Yet another "what should I buy?" thread

[Joey D]

I really wish people would stop saying this. Yes, a lot of younger drivers will crash their cars but it isn't a guarantee and it can be discouraging to hear. I've never crashed any of my vehicles and my wife has never had an at fault accident either.

It's about setting realistic expectations. Statistically, new drivers will probably have a crash. It probably won't be a serious one, but something like a fender bend is pretty close to a guarantee whether you're at fault or not. So given that new drivers are far more likely to have a crash than not, looking at a car with high marks in safety makes sense. Also, due to this, it makes sense just to buy whatever for your first car and then get something you'll like more for your second.

I know I made this mistake and got something I liked for my first car and guess what? I promptly hit a tree with it because I was vastly inexperienced with how to deal with a situation.

So while GT Nismo's list reads like a budget car rental place at some BFE airport, it probably doesn't really matter what he ends up with as long as it's reasonably safe...which most cars made in the 2010+ time frame he's looking at are.

 

[Tornado]

The only way an Intrepid would get 22 city is if it was falling off a skyscraper.

 

[Danoff]

I really wish people would stop saying this. Yes, a lot of younger drivers will crash their cars but it isn't a guarantee and it can be discouraging to hear. I've never crashed any of my vehicles and my wife has never had an at fault accident either.

"At fault" doesn't necessarily change the outlook. New drivers are more likely to have an accident in which they are not at fault simply because they are not driving defensively, informed by a long exposure to the consistent mistakes of others. It still results in fender-benders (or more).

 

[Eunos_Cosmo]

"At fault" doesn't necessarily change the outlook. New drivers are more likely to have an accident in which they are not at fault simply because they are not driving defensively, informed by a long exposure to the consistent mistakes of others. It still results in fender-benders (or more).

Related(?): My first car was a complete POS, cam'ed, 5-speed 5.0 Mustang with perpetually bald tires, completely destroyed suspension, and effectively no brakes. It didn't have enough power to be fast, but it had enough torque to be dangerous. It forced me to drive defensively against the car itself.

 

[Danoff]

Counterpoint: My first car was a complete POS, cam'ed, 5-speed 5.0 Mustang with perpetually bald tires, completely destroyed suspension, and effectively no brakes. It forced me to drive defensively against the car itself.

I had a VW Beetle that would stall when you took your foot off the gas. I learned to heel-toe not because I was racing or doing anything fun, but because I didn't want to pop the clutch while making a left in front of on-coming traffic. I didn't even know it was called heel-toe.

 

[Eunos_Cosmo]

I had a VW Beetle that would stall when you took your foot off the gas. I learned to heel-toe not because I was racing or doing anything fun, but because I didn't want to pop the clutch while making a left in front of on-coming traffic. I didn't even know it was called heel-toe.

Ha! My Merkur XR4ti (technically my first car, but I didn't pay for it so I don't count it) had a vacuum leak so bad that if I didn't have my foot on the gas the engine would also stall. I also worked around this via heel-and-toe. And the wastegate for the turbocharger was broken so it would run 20+psi...with unmetered air.

Also, I forgot that my Mustang was made in the bad old days of Ford, when they smelted down, presumably, gum wrappers to make their aluminum. Consequently, the bellhousing and timing cover would constantly strip out....no matter how many times I replaced the starter, it would only work about 10% of the time. I learned to park at the top of hills so that I could clutch-kick start the damn thing. If not...I had to push the car up to about 5mph, jump in, and do the same thing. Through all of that, every single dollar I made I spent on trying to make it go faster rather than be safer or even more reliable. Man. I had some real pieces of work. The Merkur was so bad I bought another one...because that seemed like a good idea. I didn't pay more than $4,000 for any of my first 6 cars.

 

[Danoff]

Ha! My Merkur XR4ti (technically my first car, but I didn't pay for it so I don't count it) had a vacuum leak so bad that if I didn't have my foot on the gas the engine would also stall. I also worked around this via heel-and-toe. And the wastegate for the turbocharger was broken so it would run 20+psi...with unmetered air.

Also, I forgot that my Mustang was made in the bad old days of Ford, when they smelted down, presumably, gum wrappers to make their aluminum. Consequently, the bellhousing and timing cover would constantly strip out....no matter how many times I replaced the starter, it would only work about 10% of the time. I learned to park at the top of hills so that I could clutch-kick start the damn thing. If not...I had to push the car up to about 5mph, jump in, and do the same thing. Through all of that, every single dollar I made I spent on trying to make it go faster rather than be safer or even more reliable. Man. I had some real pieces of work. The Merkur was so bad I bought another one...because that seemed like a good idea. I didn't pay more than $4,000 for any of my first 6 cars.

Oh yea?!

My car's horn would get pinched in the steering column, so when I turned, the horn would sound the entire way through the turn. That did eventually get fixed, because it couldn't pass inspection, but I drove it like that for many months.

A hard turn was like... beeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeep.

A gentle turn was like... bee ee ee eeeeee ee e eeeee e ep.

 

[Eunos_Cosmo]

Oh yea?!

My car's horn would get pinched in the steering column, so when I turned, the horn would sound the entire way through the turn. That did eventually get fixed, because it couldn't pass inspection, but I drove it like that for many months.

A hard turn was like... beeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeep.

A gentle turn was like... bee ee ee eeeeee ee e eeeee e ep.

I'm starting to sense a thread opportunity....maybe later.

 

[Tornado]

I bought a Northstar.

 

[SVX]

I really wish people would stop saying this. Yes, a lot of younger drivers will crash their cars but it isn't a guarantee and it can be discouraging to hear. I've never crashed any of my vehicles and my wife has never had an at fault accident either.

@GranTurNismo Who is paying for the car? Your parents, you or a combination of both?

Everyone I know who has had a quick car has ended up in an accident with it. AE101 (4AFE), country road driving, too quick, took out a fence.

DC5 Type S. This guy was someone you could see on GTP as a respected member- a pretty good guy. Even that didn't stop him from showing off in a bad place, overcorrecting and sending it down a bank.

318ti. I saw him days prior, was driving no seatbelt and texting, drove off the side of the road and was flung out of his car. Now an empty shell for the rest of his life.

I think the point Joey is trying to make is that it's not necessarily a driving off a country mountain road, wrecking your car accident that's guaranteed. It *could* be that, but the little things, like misjudging following distances and rear ending someone, or even just reversing into someone at a car park. These all happen due to being inexperienced with driving. You need to make mistakes to be able to improve as a driver, as otherwise when something does happen, you won't know what to do. I've never been convinced a super modern V6 wagon is the one to provide that experience personally.

 

[Parker]

It's about setting realistic expectations. Statistically, new drivers will probably have a crash. It probably won't be a serious one, but something like a fender bend is pretty close to a guarantee whether you're at fault or not. So given that new drivers are far more likely to have a crash than not, looking at a car with high marks in safety makes sense. Also, due to this, it makes sense just to buy whatever for your first car and then get something you'll like more for your second.

I know I made this mistake and got something I liked for my first car and guess what? I promptly hit a tree with it because I was vastly inexperienced with how to deal with a situation.

So while GT Nismo's list reads like a budget car rental place at some BFE airport, it probably doesn't really matter what he ends up with as long as it's reasonably safe...which most cars made in the 2010+ time frame he's looking at are.

I agree, realistic expectations should be set. I don't think saying you will crash your first car is something you should be saying to a new driver. It tells them that no matter what they do, no matter how attentive they are, they are going to crash their car, and that simply isn't true.

"At fault" doesn't necessarily change the outlook. New drivers are more likely to have an accident in which they are not at fault simply because they are not driving defensively, informed by a long exposure to the consistent mistakes of others. It still results in fender-benders (or more).

I take someone saying they will crash their car to mean they will be the person at fault for a crash.

Everyone I know who has had a quick car has ended up in an accident with it. AE101 (4AFE), country road driving, too quick, took out a fence.

DC5 Type S. This guy was someone you could see on GTP as a respected member- a pretty good guy. Even that didn't stop him from showing off in a bad place, overcorrecting and sending it down a bank.

318ti. I saw him days prior, was driving no seatbelt and texting, drove off the side of the road and was flung out of his car. Now an empty shell for the rest of his life.

I think the point Joey is trying to make is that it's not necessarily a driving off a country mountain road, wrecking your car accident that's guaranteed. It *could* be that, but the little things, like misjudging following distances and rear ending someone, or even just reversing into someone at a car park. These all happen due to being inexperienced with driving. You need to make mistakes to be able to improve as a driver, as otherwise when something does happen, you won't know what to do. I've never been convinced a super modern V6 wagon is the one to provide that experience personally.

Honestly, I think teenagers that purchase their own vehicles are less likely to crash as opposed to teenagers whose parents buy their first cars. That is just coming from personal experience but when I was in high school, the majority of kids who actually worked for and bought their cars not only maintained them better, they were much better drivers as well. Of all my personal friends in high school, only 1 who bought his car crashed it, whereas those who had free cars seemed to have no issues with texting and driving as well as various other bad habits. Again, this is just personal experience.

Still, I think telling someone they will crash their car doesn't help. I think it would be much better to explain that as a young/inexperienced driver they will be more likely to be in an accident simply because they don't have experience so they need to be even more attentive to the road/other drivers.

 

[Joey D]

I agree, realistic expectations should be set. I don't think saying you will crash your first car is something you should be saying to a new driver. It tells them that no matter what they do, no matter how attentive they are, they are going to crash their car, and that simply isn't true.

While not 100% true, the likelihood of it happening vastly outweighs it not happening. And to this point...

I take someone saying they will crash their car to mean they will be the person at fault for a crash.

Being involved in a crash does not mean it's your fault. If you have lack of experience you're more likely to be unable to avoid a certain situation like @SVX pointed out.

I think it's more than fair to tell new drivers they'll end up in some sort of incident with their vehicle. In doing so, it takes a realistic outlook on the matter and makes them aware of the statistic. It also shows them that they're no invincible behind the wheel, which unfortunately many new drivers do think...especially ones who are gearheads to begin with. Of course, you might avoid an accident totally, but going in with the mindset you will end up in an accident should heighten your awareness to it.

 

[SVX]

Honestly, I think teenagers that purchase their own vehicles are less likely to crash as opposed to teenagers whose parents buy their first cars. That is just coming from personal experience but when I was in high school, the majority of kids who actually worked for and bought their cars not only maintained them better, they were much better drivers as well. Of all my personal friends in high school, only 1 who bought his car crashed it, whereas those who had free cars seemed to have no issues with texting and driving as well as various other bad habits. Again, this is just personal experience.

All of the people I mentioned actually bought their own cars, funnily enough. I think it depends on the type of person more- my car was paid for by my dad, yet I felt terrible for scratching an interior panel once.

 

[GTV0819]

@GranTurNismo Who is paying for the car? Your parents, you or a combination of both?

I am wondering what suddenly made you bring this unnecessary question up. I mean that's a personal question that only himself should keep the answer and know personally.

 

[Parker]

I am wondering what suddenly made you bring this unnecessary question up. I mean that's a personal question that only himself should keep the answer and know personally.

I don't think it is unnecessary at all. Of course, if he feels it is too personal then he can say so and simply say he would prefer not to answer. I bring it up because, as I said earlier, in my experience the people who have purchased their own cars tend to take better care of them when they were younger. So it may help him not be so discouraged by those who say you will crash your first car. Alternatively, if his parents are paying for it, my advice to him would be to allow his mother or father to purchase something they are comfortable with and not fight them too much over it. Of course, I still think he should be involved in the purchasing decision, but ultimately I don't think he should fight too hard against his parent's wishes if they are paying for it.

 

[SVX]

I am wondering what suddenly made you bring this unnecessary question up. I mean that's a personal question that only himself should keep the answer and know personally.

It can also impact on budget. If he's spending $10k, and we find that $14k is better for his criteria, it's not too bad to suggest to save a bit more. It's a bit harder when they're not paying for it in the first place.

 

[GTV0819]

I don't think it is unnecessary at all. Of course, if he feels it is too personal then he can say so and simply say he would prefer not to answer. I bring it up because, as I said earlier, in my experience the people who have purchased their own cars tend to take better care of them when they were younger. So it may help him not be so discouraged by those who say you will crash your first car. Alternatively, if his parents are paying for it, my advice to him would be to allow his mother or father to purchase something they are comfortable with and not fight them too much over it. Of course, I still think he should be involved in the purchasing decision, but ultimately I don't think he should fight too hard against his parent's wishes if they are paying for it.

Well, you didn't indicate any of that when you asked the question earlier. So I initially thought it became just a matter of knowing whether he's already capable of purchasing a vehicle on his own or not, because at first glance, it seemed like it.

 

[Tornado]

It should go without saying that it's pretty important to know who holds the purse strings because if it's as it has seemed so far, that he'll just get whatever his mother or whoever deems fit, then this thread has even less point than "what car should I buy" threads usually do if they are also the ones fronting the money.

 

[GTV0819]

^Lol the way you are justifying it would seem as if he didn't indicate any budget at all for the initial options he listed here.

Regarding the matter who'll shoulder whatever they end up buying can go both ways but right now, his initial post would obviously suggest that his parent would likely be the one to shoulder it simply because there's plenty of restrictions on their list, though maybe it's actually him who will do it while his parent is only holding him from buying whatever car he wants; hence, this thread.

And yes, you are right that this thread wouldn't have existed if not for their dilemma. I just believed that what he indicated here so far, the budget, restrictions, options, etc. should be good enough for people to make some opinions and suggest something that may help with his choice someday.