Keef
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So are you a libertarian or a fascist? They're both right-wing.
Your stance
- Thread starter Liquid
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- BrutherSuperior
Fascism is part of the same circle as statism (communism, socialism, et al). They share the same basic premise that centralized control of production, of the economy, and of the people works best. That's always been and always will be a disaster.
A libertarian is actually...I'm not sure. Some people claim that they're a libertarian b/c they're 'in the middle', or they want no government at all, or they wish to have an isolationist economy & defense policy. Some just want government off their backs. So I really don't know what a libertarian is.
My ideology is that people know what's best for themselves. That includes what kind of toilet they'd like to use, what kind of light bulbs they want in their house, what they want to eat for dinner, how much fuel their car uses, and how they'd like to make their living.
I don't know if it's like this in all states, but my hairdresser needs a license to operate. That absolutely baffles me. Does that guarantee a good haircut? Of course not...just seems like it's another revenue stream for the state. Even further, I have trees/bushes in my back yard (if you can even call it that) and some roots caused some havoc in my sewage system.
I needed a permit to get it fix.
Think. About. That.
I needed to ask permission and pay a fee to my locality in order to be able to safely flush a turd. What the ****...
To make a living, I need a zoning permit, a license (including stupid class), and a surety bond while disclosing every penny I had and where it came from. I had to ask permission from the state to earn money, pay thousands for a 'get out of jail free' card just in case I do something illegal, and get permission from the county to use a god-damned warehouse. Not quick, not cheap, and not easy; this was a lesson in ridiculousness.
People should be free to do business and be free from the terror of fees, permits, licenses, regulations, and the tax man.
...
I ask you and anyone reading this a single question;
Can anyone name one legal product, service, or activity that is neither taxed or regulated?
USA; Left, Right, Center: http://www.wimp.com/thegovernment/
- 353
- irishfan311
Religion?
- 678
- BrutherSuperior
- 353
- irishfan311
I'm aware. I'm a CPA.
I posted in haste and then thought about it afterwards. Your rhetorical question still stands. 👍
Keef
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Libertarianism is the support of personal and economic freedom, and government operating in its proper role of protecting the rights of the people. If a person were "in the middle" they'd be a centrist, which means they probably lack core principles upon which to base their decisions - even bad principles. If they didn't want any government at all they would be anarchists, not libertarians. Also, libertarians do not strive for an isolationist foreign policy; they promote non-interventionism. You can see from my links that while isolationism does include non-interventionism, it goes a step beyond to control international dealings very strictly, possibly to the extreme of cutting them off completely.
From your complaints above I would assume you're more libertarian than anything - you want the government off your back. But a lot of people want the government off their back, and those same people's decisions vary greatly from one situation to the next because they lack libertarian principles.
Which, as most libertarians on this site would argue, are the only truly logical principles there are.
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- 678
- BrutherSuperior
- 40
I would consider myself a liberal, progressive or even socialist (for healthcare and education anyway).
I believe in capitalism, but I think we also need government regulation to prevent private companies from doing dangerous things, like using lead paint on kids toys, or dumping toxic waste etc.
I am in favour of legalising drugs, taking the power and money away from organized crime.
I am also in favour of military intervention for places like Iraq or North Korea, which is probably unusual for a liberal.
I believe in capitalism, but I think we also need government regulation to prevent private companies from doing dangerous things, like using lead paint on kids toys, or dumping toxic waste etc.
I am in favour of legalising drugs, taking the power and money away from organized crime.
I am also in favour of military intervention for places like Iraq or North Korea, which is probably unusual for a liberal.
Keef
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It's a variation of a Nolan Chart. I added a link in the picture for those who want to read about it.
- 678
- BrutherSuperior
Why would removing people's freedom to choose their healthcare insurance/doctors/hospitals and their choice where to send their children to school be better?
I've never understood the reasoning behind that. Given a choice; you'd want to attend the best school and visit the best hospital for the lowest price right? Government control removes those options, and while everyone is supposedly given 'equal' care and education, that does not guarantee good care or education.
- 40
You can still choose to have private health insurance or pay for private schooling if you want it. I just think we should provide a minimum standard for everyone.
Especially with education, since it's the main factor for social mobility.
- 678
- BrutherSuperior
There is a minimum standard for everyone. It sucks.
If you go to the ER and need care, you'll get it regardless of your ability to pay. The caveat is that all the other patients will have to bear the burden of your bill or the state taxpayers. Likewise, if you have insurance and they do not pay...there are other avenues you can take to make them pay their debt.
When the government refuses insurance claims, and they do ALL THE TIME, you're screwed. No means no. With Obamacare; you're guaranteed coverage...not care. You can still have your claims denied despite being insured. I had this exact same scenario happen to me in college. State-run institution and state-run insurance, socialized medicine, and the bastards denied my claim for having some tests done on my gall bladder. That wasn't cheap and there wasn't a damn thing I could have done about it. No means no.
Likewise, public education has a minimum standard. The problem is a disconnect between performance and pay. The worse a school does, the more money they and the teachers demand. That's backwards. You'll also hear about classroom size, guess what, classes are huge in college. A school in Detroit recently purchased 40,000 laptops for their staff and students. They have new books every year. Yet, 50% drop-out rate.
Money isn't the problem. Standardization isn't the problem. It's the institutional failure to hold schools and teachers accountable. The best way to do that is with the money strings. In a private school, a parent can remove their child and remove that revenue stream of tuition if the school is bad. You can't do that in public schools. Once again, the gov't says "no". The only way to have your children enroll in another school is to buy a new permanent residence in a different district. Want to enroll your child in a new private school? Fill out a form and sign a check. Easy as that.
In my view, restricting choice and competition for the best schools/healthcare is immoral. That's exactly what socialism does.
If I'm wrong, please feel free to correct me.
- 743
- Los Angeles area, CA
I identify as Communist. Not Orthodox Marxist, mind you; I don't take as gospel truth every word the man ever wrote. But, he had some good ideas.
I'm personally conservative, but socially liberal. I'm not in to... ahem, "recreational pharmaceuticals", but if you are, have at it. I don't care what you choose to ingest or who you choose to f?!k, as long as you're not doing any tangible, quantifiable harm to anyone else.
I believe in the death penalty. I believe that there are some monsters that are beyond reform. That said: I think incarceration in the U.S. is a farce. I feel that we don't do nearly enough to rehabilitate people that could otherwise be turned into productive members of society. I feel that, for the most part, the way we run prisons, it's a revolving door. Surely, there's SOMEthing we could be doing better, to reduce the rate of recidivism.
I believe the citizenry should be able to own guns, and should be able to defend life, family, and property, without having to wait for police to respond. That said: there's gotta be a better way to screen nutjobs from getting their hands on guns, so incidents like the one with Congress woman Giffords and unfortunate innocent bystanders don't have to happen.
I'm pro-choice, and I believe a woman should ABSOLUTELY have say as to what happens to her own body.
I hope that one day, we, as a global community, can truly call ourselves egalitarian. I see differences amongst us as something to be embraced and learned from, rather than something that divides us.
I'm personally conservative, but socially liberal. I'm not in to... ahem, "recreational pharmaceuticals", but if you are, have at it. I don't care what you choose to ingest or who you choose to f?!k, as long as you're not doing any tangible, quantifiable harm to anyone else.
I believe in the death penalty. I believe that there are some monsters that are beyond reform. That said: I think incarceration in the U.S. is a farce. I feel that we don't do nearly enough to rehabilitate people that could otherwise be turned into productive members of society. I feel that, for the most part, the way we run prisons, it's a revolving door. Surely, there's SOMEthing we could be doing better, to reduce the rate of recidivism.
I believe the citizenry should be able to own guns, and should be able to defend life, family, and property, without having to wait for police to respond. That said: there's gotta be a better way to screen nutjobs from getting their hands on guns, so incidents like the one with Congress woman Giffords and unfortunate innocent bystanders don't have to happen.
I'm pro-choice, and I believe a woman should ABSOLUTELY have say as to what happens to her own body.
I hope that one day, we, as a global community, can truly call ourselves egalitarian. I see differences amongst us as something to be embraced and learned from, rather than something that divides us.
- 904
- orlando,FL,USA
Its really bothers me when people say they are fiscally conservative and socially liberal and vice-versa. Truth is there is no such as being a fiscally conservative and social liberal because that amounts to living on the fence and being a statist.
Blank_Redge
If you clearly believe that a women should have absolute authority over their bodies, then you should have no problem in agreeing with anti-abortionist that Roe. V Wade needs to be overturned, especially when the ruling basically gave the government the right to have some kind of authority over a woman's body.
- 743
- Los Angeles area, CA
Hm. I think you misunderstand me.
I didn't say I was fiscally conservative. I mean that while I don't enjoy tripping b@lls on E, if that's your thing, have at it.
This is just silly.
Roe v. Wade sets a precedent that allows women to have a legal voice as to what happens with their body. I'm genuinely perplexed as to how you can spin it the way you do.
- 904
- orlando,FL,USA
MonsterMunch
foreign military interventionism is nothing unsual for a liberal, this when american history is choke-full of military interventionism by liberals. The same can be said about progressives...they might think as themselves being anti-war, but truth they are very pro-war under the right conditions. See Darfur.
- 904
- orlando,FL,USA
YSSMAN
If you are for gay rights, then I assume you must be for the government and activist groups like GLAAD supressing free speech and freedom of association, right? I mean one right cannot be achieved unless you supress the others as noted not by both Mises and Rothbard..
- 904
- orlando,FL,USA
Blank_RedgeThis is just silly.
Roe v. Wade sets a precedent that allows women to have a legal voice as to what happens with their body. I'm genuinely perplexed as to how you can spin it the way you do.
Its not not silly and even Ron Paul have alluded to this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EL1BOWC3No0
And for the record, Paul clearly understands Roe and why it was a misguided ruling
- 743
- Los Angeles area, CA
Bringing up Ron Paul to support your argument would not be convincing to someone like me.
http://www.ontheissues.org/tx/ron_paul.htm
http://www.ontheissues.org/tx/Ron_Paul_Abortion.htm
http://thesteadyconservative.com/wordpress/2010/02/09/the-ron-paul-voting-record/
He comes to conclusions that I FLATLY disagree with; assigning rights to fertilized ovum, and assigning them rights before they're even viable to survive outside of a woman's uterus.
- 1,138
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- slayer241991
- xXSurturRising
I am a pro-life, pro gun, Christian middle-class American. I get all of my news from Fox. I belive that marriage is between an man and a woman and that homosexuality is a choice. I also believe in a capitalist, free market economy. People should do thier best to work for their money, rather than expect a hand-out from the government. I do not support socialized medicine, nor do I support the federal governement controlling anything period. I believe that income tax should be replaced with a national sales tax because it is the most fair way to tax people. I also support capital punsihment, for both murderers and sex offenders. The bottom line is that the federal government needs to keep their grubby little paws off of stuff and let the local and state governments run the show. I also believe there should be a 2 4-year term limit on senators and representatives, just like the president.
- 904
- orlando,FL,USA
I wasn't trying to convince you, but demonstrating to you the real libertarian position on abortion, and that position is the fact that roe v. wade should be overturn because it violates both individual and state's rights.
- 743
- Los Angeles area, CA
You have yet to demonstrate how Roe v. Wade is detrimental to the pro-choice movement, if that is, in fact, the assertion you're trying to make.
Honestly, I have no idea what you're driving at.
A woman should be able to terminate an unwanted pregnancy, for any number of reasons. She should not be made to bring the pregnancy to term, because someone else has decided that life begins at conception, and that small, undeveloped mass of cells now has civil rights.
Keef
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Joey D
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My stance? I hate politicians and I hate politics. Over the past couple weeks I've had a lot of time to lay around and think about things and I've come to that conclusion. I think all political parties are full of jokers who are only out to please whatever lobby writes them the biggest cheque. I fairly confident that until a candidate comes along that I feel knows what they are doing, I'm going to give up voting. Why elect someone you don't feel is the right person for the job?
For my political leanings? Per my answers on the political compass thing I fall in the leftist/libertarian realm. I'm actually almost identical with Nelson Mandela and I think I'm OK with that based on what I know about the man. I'm sure there is dirt on him and a list of misdeeds a mile long but what figure in politics doesn't? For someone in American politics I fall near Dennis Kucinich, whom I don't know much about.
Per the Nolan Chart I'm a centrist with a leaning towards liberal libertarianism.
When it comes to the economy, I have no idea what's right and what's wrong. I think the ideas have been so blurred and so many useless regulations have been added and removed it has stifled growth. I think we do need some regulations regarding trade, environmental protection and worker's rights, along with a few others because I don't think companies can be trusted to do the right thing and the workers take it as the status quo.
For my political leanings? Per my answers on the political compass thing I fall in the leftist/libertarian realm. I'm actually almost identical with Nelson Mandela and I think I'm OK with that based on what I know about the man. I'm sure there is dirt on him and a list of misdeeds a mile long but what figure in politics doesn't? For someone in American politics I fall near Dennis Kucinich, whom I don't know much about.
Per the Nolan Chart I'm a centrist with a leaning towards liberal libertarianism.
When it comes to the economy, I have no idea what's right and what's wrong. I think the ideas have been so blurred and so many useless regulations have been added and removed it has stifled growth. I think we do need some regulations regarding trade, environmental protection and worker's rights, along with a few others because I don't think companies can be trusted to do the right thing and the workers take it as the status quo.
- 3,131
- GTP_GTPrologue5
- None
Communist. I just fully agree with a lot of what goes on with Socialism. I have no idea why. Maybe I should go do some reading...
- 743
- Los Angeles area, CA
You most certainly should go do some reading. IMO, it's generally ill advised to identify with something if you're not versed on what it is you're identifying with.
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