Your thoughts about "standard" vs. "premium"

[Strittan]

Is anybody thinking that all cars we've seen in GTHD will be premium ????

Yes, that we have known since E3. Well, most of us anyway...

 

[II IVORBIGUN II]

Chances of premium cars being released as DLC is about zero in my opinion!

You can be sure that if PD are going to convert all standard cars to premium then these will appear in GT6

 

[alucard0712]

I think there will be updates like Spec II,III etc with cars.Kaz says that there will be sizable online team working.
Standard cars DLC - no way, impossible.

 

[Griffith500]

Hmm, it'll be amazing, if we do get small DLC packs that cost a few dollars, to see how many people who were adamant a certain other game's DLC's were insane and complete rip-offs, line up to plunk money down for these ones.

If they do DLC car packs, turning Standards into Premiums (and/or turning newly-released cars into Premiums), I don't see them working on slowly turning the whole car roster over. Some of that will just be saved for the next game; I imagine we'd have DLC packs for a year or two, but after that, probably not. Say $5 for a pack of 10... and I might buy them, depending on a) how many packs there are, and b) the contents per pack.

The micro-transactions idea of small prices to buy any car individually is exactly what the community as a whole panned years ago when it was first suggested! It's like PD (and this board) is living in a time warp.

I obviously missed the discussion. But if I remember correctly, GTHD was going to be a "pay for what you play with" type-affair - GT5 will come with a full roster of content already. I don't see why (extra) DLC would be a problem, if packs of five for a fiver are 'OK' (Forza), then why not make your own pack of five (s******) from a list of cars, that are considerably cheaper anyway! 10 to 15 pence (/equivalent) per car is reasonable, in my opinion.

Of course, nirvana would be free DLC, no matter - I don't care that DLC is easy money for the publishers; since PD is first party, they might have more clout and prevent such money-grabbing tactics.
I deliberately didn't state what the DLC cars should be, since that is a matter for PD to figure out (I don't have the time to bother myself with it), and the problem of people paying for cars in GT5 that suddenly appear in GT6 might not go down too well, either.

The fact is, we have a dependable platform for the delivery of updates, and PD have proven with Prologue that they "get it", from the players' perspective. We probably will get updates of some sort, but how this will work, we'll probably have to wait and see.

EDIT: the "expletive" was a close cognate of "snicker"...
EDIT: maybe posting about DLC in the standard vs. premium thread was a bad idea; though I'd like to think that any DLC cars would be premium. Then, of course, there's the circuits...

 

[analog]

EDIT: the "expletive" was a close cognate of "snicker"...

I know what word you meant, it's a perfectly inoffensive commonly used English term which due to its close resemblance in letters ( not meaning ) to an extremely offensive word ( which is rightfully banned ) is perceived by the swearing filter as offensive, I innocently tried to use it once and found out myself it was a no go simply for that.

 

[SlipZtrEm]

• Release new premium car models individually as paid DLC
• Create car packs so that people can buy a few at once and save money
• Reach out to the fans and hold votes on which standards should be converted to premium for GT5
• Release a few of those chosen cars as free upgrade packs as a good-will gesture
• In the background, work on converting most/all of the 800 standards into premiums for release with GT6

I do approve of this approach, let's hope PD thinks similarly.

Stop hoping for standard to premium DLC. If you do the math you will find that it is not likely. Lets say that it takes 3 months to convert(originally build premium cars take 6) and there are 40 modelers on the team.

You don't understand the modeling process if you think the existence of a Standard will cut the time to make the equivalent Premium in half. They are constructed in very different ways.

I obviously missed the discussion. But if I remember correctly, GTHD was going to be a "pay for what you play with" type-affair - GT5 will come with a full roster of content already. I don't see why (extra) DLC would be a problem, if packs of five for a fiver are 'OK' (Forza), then why not make your own pack of five (s******) from a list of cars, that are considerably cheaper anyway! 10 to 15 pence (/equivalent) per car is reasonable, in my opinion.

True, I guess this is a slightly different situation since we've already got a "base", so to speak. The funny thing is there are bunches of anti-FM zealots on here who talk of the rip-off that is current DLC (their opinion, not mine). So it'd be interesting just to see how the tone changes if GT did infact copy that model.

Of course, nirvana would be free DLC, no matter - I don't care that DLC is easy money for the publishers; since PD is first party, they might have more clout and prevent such money-grabbing tactics.

On the other hand, their first-party status and the knowledge the game itself will sell in huge numbers might have the opposite effect; Sony might realize if anything, they'd make way more money off DLC for this than most other games...

I deliberately didn't state what the DLC cars should be, since that is a matter for PD to figure out (I don't have the time to bother myself with it), and the problem of people paying for cars in GT5 that suddenly appear in GT6 might not go down too well, either.

Eh, agreed, that's why I'd love to see PD involve the community and throw some polls out there. They'd still have final say, but they'd at least get an idea of what the community desired more easily than parsing giant forums .

The fact is, we have a dependable platform for the delivery of updates, and PD have proven with Prologue that they "get it", from the players' perspective. We probably will get updates of some sort, but how this will work, we'll probably have to wait and see.

EDIT: the "expletive" was a close cognate of "snicker"...
EDIT: maybe posting about DLC in the standard vs. premium thread was a bad idea; though I'd like to think that any DLC cars would be premium. Then, of course, there's the circuits...

True, the Prologue updates were handled well, so PD's definitely able to pull these things off. I feel the DLC topic still has relevance in this thread; it's the only way we'll see the desired minimalization of this two-tier business. I don't think Kaz has ever delivered a GT after GT2 when he first said he would, so the interviews with him saying GT6 will be quicker, in two or three years, don't hold much weight with me. So a fairly regular update plan for GT5 would really be beneficial, and wouldn't eat up a whole lot of resources for GT6, since it'd easily be used for that as well 👍

 

[Dapper]

Eh, agreed, that's why I'd love to see PD involve the community and throw some polls out there. They'd still have final say, but they'd at least get an idea of what the community desired more easily than parsing giant forums .

They do.
https://www.gtplanet.net/american-requests-inspired-gran-turismo-5s-damage/

 

[zevehcj]

Key word is "If". I said if there is DLC. I personally believe there won't be DLC. Then there'll be no point in releasing GT6 on the PS3. Past GT games shows us that the second game that is released on the current Playstation is just an increase in cars and tracks(besides the minor upgrades to the graphics and physics).

 

[SlipZtrEm]

They do.
https://www.gtplanet.net/american-requests-inspired-gran-turismo-5s-damage/

Did you ever see a poll from PD asking what feature people wanted in the next game?

Thanks for proving my point though. I know they get ideas from sites such as this, but setting up a poll themselves if we ever did get something like "upgraded Standards to Premium" DLC, to determine which cars to work on first, would be a nice way to get us all involved in one centralized location.

Key word is "If". I said if there is DLC. I personally believe there won't be DLC. Then there'll be no point in releasing GT6 on the PS3. Past GT games shows us that the second game that is released on the current Playstation is just an increase in cars and tracks(besides the minor upgrades to the graphics and physics).

Not entirely true. Look at LBP; they offer tons of DLC, and yet there is huge anticipation for the next game. People will still buy the next game even if there's lots of DLC with the current one; like Frappy's suggestion last page, they conceivably would be keeping some stuff to themselves for the future game. Polishing the current one to minimize potential criticism areas wouldn't harm any long-term plans.

 

[Dapper]

Did you ever see a poll from PD asking what feature people wanted in the next game?

Having read this forum before I can tell you the results without having a poll: we want everything. So, you see now, there is no point or relevance of such a poll.

 

[eSZee]

Not entirely true. Look at LBP; they offer tons of DLC, and yet there is huge anticipation for the next game.

GT5 might be little different simply for the fact that new cars and new tracks might be the only differences between GT5 and GT6. You can see how that can put them off DLC a bit. They would need a few big differentiating features in GT6 to warrant a purchase.
I wouldn't however, be against new DLC car and track every month or so for maybe $5-$10. This way you could basically pay for another game but they could just take longer developing GT6 for the PS4 and making it much more than just an update to GT5.

 

[supersquirrel]

im sure the preorder bonus cars will be the first dlc as in psp.

 

[SlipZtrEm]

Having read this forum before I can tell you the results without having a poll: we want everything. So, you see now, there is no point or relevance of such a poll.

So I'm just going to assume you're being difficult for the sake of being difficult then, since you're still not acknowledging the point that I was talking specifically about the hypothetical idea of polls to determine which Standards to be updated to Premiums first. It's not remotely a stretch to say there are some cars that are in the Standard lineup that are probably more desired to be brought up to this generation's level than other cars. A poll conducted by PD would help figure out which cars to work on first, even if the goal is eventually every one of them.

GT5 might be little different simply for the fact that new cars and new tracks might be the only differences between GT5 and GT6. You can see how that can put them off DLC a bit. They would need a few big differentiating features in GT6 to warrant a purchase.
I wouldn't however, be against new DLC car and track every month or so for maybe $5-$10. This way you could basically pay for another game but they could just take longer developing GT6 for the PS4 and making it much more than just an update to GT5.

Hmm, it might be just cars and tracks, but who knows? Looking at the transition between GT3 and GT4, we got a lot of new features (B-Spec, Photomode, to just name two) and the Missions, things like that, and that was on the same system. GT5 has introduced a lot of new features, and there's still features it could add that are either already seen in other racing games, or completely new ones (say... a wheel designer! ). I think Analog touched on an idea earlier about the future incorporation of Move with fully-functioning cockpits, allowing us to play with the interiors... that could always happen (though probably not any time soon). The possibilities, cliché as it sounds, are endless.

Though I do like what you mention about DLC; if I spend $60 or so on DLC over the course of a year or two, who knows how much it might've added to the game, and that could easily be comparable for me to buying a sequel instead. I wouldn't be opposed to that, really. And to be honest, I'd rather they stop working on adding little piece-meal "features" and focus on fleshing them all out more. NASCAR apparently has all it's rules in place, which is nice, but something tells me WRC is little more than the name of the series. Weather and ToD transitions will undoubtedly be limited to select tracks, the track creator is basic. But on the other hand... I want my livery editor! So I'll stop rambling, heh.

 

[analog]

Maybe the final bit of DLC will just be a GT6 logo replacing the GT5 one, job done, now let's see what this PS4 can do......

 

[Gejabo]

there is tons of stuff that they can do if they are deciding to make a GT6.
thinking about motorbikes and tucks

 

[analog]

there is tons of stuff that they can do if they are deciding to make a GT6.
thinking about motorbikes and tucks

I think bikes are best left to Tourist Trophy for several reasons, although I personally wouldn't mind GT and TT being merged as it would be convenient for me to have them on the same disk ( I love TT and GT and it would be interesting to even directly compare them or race cars against bikes ) but a lot of carfans aren't keen on bikes and a lot of bikefans aren't keen on cars.
Those who use a steering wheel would find it impractical I guess ( as you can't logically use the wheel for bikes ) and don't forget PD can charge the full price of a TT-game as opposed to charging one price only for a largely overlapping demographic of gamers.

 

[minihulkster]

You don't understand the modeling process if you think the existence of a Standard will cut the time to make the equivalent Premium in half. They are constructed in very different ways.

So how long do you suppose it will take to upconvert each model considering they have to add more polygons to various areas of the exteriors, redo the livery textures on the racecars, completely model to insides of the cars from scratch(which means they will have to go out and collect more reference material because I doubt they ever collected it for the cockpit of cars), and model some of the portions under the body panels of the cars. I still stick to my 3 months per car estimate.

 

[zevehcj]

Maybe the final bit of DLC will just be a GT6 logo replacing the GT5 one, job done, now let's see what this PS4 can do......

I've thought about that possibility so many times!!!!!!!!!! As ridiculous as it sounds, I believe its a magnificent idea.

 

[SlipZtrEm]

So how long do you suppose it will take to upconvert each model considering they have to add more polygons to various areas of the exteriors, redo the livery textures on the racecars, completely model to insides of the cars from scratch(which means they will have to go out and collect more reference material because I doubt they ever collected it for the cockpit of cars), and model some of the portions under the body panels of the cars. I still stick to my 3 months per car estimate.

Premiums are built from scratch. Kaz has said they take up to 6 months of man-hours to be created. This is regardless of if there's already a Standard version of the particular model; a Standard model can't provide any meaningful carry-over info other than basic proportions. Speaking about just the car body (not the wheels), a 4000 polygon, one-piece model is nearly useless as a base to start work on a 500 000 polygon, multi-piece model. A particularly complex headlight on a Premium probably has nearly as many polygons as an entire Standard car. The textures would all have to be redone too, since they were made for one-piece models.

Standards were like those little remote-control cars you can fit different shells over to get a "new" car. Premiums are built more like real cars, being made of individual pieces.

I don't see the logic in thinking that the existence of the lesser model (which only took a week or two to be created during GT4) would somehow slice the time to turn it into Premium in half.

 

[analog]

So how long do you suppose it will take to upconvert each model considering they have to add more polygons to various areas of the exteriors, redo the livery textures on the racecars, completely model to insides of the cars from scratch(which means they will have to go out and collect more reference material because I doubt they ever collected it for the cockpit of cars), and model some of the portions under the body panels of the cars. I still stick to my 3 months per car estimate.

He meant that you can't upgrade a Standard car to a Premium car because it's a completely different way of modelling.
To create a Premium car they need to start from scratch, they can't use the Standard assets for it, they essentially and literally are useless as a starting point.
They have to rebuild the same car which was previously build as a Standard ( or GT3/GT4 model ) car, the same real life car, not the model used in previous games.

Edit, too slow and better explained above.

 

[minihulkster]

Ok, so if they have to rebuild from scratch then my previous argument is strengthened even more. It would not take about 5 years as I previously mentioned, but 10 years to rebuild 800 models from scratch. I do not see this happening. The best we can hope for is select cars being made premium. It will not be practical to convert all of them

 

[SlipZtrEm]

Ok, so if they have to rebuild from scratch then my previous argument is strengthened even more. It would not take about 5 years as I previously mentioned, but 10 years to rebuild 800 models from scratch. I do not see this happening. The best we can hope for is select cars being made premium. It will not be practical to convert all of them

Ah, true, which is why I'm all for PD having some kind of poll so that the GT community as a whole can vote for which get converted first. The end result I imagine is to have them all Premium over time though, because the Standards just can't stack up features-wise this generation, nevermind graphics-wise.

Your theory worked on 40 modelers, no? Let's hope Sony realizes that GT is very modeler-dependent, and allows PD to hire on a good amount more to manage.

 

[analog]

Ok, so if they have to rebuild from scratch then my previous argument is strengthened even more. It would not take about 5 years as I previously mentioned, but 10 years to rebuild 800 models from scratch. I do not see this happening. The best we can hope for is select cars being made premium. It will not be practical to convert all of them

Well it also depends on whether it will still take the same amount of time creating Premium cars like it did for GT5.
They've spend a lot of time creating the new game structure and maybe they can spend more time and focus on modelling cars and tracks ( not sure this is related though ).
And as I mentioned, they could take less time to create due to experience and possible new developments or streamline/optimise efficiency of the process as it is now.

 

[minihulkster]

Ah, true, which is why I'm all for PD having some kind of poll so that the GT community as a whole can vote for which get converted first. The end result I imagine is to have them all Premium over time though, because the Standards just can't stack up features-wise this generation, nevermind graphics-wise.

Your theory worked on 40 modelers, no? Let's hope Sony realizes that GT is very modeler-dependent, and allows PD to hire on a good amount more to manage.

It would be challenging to do a poll with so many cars. Maybe we can divide them up by era and PD can model the top 10 cars of each era or something. I doubt PD will hire more modelers because it seems as though they like to keep a small team(small by today's standards at least) because it makes them feel like family, but it would be nice if they did.

 

[supersquirrel]

id vote late 80's

 

[WesWelker83]

Why is it ridiculous that I don't care about cockpit view. We all enjoy playing racing games in different ways. For example im an avid hotlapper whereas some of my friends love racing online. I have another friend who will spend hrs just watching replays.

The future and the success of Gran Turismo won't be measured on trivialities like cockpit view because the way video games are made & played differs these days. If anything how successful GT5 online play is going to be is more important. These days most gamers expect a solid, robust online features in the game. Look at COD 4 & MW2 these games aren't famous for their offline/single player mode but because of the way they took online play to new levels. Thankfully PD have realised how important online play is to the franchise which is why they have put so much time and effort into it.

Sorry but i've said this before and I will say it again. When I read some of the posts in this forum its like i've gone into a timewarp and gone back 10yrs!

are you joking? you do realize you can use cockpit view online too right? well you failed there. and why ask why I think it's rediculous that you don't care about it when I already explained why. fail. It's like if your friends brother died. You hated his brother & had no use for him & all you say is "I never had a need for him to be living anyways", instead of being respectful to youe r friend & keeping thoughts like that to yourself. that's what I expect from people like you. if everyone has their own gaming style then keep your mouth shut when someone elses is being destroyed, bcuz at this point we could care less what you have to say. if they took out bumper cam it wouldn't effect me but I still would be upset bcuz it makes no sense. do you get it now? or are you still focusing on your own stubborn opinion

 

[Forgetful]

There are a lot of people who don't use cockpit cam. As a wheel user, I find it to feel disconnected from the car, since it duplicates the steering wheel, then places you a few feet back from the steering wheel in the game. It's like driving from the backseat.

With that in mind, it makes a lot of sense to include the 800 cars, even if they couldn't get a cockpit view for them.

200 cars with cockpits, done in the greatest detail ever seen in a game just isn't good enough, eh? You could run 4 different cars a week, for a year straight, in just premium cars. Standard cars are gravy.

While you're spouting off about respect, how about some for the game developers, and the limitations of time, resources and technology?

 

[stig's helmet]

personally...i'll just go to a real race course in my real veyron...or enzo...or gallardo. You get the point

 

[analog]

There are a lot of people who don't use cockpit cam. As a wheel user, I find it to feel disconnected from the car, since it duplicates the steering wheel, then places you a few feet back from the steering wheel in the game. It's like driving from the backseat.

With that in mind, it makes a lot of sense to include the 800 cars, even if they couldn't get a cockpit view for them.

200 cars with cockpits, done in the greatest detail ever seen in a game just isn't good enough, eh? You could run 4 different cars a week, for a year straight, in just premium cars. Standard cars are gravy.

While you're spouting off about respect, how about some for the game developers, and the limitations of time, resources and technology?

Seriously? You're saying to us we should be happy and thankful with the 200 cars we're getting to experience the way we expected them to play ( cockpit view ) and not complain as it should be good enough as it is, whilst you will have 1000+ cars at your disposal in the way you expected them to play ( bumper or hood cam )?
Whatever the reason why you may prefer a certain view and dislike another, that's completely irrelevant in this debate purely for the fact this isn't about choice but about the limitation of choice.
Fine to know it doesn't concern you and the reasons why it doesn't concern you but that's hardly going to convince those who have other reasons why they like cockpit view now does it?
And why pay respect to a game developer? It's hardly charity now is it? I will pay them with money, the respect they will have to earn with what I'll get in return.

Although I do have to say the analogy used by WesWelker83 is far too extreme in this context.

 

[Forgetful]

Accept it because it is reality.