Sound Off! Getting More People to Like Small Cars and Vintage Cars in GT

[LeadSlead#2]

"a lot" would consitute the following:

JDM H22A Engine swap (which offers approximately 10hp over the H22a1 US model). pointless, since you replaced what gives that power diff

Type-S pistons (which are higher compression than the standard pistons found in the H22a) what's the old and new numbers?

Intake (short ram, better torque numbers, wrapped in thermo-wrap)
intake generally hurt torque on tiny engines
Adjustable cam gears (not camshafts, gears) thanx

8lb Fidenza Flywheel

Greddy Header

Custom Test pipe where's that go?

Greddy SP Exhuast cat-back? muffler? cant tell

Optima lightweight battery (11lbs) neat

Forbidden True Shortshifter

VAFC (tuned for A/F ratio and adjusted VTEC engagement point)

a couple sets of wheels, namely:

Enkie RS6 18" for show purpose

Rays Engineering Gram Lights 57pro for show purpose

Rota Slipstreams for track use

KYB Shocks with Ground Control Coilovers (420f / 440r)

Neuspeed Front Upper Strut Bar

Custom rear upper strut bar

Progressive rear lower sway bar



This doesn't even include all of the maintanence, to include:

Timing Belt repalcement with manual tensioner swap

A/C removal

engine block cleaned in hot tank to remove grime and build up (as well as carbon)

ported intake manifold



The list will continue as I begin working on it again in early 2006, but that is pretty much all taht I constitute as "a lot of work". man hours specifically, since I had to do it alone.

well, clearly you have cash... how about some pics and or video?

 

[LeadSlead#2]

I don´t really understand. You want all cars to grip more than they do IRL? I´d say a Viper doesn´t pack more grip than the N3 provides, and that is actually pushing it. As a comparison to RL I can take the BMW M5. It does 8:14 around the ring IRL. With N2 on I did 7:57, without any real effort to it. The grip on highpowered cars is far to good in game IMO. On the other hand, grip in FF cars is portraid way to bad, even with R5 tyres on, so PD has to do some balancing on that subject. And if they also portay speed better, worse grip would make the experience of all cars much better. I mean, it´s a scary experience driving a lowpowered FF on the edge, imagine a supercar on the edge!! If that can be implemented into the game, they have a winner!

my point with S2's is, you can't improve the tires on a Viper really, they're huge, and extreme high performance... so yeah, I call em sports tires..
and what I mean with grip, is the Viper can hook up like crazy in real life, so just putting N2's on it will cause to much tire spinning, that's all

 

[Dave A]

In GT4 you can plant your foot in the Viper and it hardly squeeks, irl you do that and your spinning thoes rears like mad. Don't even try to say you don't. People who race Vipers fast do not nail the throttle out of every corner or from every start, thats why they don't spin the tyres like mad. I can spin the tyres on my 306 if I want to, don't tell me the tyres are thinner, blah, blah. They arn't trying to cope with 500bhp, they deal with less than 90. A Viper spins it's tyres when you plant your foot.

 

[LeadSlead#2]

I'm talking straight-line... yes you can plant your foot, not till the clutch is out, and your at about 2000rpm, and you should do it progressivly but quickly, but yes, you can

 

[tha_con]

well, clearly you have cash... how about some pics and or video?

Having been a single soldier in the military, I made roughly 1,400 every two weeks, and living expenses weren't extremely high, so yes, I invested a few dollars.

These pictures (as well as information) are out of date by about a year or more, howver it's the most recent I have.

http://prelude.verse5.com

Since last year, the car has been repainted black, the body kit has been removed in place of stock body parts and a Wings West RS Aearo kit (sides and rear only) with a CF spoon replica front lip.

 

[LeadSlead#2]

Pioneer 4700MP Head Unit
Pioneer 250watt 6.5” Speakers x 4
Pioneer Tweeters x2
Pioneer 12” SubWoofer x2
Pioneer 800watt Amplifier
and in the project section, it says the stereo cost 250$
well, hes a thief... or buy from one...

P.S. So, why the big stereo if you were so concerned with weight you pulled the AC?
doesnt sound very race track friendly...

please, forget I said any of that, and let everbody go back to business... it was so much better talking about what we were before you barged in like a blubbering idiot and probabley ruined another thread

 

[tha_con]

Pioneer 4700MP Head Unit
Pioneer 250watt 6.5” Speakers x 4
Pioneer Tweeters x2
Pioneer 12” SubWoofer x2
Pioneer 800watt Amplifier
and in the project section, it says the stereo cost 250$
well, hes a thief... or buy from one...

P.S. So, why the big stereo if you were so concerned with weight you pulled the AC?
doesnt sound very race track friendly...

please, forget I said any of that, and let everbody go back to business... it was so much better talking about what we were before you barged in like a blubbering idiot and probabley ruined another thread

The amp/speakers are all on a quick release panel, they come out with no effort, and I have them in there for every day driving. You really don't care too much about weight when you're not at a track, not all of us are street ricers like you.

Also, the cost of the stereo is only inclusive to what I purchased, not what was in the car when I bought it. The head unit, tweeters, and mids (the 6x5's ) were all in the car when I bouht it. The amp was 150 and the Subs were 50 each as they were discontinued. I got them on sale at Best Buy. Thanks for the accusation and personal insult though.

On another note, to be on track with the thread.

Anyone else here enjoy the France races? I love going against all the other french cars, probably one of my personal favorite races in the game.

 

[LeadSlead#2]

The amp/speakers are all on a quick release panel, they come out with no effort, and I have them in there for every day driving. You really don't care too much about weight when you're not at a track, not all of us are street ricers like you.


one last problem, the guy with that website states he has a problem with people who have show cars, with no engine mods, that try and act like their cars are fast too, and basically implies that he races people on the street, by the way he states it

The real problem lies in the general idea that once you look good you are eligible to hit the streets and wipe out us grease monkeys.
see? I thought hitting the streets was gay and dumb?
I detect poser

ok, now I'm finished
P.S. e-mail me back!

 

[tha_con]

The amp/speakers are all on a quick release panel, they come out with no effort, and I have them in there for every day driving. You really don't care too much about weight when you're not at a track, not all of us are street ricers like you.


one last problem, the guy with that website states he has a problem with people who have show cars, with no engine mods, that try and act like their cars are fast too, and basically implies that he races people on the street, by the way he states it

The real problem lies in the general idea that once you look good you are eligible to hit the streets and wipe out us grease monkeys.
see? I thought hitting the streets was gay and dumb?
I detect poser

ok, now I'm finished
P.S. e-mail me back!

lol, a "poser" right.

Where I live, there are a lot of military people, as I used to be. The problem is, they often come back from a deployment, and they invest heavily on their car, however they only invest in the body of the car, paint job, body kit, etc etc.

The reason this bothers me, is because I have an exhuast on my car. I do not want to race on the street. I enjoy track racing only, everything else is a waste of gas. It annoys me, to no end, when people do two things:

1) Rice out their car (show no go) and run around looking for races

and

2) Try to race me, meaning revving me up, flashing their headlights, etc.

I will not do it, I hate it, it drives me nuts. Which explains my statement.

Now, if you're doing rummaging through my personal sites, perhaps you can give it a rest? If you'd like further proof that it is indeed my car, you can visit:

http://www.verse5.com/forum/

take note I am the administartor, because I own the doman.

If that is not enough for you, please do visit:

http://www.absoluteprelude.com/forum/

register and ask around.

If that is not enough, you can also visit:

http://www.superhonda.com/forum/

go to any of the above listed. Many members will tell you it's my car, and that I'm very anti-street racing.

Thanks for all of the extra effort though, it makes me feel very special.

 

[LeadSlead#2]

I'd rather you simply email me back
I'd hope you can within 1 hour
any later will tell me that you simply know the guy....
you responded here - why havent you returned my email?
unless you can email me back from that site very, very soon (it's been 2 hours now) it'll pretty much declare you as a ......poser

However, if you can email me so soon, my advanced apologies, to you, for such harsh allegations
except the part where you whine about street racing, I'll laugh over that... forever

 

[tha_con]

If you sent email to the site, then it did not go to me, it went to an alternate email addres. But I'll one up you. I'l update the site and write a special messege to you.

Hopefully that will be enough to "convince" you otherwise. Also, you could have emailed me at
:the_eyecon@hotmail.com as it's my primary email address.

 

[LeadSlead#2]

If you sent email to the site, then it did not go to me, it went to an alternate email addres. But I'll one up you. I'l update the site and write a special messege to you.

Hopefully that will be enough to "convince" you otherwise. Also, you could have emailed me at
:the_eyecon@hotmail.com as it's my primary email address.

are you serious? first off, that wouldnt necesarily be the website's owners email, you do realize that, right? secondly, you don't have one listed, so no, I couldnt have just emailed you there, couldve I?
update it soon then, cause I'm losing interest very quickly

P.S. whats the point of having email to your site, if you cant get it? you should look into that as well.................................................................................................................................................................... 💡 👍 💡

 

[tha_con]

it's been updated you simple minde child.

Als, the site was created as project by a friend of mine, she's a CIS major and needed to make site for a project. Hence, it is here email listed as the webmaster. But mine is listed as well, the_eyecon@hotmail.com , you can simply send me email from this site and I will respond from the same one, i don't know why you are going through such lengths to attempt to make a fool of me, as if you feel insecure or something. But whatever man, it's all good I suppose.

http://prelude.verse5.com

Your name is right in the front.

 

[tha_con]

funny...all of the sudden the reply's....stopped.

 

[LeadSlead#2]

it's been updated you simple minde child.

insults are better when spelled better than this...

Als, the site was created as project by a friend of mine, she's a CIS major and needed to make site for a project. Hence, it is here email listed as the webmaster. But mine is listed as well, the_eyecon@hotmail.com , you can simply send me email from this site and I will respond from the same one, i don't know why you are going through such lengths to attempt to make a fool of me, as if you feel insecure or something. But whatever man, it's all good I suppose.

http://prelude.verse5.com

Your name is right in the front.

the stupidity settin..... wait -- remember where I said don't take to long? otherwise it only proves that you know who owns/operates the site? yep, sorry
you already said somebody else operates it... you failed to mention that at first or at all before... why? why didnt you have her set it so the email goes to you?
maybe it is you, maybe it's not... I don't much care, you failed to do anything in a reasonable amount of time, considering you were online, reading watching and typing the whole time... so no, I dont feel stupid
but, you did however, do very well in presenting a case that was close, and probabley could get a hum jury... but nothing more...
and even if I were to for whatever reason, assume its true... it still implies on the site, that the owner street races... says nothing about hating street racing, and never mentions the track.... at all - and if you can update so easy, why don't you update the rest of the site? its been a year right?

 

[LeadSlead#2]

and stupidity settles for who?
I'm sorry it took me a whole half hour - jack@$$

 

[tha_con]

LOL okay.

So you're telling me that because I let a friend use webspace to make a project that it's wrong? LOL.

This is TOO good.

Anyway, I don't have to prove that the car in question is mine.

Also, it talks about my disliking for show cars who pretend to have speed, but say's nothing about street racing, or me doing anything of the like. Why don't you post the entire paragraph, rather than using portions of it to work for you?

[/i]
Honestly, it is not a problem to want a show car, in fact it's admirable, it takes a lot of time and effort to truly put together a great show car. The real problem lies in the general idea that once you look good you are eligible to hit the streets and wipe out us grease monkeys. If the money was available, yea, I'd own a prelude for the sole purpose of looking good, but since it's not you have to cut corners sometimes and save your money for other things so you have that "oomph" to back up that extreme look. But to reiterate, there isn't a problem with show cars, just the attitude that sometimes comes with the owner of the vehicle, that is where the real problems stem.[/i]

To sum this up, I have a problem with a body kit suggesting speed, when I work hard on my motor for hours. Which is also the reason I got rid of my body kit, because I was irritated by the attention it recieved. It was very annoying, VERY annoying. You have no idea.

With that being said, I don't have to "debate" any longer, I know it's my car, and many others would agree. It is also my webspace, you can check the forum for that much. I have two accounts, tha_con and the primary account, Jeremy, my first name.

I appreciate your endless effort to look cool

 

[LeadSlead#2]

your right, I endlessly tried to show what my car is mine..... yep you got me there
sadly, as I said immedietly, you could've responded with email or the website fast, if it wasnt somebody you know, I gave you a long enough time to do it, since you were online the whole time, and not doing anything important... but you didnt, maybe its yours maybe its not, I just don't care that much - if you woulda done something fast, I'd definetly believe you, but you didnt

as you should already know, nothing else in that phrase has anything to do with street racing... or any racing
so I used the paragraph that sounds like street racing talk - to bad
and..... why, take all that time, and never mention all your track visits on your website? not that that has anything to do with it, but im curious

 

[tha_con]

because she didn't ask me questions about track racing. Those were interview questions, part of her final, part of the requirements, to have an interview or overview of a person on the website.

Hence, there was no reason to talk about it if it was not asked of me.

 

[JohnBM01]

In defense of my buddy "tha_con," if he means "a lot of work on it" and doesn't include "rice" or anything, it speaks for itself. A 1993 Honda Prelude obviously isn't something like a 5.0 Mustang or a Corvette, or something. It doesn't mean, however, that "a lot of work" doesn't equate to much. If you put a lot of time into modding a car for maximum performance, wouldn't you want to prove how much work it took to make it hot? Oh, and by the way... just because the make is Honda doesn't mean that it's not supposed to be a good performer. It's okay to associate Honda with great performance even if it isn't the NSX.

To stay on course with small cars, you can look around on the Internet for some car clubs. Among some of the names and clubs, I've seen some clubs for the Honda Beat, Mazda AZ-1, and even the almighty Suzuki Cappucino. Some collect small cars, some race small cars. Regardless, it's perfectly fine to have a little fun with a nice small car.

I recently looked up the website to Daihatsu, a small car specialist. Maybe not noted for the fastest cars, they do make interesting cars... only small and usually designated for the streets of Japan. Fuel consumption and getting around town have been two issues this company attacked for some time. I would like to see if there may be some more worthy cars that can be great competitors on the track.

I think I'll go to one last conclusion. A number of small cars (including the Mini Cooper) are FWD and mostly "hatches." Just because one of these autos are FWD doesn't always implicit "a cheap 'Point A to Point B' car with very little excitement." Many of the small cars weren't built with sports car intentions. Having said this, I'd keep the recent Minis in GT5, but also include the classic Mini. And unlike GT3, have it available to buy without having to unlock it. And uh, let's keep sounding off about the topic at hand, please...

 

[Laorin]

your right, I endlessly tried to show what my car is mine..... yep you got me there
sadly, as I said immedietly, you could've responded with email or the website fast, if it wasnt somebody you know, I gave you a long enough time to do it, since you were online the whole time, and not doing anything important... but you didnt, maybe its yours maybe its not, I just don't care that much - if you woulda done something fast, I'd definetly believe you, but you didnt

as you should already know, nothing else in that phrase has anything to do with street racing... or any racing
so I used the paragraph that sounds like street racing talk - to bad
and..... why, take all that time, and never mention all your track visits on your website? not that that has anything to do with it, but im curious

lead, could you please stop it already? we're tired of the discussion. you're disrupting a good thread because of your attitude about one person and it's entirely destroying the weight and impact of John's point. whether tha_con is telling the truth or not doesn't mean anything for the rest of us so take it to a PM or you're going to run the possibility of getting banned just like our buddy RacerX. tha_con, I've got nothing against you but you don't owe him anything so stop carrying out the argument. It's just feeding the fire, which is just ruining things right here.

Now, let's get back to the damn point of the thread already and chill the hell out. This place is meant for people to discuss things and have fun with it all, not to wage war.

I think our current state of what consoles can DO is what is making these.. "slower" cars less fun to drive. I'll try to get this out in words as best I can. Consoles rely on two things mainly for 99% of the users out there to convey media. Imagery, and sound. These are only two of our human senses. What can you possibly do to make something more "fun"? You're very limited in what you can do on a television screen without some kind of special hydraulic living room rollcage seat-like thing that looks like its going to tie itself in a knot when you crash. I can't remember for the life of me what that damn thing is called.

Part of the fun of driving in real life obviously is the G forces you feel, how the acceleration and cornering feels, the smell of tires and brakes and gusts of fresh air. You also have pretty much free vision which consoles can't really do at this point unless we were to go matrix-style and completely and radically change our input methods. So we're really.. severely limited in our range of output and input regarding console systems. This isn't a processing power problem, this is a problem with how we inherently play games. This is why drag racing's essence isn't really captured in GT4. This is why racing small cars isn't quite as fun as the big exotic supercars.

In the supercars, things move faster, visually, on screen, and carries a more inherent risk of crashing which increases adrenaline production and increased heartbeat rate. This is why I think these cars are more fun - they capture something more than the visual and audible aspect of things. It's the same principle behind why so many people love rollercoasters - the adrenaline. It's addicting. Yet more people don't appreciate the slower cars as much due to the fact that they aren't really dream cars. There's the exotic, "oh my god i'm in a zonda" feel.

It's difficult to explain but I hope you're all with me and can understand what I'm getting at.

 

[JohnBM01]

Well Laorin, you're not going to come across many people who wouldn't really consider a Ferrari or a Porsche a dream car. How many will actually say up front "my dream car is a Suzuki Cappucino" or "my dream car is a Mazda AZ-1?" Not too many, I'll tell you that. It is common for people to say that "sense of speed" and "small car/Kei car" don't really match together. While that may be true, if you're travelling at fast speeds, you'll begin to see and feel it. I don't know if the sense of speed is missing from these cars or what. Regardless, you mod up a car, it's obviously going to be much better than stock.

You all talk about sense of speed in regards to these automobiles. So, let's talk about sense of speed, GTPlanet. Is it missing with these slower automobiles, needs work, or what?

 

[Mt. Lynx]

I´ve been touching that subject a bit before, so I think the sence of speed needs some adjustment. Lower grip and more speedsensation, should show what it´s like to drive a Kei car on the edge. And if damage is implemented, that would be really scary! Turning at highspeed could flip you over, or bust a wheel in a Kei car. Also, if damage/speedsensation/lower grip is implemented into GT5, the supercars would benefit from that too, since people could really start to see how good they (the supercars) really are, compared to the average everyday car. And how hard it is to drive one really fast around a track.

 

[Laorin]

Well Laorin, you're not going to come across many people who wouldn't really consider a Ferrari or a Porsche a dream car. How many will actually say up front "my dream car is a Suzuki Cappucino" or "my dream car is a Mazda AZ-1?" Not too many, I'll tell you that. It is common for people to say that "sense of speed" and "small car/Kei car" don't really match together. While that may be true, if you're travelling at fast speeds, you'll begin to see and feel it. I don't know if the sense of speed is missing from these cars or what. Regardless, you mod up a car, it's obviously going to be much better than stock.

You all talk about sense of speed in regards to these automobiles. So, let's talk about sense of speed, GTPlanet. Is it missing with these slower automobiles, needs work, or what?

I was agreeing with you. Maybe I worded it wrong, but that was my point is that Ferrari or Porsche or whatever are like holy grails to a lot of people. There is that factor too, was what I said.

I addressed the problem about the lack of fun for the slower cars, but it seems to have missed an audience.

 

[Dave A]

I think he missread your post thats all.

 

[LeadSlead#2]

In defense of my buddy "tha_con," if he means "a lot of work on it" and doesn't include "rice" or anything, it speaks for itself. A 1993 Honda Prelude obviously isn't something like a 5.0 Mustang or a Corvette, or something. It doesn't mean, however, that "a lot of work" doesn't equate to much. If you put a lot of time into modding a car for maximum performance, wouldn't you want to prove how much work it took to make it hot? Oh, and by the way... just because the make is Honda doesn't mean that it's not supposed to be a good performer. It's okay to associate Honda with great performance even if it isn't the NSX.

who said they werent?

To stay on course with small cars, you can look around on the Internet for some car clubs. Among some of the names and clubs, I've seen some clubs for the Honda Beat, Mazda AZ-1, and even the almighty Suzuki Cappucino. Some collect small cars, some race small cars. Regardless, it's perfectly fine to have a little fun with a nice small car.
nobody ever said don't have fun with them
I recently looked up the website to Daihatsu, a small car specialist. Maybe not noted for the fastest cars, they do make interesting cars... only small and usually designated for the streets of Japan. Fuel consumption and getting around town have been two issues this company attacked for some time. I would like to see if there may be some more worthy cars that can be great competitors on the track.
yeah, right.... great competition for themselves ONLY. and other crap cars... certainly not even comp for a 100hp civic
I think I'll go to one last conclusion. A number of small cars (including the Mini Cooper) are FWD and mostly "hatches." Just because one of these autos are FWD doesn't always implicit "a cheap 'Point A to Point B' car with very little excitement." Many of the small cars weren't built with sports car intentions. Having said this, I'd keep the recent Minis in GT5, but also include the classic Mini. And unlike GT3, have it available to buy without having to unlock it. And uh, let's keep sounding off about the topic at hand, please...

well, you didnt speak that directly to me about the off-topic soooo, maybe you have more sense than the other one....


Laorin, are you an idiot? really, are you? or did you just forget where tha_con jumped in outta hell knows nowhere and re-started an argument me and him had a month ago? you got a problem with it going off topic? complain to either somebody in power or tha_con - cause I'm not having a d@m bit of your crap

 

[LeadSlead#2]

I´ve been touching that subject a bit before, so I think the sence of speed needs some adjustment. Lower grip and more speedsensation, should show what it´s like to drive a Kei car on the edge. And if damage is implemented, that would be really scary! Turning at highspeed could flip you over, or bust a wheel in a Kei car. Also, if damage/speedsensation/lower grip is implemented into GT5, the supercars would benefit from that too, since people could really start to see how good they (the supercars) really are, compared to the average everyday car. And how hard it is to drive one really fast around a track.

Assuming this is true (the part of Kei cars) I just lost any shred of respect I had for them... highspeed turning can make them flip? or bust a wheel? and people actually get pi$$ed when I call them complete crap? how? a 11,000$ civic or cavalier won't do any of those things, and still (especially the Honda) get great gas milage... thats just really pitiful....

But I do agree with you wholeheartedly on the sense of speed needing to be better... I personally think an actual in-car view would help a lot... since right now you can see 500 yards to each side... it's going by pretty slow..

 

[Mt. Lynx]

Assuming this is true (the part of Kei cars) I just lost any shred of respect I had for them... highspeed turning can make them flip? or bust a wheel? and people actually get pi$$ed when I call them complete crap? how? a 11,000$ civic or cavalier won't do any of those things, and still (especially the Honda) get great gas milage... thats just really pitiful....

But I do agree with you wholeheartedly on the sense of speed needing to be better... I personally think an actual in-car view would help a lot... since right now you can see 500 yards to each side... it's going by pretty slow..

I´ve actually flipped a suzuki keistyle model twice, so thats is definitly doable They are high, have small shoppingtrolley like wheels, and inferior brakes, so they flip without much effort. plus the suspension is actually crap, so busting that, or a tiny wheel, won´t take much either.

I agree with the incar view. That would fix alot of things!

 

[Laorin]

well, you didnt speak that directly to me about the off-topic soooo, maybe you have more sense than the other one....


Laorin, are you an idiot? really, are you? or did you just forget where tha_con jumped in outta hell knows nowhere and re-started an argument me and him had a month ago? you got a problem with it going off topic? complain to either somebody in power or tha_con - cause I'm not having a d@m bit of your crap

This is like RacerX all over again. Stop acting like a little kid throwing a temper tantrum and get back on topic please.

 

[LeadSlead#2]

This is like RacerX all over again. Stop acting like a little kid throwing a temper tantrum and get back on topic please.

oh goody, yet another person that realizes they were wrong, and trys to play it off by playing the mature card.... great, maybe your mature, but your not smart so who cares? mature? mature people would've either a. pointed a finger at the person who caused the problem, or b. blames both parties involved
not what you did - get over yourself

now, perhaps you should get back on topic - since I already was