Your thoughts about "standard" vs. "premium"

[Shinu]

Well, in a way I'm not happy. There should have been an GTHD with the release of ps3 (GT4 remake in HD with standard cars) and later on a GT5 that is shaping up now (standard + premium + weather and so on).

That way i would have gotten my first GT "fix" early.

The only people that are suffering the most - GT fanboys that are new to the series. (others had there fun with psx/ps2 + GT1-4)

You all can complain all you want, but to me GT5 is going to be awsome, and that's because I cant compare it to other GT's.

Oh, and forza (was planing to buy x360 to test it out) - I'm not gonna buy a new wheel just for it (stupid microsoft), and my experience tells me its not really a sim like game (more like GT- early NFS) in terms of style and some gameplay elements, and I don't like it. All my friends all ready ditched it, and they liked it (although some still play GT4, others spent much time on it when it was new)


Short - quit the complaining and enjoy the ride. I'm shore I will!

 

[Devedander]

Actually, I took issue with his definition of GT fanboy. GT dissidents and dissent itself play a major role in shaping the voice of dissatisfaction and relaying it to PD/Sony, but pissing on other folks via a personally narrow definition of fanboy (one that would include practically everyone at GTP) just isn't a fruitful venture and doesn't lend credence to any argument.

I would disagree... we seem to have quite a few level minds who sort of hang around the midground, plenty of people who are dissapointed but the fanboys don't run nearly as broad as I think you imagine. There are quite a few, but the ones who are irrationally and illogically happy and feel the need to be strongly verbal in their ignorant bliss aren't terribly many... I would think probably 25% at most.

And I am a guy who gets a lot of fanboyism thrown my way...

I tend to be a bit more critical of the side of the dialogue with whom I share sympathies. Let the blissful ones shoot themselves in the foot with their obvious irrationality, but don't allow their stink to to penetrate your argument.

While I agree to a point, I also have no problem callinga spade a spade. Especially if the issue is that the fanboys come in and make it hard to have a real rational discussion/debate by throwing in all kinds of dissinformation and disrupting the conversations. It's hard enough to converse with people on here when you don't know what they know and how closely they have been following the GT5 process let alone have people tossing fud in there to confuse the situation more.

One person misleading a handful of people who don't really know can spread to a lot of frustrating arguments down the road when that FUD gets taken as elgit and regurgitated.

 

[TouringDevotee]

I would disagree... we seem to have quite a few level minds who sort of hang around the midground, plenty of people who are dissapointed but the fanboys don't run nearly as broad as I think you imagine. There are quite a few, but the ones who are irrationally and illogically happy and feel the need to be strongly verbal in their ignorant bliss aren't terribly many... I would think probably 25% at most.

And I am a guy who gets a lot of fanboyism thrown my way...

Misunderstanding. I don't believe that GTP is full of fanboys, just that his narrow definition (connect his arguments) of one fit most here (i.e. those would consider their to be a "massive massive cockpit disappointment" and still purchase the game or find it acceptable). If anything, fanboys come and go here, but don't seem to last very long. Their arguments follow similar paths, but the names change.

While I agree to a point, I also have no problem callinga spade a spade. Especially if the issue is that the fanboys come in and make it hard to have a real rational discussion/debate by throwing in all kinds of dissinformation and disrupting the conversations. It's hard enough to converse with people on here when you don't know what they know and how closely they have been following the GT5 process let alone have people tossing fud in there to confuse the situation more.

One person misleading a handful of people who don't really know can spread to a lot of frustrating arguments down the road when that FUD gets taken as elgit and regurgitated.

I agree with the misleading via misinformation, and wow do we see enough of that in real world politics...a lie repeated enough times...

I just don't think that yelling a lot has the hoped for, rebuttal effect, though it certainly gets attention and is useful for stimulating a debate when everyone acts as though one does not exist.

 

[okami11408]

Is anybody thinking that everything we see in GTPSP intro comes from GT5.

 

[pay2021]

Is anybody thinking that everything we see in GTPSP intro comes from GT5.

I think is a "render" movie (like all intros) with PD assets (read GT5 models).

 

[analog]

Give me $80 million dollars, 5 iterations of the same game experience to build off of, extensive experience in the game building world, support from a major corporate entitye (Sony) for having a flagship product for one of their biggest lines and partnerships/postive relations with a lot of car companies and half a decade and I wouldn't be too surprised if I pull it off.

Oh and if I introduce said camera view touting it as being an awesome new feature (despite the fact that games have had cockpit view for years) the competition pretty much consistently has that view and them my product suddenly only has that view in 20% of the cars... well yeah I will be pretty embarrassed. And I wouldn't be caught dead making excuses like "it wasn't there before and you liked the game then!" because I would think my customers would want new features in a new game, not excuses about how the new game doesn't have the same features the old games didn't... that on top of the fact my last game did have that feature and pushed it's value pretty heavily.

And I certainly wouldn't say I felt I was 90% of where I wanted to be...

Seriously the request to "do it better or shutup!" is just ridiculous... I don't have to be a hall of famer football player to spot a QB throwing across his body off his back foot, I don't have to be an emmy award winning movie producer to say a movie was boring or sucked and I don't have to be the best video game producer out there to say a video game has issues. Or do you think all those guys who review games for a living could make perfect 10 games and that's why they are allowed to say some games are poor?

Nice response to a rather blatantly obvious flawed statement.👍

 

[Mr Frappy]

= One more game to buy and appreciate.

Right, and one more pointless single sentence, single line response from you to go along with it. Honestly, why do you bother?

So he isn't going to buy the game. Let him cry and spit his dummy out. All you do by responding like that is encourage him.

 

[Griffith500]

I'm not going to buy the game new because of this massive massive cockpit disappointment, and because I feel mislead by the hype machine. I'll pick up the game second hand somewhere, but I won't be there on release day.

I'm frustrated about this, and the fanboys (if you're insulted by my using this word, then maybe you might be one) for thinking this is acceptable for a top of the line 5 years in development would-be masterpiece, and I don't want to directly support GT/Sony/Polyphony for letting a lot of its fans down so much.

Try that with some other contentious, emotionally charged, potentially insulting words and see where that gets you

Anyway, you're speaking hypothetically about a game that hasn't been fully exposed yet. You don't know how many fans are going to be let down, or how many wouldn't have been let down even if the game had 1000 cockpit views. There's more to it than that.

The "hype-machine" is a universal phenomenon in the games industry, get over it.

 

[Dravonic]

The "hype-machine" is a universal phenomenon in the games industry, get over it.

Honestly, in this case, PD is guilty of fueling it.

 

[BlacqueJacques]

Crazy !

Whatever the faults may be ; we all will buy the game anyways; and then discover the faults; talk about them on GTPlanet; and then will be fixed by the time GT6 arrives

 

[stig's helmet]

at the end of the day i'm getting the game. The way i see it is if their is no 1000 cockpit views then i'll be dissapointed but prepared for it, if there is miraculously more cockpit views than i expected then it's a bonus.

 

[analog]

Anyway, you're speaking hypothetically about a game that hasn't been fully exposed yet. You don't know how many fans are going to be let down, or how many wouldn't have been let down even if the game had 1000 cockpit views. There's more to it than that.

Well the lack of cockpits is not hypothetically anymore and doesn't require a huge amount of imagination to those who were expecting this relevant feature ( as it is relevant when you use it ) to regard it as a huge let down and I can see people therefore having a different expectation of the game as a whole ( I do ).
Regardless of the game proving to be huge fun and offering plenty of content to keep me busy for a while, the fact 800 cars are without cockpit view won't go away when I drive those Standard cars ( in fact I already feel my annoyance towards this issue growing even bigger when faced with it in the final game ).
The fact they try to hide them and only very recently admitted they won't feature cockpit view doesn't make the "guilt-question" of being hyped up or having huge expectations regarding this aspect lie soly with those who are disappointed in my opinion.
I still look forward to the game, it simply isn't the game I thought I was looking forward to a couple of months ago purely for this cockpit issue.

 

[kekke2000]

No one can say the game will not be worth the money though. I mean it costs as much as any other release.

 

[Devedander]

Crazy !

Whatever the faults may be ; we all will buy the game anyways; and then discover the faults; talk about them on GTPlanet; and then will be fixed by the time GT6 arrives

That's what they said about GT5 (ie it would be awesome and perfect) and probably about GT4 and maybe even 3.

I think it makes less sense to talk about the problems after the game is released (even though now arguably there is not much that can be done about it) than it does before.

I think almost anyone who is a regular contributor to GTP will be guying the game one way or another... I am planning on waiting for a sale or early used copy discount, but I defintely still plan on getting it. Just not with the same enthusiasm I did when the idea of GT5 basically sold me a PS3.

at the end of the day i'm getting the game. The way i see it is if their is no 1000 cockpit views then i'll be dissapointed but prepared for it, if there is miraculously more cockpit views than i expected then it's a bonus.

The problem (and beauty) with this logic is you can apply it to pretty much any flaws.

No one can say the game will not be worth the money though. I mean it costs as much as any other release.

I dunno... sometimes a lot doesn't sit as well with me as a very refined little bit. But that's still to be seen ultimately.

 

[stig's helmet]

The problem (and beauty) with this logic is you can apply it to pretty much any flaws.

i suppose, i use that logic so i'm not too dissapointed. Before we found out about 'standard cars' i was expecting every car to have driver's eye so now i think it's just better to get on with playing it.

 

[BlacqueJacques]

i suppose, i use that logic so i'm not too dissapointed. Before we found out about 'standard cars' i was expecting every car to have driver's eye so now i think it's just better to get on with playing it.

Yes, just like in Prologue , I am not interested in driving the car that does not have cockpit view; or driving a car I am not interested in driving (whether or not it has cockpit view).

Patiently waiting to enjoy the game, 'warts' and all

 

[stig's helmet]

I am not interested in driving the car that does not have cockpit view

same here really, unless it's for a challenge or licenses. In which case i'll be very interested

 

[CoolColJ]

So much EMO in this thread

 

[supersquirrel]

LOL! coolcolj

 

[stig's helmet]

emo,........oooook.

 

[MetalheadA7X]

I honestly don't care about this debate. As long as the handling physics and the performance modifications are the same for every model then I won't be too bothered. If the cars I want to drive are standard so be it, if they are premium, even better.

I do like a game with good graphics, but if the gameplay outweighs this factor, I won't be too annoyed.

 

[Luminis]

I do like a game with good graphics, but if the gameplay outweighs this factor, I won't be too annoyed.

This bears the question whether you regard a cockpit view to be a gameplay asset or a graphical asset.

That might be the difference as to whether it bothers someone a lot or not.
To me, it's a gameplay asset. Without a cockpit, the standard cars won't play the same as the premiums. And they won't look as good, of course.

To someone else, it might be just a graphical asset and to such a person, the standard cars will just look different from the premiums.

 

[supersquirrel]

I DONT CARE cause i use bumpercam

 

[Griffith500]

Well the lack of cockpits is not hypothetically anymore and doesn't require a huge amount of imagination to those who were expecting this relevant feature ( as it is relevant when you use it ) to regard it as a huge let down and I can see people therefore having a different expectation of the game as a whole ( I do ).
Regardless of the game proving to be huge fun and offering plenty of content to keep me busy for a while, the fact 800 cars are without cockpit view won't go away when I drive those Standard cars ( in fact I already feel my annoyance towards this issue growing even bigger when faced with it in the final game ).
The fact they try to hide them and only very recently admitted they won't feature cockpit view doesn't make the "guilt-question" of being hyped up or having huge expectations regarding this aspect lie soly with those who are disappointed in my opinion.
I still look forward to the game, it simply isn't the game I thought I was looking forward to a couple of months ago purely for this cockpit issue.

I was mainly pointing out that, even if we got 1000 cars with cockpit view, people will still be disappointed with the game. It's just the way things go.
I'm not sure I can remember far back enough to discuss the "covering up" of the 1000 cars thing, then again I was heavily (probably silently) skeptical from the start anyway.

The lack of a livery editor is likely much more of an issue to some people than an inconsistent garage, and visa versa.

So it is hypothetical to state that "a lot of fans" will be disappointed by GT5's release, simply because of the lack of cockpits. Logically, it is true that "a lot" of people already are disappointed - but how many is that really, in relative terms, compared to those who would be disappointed by any number of other issues with the game when it releases? Let's face it, everyone will find something to complain about, especially me.

Put another way, the lack of cockpit views won't be the only disappointment to come from this Premium vs. Standard thing, let alone in the game as a whole. Additionally, I don't see how that is any different to any other game.

 

[MetalheadA7X]

This bears the question whether you regard a cockpit view to be a gameplay asset or a graphical asset.

That might be the difference as to whether it bothers someone a lot or not.
To me, it's a gameplay asset. Without a cockpit, the standard cars won't play the same as the premiums. And they won't look as good, of course.

To someone else, it might be just a graphical asset and to such a person, the standard cars will just look different from the premiums.

I do see where you are coming from, but I use a Pad so I only really use cockpit view when I am pratting about on time trial and most of the time use behind car view.

Of course I would love all the cars to have the epically detailed cockpits and interiors but I honestly would rather have the game ASAP and have them added in later.

 

[SuperCobraJet]

So much EMO in this thread

Yes it is, and IMO for good reason too.

I know of no other feature that has succeeded in establishing the "black cloud" over this release that standard/premium has.

The no cockpit view for standards while certainly not up to date or expectation is maybe, not too bad or can be lived with.

But then you also have 800 that will be that way. Obviously a vast number that represents a significant amount of driving time in the game.

The Coup de grâce is when you throw in the kicker of inferior graphical representation of those 800 cars.

In combination, is where I believe it becomes very difficult to imagine this will not have a negative impact on the game.

The big question is, how much of a negative impact?

Ultimately, that will vary for each individual. The spectrum of which has already started to establish itself, and ranges from "game breaker" to "no big deal".

With no final build testing to sample until November, I think it is very easy to declare either one in the emotional predawn hours of such a long night.

 

[Gejost]

Some people have to many time on their hands. Repeating the same thing over and over again...

 

[supersquirrel]

watch all the cars be revealed as premium! AAAHAHHAAA!!!

 

[FLASH48]

I can wait until GT6 for all premium cars and cockpit view. So NO big deal for me!

 

[okami11408]

I think it would be funny when you play the game.

Imagine you drive premium car and opponents drive standard car.

When you crash with standard car, your car wreck but nothing happen to standard car....

When you watch the replay, you can see inside of the premium car, but with standard car. it's only tinted glass.

And when you take a photo of two cars, one is premium another is standard. There's huge difference between these two cars.