Zeta News: Holden Pres Says Camaro Prototypes Due By X-Mas

[skip0110]

Every car has some recalls when they first come out...even cars that go on to earn a reliable reputation often have problems in the first run of cars off the assembly line, due to the fact that all the manufacturing processes have not been ironed out. The Ford Escape is on example, first year production had many recalls, but after than they have been quite solid. Another example is the Honda Odyssey that C&D had for a long term test a few years back; it was a very early production model (one of the first 100, I believe) and had quite a few issues, even though they are generally reliable when comapred to the total that Honda made.

With the Commodore on a brand new platform it's not surprising that the assembly line has some teething problems!

 

[YSSMAN]

Certainly. I would also look at it this way:

...The more problems they sort-out in Australia, the fewer problems we will have here in America...

 

[TopHat]

Every manufacturer has a recall once in a while, so its no big deal, this will not deter sales. I cant wait for the impala, only wish the grille won't be so huge!

 

[YSSMAN]

More rumors and such about the American Zeta "flagship":

General Motors might move the next-generation 2009 Chevrolet Impala upmarket in order to prevent overlap with the 2008 Malibu, according to insiders cited by Automotive News.

There's speculation the front-wheel-drive Malibu could steal sales from the new Impala, which is widely believed to be based on GM's new Zeta rear-wheel-drive architecture. The source told the trade publication it's too early to know how GM will position the new Impala, but a market analysis following the launch of the Malibu should give the automaker a good idea of what steps to take.

The 2008 Malibu will be unveiled at the Detroit auto show in January. The most recent spy photos show a vehicle with a significantly bolder exterior design than the existing Malibu. The next Impala will seen an even more significant styling change, possibly introducing retro elements similar to the 2009 Camaro.

It sounds like a reasonable idea. Back in the '90s the Impala was the luxury model in the Chevrolet lineup, and it was partially the same way back in the day as well. Obviously the SS model would have to be something special, but even the average model (LS and LT) should carry some weight as well. It does make you wonder though...

Will GM pull a fast one on us, import the Caprice/Statesman as the Impala, and badge the Commodore as a Caprice? You know, set it up like it was?

(Although technically speaking, the Impala is supposed to sit at the bottom of the line there, the Caprice being the luxury version of the Impala)

 

[GT4_Rule]

Wasn't the Malibu just redesigned a few years back? I'd welcome a new design though, the current one is too lame.

But with the Impala moving upmarket there should be a SS version, just like in other Chevrolet models.

 

[Lt.Doomsday]

Hopefully, they might get the idea to make a RWD Impala.

 

[inferno]

i dont see how they think the two cars will affect eachother. the malibu is a front wheel drive midsize sedan with a V6, and the Impala will be a rear wheel drive full size sedan with a V8. unless they plan on going, up in size/rear wheel drive/to a V8 with the malibu, i dont see how the two cars will affect eachother at all. there in two different size classes, and they'll be even more different than the current Malibu and (front drive) Impala. whos' butt is this coming from again?

 

[Jay]

Hopefully, they might get the idea to make a RWD Impala.

Well so far it seems the next upcoming Impala will be a Zeta based car (Current only used by Holden Commodore and Statesman/Caprice at the moment) so if thats the case yes Impala will be RWD again.

 

[YSSMAN]

i dont see how they think the two cars will affect eachother. the malibu is a front wheel drive midsize sedan with a V6, and the Impala will be a rear wheel drive full size sedan with a V8. unless they plan on going, up in size/rear wheel drive/to a V8 with the malibu, i dont see how the two cars will affect eachother at all. there in two different size classes, and they'll be even more different than the current Malibu and (front drive) Impala. whos' butt is this coming from again?

Well I believe the thought process at GM is that the next-gen Epsilon 2-based Malibu will indeed be a larger car to better compete with the Camry and Accord, while the Impala may move up a notch (again) in size to compete better with the Charger, 300C, Avalon, etc. Separate but equal would probably be the best way to describe it, the Impala obviously being a bit more luxurious to begin with, but offering similar equipment on both so that GM can satisfy people who are looking for either FWD or RWD in their cars, given the stigma that people still have against RWD in this country.

 

[harrytuttle]

Well I believe the thought process at GM is that the next-gen Epsilon 2-based Malibu will indeed be a larger car to better compete with the Camry and Accord, while the Impala may move up a notch (again) in size to compete better with the Charger, 300C, Avalon, etc. Separate but equal would probably be the best way to describe it, the Impala obviously being a bit more luxurious to begin with, but offering similar equipment on both so that GM can satisfy people who are looking for either FWD or RWD in their cars, given the stigma that people still have against RWD in this country.

How can there be a stigma against rear-wheel-drive when so many new cars are set to be rear-wheel drive? Add to that the success of Chrysler's rear-drive platform, and I think the stigma is either dead or dying.

As for any overlap with US cars, I think that will be a problem that they didn't have before. Forty years ago, there were plenty of cars of the same design but with different badges. They still sold, though, since US pride for US cars was so much higher than it is today.

 

[TopHat]

I can see the Lineup now...

Subcompact
--------------
Aveo F/F

Compact
--------------
Cobalt F/F

Midsize
--------------
Malibu F/F

Fullsize
--------------
Impala F/R

Luxo
--------------
Caprice (woot!)

 

[YSSMAN]

^ You forgot about the Camaro and Corvette! Maybe even the Chevelle (to replace the Monte Carlo) too!

 

[inferno]

Well I believe the thought process at GM is that the next-gen Epsilon 2-based Malibu will indeed be a larger car to better compete with the Camry and Accord, while the Impala may move up a notch (again) in size to compete better with the Charger, 300C, Avalon, etc. Separate but equal would probably be the best way to describe it, the Impala obviously being a bit more luxurious to begin with, but offering similar equipment on both so that GM can satisfy people who are looking for either FWD or RWD in their cars, given the stigma that people still have against RWD in this country.

well i see what your saying with the malibu, it is a bit small, but the Impala, charger/300C, and fivehundred are all pretty much the same size. within a half inch of eachother in length. interior space could be different though i suppose.

on the other hand the "separate but equal" comment makes good sense. viewing the impala as somewhat of a rear drive alternative to the malibu instead of annother class of vehicle alltogether. like what ford almost has with the fivehundred/crown victoria. if the crown vic wasnt such a... yeah.

 

[YSSMAN]

From what I understand, the next-gen Malibu (which I believe goes on sale next fall) is quite an impressive car to begin with. If indeed the Impala is supposed to be the luxury alternative to the car, I expect great things from GM. Refinement levels should be outstanding, and given current cars like the Aura and the performance that it puts fourth inside and out, this next crop of cars should be very impressive.

...Time will tell. We're only a few months away from the official unveilings, the New York show at the very latest...

 

[High-Test]

Can we do something about the Bastard front wheel drive Monte Carlo, then? What, exactly is the car's purpose, again?

 

[GT4_Rule]

^ You forgot about the Camaro and Corvette! Maybe even the Chevelle (to replace the Monte Carlo) too!

I think the Monte Carlo name is perfect, and for me, I prefer the name Monte Carlo to Chevelle.

Can we do something about the Bastard front wheel drive Monte Carlo, then? What, exactly is the car's purpose, again?

To be a coupe version of the Impala.

 

[YSSMAN]

I think the Monte Carlo name is perfect, and for me, I prefer the name Monte Carlo to Chevelle.

I have to disagree there. By far, IMO, Chevelle holds far more weight than Monte Carlo, at least in this day and age. Sure, they've been building the Monte Carlo since the early '70s, but its time to bring back the true, mid-size coupe in the Chevrolet lineup.

 

[YSSMAN]

We're almost there guys...

The 2009 Chevrolet Camaro is perhaps one of the most hyped concept-turned-production cars in recent memory. But following GM's announcement in August that it would produce the new Camaro, the automotive news world went somewhat silent on the subject.

Toward the end of the month, that could change. According to a report by Australia's Drive magazine, engineers have begun building prototype Camaros, which will hit the road before Christmas. The news comes from Holden boss Denny Mooney. Holden, GM's Australian subsidiary, is in charge of developing the Zeta rear-wheel-drive platform, as well as the Camaro itself.

As previously reported, GM is also likely to import the new Holden Commodore as the next Pontiac Grand Prix. As always, stay tuned for spy photos here on LLN as soon as prototypes of both vehicles arrive on public roads.

This is good news indeed. With only two months until the official debuts of the models at NAIAS, prototypes should give us a pretty clear indication as to where these models are headed. The news only gets better folks, and in the not too distant future we will once again see RWD cars being sold at our local GM dealers. I can't wait...!

 

[Jay]

Nice to hear Holden is in charge of Camaro development.


On other Zeta news, suprisingly with all the hype of the VE Commodore (although all new Commodores get alot of Hype) the the Toyota Aurion has just beaten it for Australian car of the year.

 

[YSSMAN]

A "Camry" won Car of the Year in Australia too? Hmmm, why don't I trust people at some automotive magazines anymore...?

At least Car and Driver is smart enough to stay away from all things Toyota these days. I know they are very excited about the Zeta models coming here, and it will be interesting to see if they can knock the 300C off of the "10 Best" list in the near-future.

 

[TopHat]

💡 Idea time.... lets keep the Monte Carlo FF, but make the REAL Impala coupe a Chevelle.... 💡 Yay! It all works out!

 

[YSSMAN]

Nobody is very sure what GM will do with the Monte Carlo after the Zeta program is in full-swing. Given that the Oshawa plant in Canada is going to build both the Zeta RWD models and the last W-Body model, the Buick LaCrosse, the future of the Monte Carlo is questionable right there.

...But there has always been talk within the halls of GM that Chevrolet needs a large coupe. Rumor was that they were basically going to re-badge the Monaro/GTO as a Chevelle, but even that is questionable now with the Camaro going on sale either late next year, or shortly thereafter in 2008.

At least from my point of view, it comes down to what GM wants to do with NASCAR. Given that all of the models that are either currently ran, or at least will be (outside of the Monte Carlo) are sedans, using the RWD Impala may work out in the end. Die-hards realize that NASCAR should be using coupes, but we can't change the way that things have gone.

I'd hope for a Chevrolet version of the Monaro to be called the Chevelle, but I don't know if it will happen. What it would come down to is how much GM wants overlap to occur, especially with the GTO as a certainty. The Chevelle would have to do without a lot of the "sporty" options, or the GTO would have to go above and beyond the Chevelle to begin with.

Ah, but the possibility of a Chevelle SS is always a wonderful thought. I don't care much if it doesn't handle incredibly well, nor do I care if it is "sleek" or "sexy." Throw in the LS7, hook up a T56, have a limited slip rear-end, and sell it for $40K. Give the folks in the M6 next to you the finger, and leave them in a cloud of Goodyear Eagle chunks and smoke.

 

[Jay]

A "Camry" won Car of the Year in Australia too? Hmmm, why don't I trust people at some automotive magazines anymore...?

Well it's quite nice, even has a more powerful V6 than the Commodore. What I have seen from VE so far hasn't been overly impressive (mainly all due to weight and a very soft/long travel suspension), they did say the Aurion just scrapped past the VE for the award.

 

[YSSMAN]

...Well I don't find the Camry all too impressive either, and I can't see too many cars getting in the way of the Commodore once it comes Stateside. Maybe the next-gen Accord, and maybe the updated 300C, but that would be about it...

 

[Jay]

...Well I don't find the Camry all too impressive either

Well the Aurion is seperate from the Camry so I am not basing my thoughts on it from the Camry, it is a all new model only just build here and released, I have only seen two on the road so far so I can't disprove what the press say about it. I have no doubt the Zeta cars in the US will get much praise as this is a renewed RWD assault, but as for Australia that is nothing new and special at all (Holden and Ford AU main model range has always been RWD).

Aurion seems so far to be a large improvement of the Avalon that it replaces over here, I but I havent driven it yet so I can't comment on how it is personally.

 

[TopHat]

Throw in the LS7, hook up a T56, have a limited slip rear-end, and sell it for $40K. Give the folks in the M6 next to you the finger, and leave them in a cloud of Goodyear Eagle chunks and smoke.

+rep 👍

Some people just cant stand the Chevrolet badge. Some cant stand the Pontiac badge. It all personal preference. If you think overlap is bad now, just remembe what went on during the 70's. Every GM division got an A-Body car ( the intermediates) With the Buick GN, the Chevelle, the Pontiac Grand Prix , The GTO, the Monte Carlo, there were so many of them, and they would rob sales. But it all went back to GM anyway, so who cares?

 

[L8 Apex]

Some people just cant stand the Chevrolet badge. Some cant stand the Pontiac badge. It all personal preference. If you think overlap is bad now, just remembe what went on during the 70's. Every GM division got an A-Body car ( the intermediates) With the Buick GN, the Chevelle, the Pontiac Grand Prix , The GTO, the Monte Carlo, there were so many of them, and they would rob sales. But it all went back to GM anyway, so who cares?

But the big difference back then was that each division had its own engines, even if they happened to be the same size (e.g. Buick, Pontiac and Olds each had their own 455). As soon as GM management got the bright idea to stick Chevy V8s and Buick V6s in Pontiacs and Oldsmobiles, the buying public abandoned the General in droves because they (rightfully) felt they were being cheated because, for example, they were buying 88s and LeSabres for significantly more $ than an Impala or a Catalina yet they had the same engines as those "lesser" B-body derivatives. I think that GM's taking a hatchet to the whole brand autonomy and interdivisional rivalry thing was really the primary cause of the downward spiral from which their still trying to recover.

 

[usedHONDA]

At least from my point of view, it comes down to what GM wants to do with NASCAR. Given that all of the models that are either currently ran, or at least will be (outside of the Monte Carlo) are sedans, using the RWD Impala may work out in the end. Die-hards realize that NASCAR should be using coupes, but we can't change the way that things have gone.

I think that's the reason that they will try to keep the Monte Carlo. They want it to "be the car with the more NASCAR wins than any other car". It would make a good impression, and if they let Ford take the title, they will just show it of, change their slogan, and rub it in all of their competitor's "sorry" faces.

Just my small minded, short lived, easy to shred in a blender opinion.

 

[Jay]

But the big difference back then was that each division had its own engines, even if they happened to be the same size (e.g. Buick, Pontiac and Olds each had their own 455). As soon as GM management got the bright idea to stick Chevy V8s and Buick V6s in Pontiacs and Oldsmobiles

Yes, those were the days that I find GM vehicles really interesting (and still do) but as they started sharing engines and drivetrains across the board aswell as got serious with badge engineering I have lost some interest in them.

BTW GM is not alone with this.

 

[YSSMAN]

Some people just cant stand the Chevrolet badge. Some cant stand the Pontiac badge. It all personal preference.

Here's to hoping for change next year! GM is supposed to debut five new cars at Detroit, my guess is that it will be:

- '08 CTS
- '08 Malibu
- '09 G8 (Commodore)
- '09 Impala (Commodore/Caprice)
- '08 Solstice Coupe