Sound Off! Getting More People to Like Small Cars and Vintage Cars in GT

Well, my position is a little schitzophrenic.

I'm saying that while I'm not fond of dinky pocket cars like the Ks, and will basically only do those races once, I want them in the game. I want them in the used car lots. I want trucks and whatever else Kazunori wants to cram on that Blu-Ray disc, so that if someone wants a particular vehicle to race, it's there waiting for them. Heck, racing Model Ts or As would be amusing, and it would fit in with Kaz's vision of the history of racing.

The little cars are a lot of fun to drive when you have equal or slightly better competition. One of my favorite cars is the Volkwagon Beetle. I have the 4WD RSI and love doing the easy challenges with it. It's a very nimble and quick car. In GT3 I had a Suzuki Alto and loved it equally. They have their place and I'm sure they will be an important part of GT5.

-> Heh, heh, I still love my 85hp Honda S800 race car (max speed 110-130 mph) going 'round and 'round the Nurb. Very few people here in GTPlanet can cerish that, a micro mini car (smaller than the original Mini) that gracefully taking the apexes is totally priceless in my opinion. (:

^^The S800 race car and Ginetta G4 are two of my favorite little cars in the game. They're like go-karts; tiny, and fast as hell!

Someone said that the Ginetta G4 was one of the ugliest cars to date. I 1000% disagree. That is a beautiful, low car. I first recall the Ginetta G4 as it raced the Monterrey Historics. This low car is small but beautiful. How can you not like a little gem like this one? I still love my Honda S800 Race Car. That thing is a front-engined go-kart. I think I used it to win some small car races. Only thing more powerful would be the Mitsubishi CZ-3 Tarmac Rally Car. It packs about 230 and is a charm. All three cars mentioned are must-own. They may change your mind about small cars.

The only feature I don't care for on the G4 is the bubble-like rear window, it just looks odd.. But the rest of the car more than makes up for that little flaw, especially in Lagoon Blue or Mars Red .

Doesnt the CZ-3 kind of defy the point? (so powerful)
anyways, I've been meaning to drive this, 60's Jag (269hp) I got in the garage, well, since I got it, about a year ago. Beautiful car. A Lotus Europa, another beautiful car, like a mini Monte Carlo. (drove that a lot though) and The Mazda 110S, neat little car there too. Does the original Golf count? the epitomy of a tin can, great little drivers' car.
but there isnt too much for a skilled driver to run these in, in GT4.

One thing GT4 lacks is suitable tracks for smaller, lower powered cars, sure racing them at the ring is great fun, but you don't always have time for a 10 min per lap race.

[UPDATE]
Who can remember doing the Daihatsu Midget event at Motorland for the One-Make series? I usually like to consider Motorland as a nice track for just about any car of any level. And I think even if you have to look to more fantasy courses to suit these small cars, you may have to do whatever you can to provide tracks for small cars. Look at "ToCA Race Driver 3." The game utilizes almost every permanent road course for just about a number of configurations. Tracks like Zaandvort(?), Brands Hatch, Bahrain, Oran Park, Eastern Creek, and a few others utilize all sorts of configurations. About the only track in GT4 which really utilized multiple configurations are Twin Ring Motegi. I mentioned Motegi because there are over three road course configurations plus the superspeedway. That's four tracks total. Can you imagine an even shorter configuration around Grand Valley Speedway or Midfield maybe? Some more club-level race tracks would suffice for smaller cars.

I always say that a "true" beginner's track is the road course configuration of Mallory Park. Here is a link to more information on Mallory Park courtesy of e-Tracks: { http://www.etracksonline.co.uk/Europe/mallorypark.html }. The Car Circuit is what you have to gaze upon. This is a more interesting Beginner Course than the one GT4 provides. This one is actually faster and more of a circuit than Beginner Course ever was. That's even though the course features one devastating hairpin. The course initially shown is the Bike Circuit, which features some extra legs of the course to add some extra difficulty to the course and just specially-catered additions to the track. My experience with this track came when I downloaded it for the classic "Sports Car GT" as a conversion from some other game. Lime Rock Park is a beautiful race track in a lovely setting. It's also a track that would be pretty nice for 20-car fields. A pack of 24 would be sweeter around these parts. This is Lime Rock Park using the same site: { http://www.etracksonline.co.uk/NAmerica/limerock.html }. Road Atlanta ( http://www.etracksonline.co.uk/NAmerica/roadatlanta03.html ) features a few different configurations. I'd love to see Road Atlanta and Sebring just to add to the sportscar racing feel in the Gran Turismo series. I will say that PD will have to look to Europe and Japan for a good number of club-spec racing circuits to cater to small cars. Maybe look to Australia's Oran Park (still get Bathurst! You dig, nihonjin players?).

So let's move the discussion from interest in small cars to looking for tracks to compliment these autos. Discussion continues.

Don't neglect all the tracks in America, John. Just check out the SCCA website. Each region has a range of tracks which would suit small and lower powered cars.

-> I've a nice race track back in my home country, the Philippines:

Batangas Race Circuit

Address:
Batangas Racing Circuit, Barrio Maligaya, Rosario, Batangas, Philippines

Length:3.4KM Long
Width: 12-15 meters
Longest Straight: 650 meters
FIA Class 4 Homologated Circuit

Facilities:
Hospitality Suites
Control Tower
2 Covered Grandstands
45 Pit Garages



^ This track is also seen on the Asian Formula 3 Championship, and some Philippine Touring Cars (between 1.6L (110hp-130hp) to 2.0L (135hp-200hp). It's good racetrack for smaller/low horsepowered cars, and not to mention the bumps and its narrow layout. (:

GT5 needs tracks for all cars, instead of 3 tracks (Autumn Ring Mini, Motorland, Begginer Course) for small cars to enjoy, they need around 40 for small cars.
And they should add more vintage cars to the game, 60's-80's generation I was thinking

Er... I'd like 40 tracks for all classes too, but that would add up to perhaps 200 tracks! And I don't think any game has more than 75 total. But whatever we can beg out of Polyphony will make me happy. That Phillippine track looks awesome! And it's in Polyphony's neighborhood... who knows?

I'll have to say that you guys talking about the Ginetta caused me to loose my senses, and as I was about to drift to sleep on the couch last night about 1 am, I decided to go ahead and try it on... Nurburgring.

But it was a blast! It's squirrely and once you loose control, forget it, but that little buzz bomb is a fun diversion from Supras and JGTC cars.

What they need is more variations, tracks like Monza for example have layouts for fast cars and slow cars but you don't hear about the smaller configurations much sionce they're used mainly in the club racing scene, same goes for the Nurbergring, all you need is perhaps 4 or 5 tracks made for smaller cars, and then configurations of existing tracks that are suitable for smaller cars too.

-> I also got another racetrack from the Philippines:

Subic Bay International Raceway

Track Length: 3.0km (long course), 2.8km (medium course), 800m (short course)
Width: 12-15 meters
FIA Class 4 Homologated Circuit

Facilities:
Hospitality Suites
Control Tower
Grandstands
16 Pit Garages

The long course consists 16 corners, the medium course 14 corners, the short course 7 corners





^ This track just like the one in Batangas Circuit, is also one of the track in the Asian Formula 3 Championship. (:

Hell, why don't you just give Polyphony Digital some Filipino love for Gran Turismo 5, The Vanishing Boy?

Not even most rally games have 75+ tracks. Some people say there are 100 or so tracks in GT simply because you can race some of them in reverse. I'm talking about different configurations. Take Brands Hatch for example. You have the Short Course, the Rallycross course, and of course the speedy (and tricky) Grand Prix course. I consider these as different courses rather than one track with extra variations. I can think about Tokyo R246. You know the northwestern part of the track that looks like its own oval? That oval-like part of the track can maybe have a race for low-powered cars. The last GT to feature short versions of street courses was GT2, which featured short configurations for Seattle and Rome. Street courses can be tricky little things to work with. It's almost as if you can take one section of the city streets to construct a certain course with apart from the big course (let's call the normal layouts as "Grand Prix" configurations for the sake of this argument). A smart use of the different environments can make for some lovely extra courses in addition to the normal street course. Permanent and semi-permanent courses can probably feature extra courses to support extra tracks for extra events. Kei cars may be a bit more fun on go-kart style tracks. You may not be able to fit a whole bunch of cars onto a go-kart course, but we're talking about as many as possible for a certain go-kart track. "ToCA Race Driver 3" features about 20 karts to a track in the kart racing series. I would like to think that these courses would be real appropriate for them. Well-designed short courses will feel just as intimidating as F1 courses, only for small cars. I really suggest that you sporty types get a Suzuki Cappuccino or a Mazda AZ-1. Those are two solid small sports cars. You think the Miata is a small wonder? You think the Elise is a small wonder? The two cars I mentioned are two solid cars that only get better with tuning. They are also two of a few RWD small cars.

Let's stay on the subject of tracks.

I don't know what to add to that, except Amen bro.

One thing I might add is that someone posted an interesting idea in one of the track builder threads. I don't know if this was their entire idea or not, but original courses we design ourselves could be done fairly easily in GT5.

Designed ourselves to an extent. See, Polyphony could create a setting in three or so different regions. One, a city area, one rural paved country, one, a wooded area with roads that go from pavement to gravel. Perhaps a mountain could be in one section of it. Each one could be a few miles to several miles square, and have dozens of roads running through it. The city area could be set up with highway sections and boulevards with changing elevations and occasional streets intersecting at odd angles, and similar situations with the rural and country roads.

The way you could "design" your own racecourse would be to select connected streets, either in a circuit with a specified number of laps, or point to point, then select a class of cars to race against, select your own car, a possible difficulty value, then hit CREATE RACE.

This came to me as I was driving to work one morning, as it's a rather quick paced drive down some boulevards with a few fun kinks, hills and drops, and of course I tend to take it over the limit. But it occured to me that if Polyphony could build a city area like this, or rural, country or whatever, it shouldn't be hard to set up a bunch of game code to link those streets into a race course at our choosing. I think this would be an easy way to satisfy the course builder in all of us.

EDIT: Also the free roamer in all of us. I forgot about that, and the areas could be made scenic, with plenty of locations which would be good for taking Photomode shots of our prize rides.

I've been driving my '61 Elan... and my thumb hurts... but it might just be the best handling car in the game.

Grand Valley: west section
El Capitan: section eliminating the big straight
Special Stage R11: just bring it back
Midfield: section cutting after high speed esses, sharp turn back to middle of straight on other side

just some ideas I had

PD should bring back the rest of the short courses, e.g. Seattle Short and Rome Short. Although that does involves resurecting Rome Circiut, and with exception of its scenery, I was never particulary fond of that track. Oh well, Rome Night Course from GT2 was badass, though.

3-Wheel Drive, Rome-Night is an example of something PD should avoid doing in any future GT or Tourist Trophy games. Rome-Night was a perfectly-fine race course, but you couldn't race on it very much unless you were in Arcade Mode, in a Race Generator event, or that Super License test. That is a perfectly-fine course I would have loved to race in a variety of cars and races, but what action does GT2 give it? Hardly any. And they could have named it Rome-xxxxxxxx instead of Rome-Night. Rome-Night means that it's the same course raced only at night. Instead, it's a totally different course away from the main circuit. Motor Sport Land could have made a nice small car track or a club-racing venue, but even that had no racing love for it of almost ANY kind. That was one of the many reasons I think GT2 my least favorite GT in the entire series no matter what ANYONE thinks. Lost oppurtunity, people. Lost oppurtunity.

I completley forgot that course... and it was so great, it wasnt even funny, too
GT2 was my least fav, too.
and whatever that track was called, from GT3, the testing course, with a gazillion turns, of every kind. that was neat too

^ Oh, oh, I know that course! It's the infamous Complex String:



BT-> I don't know about you guys, but GT2 for me was my favorite prior to GT4. Aside from glitches, downgraded graphics, etc., I think small car in GT2 was given with utmost importance compared to the rest of the GT franchise. I used to remember racing my Daihatsu Midget II on Rome Night, I had more fun racing with it compared with my 1983 Lancer GSR at George V (one of my least played tracks in GT4). I hope GT5 will bring back of those small tracks. (: