Sound Off! Getting More People to Like Small Cars and Vintage Cars in GT

[mbavaria30s]

Reading comprehension is a sorely underrated skill, as evidenced by this thread.

Congratulations, you fail elementary grade english!

beisdes, didn't laorin.. point his finger at .. the one who caused the problem? wait no.. not in your skewed view at least. It's always someone elses fault when you get a finger pointed at you.

BTW christ wasn't born on december 25th. More propaganda from the Church to embrace and extend pagan holidays. Happy holidays, christians.

 

[Laorin]

Not only a temper tantrum, but an inferiority complex too it seems. Fun.

<back on topic lol>

Anyway, I'm kind of curious, what have been the best rides for everyone in GT4 so far? As far as low-horsepower solutions go. I'd like to get in them and see first hand what makes them so great. I don't usually race them but I'm not closed-minded and would like to give any low-hp ride suggestions a try.

 

[Mt. Lynx]

*Retrieves notes from testdrives*

The Citroën C3 was fun, and also the very underrated Daihatsu Sirion X4 is great on twistier, bumpier tracks like the ring and El capitan. The 60´s Alfas are fun too, but I wouldn´t know if they fit into this category. Thats as far as I´ve come in my "testdrive-all-cars" mission. Well, currently on Dodge...

 

[Swift]

LeadSlead#2, just stop now. This thread has great potential and is currently being hindered in a mighty fashion. So, just stop now.

 

[SavageEvil]

I have nothing against small cars in, but the sense of speed just draws me right out of the ride.

GT4's sense of speed is messed up to the point where when you are taking a corner at 60, 70, 80 mph you aren't even the slightest bit surprised. That is quite strange to me, maybe it's the fact that im driving from a position that no human can actually be at in a vehicle? GT5 needs in-car view similar to PGR3's, it must be at a realistic level(average driver height) for the vehicle you are in, and allow for some peripheral view, so 16x9 widescreen is a must for GT5, 4:3 just can't cut it. Hopefully they can sort out the sense of speed, the high powered race cars are wickedly fast, but only after accelerating from 100, because you blow through 0-60 in one gear while lighting up the tires, .

 

[Laorin]

*Retrieves notes from testdrives*

The Citroën C3 was fun, and also the very underrated Daihatsu Sirion X4 is great on twistier, bumpier tracks like the ring and El capitan. The 60´s Alfas are fun too, but I wouldn´t know if they fit into this category. Thats as far as I´ve come in my "testdrive-all-cars" mission. Well, currently on Dodge...

Kick ass, thanks. I'm going to try those out now.

edit: Yup, you took good notes. They were definitely not bad rides. Makes me wish I had a DFP to appreciate these a little bit more.

 

[LeadSlead#2]

LeadSlead#2, just stop now. This thread has great potential and is currently being hindered in a mighty fashion. So, just stop now.

Hello,Swift... I only have one question here, and that's all...
I have stopped, and I had stopped before, well before laorin started getting angry about anything, so I'll ask you to please read through all posts in this thread before making such a determination... and I'm 100% sure you'll see that not only was I back on topic before Laorin's post, but you'll also see that, when somebody decided to say this about me

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Yes , there are people who play GT and unfortunatly only care about finding the fastest cars and moddiing them to the fastest possible degree. Any real racer realizes that racing is about going as fast as possible in the given equipment even if it is a 78hp hatch. Speed and power are only part of the equation, what about suspension settings and racing lines.......


which implies several absolutly untrue things about me and probabley some other people..


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I just LOVE when people think it makes them sound cool and smart and skilled by saying that people who only like "fast" (100hp started it) cars can't drive good... saying words like suspension and racing lines doesnt make you knowledgable about cars.. you all (now 6 of you) are pretty cocky for none of you seeming to have any real racing experience.... and no, neither do I - to bad I didnt say I was the S***, otherwise I'd be a hypocrite

Any real racer??? get over yourself, dude

Because it seems that, many people love jumping to the conclusion that if you don't like what the common man or common enthusiast likes, you are a unskilled person... I would imagine he's talking about GT4... which makes this staement not only untrue, but bodly arrogant and unfounded - which is why I was upset - is that unreasonable?

Now, Tha_Con comes in - about 21 posts later....

I pay a regular membership fee to be a part of SCCA, I auto-x every season, twice a month for 6-7 months, and I go to the Kansas Speedway, as well as the Heartland Race Track, at least 10 times a year.

I race my 1993 Honda Prelude, which I have done a lot of work on.

I also race competitively with my friend, whom drives a Subaru WRX Sti, which we both drive depending on teh event and track.

My tuning knowledge in REAL LIFE application far exceeds that of which you have in a video game.

I started out with Kart racing when I was 15, and later it developed into a love for motorsports.

you have made it clear you do not have experience aside from immature road side speeding and highway racing.



So please, for the love of god, keep your video game mentality out of this thread, we no longer want to hear your one sided opinion, when you develop a love for motorsports and cars in general, then you can contribute to the thread in a useful manner, however, this is NOT a thread about how you are tired of ayda yada, it's a thread for people to talk about small cars etc.

So either stay on topic, or keep quiet

again, false statements about me, and quite insulting of a statement as well... again - completely unfounded.... he seems still angry about a previous thread... and seems confused as to what the conversation is about... as I was simply replying to an insult, and speaking my mind about cars I do/don't like.... so I said this, maybe it was a bit much, but It's getting old having 3-5 people jumping and screaming everytime I voice my opinion, then as soon as I say something back - I'm the bad guy? as childish as it may sound, both so far HAVE started it, and if they don't start it, I won't reply, and It'll never ever happen...-period

I'm sorry, did anybody speak to you? I believe I was talking to somebody who's never raced on a track... and maybe you can't speak for everybody you don't know.... but I see your still bitter.... and arrogant because maybe you drive a car on a racetrack.... good for you!

P.S.---we were talking about GT4 you super intelligent being, so, how about you stay out of conversations you know nothing about? and how about you stop bragging about racing, until you show some kinda proof? how bout that?


on to laorin...-

lead, could you please stop it already? we're tired of the discussion. you're disrupting a good thread because of your attitude about one person and it's entirely destroying the weight and impact of John's point. whether tha_con is telling the truth or not doesn't mean anything for the rest of us so take it to a PM or you're going to run the possibility of getting banned just like our buddy RacerX. tha_con, I've got nothing against you but you don't owe him anything so stop carrying out the argument. It's just feeding the fire, which is just ruining things right here.

It was already over... and like I said earlier, if tha_con didnt take a cheap shot outta nowhere, it never would have happened... so I said this, because, I still don't know how, but it's my fault... does everyone honestly think that I was the first person here to say something bad? I can clearly very CLEARLY point otherwise...

Laorin, are you an idiot? really, are you? or did you just forget where tha_con jumped in outta hell knows nowhere and re-started an argument me and him had a month ago? you got a problem with it going off topic? complain to either somebody in power or tha_con - cause I'm not having a d@m bit of your crap

the next thing I said, was this below, going back to topic, he said something bad I said it back... could end right? no, he comes back with remarks about temper tantrums... why? because I don't like people jumping all over my back because of my opinions? or because I defend myself when people accuse me of picking fights that other people started/wanted? is that really childish?
and yet he keeps replying... they (all 3) start, I reply, back & forth... and yet I let them have the last word too.... they start an argument, and insults, and I'm a bad guy for responding? yet when they respond to my response, that's ok? I know that can't be true...


Assuming this is true (the part of Kei cars) I just lost any shred of respect I had for them... highspeed turning can make them flip? or bust a wheel? and people actually get pi$$ed when I call them complete crap? how? a 11,000$ civic or cavalier won't do any of those things, and still (especially the Honda) get great gas milage... thats just really pitiful....

But I do agree with you wholeheartedly on the sense of speed needing to be better... I personally think an actual in-car view would help a lot... since right now you can see 500 yards to each side... it's going by pretty slow..


MBAvaria30s.. who is he? why is he in it now? did he read it all? what is he talking about?
yet again, someone jumping in, talking about things he doesnt explain, reading comprehension? what was mis-comprehended?--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Reading comprehension is a sorely underrated skill, as evidenced by this thread.

Congratulations, you fail elementary grade english!

beisdes, didn't laorin.. point his finger at .. the one who caused the problem? wait no.. not in your skewed view at least. It's always someone elses fault when you get a finger pointed at you.

laroin is still not done...

Not only a temper tantrum, but an inferiority complex too it seems. Fun.


So, please elaborate this all for me, if you really think somehow this is all my fault, please explain.... I'm sure I'll get called childish for this, but I gotta see what kinda defense there is for this, or will it be silence? will everybody just hope nobody else notices? this has got to be the most byast, stupid thing I've seen yet....

P.S. your absolutly right Swift, this thread does have great potential... & I really liked it... until a bunch of people decided to be ignorant -- (see dictionary - Ignorant, uninformed unkowledgable person....) So please guys, tell me I'm wrong again... go along telling yourselves Im a bad person for replying to things you say, tell yourselves I'm a bad person, but your not for not Only replying to me, but also being the one who starts the crap...
I hope it all works out and comforts you

Maybe I WAS rude, or brash... but I never ONCE was, until AFTER somebody else treated me the same.... there's an old saying "treat others as you would have them treat you" smart guy said that, and that's exactly what I did - can anybody else say that here? not with all this double-standard hypocrisy going on they can't, not since all I did was treat them the Exact way they treated me...

 

[LeadSlead#2]

Hey MBAVARIA30S - I changed my sig, since it clearly offended you.... I'd like you to know, that it's a joke, and also I think everbody in the world knows what you said already, but thanks for telling me what my religon is and how to follow it...

P.S. I really will be too (insert smily face here)

 

[tha_con]

LeadSlead - Everyone in this thread wished to discuss how they LIKE small cars, and vintage cars, and the such.

We did not ask for your opinion on why you DON'T like them.

That is why everyone is breathing down your neck. Because you say they are crap, yet you've never driven anything like that in real life, and you don't appreciate those car's, the history they carry, and the motorsports they pertain to. This is why everyone "attacked" you.

If you can't contribute to the purpose of the thread, and all you want to do is whine about how you want a lambo or a porsche in the game, there's already 50+ other threads for that, but this is a thread about economy cars, small cars, and vintage cars.


You're welcome in advance.

 

[Swift]

Hello,Swift... I only have one question here, and that's all...
I have stopped, and I had stopped before, well before laorin started getting angry about anything, so I'll ask you to please read through all posts in this thread before making such a determination... and I'm 100% sure you'll see that not only was I back on topic before Laorin's post, but you'll also see that, when somebody decided to say this about me

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Ok, do me a favor. Don't assume I came in and said, ok, this guy must be wrong because he's the one that was reported. That's not the case at all. I read the whole thread and determined that you're taking the thread someone it was not intended to go. You're getting people upset by ragging on cars and then you wonder why?

It's actually rather obvious that you were the main catalyst for the conflict, hence you go the public warning.

 

[Azuremen]

Thank you Swift. I was wondering if anything had been reported just reading through this now.

In regard to small cars, I love them. Two of my favorite cars in the game to drive are the Autozam AZ-1 and the Suzuki Cappucino. Both can out perform many other cars when driven well. I recently used the AZ-1 at full tune on sports tires to best an NSX Type-R on El Capitain.

In real life, I've driven an okay variety of cars around. My first car was a Tercel, and its still one of the most fun cars I've owned. Light, tossable, not enough power to cause any real trouble, and rather easy to rotate when you got the hang of trail braking. I got it up to 110 MPH one day, and that was scary as hell.

In comparison, I've taken a Subaru SVX out and run it at 135 MPH chasing a guy down a back road. Felt a little more sturdy, and the acceleration was thrilling compared to the Tercel. Currently, I own an 87 MR2 with a list of mods thats huge. This light weight car is the most enjoyable car I've driven, and the most rewarding. However, the oversteer tendency combined with the speeds it can get to now, make it scary at times. My daily is a 99 Corolla, bone stock. I still enjoy driving it as well. FWD has some merits, such as the room for recovery in the vehicle. I've put both the Tercel and Corolla so sideways that the back was leading the car it seemed like (well over 90 degrees of rotation) and brought it back.

You don't need RWD and 400 HP to enjoy a car at all. My driving experiance ranges from tarmac to muddy roads, ice packs, torn up pavement on moutain passes, and everything in between. I've done a decent amount of autocross and some road racing. When I have the money, I'll start doing rally cross as well.

Small cars are awesome, enjoyable, and I wish you could use them in more races in the GT series. I remember this same issue in GT3. People bashing on things like the Vitz. I love the Vitz, very rewarding to drive well.

However, teh sense of speed does need to be fixed.

And a final note - Try lapping the nurb with a fully tuned AZ-1. That is an interesting adventure I've found. Light weight, short wheel base, MR car on a rough track with massive camber changes and what not = awesome.

 

[JohnBM01]

GTPlanet, I'm very sorry for something. I usually talked about that the Suzuki Cappucino. Well, I apologize for misspelling it. "Cappucino" is actually "Cappuccino." After all, I'm human, but not perfect. As far as this thread goes.... wow. Looked like some pretty rough stuff happened here since the last time I posted. Why don't we move on, shall we? Good.

I don't know. Has anyone driven a small car on the edge? I think if you're going to talk about small cars and stuff, you'll have to think about what makes one of these cars absoultely shine and set themselves apart from their much larger, usually more powerful counterparts. I think in Gran Turismo 3, it was quite disappointing if you're a small car fan. All you had were the Daihatsu Moves, the Suzuki Alto Works, and the Mini Cooper you have to unlock. It's much different in GT2 and GT4. GT2 had a very fun small car that I don't believe I have- the Ford Puma. It was a spunky European Ford that has its share of rallying experience. I think you race with the Citroen C3 in one of the License Tests around Laguna Seca. I tried it in "Time Trial" mode around Opera Paris. With Sport Mediums, this machine is wonderful. You can like more powerful and much faster cars, but check out one of the small cars.

I did a thread called "Small Talk" in the "Cars in General" forums, and someone said the person's favorite small car is the Mazda Miata. Just to clarify, when I'm talking about small cars, I don't mean the Miata or anything below 200hp. I'm talking about cars with small dimensions. I've seen someoen talk about car counts and someone makes a comment like "Oh, I want to see my Nissan Pao in GT4" like it's a bad idea to include such a car. So, something has to be done so that we can like racing, tuning, and hopefully appreciate a certain automobile. For me to say "appreciate" gets redundant to some people, but that's what this is all about. We, as a GT community and devoted car lovers, have to find a way to make racing these small cars fun for those who dislike them. All I want to do is ask how we can get people to like these cars instead of dissing them for lack of power and performance.

Okay, so I'll leave it up to you to offer your suggestions and comments.

 

[Laorin]

John, I honestly think the only way to really appreciate these things more is to go out and drive them in real life, to get first-hand the experience. Then it is much easier to relate to driving them in-game.

As I've said before it's just.. there's a big limitation we have with any type of videogaming system in the fact that only two senses are really exploited for the purpose of playing these. I can't stress that enough

 

[mbavaria30s]

LeadSlead#2:
You Have Been Trolled. You Have Lost. Have A Nice Day.


Anyways, to actually contribute to this amazing thread, i quite prefer a stock BMW 2002turbo to tear around. Other vintage cars I'v enjoyed putting through the paces:
Alfa Romeo Guilia Sprint GTA '65
VW Karmann Ghia Coupe '68
Mercedes 300SL Coupe '56
Daihatsu Midget '63
Lotus Europa Special '71
Lancia Stratos '73

 

[Dave A]

Guys no need to add fuel to the fire, he's been told to stop but that doesn't mean everyone else carry on or everyone else gloat about him getting a warning.

 

[mbavaria30s]

more amused than anything

oh, almost forgot this car: Citroen 2cv Type A.

 

[Disturbed07]

I'm new in here, so I don't want to get yelled at, but it seems maybe LeadSlead2 was right... people are still saying things to antagonize him.... even after all that happened...

anyway, I think the best way to get people to like slower cars, is to add some smaller, tight tracks, along with a Much greater sense of speed....
My personal favs are the BMW2002 Turbo (though it has more than 100HP), and the Lotus Elan 62'

 

[luftrofl]

I'm a fan of the smaller FF cars. Put gobs of weight in the back, and they(the FF cars) oversteer under acceleration

 

[Swift]

Guys no need to add fuel to the fire, he's been told to stop but that doesn't mean everyone else carry on or everyone else gloat about him getting a warning.

That's it right there. So just relax everyone.

 

[Laorin]

I'm new in here, so I don't want to get yelled at, but it seems maybe LeadSlead2 was right... people are still saying things to antagonize him.... even after all that happened...

anyway, I think the best way to get people to like slower cars, is to add some smaller, tight tracks, along with a Much greater sense of speed....
My personal favs are the BMW2002 Turbo (though it has more than 100HP), and the Lotus Elan 62'

I haven't said anything regarding leadslead after the mod stepped in. Just one guy did, so try not to overgeneralize. I told lead to stop derailing the thread, a mod stepped in and said "it is so", and it is done with. That's it! We're relaxed, we're having fun talking about cars now.

Now to actually talk about cars. Again.

The BMW2002 is a pretty neat car, if I'm not mistaken a friend of mine actually got that thing to hit 217 mph, 180 without nitrous. I didn't think the aerodynamics of that thing would allow it to go past 100 without heating up like a space shuttle and melting. I have taken Azure's advice and done a lap on Nurburgring in a AZ-1. Everything he said about it is absolutely right - you guys should give it a try. Team666 also listed a few very excellent cars that were a blast to drive.

 

[The Vanishing Boy]

OT-> I've been browsing few pages arond here and it was getting out of control, well at least try to have some fun here and get back to the topic. =Ease Out= =Chill Out= =Phew!=

BT-> I've been liking small cars in GT since GT1, and I have been doing wish lists since I become a member here.

-> In fact I already did drove the '74(?) Honda Life (stock) arond the nurburgring and took me 'round 15-20 min. a lap, slow but fun (some of my friends dissed at me doing that, but who cares, its fun).

-> I think these small/vintage won't be strictly on JDM cars only. I hope there will be more broader selection on some countries that has/had on the market. Like the Daewoo/Chevrolet Matiz from Korea, Kia Pride CD5 on 3rd world countries, and those old school Ford Fietas from Europe. (:

 

[tha_con]

Everyone shut up about LeadSlead, jesus, just let it go, we're all finished, no need to act like children and "be right" or "show the light". We stopped, ignore posts that pertain to it.


Honda Beat > * lol.

 

[Disturbed07]

I haven't said anything regarding leadslead after the mod stepped in. Just one guy did, so try not to overgeneralize. I told lead to stop derailing the thread, a mod stepped in and said "it is so", and it is done with. That's it! We're relaxed, we're having fun talking about cars now.

Now to actually talk about cars. Again.

The BMW2002 is a pretty neat car, if I'm not mistaken a friend of mine actually got that thing to hit 217 mph, 180 without nitrous. I didn't think the aerodynamics of that thing would allow it to go past 100 without heating up like a space shuttle and melting. I have taken Azure's advice and done a lap on Nurburgring in a AZ-1. Everything he said about it is absolutely right - you guys should give it a try. Team666 also listed a few very excellent cars that were a blast to drive.

and now you have, so stop doing what you accused other people (you know who) stop throwing temper tantrums and acting like a child!

Somebody please PM me when this thread is Actually back on topic, cause I'd like to see where it goes then

 

[JohnBM01]

I was trying to generate a report on cars I used to try to see how they perform. Here are some highlights of my drivng/racing yesterday:

* Mazda AZ-1 at New York
COMMENTS: fun to slide out in corners; has great speed for a Kei.

* Honda Life Step Van at Deep Forest
COMMENTS: it has a top speed of about 63 or 74 mph. Definately not a sports car, but who cares? While I'm trying to hot rod my Honda Odyssey, it was interesting to finally see how this car actually performs.

* Daihatsu Midget (1960s) at Twin Ring Motegi - East Short Course
COMMENTS: a three-wheel truck. Obviously, the sense of this Special Car isn't seriously fast, but good luck trying to get your front tire to graze some curb if you have to.

* Suzuki Cappuccino at Clubman State Route 5
COMMENTS: this is as much of a front/rear sports car as your Dodge Viper, Corvette C5, or even a TVR Cerbera Speed 12. Maybe not as powerful or as fast, but this is a Kei you can have fun with. Who says Kei cars can't be sports cars? This car is popular for a reason.

GTPlanet, some of you talk about tracks being able to support these cars without fail. So, are there any tracks that would benefit these automobiles? Or do you think PD should come up with some fantasy race courses to better suit these cars? In Gran Turismo 2, there were short configuration races for Rome and Seattle. I even remember doing some Kei car racing in GT2 with my Mugen Beat at Seattle. From a track standpoint, are there enough tracks to support these machines?

Carry on, GTPlanet!

 

[Mt. Lynx]

Well, there are short versions of a lot of tracks in GT4, but I don´t really fancy those. The Autumn ring short is too easy , Suzuka east is somewhat fun, but for these cars, not bumpy enough. I actually prefer the ring for these cars. Ok, some of´em takes 15 minutes or more to clear one lap, but to me, that doesn´t matter one bit! El Capitan or Deep Forest are also good tracks for kei type cars, but lets face it, the ring is supreme to all other tracks in terms of challange! And N2 tyres on a stock Citroën C3 or Ford Ka is almost dreamlike in terms of driveability!

Some of the smaller cars are very boring around the ring though, especially the Daihatsu Move models, as they are too weak, and too unbalanced to actually be fun, while other cars in same modelrange can be really fun, simply because they are better builds. Like Ford Ka, Citroën C3, Daihatsu Sirion X4, Volkswagen Beetle, Fiat Panda and so on. I have to add that the Move models are by far the most boring cars I´ve driven in GT4, and I´ve driven the CV2 and the ´63 Midget around the ring, so that´s saying alot.

 

[Laorin]

Agreed. I have a hard time racing other tracks now, the ring has spoiled me.

And disturbed, please make sense next time you try to insult someone when you have no idea what you're talking about.

 

[tha_con]

Agreed. I have a hard time racing other tracks now, the ring has spoiled me.

And disturbed, please make sense next time you try to insult someone when you have no idea what you're talking about.

Just drop it, if it bothers you ignore it. That is all.


As for cars, I really enjoy driving stock Mini's around, I love it, lol. Especially on the 'nurb. It's just so fun to me, to push it out as hard as I can.

 

[Laorin]

Yeah you definitely don't get much of a sense of the jitters with them. There's quite a few sections of the nurb that scare the beans out of me even in a 250hp car.

 

[Disturbed07]

I don't know if these count for small cars or not, but I'd like to see some base model Camry's, Corolla's, Civic's, Sunfire's, Cavalier's, Golf's, Jetta's, and cars like these with 110-200 hp... this is where I have lots of fun. All can always reach a significant speed, and are generally light, with soft suspensions, making it an extreme challange to get perfect weight transfer, etc

 

[JohnBM01]

Actually, I WOULDN'T count these as small cars. They are about in the same range as the Honda Integra/Acura RSX, Ford Focus, most of the ones you'll probably see as Touring Cars at best. We're on to the topic of small cars like most Daihatsus, Minis, a host of other Kei cars, and stuff like that.

Let me offer a little different perspective. If you have played "ToCA Race Driver 2," have you raced GT Lights yet? These 98hp race cars are fun to drive! Believe it or not, Global GT Lights is an actual series. If you ever see the race cars, they are seem to fall into the category of low-horsepowered, small-dimension automobiles (the target for 1/2 of this thread). I figured that if regular small car automobiles aren't really fun, maybe some racing machines both production-based and spec cars should be a welcomed idea for getting some people to like smaller cars more.

Did you know that a few years ago, a Toyota Prius was one of the first electric cars to either finish or complete a rally event? I've heard of small cars being used in rally races. How do these tiny terrors fair off-road and on tarmac rallies? Are there any in GT4 that you may recommend for small car rally-goers?

http://www.globalgtlights.co.uk
That is the Global GT Lights website, by the way.