Sound Off! Getting More People to Like Small Cars and Vintage Cars in GT

[Laorin]

Mini-car rally racing. My God, I think I just fell in love with something I never even knew existed

Seriously, that sounds funny as hell. I haven't even considered the possibility that these can use dirt or ice tires. You guys have breathed new life into GT4 for me, this is great This is almost as bad as the time as my friend Josh raced sunday cup (autumn ring mini) completely in reverse gear and managed to win somehow. Crazy stuff I hadn't even given thought.

 

[JohnBM01]

Cars like the Mini Cooper and Ford Ka are pretty good in rally, I hear. If I find some certain minis and superminis, then I'll be sure to let you know what other small cars stepped up on the rallying stage. I can tell you that most Kei cars have an advantage- front-wheel drive or four-wheel drive. Both of which should offer great control. Four-wheel drive offers great control on off-road surfaces, so why not mod up a mini 4WD car, take it to an off-road race in GT, and see what you come up with?

I'll likely update my findings in another post rather than update this post.

 

[JohnBM01]

Actually, DRS (Daihatsu Racing Service) has been a popular contender in rallying. You may laugh at Daihatsu when I've said they can be great contenders in racing, but if you can enter into rally racing, be an active supporter, and stay in the rally events, then you're not really a sorry competitor then, aren't you?

Here are some links to prove that Daihatsu has been a power in Kei rallying:
http://www.rallysport.aust.com/news/december98/0055.html
http://www.turnaround360.com/daihatsu.htm
http://autoweb.drive.com.au/cms/newsarticle.html?&id=DAI&doc=dai9909141
http://www.rallysportnews.com.au/cms/A_102422/article.html

So the Sirion and Charade have been two of Daihatsu's rally weapons. Would be interesting to have them in GT5 so mini car rally-goers can kick up some dust of their own. Carry on with more replies if you have more [positives] to add to this topic.

 

[The Vanishing Boy]

-> I used to remember those rally-ready Daihatsu Storia X4 1.3L AWD. If I can recall then back in GT2 and GT3. (:

- One Storia meet in Japan:

- A stock Storia X4 {Ver.1} (w/ a cross bar [look inside]):

- A mildly-modified Storia X4 {Ver.1}:

- One clean Storia RS {Ver.2}:

- A rally-moded Storia X4 {Ver.1}:

 

[Dave A]

The Sirion rally car in GT2 was great, it could beat most of the proper rally cars. But it was a mot more powerful than your average Sirion.

 

[Bossman]

I'm surprised the Daihatsu Charade GTti has not appeared in GT.

The GTti was launched in 1987 and was instantly loved by the motoring press. To this day it is still the fastest one litre production car in the world!

The engine is 3 cylinder, 993cc, twin cam (or DOHC if you prefer), 12 valve, turbo with intercooler and electronic fuel injection.
That lot gives 99.2 BHP @ 6500 RPM and 95.8 lbs ft torque!

0-60 comes up in 7.7 secs and top speed is 116 mph.

from

Link

Daihatsu Charade GTti Owners Club

The Charade GTti



In GT4 I liked driving the Daihatsu Cuore Avanzato around the Ring with around 74-76 BHP as it kind of reminds me of the Mini Cooper 1.3i that was only avalible to Japanese (and South Korean?) versions of GT4 .

 

[235RX-7GT-C]

I just LOVE when people think it makes them sound cool and smart and skilled by saying that people who only like "fast" (100hp started it) cars can't drive good... saying words like suspension and racing lines doesnt make you knowledgable about cars.. you all (now 6 of you) are pretty cocky for none of you seeming to have any real racing experience.... and no, neither do I - to bad I didnt say I was the S***, otherwise I'd be a hypocrite

Any real racer??? get over yourself, dude

Yeah I agree with this. I am not a race car driver. and I understand Why. But, I live Iowa and during the winter I use the snow to my advatage. My car would be a Hornet car and I drive it like one during the winter(I havent got caught yet! )and I feel as though I can relate to racecar drivers. Yet I am not even close to what skill they have. So, Go ahead and yell at me for what I said. And stop bragging

(If this didn't make sense please feel free to say so, KINDLY. Merry Christmas)

 

[G-T-4-Fan]

In real life I like to see small cars They earn some other kind of respect really But in GT4 I think they kinda lack the race feel in general. When you drive it some of them are so lacking power that you'll begin to wonder if racing lines are necesarry here cause your going as fast as yur bicycle.

BUT the BIG BUT here...lol....is the Renault Clio sport This is a car that drives like a race car
If this feel will come into GT5 even more I'm VERY VERY glad with small cars.
If not I'll always be happy with my sweet Clio exception as long as they dont make the clio Bad all of a sudden in GT5.

I like small cars, recent small cars are actually quite fast in real life, thats what makes them cool, fast if you want but not vulgar at all. More like an underestimated small car on steroids

 

[Tenacious D]

I'm all for as many cars as possible. Porting over the 700 some odd models from GT4 should give Polyphony plenty of time to model all kinds of other cars. I'm still hot for a good list of Volvos and Saabs. More American and Euros please.

Small cars? Antique cars... well, yeah, to a point. I mean to say, DO include them. Kazunori-sama wanted GT4 to be the history of automotive racing, and GT5 should be his dream realized. I'd like to see well over a thousand or more cars at launch, with a steady stream periodically available for download.

However, I DON'T want to be forced to race too many of them. Model T races?? Err... not looking forward to that any more than I am NASCAR or monster trucks. 👎

But should it be in there? I think so. For those who get curious, like the guy who took the very first steam powered Mercedes around Nurburgring, stick it in there.

 

[Badsight]

I'm surprised the Daihatsu Charade GTti has not appeared in GT.

In GT4 I liked driving the Daihatsu Cuore Avanzato around the Ring with around 74-76 BHP as it kind of reminds me of the Mini Cooper 1.3i that was only avalible to Japanese (and South Korean?) versions of GT4 .

hello bossman , another hot hatch fan i see!

you know about the Daihatsu Charade Detomaso ? was the small charade shell with a 1600 in it 👍 , awesome little car

right now , we have what i have long considered to be the Ultimate small car

the Honda City Turbo II (110 Hp) , these old Honda Citys were very light & that gave them awesome pickup to 60 kmh , even the non-turbo versions were quick off the mark . i never took note of them till a freind brought a City Turbo (first version) . even when thrashing it , it still gave back 60 MpG

i have managed to have a drive of a Suzuki Cappucino , they are such good handeling fun , its crazy . their little turbo motor just sings too

 

[Badsight]

im also surprised the first model Honda Civic didnt make it into the game

it was like Japans answer to the British Mini - except with more power , better brakes & handeling & a nicer ride :0

instead they added the ugly , characterless second model Civic

 

[martialstax]

Personally, I love the older cars in the game. I have every car from the 70s and older, with most of the cars from the 80s. And I love the small cars. They can be a lot of fun. In the GT2 forums is a race lap/tour of the Seattle short course I took in a Subaru 360. It was a blast to do, and the people who read the thread appreciated the tour of my hometown.

Both Nurburgring and LeMans without the chicanes are a blast with small and older cars. Maybe the sense of speed isn't as apparent as racing those courses in larger, newer, more powerful cars, but I find I'm having more fun in the slower, older, less powerful cars.

I was compiling a list of American muscle cars, totally stock except for oil changes, raced at LeMans, just for top speed and lap times. If anyone wants, I can post them up here as soon as I find the list.

 

[Jim Prower]

I have nothing against cars older than 1980 (Favorite car of all time: '69 Charger.) nor do i have anything against cars with less than 100 hp.

but at least let us make the damn Mercedes Horseless carriages go faster than 10 mph.....Please.

 

[Mt. Lynx]

I want to say that the old Honda S models (S500, S600 and especially S800) are great fun to drive in GT4, and I do want them to stay in the series. They aren´t that fast, but man they rev like mad, and the S800 handles like a true sportscar! Wonderful piece of machinery!

 

[The Vanishing Boy]

^ I highly agree!

-> I also like to see those old school Minicas on GT5 too. (:

 

[IMADreamer]

Well this is my first post ever here so I am not sure it counts for much but here goes anyway.

After some time the idea of small cars finally grew on me. I did enjoy driving them around some on GT4. Sure they aren't as fun as the SL65 AMG or SLR but they are a pleasant change from time to time. The thing I hope to see in GT5 is an expansion across the board in all catagories of cars and hopefully this will include small cars. I'm not sure why everyone here plays the GT series but for me it's about just getting a small taste of what it is like to drive cars I will never have the chance to drive, let alone drive on the legendary tracks of the world. I do get a kick out of the small cars when I go back to my roots of just enjoying the game for what it is and that is a driving simulator.

I don't understand why this topic or the topic of what cars should be in a game spark so much heated discussion but they do. This is the reason why I largely stay out of these internet communities. Life is too short to be argueing all the time. So no matter what cars are in the next game and no matter who enjoys certain cars and not others, just enjoy it.

 

[JohnBM01]

Well if life is too short for arguments, then maybe I don't need to be on GTPlanet! I'm glad people are responding to old threads of mine like this one. As long as there's something relevant and/or useful, I'm happy.

Jim Prower, you talk about making the Daimler carriages faster? Well, I think the thing to remember is that these cars weren't sports cars. There was no aftermarket then. I doubt many cars had some kinds of options available for cars. I can recall automobiles not having a multitude of options. For example, seat belts were optional, many cars didn't come in multiple colors... I'm trying to think of other things, but there wasn't as much to enhance or improve cars back then. It's almost impossible to say that these cars need to be hopped up for being too slow. They were fast in their day. Then too, I don't think many people known or cared what top speed was like.

It's nice to see someone agree with me that the Honda S500, S600, and S800 are great cars. I still enjoy a 1960s Shelby GT350, but the S500 - S800 were nicely-styled cars. I still think the S800 Race Car in GT4 was a front-engined go-kart. It was such fun to race with. It is perhaps the best car to use when you get tired of racing speed demons and want to have some fun away from the faster autos. If you like sports cars and want to look into some nice Kei cars, why not the Suzuki Cappuccino or the Mazda AZ-1? Someone posted a specially-tuned version of the Mazda AZ-1, and it looked pretty nice. Just too bad I forgot what it's called or [exactly] how it looked.

 

[prodriver]

I love the point brought up by this thread and totaly agree with it. I am always racing normal everyday cars with mild real life affordable mods. also the old 60s & 70s rally cars like the 69 isuzu and the 70 celica with era mods. If you think about GT4 being a simmulator and not a game, and you are a "real" car guy (my opinion) its a blast. pushing a car to its limits is the same if its 60mph or 200. it just takes more grace and skill to go slower. seems backwards but if you try it youll know what I mean. do the math loose chassy + crappy brakes + sloshy suspension+ light weight + low HP... well lets just say its not easy.
You know when I was a kid I tought girls were gross then I tried one Mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm!!!!


This isnt need 4 speed!!!! Car guys love cars not whats the hot new import and how big a turbo you can get 4 it.

 

[Jim Prower]

Jim Prower, you talk about making the Daimler carriages faster? Well, I think the thing to remember is that these cars weren't sports cars. There was no aftermarket then. I doubt many cars had some kinds of options available for cars. I can recall automobiles not having a multitude of options. For example, seat belts were optional, many cars didn't come in multiple colors... I'm trying to think of other things, but there wasn't as much to enhance or improve cars back then. It's almost impossible to say that these cars need to be hopped up for being too slow. They were fast in their day. Then too, I don't think many people known or cared what top speed was like.

A Horse was faster than a Diamler Carriage in it's day. Seat belts were nonexistent in the 1890s. By the 1920s, though, speed parts were appearing for cars like the Ford "T". To say people didn't have much need for speed in the early years of motoring is like saying the sky is green.

To your credit, I took my Daimler carriage out for a spin, trying to keep an open mind, when I found another annoying little habit of the carriages...the goddamn ELECTRONIC REV LIMITER. It's annoying to go from 11 mph to 4 mph at WOT. It's also COMPLETELY inaccurate: these things usually ran the engine at constant speed, like a lawnmower. Kaz needs to fix this if he's gonna include the Daimler carriage in GT5

And I still say a John Deere "B" would be more entertaining.

 

[JohnBM01]

I've heard several times about people wanting to see more pre-war vintage cars to be in GT5. Do you agree? And if so, what models do you have in mind?

Which decade would you want to see more older cars in GT5:

A.) Before 1950
B.) 1950-1960
C.) 1960-1970
D.) 1970-1980

Specify what would make you happy with the cars in the decade you've chosen after choosing an option.

 

[martialstax]

Which decade would you want to see more older cars in GT5:

A.) Before 1950

Specify what would make you happy with the cars in the decade you've chosen after choosing an option.

I could fill out an entire GT game with nothing but cars from this era, but I'll try to hit just a few, and I'll limit it to the US for right now, although there are hundreds of cars from the rest of the world that would be great fun as well:

1911 Mercer Raceabout
1914 Stutz Bearcat
1927 Model T Ford roadster
1931 Model A Ford roadster
1932 Ford V8
1931 Duesenberg SJ
1934 Cord 812
1931 Auburn Speedster (boattailed speedster)
1940 Ford coupe
1948 Hudson Hornet
1949 Olds 88
1947 Studebaker Champion
1930 Packard 745 Roadster
1925 Kissel Goldbug
1934 Essex Terraplane
1937 Lincoln Zephyr
1940 Packard Darrin roadster
1940 Lincoln Continental
1930 Cadillac V16
1937 Chevy coupe
1938 Graham (supercharged shark-nosed Graham)
1921 Miller 183 racecar
1921 Duesenberg racecar (French Gran Prix winner)

I'd also like to see hot rods from this era. Some really creative work was done prior to World War II.

 

[Jim Prower]

I'd like any of the cars 1910 and up, wiht some 1900 and up Racers. before 1900, cars really don't excite me..

With the possible exception of Count DeDion's Steam Carriage.

 

[Lambo88]

Well, there's no need to be a jerk mate. Small cars are just as fun as big ones, small cars don't have to be crap either. How would you know a daihatsu is redundant to drive? Daihatsu has made performance models before, sadly they're not in GT4.

That's ridiculous. A 200 hp car can be entertaining to drive in some way, but any car below 100 hp CAN'T be fun in any way. That's the problem with GT. They have 900 cars, but 300 of them are too slow to be enjoyable in any kind of way (under 100 hp).

They'd better come up with a little bit less cars but replace the 60 hp Suzukis, Hondas and Nissans with cars like the Ion Red Line, Cobalt SS Supercharged, Sentra SE-R Spec V, Mazdaspeed Miatas, etc. Cars that have a minimum potential.

 

[Force-Feedback]

I don't think they should get rid of the under 100 hp cars...

(however annoying they may be)

Just make cars that are more 'interesting', i don't like any of them crappy daihatsu's or other similar cars, but how about everyday cars which would be like first cars in real life.

Such as a Corsa, Punto, Saxo, etc...

💡 I wonder if there'll be go-karts in GT5...

 

[Dave A]

Lambo88 I dissagree, I've found driving many low bhp cars entertaining, especially in the K-Car cup if your in a car where your racing the AI not hammering it.

 

[JohnBM01]

Live4Speed had an interesting take on this issue. He talked about driving dynamics being different in sub 100hp cars. Almost all of us are used to racing very fast automobiles in racing games, but I don't know about driving dynamics in a sub 100hp car. Here are examples. The older Mini Coopers were some of the most awesome automobiles in racing history, even if they didn't have the prestige and glamour of Ferrari or Porsche. They've done well in circuit racing as well as rally racing. It's almost fraudulent to say that a car like a Mini Cooper shouldn't be among some of the best cars ever made. It proved to be an automobile capable of big car fun in a small package. But if we're talking about driving dynamics and Kei cars, I don't know what's so much different because many of us are used to faster cars. A slow car to some people is something like a Honda Civic Del Sol. A low-powered car to us is something like a Volkswagen New Beetle with about 115hp. A reason why I love being a "citizen of the world" with automobiles is because you get to see what's average in your native nation, compared to something average in another nation. I am almost NEVER pro-American. I don't care about horsepower and top speed all the time because I've grown to respect automobiles for more reasons than just performance aspects. This is a redundant statement that still bears purpose.

A person into Mustangs and Corvettes isn't likely to be fond of a Daihatsu Move or a Mitsubishi Toppo (2WD or 4WD) because many of us only care for the fastest-possible or most fun automobiles. Fun is a mixed concept. What is fun? Is it being able to blast down a straight at 175+ mph? Is it about taking a Suzuki Cappucino around a tight and narrow race track? I think something can be done about this. I hate using "do away with Kei cars." Just because you don't care about these cars doesn't mean the whole world has to. Automotive culture is different elsewhere in the world. I hate the closed-minded aspects to automobile culture. I tend to want to open up. This has helped me appreciate more cars in Gran Turismo. Part of it was seperating fact from fiction, the other part was a personal commitmentto myself to actually enjoy racing these things more. How do you think I eventually loved the Mini Cooper?

If I can get myself to respect them, anyone can. Why don't we carry on this discussion? Go right ahead.

 

[Force-Feedback]

I could probably get myself to like these 'small' cars,

But i doubt i will like any mini's whatsoever
Or Daihatsu's,
Or any of them VW Beetle's,

Sorry if anyone likes them but that's just me...

But i do like one of those Suzuki wagon 'R' cars (but i'll have to point it out)
And i like the new Corsa

 

[martialstax]

I lived in England for two years, from 1982 to 1984, I owned a 1971 Morris Mini, red with the 1000cc engine. It was great fun. I drove it all over that island nation. I've always liked cars, and I didn't much worry about how big or how small or how powerful or how fast. I once owned a 1964 Lincoln Continental and a 1980 Renault LeCar (Renault 5 outside the US) at the same time. Both were entertaining in their own way. The Renault couldn't cruise all day at 100 mph with 6 people on board gliding effortlessly across the open interstate with the bellow of that magnificently smooth 430ci V8. But the Lincoln couldn't be hurled through mountain passes and two-lane backroads at 9/10th with ease, shifting up and down through the gearbox finding just the right gear to keep the fun going all day.

My greatest drive was in a woefully underpowered Turkish-built Renault 12. I was up in the Taurus mountains of southern Turkey with some friends, and we were heading back home down on the coast. I was simply enjoying the drive, choosing my lines, shifting up and down, keeping the car in it's narrow power band, making the most of it. Only afterwards did I realize that the car had grown quiet. My passengers weren't talking. I wasn't pushing the car insanely hard. I wasn't taking stupid risks. I was just trying to be as smooth and efficient as possible. When I finally reached the bottom of the mountains and was on the main road into town, my passengers finally spoke. They thougth it was the most amazing thing they'd ever seen. They could see that for the last half hour I was completely committed to my driving, to the exclusion of everything else. They never once felt scared. They just enjoyed the drive. It took me some time to come down from the adrenaline buzz from how good the drive had been. I've had a lot of cars over the past 30 years, sports cars and coupes and sedans, new and old, American, Japanese, British, French, German and Italian, but none will ever top that puny, underpowered, shoddily-built Renault.

 

[Badsight]

they gotta be fun to drive , it dont matter how slow they as long as they are fun . the slow speed physics ruin the fun of low-powered cars in GT4

& inherently cool , not just the little grocery getters

& there is HUGE room for more 50's , 60's & 70's cars - soooo many classics , so so many . . . .

Bizarinni's anyone ?

 

[Maven]

Alright, please... If you are a person who HATES small and low-powered car, please do NOT post in this thread. Just ignore it... it's easy! It's not going to hurt you. This thread is for people who enjoy older and smaller cars to discuss them.

Besides, I believe that if PD got rid of all of the smaller cars, it would lose something and wouldn't be a GT game anymore. It would become something like PGR or Need For Speed and we already have games like that. If you really hate the small, low-powered cars in GT, the best way to signal your displeasure to PD is to not buy the game! I'm sure you'd be much more happy with another game anyways.

Now back to the topic, I'm another person who really enjoys the older 'vintage' cars and I wish there would have been more of them. I often wish for a game that just featured 'classic' cars. I would love to see more pre-60's cars in the next GT (my secret wish is that finally a game will feature the BMW 507...)

As an aside, someone mentioned earlier that when driving a Viper, they barely got any wheelspin. I can only answer with a 'Huh?' Maybe they have stickier tyres or have the traction control on, but when I drive a high-powered car, I have to be careful with the gas or I'm creating a big cloud of smoke and watching the other cars drive away... o.o