Xbox Series X Set For a Discless Redesign in 2024, According to Court Document Leak

[FordGTGuy]

I make roughly 300 an hour . But enjoy playing your 15 year old de listed game legitimately . I had to purchase Mortal Kombat on PC using a " grey" market code because the game was de listed like 4 years ago , I can not support netherrealm studios even if i wanted too . Further every game I buy second hand also means they don't see a penny. Piracy is the only way to play some games now unless you want to hunt down grey market codes , or pay hundreds for a physical copy which in no way or form supports devs .

I personally don't consider it piracy if it is literally the only way to obtain the game, if it cannot be bought in any way. Of course, our personal definitions mean nothing legally.

If you make roughly $300 an hour then you have no excuse to pirate any games that are available to purchase.

I still have access to many games that I bought digitally over 10-15 years ago. Just because a game is delisted doesn't't mean you cannot download and play it. I can download and play Forza Motorsport 7 on either my Xbox or PC right now and it is delisted.

Not that it might have been available when you bought the key, but GOG now has the Mortal Kombat trilogy for sale.

Mortal Kombat Trilogy

This successor to the arcade megahits features the meanest of the mean and the baddest of

www.gog.com

"Grey" market codes are not piracy.

 

[Famine]

It's a good thing Microsoft now says its "adorably all digital" future plans are outdated

Yesterday's mammoth leak of Microsoft documentation was eye-opening for all sorts of reasons, not least because it laid…

www.eurogamer.net

Such a move would have marked a monumental shift by Microsoft away from disc-based media, to a future where playing games relies solely on unsharable digital licences or ongoing subscription memberships.

To my mind, at least, such a scenario would likely still prompt the kind of PR nightmare Microsoft must know it does not want on its doorstep once again, after the painful memories of the last time Microsoft tried something like this, and left an open goal for PlayStation executives to video themselves passing game boxes to each other. Even the phrasing of "adorably all digital" set my teeth on edge and raised the zombified spectre of Don Mattrick - an era I thought we'd long left buried.

Xbox kills physical media with its new Series X — for real this time

An all-digital console range — as proposed in leaked Microsoft papers — is an unprecedented step, and there’s no going back from it

www.polygon.com

It was just over 10 years ago that Microsoft’s gaming division — then led by Don Mattrick, an executive who sometimes seemed like he’d been replaced by a malfunctioning automaton — first revealed the Xbox One to the world, and explained that it heralded an all-digital future in which users would buy game licenses rather than games. (Even if they bought them on disc!) The policy was vilified by fans, excoriated by the press — “Microsoft kills game ownership and expects us to smile,” wrote my old boss at Eurogamer in one pitiless takedown — and openly mocked by Sony on a live E3 stage in perhaps the most devastating, and certainly the most memorable, finishing move of the console wars.

...

But Mattrick wasn’t wrong. He had seen the future; it’s just that his timing was off — and apparently, Spencer knew it. That much is evident from leaked plans for a mid-generation refresh of the Xbox console range, which includes a redesigned, “all-digital” Xbox Series X with no disc drive. Its sister console, the Series S, is already a digital-only device. (Sony also makes a digital-only PlayStation 5.) So if Microsoft’s plan to replace the existing Xbox Series models in late 2024 comes to fruition, it will be the first console manufacturer to leave physical media behind altogether. The next big question, then, is at what point Microsoft will stop manufacturing and distributing game discs entirely.

Ten Years After Xbox One’s Debut, Microsoft Really Will Kill Physical Discs

Back in 2013, the gaming public was not ready for what Microsoft wanted to say. The era of physical discs was ending. If they still existed, they’d be little more than licenses for digital copies of games, rather than games themselves.

www.forbes.com

Back in 2013, the gaming public was not ready for what Microsoft wanted to say. The era of physical discs was ending. If they still existed, they’d be little more than licenses for digital copies of games, rather than games themselves.

Everyone hated it. No more game sharing (as Sony demonstrated in a now famous video). No more physical collection. No more resales to GameStop. Microsoft would be shattering decades old pillars of the industry. Eventually, the pushback was forceful enough where they had to relent.

Now in 2023, they’re about to do it again. Though this time, pushback is so far a lot more muted. The just-leaked Xbox Series X redesign is not just a cylinder instead of a box, it also has no disc drive, a difference from the current Series X and joining the Series S, which didn’t have one from the start.

And it may simply be the inevitable end of the road. While video game consoles are not going away, as has been previously predicted, the discs themselves are now not long for this world.

It'S nOtHiNg LiKe ThAt

 

[FordGTGuy]

It's a good thing Microsoft now says its "adorably all digital" future plans are outdated

Yesterday's mammoth leak of Microsoft documentation was eye-opening for all sorts of reasons, not least because it laid…

www.eurogamer.net

It'S nOtHiNg LiKe ThAt

It isn't.

The 2013 strategy involved the use of a disc drive and specifically allowed sharing of digital purchases. Need I remind you that the 2013 Xbox One always had a disc drive and it was never proposed to not have one.

These are the main points of the 2013 strategy:

• 24-hour interval online check-ups to maintain ability to play and ownership. (This was because you would have been able to treat physical discs as digital copies and then still trade them in to retailers or transfer ownership to others.)
• Shared access to game library for 10 "friends and family members" that you can share your game library with.
• Ability give or transfer your digital purchases to other players.
• Use a physical disc game without the disc as if it were a digital game.
• Share your physical disc games with other players through your digital game library.

 

[Famine]

It isn't.

The 2013 strategy involved the use of a disc drive and specifically allowed sharing of digital purchases. Need I remind you that the 2013 Xbox One always had a disc drive and it was never proposed to not have one.

• There are no 24-hour interval online check-ups.
• There is no plan to let you have a library of 10 "friends and family members" that you can share your game library with.
• You cannot give or transfer your digital purchases to other players.
• You cannot use a physical disc game without the disc as if it were a digital game.
• You cannot share your physical disc games with other players through your digital game library.

Yeah, again you're pretending something different from what was posted - and it's weird you've posted this list for the third time, despite it being nonsensical to do so the first twice...

I'm just amazed you haven't added "The Xbox One was rectangular, not cylindrical" to your list of irrelevant rebuttals.

Here, let me help you back to the point you're desperately trying to miss:

MS finally gets to realise its ambition to end game ownership, 10 years on from announcing it and having to walk it back after the highly negative reaction.

MS wants you to buy revokable licences, not games. That's what the XB1 was about before everyone hated it, and that's what the dropping of physical drives - from XSS, to XSX Brooklin, to Xbox 2028 - is about.

Whether you want to recognise it or not, this is a repackaging of the original Xbox One strategy - where you no longer own any games and Microsoft can simply turn off your access to any (or all) of them at any time - and people were pissed back then too:

a future where playing games relies solely on unsharable digital licences or ongoing subscription memberships

Still chuckling at you floating the notion that MS's lawyers can repossess your game discs, because EULA.

 

[FordGTGuy]

Yeah, again you're pretending something different from what was posted - and it's weird you've posted this list for the third time, despite it being nonsensical to do so the first twice...

I'm just amazed you haven't added "The Xbox One was rectangular, not cylindrical" to your list of irrelevant rebuttals.

Here, let me help you back to the point you're desperately trying to miss:



Still chuckling at you floating the notion that MS's lawyers can repossess your game discs, because EULA.

I never said they would reposses your game disc, I said they can take legal action against you for breaking the EULA.

Such as illegal copying and distribution.

They can also ban your console from online use for breaking the EULA whether or not it is digital or disc format.

 

[Famine]

I never said they would reposses your game disc, I said they can take legal action against you for breaking the EULA.

All EULAs, including game discs, are revokable licenses.

This only makes sense if you either don't know what "revokable" means or think that game discs can be repossessed.

 

[FordGTGuy]

This only makes sense if you either don't know what "revokable" means or think that game discs can be repossessed.

Revokable meaning the license not the physical disc. A license is a legal contract you accept when you purchase a game. If you break a EULA they are technically able to revoke your license to to legally play the copy.

I was referring to EULAs that are included with game discs, the EULA contract itself is revokable.

This is why it is legal for game companies to ban you from online access in games you have bought.

The disc itself is your personal property, it's a physical medium with a copy of a game you have a contractual license to play.

 

[Famine]

Revokable meaning the license not the physical disc.

A licence on a physical disc is not revokable unless the disc is repossessed. It's literally a physical item which contains the licence to the software. No matter what I do with... let's say Gran Turismo 4, Sony won't be able to stop me from playing it because I have the physical disc containing the software and the licence for the software (and a console on which to play it). It is not revokable without repossessing the disc (which it cannot do).

Moving to purely digital "ownership" gives publishers the power to revoke the licence at any time and for any reason - and given how petty and thin-skinned companies are these days, and how far-reaching social media is, that could be for something as banal as saying it's a 4/10 game; lest you think that's unlikely, we've literally seen companies cancelling paid orders for products based on social media comments. It is revokable.


Again, this (and not all the other things you're pretending it means) is what Microsoft planned in 2013 and is seemingly repackaging for 2024 (and more so for 2028): the literal end of game ownership. It wants you to rent licences, not buy games.

 

[R55NA]

I make roughly 300 an hour .

NFT's and Crypto dont count

 

[MonoTonouS]

NFT's and Crypto dont count

Lawyer.

I personally don't consider it piracy if it is literally the only way to obtain the game, if it cannot be bought in any way. Of course, our personal definitions mean nothing legally.

If you make roughly $300 an hour then you have no excuse to pirate any games that are available to purchase.

I still have access to many games that I bought digitally over 10-15 years ago. Just because a game is delisted doesn't't mean you cannot download and play it. I can download and play Forza Motorsport 7 on either my Xbox or PC right now and it is delisted.

Not that it might have been available when you bought the key, but GOG now has the Mortal Kombat trilogy for sale.

Mortal Kombat Trilogy

This successor to the arcade megahits features the meanest of the mean and the baddest of

www.gog.com

"Grey" market codes are not piracy.

Im talking about Mortal Kombat ( 9) . Not the old ones. Piracy is the only way to preserve games going forward. Patches won't be online forever either , there are places to download pirated patches along with the full game . If a disk copy exist , its surely a second hand copy .

Also the only way for me to play forza 7 and it's DLC on pc is to pirate it ... Hence why piracy is the only counter to the downside of an all digital game .

It's literally NOT about money .

 

[Mr Grumpy]

Lawyer.


Im talking about Mortal Kombat ( 9) . Not the old ones. Piracy is the only way to preserve games going forward. Patches won't be online forever either , there are places to download pirated patches along with the full game . If a disk copy exist , its surely a second hand copy .

Also the only way for me to play forza 7 and it's DLC on pc is to pirate it ... Hence why piracy is the only counter to the downside of an all digital game .

It's literally NOT about money .

You can still buy forza motorsport 7 if you want.

Get up to 90% off best selling video games | CDKeys.com

Don’t overpay! Enjoy the latest games at the cheapest price now. Get instant delivery of CD Keys for Steam, Origin, Uplay, Battle.net, GOG, PSN and XBOX.

www.cdkeys.com

 

[MonoTonouS]

You can still buy forza motorsport 7 if you want.

Get up to 90% off best selling video games | CDKeys.com

Don’t overpay! Enjoy the latest games at the cheapest price now. Get instant delivery of CD Keys for Steam, Origin, Uplay, Battle.net, GOG, PSN and XBOX.

www.cdkeys.com

It would delight you to know all CD keys are in legal grey areas and if you asked MS they would tell you it's 100% illegal.

They are also finite.

You are deliberately ignoring the core point of what I'm saying.

If digital only is the ONLY option , all we have is piracy to counter.

No CD = no other option but digital.
Game removed from storefront = unobtainable .

Servers shut down = unplayable / locked content .

 

[Mr Grumpy]

It would delight you to know all CD keys are in legal grey areas and if you asked MS they would tell you it's 100% illegal.

They are also finite.

You are deliberately ignoring the core point of what I'm saying.

If digital only is the ONLY option , all we have is piracy to counter.

No CD = no other option but digital.
Game removed from storefront = unobtainable .

Servers shut down = unplayable / locked content .

If it was all illegal according to MS then they wouldn't accept the cheap 3 years of gold codes which then get converted to ultimate. Also did you see what I posted about the switch game? Even though I went to a shop & bought a genuine game, within the box was just a download code because the game was to big to fit on the cartridge.

This will happen to all games at some point if they keep getting bigger & then digital will be the only way to get them.

 

[Artremis]

I don't really understand the point of defending the move to digital-only. It's just taking options away without any advantages in return other than Sony / MS / Nintendo get to save a few bucks on each console sold by not including the disk drive. The convenience of digital is undeniable (and it's how I purchase most games), but the option for physical media should always be there if only to not give game publishers or console manufacturers complete control over game pricing and availability.

Not completely surprised that it might be MS to push this first since their own physical offerings are pretty weak already with none of their games actually being on the disc, keeping the same 50GB/disc capacity as last generation for XSX discs, and smaller games like Hi-Fi Rush or Pentiment having no physical version to speak of. We can only hope this trend doesn't catch on.

 

[Tornado]

Rolled into the general layoff bloodbath that Microsoft announced this morning.

 

[Joey D]

Seems like it was inevitable. Supposedly Wal Mart has started pulling physical copies off the shelves starting with Starfield just because people aren't buying them:

Starfield Discs Could Be Removed From Sale At US Retail Giant Soon

Living in a digital world

www.purexbox.com

 

[Tornado]

I think most people just figured when that news came out was because it was lol Starfield.




Either Microsoft's physical attach rate is far less than we know Sony's first party games have or they figure they'll just force the issue regardless so they can try and lower the console price on their end instead of the perpetual $100+ off Series X sales that they're certainly losing piles of money on.

 

[INEEDNAWZZZ]

Either Microsoft's physical attach rate is far less than we know Sony's first party games have or they figure they'll just force the issue regardless so they can try and lower the console price on their end instead of the perpetual $100+ off Series X sales that they're certainly losing piles of money on.

Most likely the latter. With pretty much everything MS has put out this generation, none of the physical copies have the full game on disc. They all launch into Game Pass day and date too of course, so there’s very little incentive for people to buy a disc copy. That way, they have the perfect opportunity to convince investors to scrap them in the future.

Ironically, the one physical title of theirs that is actually content complete I believe is the Series X version of Flight Simulator, to the point where it actually comes on two discs; though, it’s still arguably moot as the game relies on streaming to get the best out of it.

 

[andersonrezende]

Going digital instead of physical this generation has started to make sense.

Not only cross-gen bundles are interesting for an eventual One to Series X/S upgrade because one purchase gives access to versions of the game for both generations, but also buying a disc for a X/S exclusive title like FM 2023 doesn't mean buying a game for a platform, but for a device.

In case you have to sell your Series X for a Series S for whatever reason like needing money but not quitting gaming or upgrading to the next adorably all digital model in case your current one fails, you're left with useless discs and having to buy your library of games again.

Same with PS5 and its Digital counterpart. There's a loss of flexibility.

 

[Mr Grumpy]

Going digital instead of physical this generation has started to make sense.

Not only cross-gen bundles are interesting for an eventual One to Series X/S upgrade because one purchase gives access to versions of the game for both generations, but also buying a disc for a X/S exclusive title like FM 2023 doesn't mean buying a game for a platform, but for a device.

In case you have to sell your Series X for a Series S for whatever reason like needing money but not quitting gaming or upgrading to the next adorably all digital model in case your current one fails, you're left with useless discs and having to buy your library of games again.

Same with PS5 and its Digital counterpart. There's a loss of flexibility.

Until you need a refund for a game that don't work as described then you end up in my current situation regarding threatening legal action because they won't refund a broken digital game that's been played because "hey" you don't need to play it to see if it's working or not, or maybe they can't resell it because you opened the digital case or maybe they can't put it back on their digital shelf for resale.

If it's going all digital then there needs to be an available trial of any game at any point of its life available to the consumer so they can check that the item is in a worthy condition for purchase at anytime before they buy as you can't rely on any social media platforms/youtubers because they won't get their freebies anymore.

Games company's can't be allowed to keep shipping their unfinished products on us & hardware company's can't keep advertising/selling unfinished products from their digital stores.

 

[TypeRDC5]

Until you need a refund for a game that don't work as described then you end up in my current situation regarding threatening legal action because they won't refund a broken digital game that's been played because "hey" you don't need to play it to see if it's working or not, or maybe they can't resell it because you opened the digital case or maybe they can't put it back on their digital shelf for resale.

If it's going all digital then there needs to be an available trial of any game at any point of its life available to the consumer so they can check that the item is in a worthy condition for purchase at anytime before they buy as you can't rely on any social media platforms/youtubers because they won't get their freebies anymore.

Games company's can't be allowed to keep shipping their unfinished products on us & hardware company's can't keep advertising/selling unfinished products from their digital stores.

Couldn't agree more, steam has the right idea with a simple refund within 2 hours but even then I simply don't like digital only.

Games like Returnal for example are still £70 on the psn store! Can get it for half price physical or even cheaper second hand.
Not to mention you can sell games after you're done with them.

Each to their own of course but the day it all goes digital only will be the day I'm priced out of gaming and stop buying new consoles/games.

 

[Mr Grumpy]

Couldn't agree more, steam has the right idea with a simple refund within 2 hours but even then I simply don't like digital only.

Games like Returnal for example are still £70 on the psn store! Can get it for half price physical or even cheaper second hand.
Not to mention you can sell games after you're done with them.

Each to their own of course but the day it all goes digital only will be the day I'm priced out of gaming and stop buying new consoles/games.

I never buy a game full price for myself or the kids, I'll always wait till a sale just because most games release like crap nowadays anyway & if the kids really want a game I'll check places like cdkeys first to see how much cheaper they have it. I done it recently for my eldest boy who wanted the avatar game, xbox store wanted £60 but cdkeys was selling it for £35 2 weeks after release. And if nothing is available I tell them to wait as all games go on sale eventually. You're correct though it's the resale/trade in value that you miss out on in the digital world.

 

[INEEDNAWZZZ]

There are reports that MS are planning to release Starfield and potentially other big titles on the PS5, leaving many people to assume that their new long term plan is to pull a Sega and become platform agnostic. May just be the internet doomposting as per normal, but if true, that could be a monumental middle finger to those that invested in their ecosystem (myself included).

 

[FT-1]

From what I've read regarding those reports, the news sounds ominous for those of us who've built a sizeable library on Xbox platforms, especially when you take these points into account:



Going forward, new Xbox hardware will be a tough sell, which makes you wonder if they will be continuing with hardware at all once this generation has ended. If anything, future dedicated Xboxes will most likely be Game Pass streaming devices.

 

[INEEDNAWZZZ]

The fact they haven't denied / acknowledged anything is most worrying. That last point you made is where I think they're going. Not leaving hardware completely per se, but its also not a conventional game system either; MS is a services company through and through. Much like a Surface tablet, a hardware sale is just a bonus - its their ecosystem they want you tied to. It does make you wonder what happens if Sony become the only alternative around (there's Nintendo, sure, but they've always done their own thing since the Wii).

 

[m355y]

not a surprising move from their point of view - Microsoft are losing this generation's 'console war' quite decisively despite, for me, the Series X probably being the stronger console in terms of ease of use, backwards compatability etc and - marginally- technical performance on multiplatform titles too. I really like the Series X but also get that unlike the PS5, it never had that 'wow factor' even at launch, it was overly familiar - which I appreciated because it made everything about the step up to the new gen so easy. But I can see that it's lacking from a certain perspective too.

I stopped subscribing to Game Pass because I didnt think the library was much good for the type of games I like, but it's certainly a model with a lot of upside if that's the route they want to take. But it'll certainly send me back to Sony because I like the more traditional aspect of owning games etc. It'll feel strange if they do do a Sega.

 

[Eunos_Cosmo]

I think there are a lot of people, including myself, that have a strong distaste for how enveloped in Microsoft you feel as an Xbox owner. I also feel like the quality of their first party releases as nosedived substantially. The Forza franchise in particular, IMO, feels like it's made for as little investment as possible to achieve some on paper parity with Gran Turismo. The resulting games feel absolutely soulless to me and it colors the whole Xbox experience - achieving some kind of engagement metrics with the bare minimum of investment. It's fine if they want to do that, but I'm not paying for it anymore - I'm tired of paying for games that have a palpable lack of passion and care put into them. This is why I switched to PS5 this generation, after being primarily an Xbox owner since the 360 debuted. I'm not gonna say that Sony is a bastion of commitment to the work over counting revenue, but it feels better.

 

[FT-1]

Looks like this new strategy is going to be detailed at some point next week. Phil hasn't denied the reports either:

 

[Mr Grumpy]

I love that, "we're listening & we hear you"....

No option to disable quick resume yet
Still can't assign multiple buttons on a sim wheel
Can't use analogue mode as a handbrake on th8a shifter
No available apps for compatible sim equipment (thrustmaster/logitech/fanetec etc)
No VR compatibility (xbox or third party)
Abandoned family game pass option
Selling broken unfinished abandoned games on store with no chance of refunds on digital purchases
Still can't customise home screen

Listening? Yeah, I'm sure you are Phillip...

 

[FerrariF1GT]

At this point I think it’s undeniable that Game Pass is MS’s strategy going forward, if it hasn’t already since the start of the generation at least. Even if first-party Xbox games go multiplatform, there’s still the appeal of games coming day and date on Game Pass (assuming MS doesn’t sell Game Pass on PlayStation/Switch), even if that’s not a model that appeals to me.

I’m not sure what MS’s gambit is. There seems to be more appetite for game ownership as opposed to a subscription in the PS5 and Switch crowds, and even to me Xbox is now ‘the Game Pass console.’ And the first-party games aren’t really up to snuff compared to Sony’s/Nintendo’s offerings either IMO, plus as someone who’s on PC I don’t really have a reason to get an Xbox when the games come day and date on PC anyway.

Obviously the industry has changed substantially since Sega went third-party, and it’s hard for me to draw parallels to Sega besides the fact of losing the hardware sales battle (which probably is the crux of the issue in fairness).