own for public performance or rent it to a friend; so much for owning it.

I don't know what it is you're reading in my posts, but it's got very little to do with what I'm typing...

For instance:

You keep going on about Don Mattrick

I mentioned him exactly once...

For all your weird posting around all of this (although I am giggling at the idea that MS will come to your door and confiscate your Forza Motorsport 2 disc, because EULA), you still haven't actually answered my actual question on why it is you're pretending that people are "surprised" by it - although your posts do kind of give away the answer even if you're very much not intending on doing so.

The reality is no-one who's spoken against this is surprised: they're pissed.


Whether you want to recognise it or not, this is a repackaging of the original Xbox One strategy - where you no longer own any games and Microsoft can simply turn off your access to any (or all) of them at any time - and people were pissed back then too:

Microsoft kills game ownership and expects us to smile

Last time they shipped a console that didn't work by accident. Here's one that doesn't work on purpose.

www.eurogamer.net

Edit: Lol:

 

[andersonrezende]

Why the new codenames for current products? Project Scarlett yielded Anaconda (Series X) and Lockhart (Series S), not Starkville (considering the assumption) and Edith.

 

[Famine]

Why the new codenames for current products? Project Scarlett yielded Anaconda (Series X) and Lockhart (Series S), not Starkville (considering the assumption) and Edith.

A very good question that I was scratching my head about while researching...

 

[MonoTonouS]

How would that counter digital only?

The only way to counter digital only is to buy games on disk and guess what? People just aren't doing that. Companies aren't going to spend the money on something that isn't selling and instead shift those resources to something else. It's the same reason auto makers are ditching manual transmissions, they just don't sell in high enough numbers to justify their existence.

Because digital only has DRM . Also you must be ignorant to the fact that limited run games makes physical disks of digital only / low production run games and they end up costing hundreds of dollars.
I'm not even mad GT7 and Sport are online only. Sport has been hacked to run offline as of like 2019.

 

[Joey D]

Because digital only has DRM . Also you must be ignorant to the fact that limited run games makes physical disks of digital only / low production run games and they end up costing hundreds of dollars.
I'm not even mad GT7 and Sport are online only. Sport has been hacked to run offline as of like 2019.

Digital and physical games both have DRM.

I'm still not sure how piracy combats digital only development. If anything, piracy pushes more devs to go digital only because they can implement stronger DRMs.

 

[FordGTGuy]

I don't know what it is you're reading in my posts, but it's got very little to do with what I'm typing...

For instance:

I mentioned him exactly once...

You seemed imply that a Cloud-Hybrid console is somehow related to their bringing back a console with the policies or strategy of the original Xbox One always-on guidelines, so I explained how a cloud-hybrid console does not mean it would be always-online or promote such strategies.


You mention his 2013 plan quite a few times, that is what I am referring to. (The man behind the strategy anyway.)

For all your weird posting around all of this (although I am giggling at the idea that MS will come to your door and confiscate your Forza Motorsport 2 disc, because EULA), you still haven't actually answered my actual question on why it is you're pretending that people are "surprised" by it - although your posts do kind of give away the answer even if you're very much not intending on doing so.

The reality is no-one who's spoken against this is surprised: they're pissed.


Whether you want to recognise it or not, this is a repackaging of the original Xbox One strategy - where you no longer own any games and Microsoft can simply turn off your access to any (or all) of them at any time - and people were pissed back then too:

Microsoft kills game ownership and expects us to smile

Last time they shipped a console that didn't work by accident. Here's one that doesn't work on purpose.

www.eurogamer.net

Edit: Lol:

This is absolutely nothing like a "repackaging of the original Xbox One strategy."

• There are no 24-hour interval online check-ups.
• There is no plan to let you have a library of 10 "friends and family members" that you can share your game library with.
• You cannot give or transfer your digital purchases to other players.
• You cannot use a physical disc game without the disc as if it were a digital game.
• You cannot share your physical disc games with other players through your digital game library.

A digital console refresh is not the original Xbox One Strategy; in fact, discs were a major part of the 2013 Xbox One Strategy. Specifically, the ability to use discs as if they were digital games. (You didn't have to swap discs to play them.) The original Xbox One strategy wasn't about revoking game ownership, it was about allowing you to treat your physical games as if they were digital.

On a side note, Microsoft have gone out of their way to provide you access and ability to play your digital Xbox 360 games on Xbox Series X. The biggest limiting factor being music/car licensing; which is why we never got the ability to play the older Forza Motorsports on Xbox Series X. We can play Forza Horizon and more than a hundred other games at no extra charge; something no other console platform offers.

My comment about people being surprised was a more general comment about people I've seen on YouTube or Twitter, should have been clearer in my post.

I am giggling at the idea that MS will come to your door and confiscate your Forza Motorsport 2 disc, because EULA)

Not sure what the giggling is accomplishing, just showing you that EULA is the same for disc bought games. They can seek legal action against you for breaking the EULA; such as copying and distributing copies of the game.

although your posts do kind of give away the answer even if you're very much not intending on doing so.

In my posts I explained the reasoning behind why console manufacturers would release a console without a disc drive; that reason being market research. Which is why both the new Xbox and PS5 refresh do not have disc drives from the information that we have.

I own a PS5, Nintendo Switch, Xbox Series X, and a Gaming PC and I own thousands of digital games across all of them; so I am not sure what you are insinuating my posts say about me.

A very good question that I was scratching my head about while researching...

The current modern Xbox Series X and S could have new codenames due to smaller and less noticeable updates made in production. Anaconda was also the codename for the development of the Xbox Series X, they might've changed codenames for the actual production model.

 

[mistamontiel]

Go home

Stay PC

eggsboxes

 

[Tornado]

Man, the company line runs strong in this thread.

 

[kjeldsen]

delete

 

[INEEDNAWZZZ]

Xbox even allows people to put Xbox 360 game discs in an Xbox Series X and play BC, something that Nintendo and Sony have not even come close offering. Xbox offers more game preservation at not extra cost than both Nintendo and Sony.

This still has a problem attached to it; the disc doesn't really do anything. All it does is allow the Xbox to recognise a specific file on its server and downloads it. In fact, that is how literally how 99% of Xbox One and Series titles work. What happens 10 or 20 years from now when those servers are shut and you don't have something already installed? Your Xbone or Series X/S will just become a fancy paperweight.

Xbox's BC is great, honestly the best in the business, but let's not kid ourselves and act like these things are running natively. Sony and Nintendo have pulled some pretty scummy business practices in recent years, but at the very least I can put a disc/game card in that I've paid for and play, without any questions asked, regardless of an internet connection. Now, whether the games these days are actually playable without a day one patch is another story, but that's more of an industry wide issue. Hell, I even have to give Nintendo some credit, for their own titles they do actually redistribute their carts with the most up-to-date version on them after a few updates have gone out. Not ideal for people who own day one copies in the future admittedly, but its more of a plus overall than either Sony or MS.

 

[R55NA]

If they go Disc-less, I guess I will continue to purchase everything via the Turkey Xbox Store.



Dunno about anyone else but I like MONEY!

I will buy Resident Evil 4 or Dead Space, complete it, and trade it in/sell it to recoup most of my money, and re-invest that into another game.

There will never be a scenario where I am paying £60/70 for a digital asset I cannot sell on, thats why I don't understand why PC gamers are so happy to do it, maybe because they have no choice...

 

[AttackDickie]

While I collect physical media when it comes to films, I buy most games digitally now. You always have sales and trading in just isn't worth my time these days. And while Xboxs blu-ray player is atrocious, they should ALWAYS give players the choice!

 

[Mirai]

I’m hardly surprised
I still have a pretty big collection of physical games, but these days most of the stuff I buy is digital
90% of my PS5’s library is either PS+ games or stuff I bought from the PlayStation Store
I’d happily sell all of my physical Xbox games for the sake of easy access if I could justify the price (You’d think Microsoft would make it slightly cheaper if they’re cutting the disc drive)

 

[Famine]

This is absolutely nothing like a "repackaging of the original Xbox One strategy."

 

[R55NA]

sales and trading in just isn't worth my time these days.

Xbox Store sales for new games are pitiful though. You are relying on websites like CD Keys. Jedi Survivor is still £70, same as Dead Space, and they are 9 months old.

Dead Space was £18 physical a month or so ago, and now sitting in and around £30 (which you can sell on for the same price)

Unless you're loaded, I don't see how trading in or selling isnt worth it

 

[AttackDickie]

Xbox Store sales for new games are pitiful though. You are relying on websites like CD Keys. Jedi Survivor is still £70, same as Dead Space, and they are 9 months old.

Dead Space was £18 physical a month or so ago, and now sitting in and around £30 (which you can sell on for the same price)

Unless you're loaded, I don't see how trading in or selling isnt worth it

Not loaded more like can't be arsed lol. But I spent a lifetime trading in when I had to!

 

[Touring Mars]

Ellewood? I'm disappointed that they didn't call the other one Jake.

 

[TypeRDC5]

I will buy Resident Evil 4 or Dead Space, complete it, and trade it in/sell it to recoup most of my money, and re-invest that into another game.

This is what I do.

I buy games second hand, complete them and sell them on, even made a small profit on a few occasions.

It's the only way I can justify spending money on gaming these days.

I do wonder who actually buys these digital deluxe editions for £100 months after release, I mean people must be buying them because they are everywhere.

 

[AshenGraey]

Not sure if this has been asked before but with this whole shift to digital only console, why are the games still priced the same as if they were on physical disc? I looked up a game at EB-Games and it was 89.99 for the disc, I go on PS Store and it is listed for the same price. IMO, if we are shifting to digital only in the future, those prices should be less since those gaming companies are not spending money to produce physical discs for the games. In addition, those consoles should be coming with a minimum of 1TB of storage space on them. Otherwise, not only are you paying for something that you cannot trade or resell but you quickly running out of storage with how much space those games take. I don't mind the shift but it needs to make sense especially when looking at how expensive games are these days.

 

[INEEDNAWZZZ]

Not sure if this has been asked before but with this whole shift to digital only console, why are the games still priced the same as if they were on physical disc? I looked up a game at EB-Games and it was 89.99 for the disc, I go on PS Store and it is listed for the same price. IMO, if we are shifting to digital only in the future, those prices should be less since those gaming companies are not spending money to produce physical discs for the games.

This has been the argument against digital purchases (on console anyway) since their inception. Sony's PSP Go flopped because people asked why they'd bother being restricted to paying full price for stuff on their storefront when they can buy a tangible, physical copy of the same thing for cheaper. Anybody who defended it got slated; it was common sense, I mean who'd want to pay more for less?

Fast forward 14 years however, and subscription models, streaming and 'disposable' entertainment has taken over. The vast majority of people just don't care anymore. They don't take a minute to think 'hmm, why am I paying full price to cover the cost of printing a disc and case, shipping the game and taking up shelf space in a store when I'm just downloading a file?'. Instead, they think 'oh wow, a new FIFA EA football game? I'll download that immediately!'. It's convenience that masks the underlying problems and the general population doesn't care. Because people have already started en masse buying digital content at full price, there is no way they're now going to change course and offer discounts compared to physical copies.

 

[Tornado]

Not sure if this has been asked before but with this whole shift to digital only console, why are the games still priced the same as if they were on physical disc?

The same reason this console revision is rumored to be the same price even though the price to make it will be substantially lower than it was when the system launched: Because 🤬 you, that's why.

 

[Mr Grumpy]

What's worse is on the switch you go to a shop & buy a game case with just a download code in because the game is too big to fit on the cartridge.

 

[Joey D]

There will never be a scenario where I am paying £60/70 for a digital asset I cannot sell on, thats why I don't understand why PC gamers are so happy to do it, maybe because they have no choice...

Even when there was still physical media for PC games, I still preferred digital due to convenience. If I want a game, it's a couple of clicks and it downloads instead of either going to the store or buying it online and waiting for it to ship. It also cuts down on having just one more thing sitting around too or going to search for a disk of something you want to play, but uninstalled. Steam just makes it so easy for me, I really don't want to use anything else.

 

[MonoTonouS]

Get a job and support game developers. I know of an apprenticeship you can join right now, with no experience, that starts at $22 an hour and you'll be making $33 an hour within 4 years.

Piracy actually encourages digital game sales, as the loss of profit from piracy can be recovered by selling games directly on their own storefront and without physical packaging and shipping.

I make roughly 300 an hour . But enjoy playing your 15 year old de listed game legitimately . I had to purchase Mortal Kombat on PC using a " grey" market code because the game was de listed like 4 years ago , I can not support netherrealm studios even if i wanted too . Further every game I buy second hand also means they don't see a penny. Piracy is the only way to play some games now unless you want to hunt down grey market codes , or pay hundreds for a physical copy which in no way or form supports devs .