Your Opinions on the H-Shifter/Clutch Changes

[alp]

Maybe they even deserve an "advantage" for the effort of using a clutch and h pattern, but then if I wanted to be competitive in Sport mode I was forced to buy T3PA+TH8A (more or less 260€) since Thrustmaster doesn't give you them in bundle with the T300RS (already a 300€ buy). Then the whole narrative of Sport mode "from 7 to 77" thing that PD wants to push goes to hell.

The same goes for getting a wheel or not getting one at all as well; €300 vs €0. I know there are great players with DS4 but I personally benefit a lot from using a wheel. Then what would PD do if one day they find out people on wheels lap better times than those using DS4 (hypothetically speaking)? Nerf the wheels too?

 

[Tassie_tiger]

I genuinely laughed out loud.

You'll have to excuse my rudeness.

 

[fastone371]

This is literally the only game I play, it never leaves my console. So for me I’d rather send it back and use that money for a buttkicker that I can use with any car in this game.

I am the same way, the only PS4 game I play is GTS. The day that I play something else is the day I make the switch to iRacing and leave Sony for good. That's the main reason I bought a Fanatec

 

[Rinsky]

I just sent the following message to Thrustmaster;


"Dear Thrustmaster,

I would like to make you aware of losses in your product sales due to the poor behaviour of one of your licensing partners, namely Polyphony Digital. I am of course referring to the T-GT FFB wheel & GT Sport.

They have deliberately ruined the clutch model in their GT Sport game, making it virtually unplayable to your customers using the extra pedal sets with a clutch, & those buying shifter add ons. I know of at least one customer so far who has returned his item because of this (see link below), & this will probably be the first of many.

https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/thre...er-clutch-changes.386449/page-7#post-12692712

Because of a slightly unfair advantage that clutch shifting had over paddle shifting In GT Sport, PD nerfed the clutch, instead of fixing the underlying problems in their bad game design. Not only are you going to lose sales over this, but your clutch using customers are being disregarded & treated disrespectfully by PD. There are many people who have invested many hundreds in an officially licensed Thrustmaster T-GT plus extra pedal set & shifter, who can no longer enjoy using your products in GT Sport.

Please contact Polyphony Digital & have them correct this situation before you lose even more sales, & end up with many more furious customers - how many GT Sport players already own the extra pedal sets & shifters?



Yours Sincerely,

[VBR]."


If anyone else wants to bring this clutch nerf situation to the attention of Thrustmaster, & encourage them to put some pressure on PD, then please use this contact form:

https://support.thrustmaster.com/en/contact-en/



👍

Excellent post and effort on your part to make Thrustmaster aware that PD has made their shifter completely useless in GTS. I just bought my shifter last week along with the entire Thrustmaster setup and I really don't want to send it back yet. But as it stands now I have a $170 decoration hanging off my Playseat. I could have used that money to go towards something that works like the PSVR.

Hopefully Thrustmaster will have enough pull to make PD fix the game the right way so their equipment is useable. If not then Thrustmaster should pull their sponsorship from GT and the live FIA events. You know since it's now mandatory that you must use the T-GT during those events and not the DS4.

I am the same way, the only PS4 game I play is GTS. The day that I play something else is the day I make the switch to iRacing and leave Sony for good. That's the main reason I bought a Fanatec

You are definitely not alone on this.

 

[VBR]

Got the following reply from Thrustmaster this morning:


"Dear [VBR],


We thank you for reaching us and taking your time to share your feedback with us.

We like to inform you that we have forwarded this email to the appropriate department to look into this. *

If you have any other inquiries do not hesitate contacting us back by simply replying to this email.

To ensure the most efficient follow-up of your query, please answer directly to this email (do not open a new ticket).

Kind regards,
Your Thrustmaster Customer Support Agent, Octavian."


If enough people use the contact (https://support.thrustmaster.com/en/contact-en/form), maybe there's a chance Thrustmaster will ask/demand that PD fixes things.


💡



EDIT: The message subject was, "FAO: The Licensing Department" *

 

[Petroperu]

I just had another go today before heading to work.
Grabbed the second gen Supra and took it around a race on Career mode.
Didn't miss a shift, but this time I tried doing it very delicate, like full clutch, and then shift.

 

[StealthVel]

I'd really love to see the GT series taken away from Kaz & given to a game designer who actually has some understanding of what the players want & need.

Really?

 

[VBR]

Really?

Yep!

 

[ARTAsean]

Really?

As great as GT Sport is, and as great as PD are, it’s undeniable that they have virtually zero relationship, (or even a line of communication) with the player base.

A good example of what @VBR is referring to is The Division. The Dev team of The Division would actually play their game on livestream, and they would interact directly with viewers and players; publicly addressing known bugs, glitches, and what we could expect from future updates.

Obviously, this is a lot to expect from anything other than an Indie studio. But clearly there is a happy medium here, and that happy medium involves at least some community engagement.

Take the ABS Exploit for example — this was a borderline game breaking, balance issue that made a mockery of Sport Mode parity. In all the months we had to endure that exploit, when did PD ever, at the very least, say they were aware of it? And now with broken H-Shifters... here we go again. Waiting, in the dark, fingers crossed, without so much as a word from PD.

Look, we are all GT fanboys here, but that doesn’t mean we can’t assert that there are some things PD can improve on. While what @VBR said was a bit hyperbolic (GT without Kazs’ vision ceases to be GT, in my opinion,) he is right that loyal fans deserve more.

 

[grannyshifter]

Logged in for the first time in a long time to show support for this thread.

It would have been better and easier for them to simply disable the clutch in sport mode. Not ideal, but shifts with the H shifter & clutch would be the same as any other input. And cars could still use their "manual transmission". Then, outside of sport mode, nothing would need to be changed.

That said, better clutch implementation and making the "automated" manual shifting much quicker would be the best solution.

 

[GT_Alex74]

I don't think GT needs Kaz to go away. He's still bringing a lot of things other games never even thought about and needs to keep giving the game a general direction. What I think they would need is a couple people from Sony supervising community management and priorities, and hitting a fist on the table when they see Polyphony are working on stuff nobody asked for instead of implementing long awaited features or fixing bugs.

 

[schnick]

I voted dislike, not because of the "nerfing" but because it's a step in the wrong direction for immersion and realism. The topic of H shifter advantage seems to only pop up when there's a N300 race in FIA or a daily or some one-make <N300 with slow upshifts. As much as I am totally against "pay to win" I would like to see good H shifter + clutch technique be rewarded. When I upgraded from a DFGT to a G27 midway through playing GT6 I thought I could learn how to heel and toe. I gave up almost immediately as the binary clutch was totally unforgiving. When Project CARS came around I had a go at heel toe shifting and it was glorious. Probably not the most realistic compared to other PC sims but at least it gave me a chance to learn the timing and technique and be confident if I ever needed to do it in more realistic sims or IRL. I'm almost exclusively FIA so most of the races are with race cars with sequential gearboxes so it doesn't really matter there, but I can see they have alienated the majority of the player base.

Just throwing it out there even if it is highly unlikely, maybe they are planning a N100 race in FIA later this year (or one make where H would have distinct advantage) and don't want people to complain loudly about H shifter disparity.

Also, I find it next to impossible to do the acceleration license tests without the clutch assisted upshifts, however now that I've just read about the double up then down trick I might have to give it a go.

 

[grannyshifter]

I don't think GT needs Kaz to go away. He's still bringing a lot of things other games never even thought about and needs to keep giving the game a general direction. What I think they would need is a couple people from Sony supervising community management and priorities, and hitting a fist on the table when they see Polyphony are working on stuff nobody asked for instead of implementing long awaited features or fixing bugs.

I agree, Kaz is brilliant in many ways, however as you noted, management may not be one of them. It seems like he is focused purely on the big picture, and has little to no oversight of the more minute aspects of the game.

Take for example, an article that was posted recently on this site, which included an interview with Kaz. When asked why the daily races and in particular race A were so repetitive, he basically replied like he had no idea that was going on! He said he would forward the feedback to his "team". I'm guessing these teams that control GT Sport are made up entirely of software engineers (coders) and they probably don't give a 🤬 about cars.

 

[dempixels]

Well, this just took about all the fun I had out of GT, I mean shifting wasn't the best anyway. But now it just gotten to the point where it is practically unusable for me! I wish there was a voting option "this is the most horrible feature ever"

Polyphony plz fix physics, FFB and clutch

 

[L_Kesan]

I took 288GTO around Dragon trail for Sake of time comparison. when i concentrated on shifting I was doing fine but still slower than previously set time (with hshifter clutch combo) the amount of mishifts was enormous on my g29. now I'm nowhere near great driver but consistency is one thing I can manage (consistently bad - but consistent never the less ) jokes aside i couldn't get closer than 3seconds behind my old time which i set about a month ago.

All due to misshifts then concentration on doing clutch properly thus missing apexes and generaly not being consistent (like the shifting)
Bliping don't seem to be helping in matching the gears anymore. when i went full hulk on my pedal kicking them like you would in fast and furious movie then it all seemed to work a bit better but don't think thats healthy in any shape or form.
Might do a comparison video with some other game at some point to have it side by side.

I honestly don't know why can't it just be delayed rather than go straight to neutral. then you can just get the right gear in, no matter what I dare GT to force use of Shifters and clutch on the events to get some live feedback. Who thought such change will work tho? are they testing waters for something worse to come ?

 

[Petroperu]

It's Project Cars that good guys?
I am thinking about jumping to it or Assetto Corsa.
I still like GT Sport but the lack of H-patter shifter support shafted my interest in spending time with it.

 

[eltorrente]

I've been playing a bunch of Assetto Corsa lately because I can't own a shifter like this and be forced to granny shift:

 

[Scaff]

It's Project Cars that good guys?
I am thinking about jumping to it or Assetto Corsa.
I still like GT Sport but the lack of H-patter shifter support shafted my interest in spending time with it.

Either of them (or both given they can be picked up at good prices) are great additions and complements to GTS.

AC has the slight edge on physics and FFB, but is a time attack sim with a half-hearted career added in, while PC2 is basically a massive sandbox for the driving and racing fan, with a massive amount of tracks, reasonable single player, good car list and dynamic time and weather.

What both of them also have is a track surface that is also dynamic, and changes and evolves as it rubbers in (and as the weather changes as well in PC2).

Neither of them look as good as GTS, but neither are crayon drawings either, honestly sim racing and driving fans who ignore options beyond GTS are missing out on some great stuff.

Oh and PC2 supports button boxes and both support UDP apps.

 

[joost_wentink]

Got the following reply from Thrustmaster this morning:


"Dear [VBR],


We thank you for reaching us and taking your time to share your feedback with us.

We like to inform you that we have forwarded this email to the appropriate department to look into this. *

If you have any other inquiries do not hesitate contacting us back by simply replying to this email.

To ensure the most efficient follow-up of your query, please answer directly to this email (do not open a new ticket).

Kind regards,
Your Thrustmaster Customer Support Agent, Octavian."


If enough people use the contact (https://support.thrustmaster.com/en/contact-en/form), maybe there's a chance Thrustmaster will ask/demand that PD fixes things.


💡



EDIT: The message subject was, "FAO: The Licensing Department" *

Excellent! Very nicely done mate thank you very much for the effort!
I sure hope this is going to end good for all of us players!

 

[Silver Arrows]

A good example of what @VBR is referring to is The Division. The Dev team of The Division would actually play their game on livestream, and they would interact directly with viewers and players; publicly addressing known bugs, glitches, and what we could expect from future updates.

To add onto this, it also helps that for the most part, Ubisoft has been able to shift their games and their development studios to fit such a mold. The Division 2 is the most recent example, but see Rainbow Six Siege, Ghost Recon Wildlands, etc for other examples.

However...

Obviously, this is a lot to expect from anything other than an Indie studio. But clearly there is a happy medium here, and that happy medium involves at least some community engagement.

This isn't a lot to expect. If big developers are pushing their games to be services, as many others have been wanting to do, you would expect that at minimum, they have a monthly stream to get across what the big changes are in the pipe, and be active on social media, Reddit, and forums such as this to show players that their suggestions and complaints are being heard.

Whether that be due to the fact that we're dealing with a Japanese company, and a sort of gulf with regards to language barriers, or because PD doesn't feel the need to voice what they are doing to fix the game other then with regards to service and content updates (I believe it's a bit of column A and B) it is affecting their ability to make people confident, especially considering this game, unlike any other racing title on the market barring iRacing, is so dependent on eSports, and the meta of the game. If these problems persist, then it doesn't give much hope to people to continue playing, and PD need to do a better job of addressing these complaints.

 

[Petroperu]

Either of them (or both given they can be picked up at good prices) are great additions and complements to GTS.

AC has the slight edge on physics and FFB, but is a time attack sim with a half-hearted career added in, while PC2 is basically a massive sandbox for the driving and racing fan, with a massive amount of tracks, reasonable single player, good car list and dynamic time and weather.

What both of them also have is a track surface that is also dynamic, and changes and evolves as it rubbers in (and as the weather changes as well in PC2).

Neither of them look as good as GTS, but neither are crayon drawings either, honestly sim racing and driving fans who ignore options beyond GTS are missing out on some great stuff.

Oh and PC2 supports button boxes and both support UDP apps.

I just ordered PC2 from Amazon.
I'll get it this friday.
Can't wait to feel the road again, after feeling floating around with GTS.

 

[joost_wentink]

I just ordered PC2 from Amazon.
I'll get it this friday.
Can't wait to feel the road again, after feeling floating around with GTS.

I got that game since it came out and it sure is fun. What I personally did not like was the tunability of the FFB. I allways had the feeling it needed a bit of tuning so I'm interested how you are going to experience that.
Have fun!

 

[Petroperu]

I got that game since it came out and it sure is fun. What I personally did not like was the tunability of the FFB. I allways had the feeling it needed a bit of tuning so I'm interested how you are going to experience that.
Have fun!

Well, the last time I had a wheel was the Logitech DFP and I tried it with GT4 (bought it for it when it came out in 2004) and the FFB was amazing back then.
I could feel EVERYTHING from the different road surfaces, to going over rumble strips and even that annoying back of going fast and the wheel trying to go side to side.
So I was extremely disappointed when I got my playseat, and put the Logitech G29 just to try GTS and I couldn't feel a thing at all.

 

[joost_wentink]

Well, the last time I had a wheel was the Logitech DFP and I tried it with GT4 (bought it for it when it came out in 2004) and the FFB was amazing back then.
I could feel EVERYTHING from the different road surfaces, to going over rumble strips and even that annoying back of going fast and the wheel trying to go side to side.
So I was extremely disappointed when I got my playseat, and put the Logitech G29 just to try GTS and I couldn't feel a thing at all.

I can imagine. Makes me wonder if that G29 is really suitable for GT sport or not. Because I must say GT sport does a great job for me with FFB when using a t300rs gt. Maybe the reason why I keep the need to tune the FFB with PC2 IS because of my wheel?

 

[Petroperu]

I can imagine. Makes me wonder if that G29 is really suitable for GT sport or not. Because I must say GT sport does a great job for me with FFB when using a t300rs gt. Maybe the reason why I keep the need to tune the FFB with PC2 IS because of my wheel?

But I've read opinions from people saying the G29's FFB works fine with PC2.

 

[joost_wentink]

But I've read opinions from people saying the G29's FFB works fine with PC2.

That is my point mate I have the feeling the t300rs gt is great for gt, but not so for other racing games. And with the g29 it seems the other way around.
So you are right, the g29 should be great with PC2

 

[Petroperu]

That is my point mate I have the feeling the t300rs gt is great for gt, but not so for other racing games. And with the g29 it seems the other way around.
So you are right, the g29 should be great with PC2

Very strange.
I was aware that Polyphony gimped the Logitech G29 in favor of the T300rs with GT Sport just because they had a partnership but the other thing going around with other games?

 

[joost_wentink]

Very strange.
I was aware that Polyphony gimped the Logitech G29 in favor of the T300rs with GT Sport just because they had a partnership but the other thing going around with other games?

Be aware that I shared just my personal experience. All the best of fun to you with PC2

 

[Scaff]

I got that game since it came out and it sure is fun. What I personally did not like was the tunability of the FFB. I allways had the feeling it needed a bit of tuning so I'm interested how you are going to experience that.
Have fun!

I've got a T300 and apart from tweaking the wheel weight between a few cars, am happy with the FFB how i have it set-up.

That's not to say that I haven't done a lot of playing around, but I always end up coming back to pretty much the same set-up

Raw / Gain 80 / Volume 30 / Tone 25 / FX 20 (Main Spring doesn't affect driving)

Well, the last time I had a wheel was the Logitech DFP and I tried it with GT4 (bought it for it when it came out in 2004) and the FFB was amazing back then.
I could feel EVERYTHING from the different road surfaces, to going over rumble strips and even that annoying back of going fast and the wheel trying to go side to side.
So I was extremely disappointed when I got my playseat, and put the Logitech G29 just to try GTS and I couldn't feel a thing at all.

The bit when it went side to side back in GT4 is thankfully a thing of the past.

However you will find PC2 gives you a lot of options, so head over to the PC2 sub-forum and ask away, plenty of people who will help out.
Few very quick pointers, road cars are harder to drive quickly on a track than race cars, hyper cars are on road tyres they will not stop or corner as quickly as race cars - so drive them in that manner, tyre temp is really important - if your not up to temp on race tyres you will not have anything like the grip you expect.

Oh and the first combo it sticks you in is a McLaren 720s at Long Beech, which will spin its rears in 4th, and you start with cold tyres. Brake from before the 500 yard boards and don't try turning with even close to full brakes applied. It's much more demanding than GTS, but also more rewarding in that regard as well.

Have fun :-)

BTW this is a year after launch video that may be of interest.

 

[ErikD]

Ahh! Update 1.37 just reverted manual w/clutch back to how it was, and now prohibits it in Sport Mode races... Someone recommended that in this thread, and that's exactly what they did... Maybe they do read these posts?!? Still sucks, but I can deal with that until (hopefully) they speed up the paddle shifts in manual trans setting... Good luck hoping for a better fix LOL. At least u can play in a lobby league, or whatever, with how it was.