Racing Modifications in GT5 - Discuss and Review

My views are simple.

When it comes to racing, you don't see too many 100 percent stock vehicles.


So why does the GT series go from all out professional racing and ignore the clubsport grand touring and go straight for "Car and Driver Review:The game"?

The clubsport feeling is lost. You can no longer take your 100 percent stock vehicle, race it , slowly add parts to it, and eventually completely redo it into a semiprofessional race car.........

Oh yes...you can "slowly add parts it" but you tell me ONE car that races pro/semipro that looks 100 percent stock but in actuality is a full on race car?
Because I can tell you right now that anyone who took a 30k (american dollars)car, and put 180k into has sponsors............

On the other hand, I do NOT want to see a "invader" kit on a race car. It's total rice crap. With that being said, if you have a 450 HP Integra it's going to have a front and rear facia that adds downforce........so some conservative looking bodymods are going to find their way onto the car if you fully race prep it.

Which is why I think racing modifications should be brought back. With that being said, I understand that PD just cannot model 25 versions of all 700+ plus cars so that they look different every time you add a muffler.......it just cannot be done man-hours wise. It was said by KY that it takes for GT4 about 1 month for one person to build a car from nothing to finished. So obviously spending 17,500 months on models is not really acceptable. (700cars X 25 models per car=17,500 months of modeling, which is about 1400 years for one person to model all the cars......JUST MODEL THEM). Now of course, I'm just pulling the 25 model thing out as an example but you can understand my point.

So comprimise. Do 2 models. One model is the stock model. The other is the racing modified model. Then for the racing modded model, they can have like 1 or 2 textures/skins for the paint scheme/sponser decals. Like they did with GT1. They could even save time on modeling the racing model by copying the basic stock model and just changing a few parts of it to create the visual look. It'll go faster because the model is for the most part already created. It'll save about 70 percent man hours created the race models than having to build them from scratch.
700 cars x 2 models. One model takes 100 percent of model time...or 1 month. The racing modded one takes 30 percent of model time. or 10 days.
So 700 models would take 700 months, or 58 Years.
and 700 race models would take 700months times .33= 231 months, or about 19 years.
So all the models would then take 77 man years.
That's quite acceptable. That places it to be about 19 modelers on staff for 4 years, which is the time between GT3 and GT4, so that places it just right.

PERSONALLY, I would rather see 500 cars each with a racing modification model that has 2 paint schemes available (like gt1) than have 800+ cars.........600 of which still look bone stock after putting 200k dollars into them


Just my 2 cents.




EDIT: When I first posted, I was REALLY REALLY tired. I did something really stupid with my math........so I fixed it now that I'm rested. lol.

https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/showthread.php?t=19705&page=57


see post 1133 on above link
How about the Goat for a race modification in GT8

CNG

Customization: More customization, including rim size, wings from different cars (Example: Nissan Skyline GT-R R32 wing on the Nissan Skyline Type-M R32,) Body kits from other cars, with exceptions of cars like the R92CP, etc.

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I believe that there should be more customization with looks. If we had racing modifications in GT5, they will be selling so many copies, especially when PS3 prices go down. There should be different wings, rather than wierd hideous wings that doesn't match any cars curves. I think it would be funny to have a TVR Speed 12 with Nissan Skyline headlights and tail lights, but that's not what I'm talking about. I'm talking about bumpers, rather than front and rear ends. (EDIT: That doesn't sound right.)

I personally would drive a Mustang SVT Cobra with a Subaru Impreza WRZ STi wing at the back, as well as a TVR Tuscan Speed 6 with a Toyota Supra RZ front, side, and rear bumpers and Toyota Supra RZ wing. (With the original lights and exhaust of course.)

Your problem there is not only that thoes body parts are not interchangable from car to car, but also that neither TVR nor Toyota would allow you to interchange parts between the different manufacturers. Nissan Skyline headlights will not go onto a TVR Speed 12, infact the only way to modify a Speed 12's bodywork is to eaither use parts of the GT race programme or to create your own parts from custom moulds, something that I don't think is feasible in a game.

I'm all up for customising the cars bodywork, but keep a Tuscan a Tuscan and a Skyline a Skyline etc. I'd like to see a mod to widen a cars track as well as add the splitters and wings and underbody aerodynamics. What I'd like to see also is the ability to choose a front bumper and splitter independently of each other. In Forza 2 you can choose the Forza front bumper which is basically the stock bumper with a splitter attached, I'd like to be able to attach that splitter to other bumpers as well, not just the stock one.

I thin a wider variety of wings would be a very welcome addition, if they made as many as they could then I might not end up just using the same one for 90% of my cars. Also include the ability to paint the wing, at least to match it to the cars bodywork. One thing a lot of games seem to forget is that you can paint carbon fiber. In Forza you can install a carbon wing, and on som cars a carbon bonnet which is lighter than the rest, but you can't paint it, I don't want every car to have a black wing and bonnet. But that said I'm mostly happy with how Forza 2 has worked out, I'm just always looking for improvments.

One thing I'd perhaps like to see is the ability to pipe air from intake to various parts of the car. Say you add a new front facia that has an extra two intakes at the side, you can then choose to pipe that air to the brakes, radiator, etc or just leave them free. It'd be quite technical but perhaps the game could include a wind tunnel simulation so you caould see where the air get's to and whee it doesn't both in setting up your cars aerodynamics and in cooling parts of the car down that get hot or feeding air to parts that requite it. I wouldn't say this level of tuning and customising should be something you'd have to do, but it's an extra level for thoes that would do it anyway.

I've been playing EA Sports' "NASCAR 07" on my PS2. The game has a facility which allows you to make your own stock car or stock truck. Since there isn't much to diffrentiate design among most stock machines, you are given the opportunity to paint up your race car or truck the way you see fit. Let me put Racing Modifications into perspective.

Racing Modifications in Perspective: NASCAR 07

--- The Process ---
You are given four cars for you to customize in NASCAR 07. You can make a custom car for Whelen Modified, Craftsman Truck, Busch, and Nextel Cup. You can make only one for each class of racing, and you have no teammates. I can't really share any pictures of cars I've created, so I'll leave it at that. I'm going to use the Craftsman Truck custom machine to go through the process, since I don't want to mess up any of the other cars in my Custom Car Garage. Here's the process.

Go to "My NASCAR." * You begin the process by picking between four different schemes. After looking into this, you can actually take blank cars for the four classes of competition and come up with four different schemes for you to use. * After selecting a scheme, you are presented with three menus entitled "Graphics," "Paint Colors," and "Sponsors." The Graphics menu allows you to change the whole exterior of the car. You select the basic aspects of the car ranging from manufacturers to a certain paintscheme you watn to go with. The Paint Scheme will all be in dark gray. But don't worry- you'll modify your dream stock car later. The various paint schemes allows you to come up with a basic car design that you will later modify in full color. Select a driver number. Unfortunately, your driver number will be between 100 and 199. The driver number I normally use in some of my other games is #25. So I had to go with 125. Change the style of the number after picking a number. This will show the letter in different ways. The decals are all your contingency sponsors ususally placed to the left of the driver side area and to the right of the passenger side area. You can choose between None and Full. *PAINT COLORS* After setting the base line for your paint scheme, you are now able to color up the various hot spots of your stock car or truck. The basic sections you should be concerned with are the colors under Primary, Highlight, and Extra. Secondary and Detail are just small outlinings of the car. Pick a color by using the D-Pad or the left analog stick once you select a hot spot to modify. Then, tilt the right analog stick to select the brightness of the color. Since I like a combination of blue and gold, I would paint my car with a rich shade for the Primary color, and a brighter blue color for the other color. Not all paint styles work the same. Be sure to mix and match styles to look for the paint scheme that looks best for your car. *SPONSORS* NASCAR (or any motorsport for that matter) can't live without sponsors. The sponsors menu allows you to put logos on your car from five different hot spots. Your five hot spots consist of Primary, Secondary, Associate, Team, and Driver areas. Your primary sponsor is that huge sponsor up front. Your secondary sponsor will be the sponsor on the trunk/boot of the car and between both of the rear headlights. The Associate sponsor will occupy the space basically above the rear tires. Your Team sponsor will show up on the rear quarter panels. And finally, the Driver sponsor will be on the sides of your car ahead of your rear tires. And that's all it takes to modify your race car. The colors you choose will also affect your team colors. Again, play around with these options to your delight.

As a note on sponsors, you have a variety of sponsors to choose from. You have real sponsors to choose from including Aaron's Rental, Kroger, Craftsman, Safety-Kleen, Advance Auto Parts, Carquest, and more. You also have fictional sponors including Whoa Nelly Brakes, B4 It Breaks Car Parts, Broken Heart, Bubba's Hubcaps, Dr. Cranium's Helmets, and more.

--- Elements to Derive ---
Granted the cars in this game are all NASCAR stock cars, there are elements to take away in terms of modifying and painting cars. There are pre-made paintschemes available to be modified at will. This is a step in the right direction to compliment GT fans who aren't good artists. Some of the best samples to take are usually from some of the lesser teams who don't have bigtime sponsorship. A similar model for GT5 would have to be a painting model which isn't seriously exclusive to a certain type of racing. For example, I wouldn't adorn a Kei car with the same kind of livery as the 1998 Nissan R390 GT1 Race Car. I would if I could, but it would be a bit challenging to try to transfer paint schemes as such. The notion of sponsorship for cars makes it so that you could actually have sponsors adorned on certan parts of the car. Even "Need for Speed: Carbon" allowed you to put on decals of your car's manufacturer. PD would need to define hot spots for each car that is eligible for modification. Cars eligible for modification should include street cars, (maybe) concept cars, and unpainted race cars. One is actually able to dress up cars with sponsorship. I'm going to come up with something in regards to sponsorship someday. PD will need to define parts of the car eligible for painting. They'd need to define the following for automobiles:

* front hood
* side doors
* trunk/boot lid for traditional vehicles, truck bed for pickup trucks (tonneau cover would be nice); and the top rear portion of SUVs, station wagons/estate cars, and hatchbacks
* panel above rear tires
* panel above front tires
* driver-side and doors passenger-side doors
* sun visor area
* trunk/boot area (area between the rear headlights)
* rear windshield (except for most mid-engined cars)
* rear bumper
* other parts I may have forgotten

NASCAR 07 has a pretty good system to put Racing Modifications into perspective.

-end


Basic painting of cars can just entail areas for the car maker to be present, usually on the front hood, rear bumper, panels above the rear tires, and across the sun visor. The doors can feature a simple driver plate to be marked with the number of choice, just like with the racing bikes in Tourist Trophy. I think all cars should come with racing plates once you buy/win a car. Why then? It's because the car is now yours. You're free to paint it up with a driver number and almost any sort of adornments. I need to make a diagram to better display what it is I'm actually talking about. Either that, or a pretty good car blueprint to explain further what I'm talking about.

Until then, you're free to carry on.

I've created two videos on YouTube. The specific one here is my video look at Racing Modifications and other nuances of it. Have a look:


Link: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BxIl4LX4aDY

It's a detailed demo of some of the different modification options. Somene noted they'd rather see just stock cars rather than your own racing machines on YouTube. Have a good look.

As usuall John..Great posts..👍👍

I agree with everything you stated and to add a bit more...How about have 'epic drops' (mmorpg talk there) in regards to rare parts,kits,engines and even rare cars as 'very occasional' prizes for certain achievements.

So these prizes only 'drop' as a rare occurence.
Could add some 'mystery' to the pre-determined prizes.

nice thread...

all that i hope is really to see with my eyes tuned parts added on car..
piece by piece modifications...
and for paintschemes, i don't like such a paint like FM2, it's to much, with the risk to see stupid car in online race..
i would want something easier, more realistic, for example the possibility to put only brand sticker into the car...
a beautiful options would be this: when you go to buy a part of tuning, ex a muffler in HKS brand, would be nice if you'll obtain also the sticker of HKS to put in your car after as succeed in reality..

It wouldnt be more realistic with only brand stickers, i think it would be the complete opposite and you would only see cars full with stickers....
And if you race against real car and racing fans (like the guys here) you would see proper designs for sure. Your last sentence is a great idea though.

Good idea John, I agree with you GT5 must have Racing Modifications:

Carbon parts (hood, body etc ...)
Brakes
Exhaust
Engine swap
etc ...

The Racing Modifications will make the game very competitive no doubt, but if that is possible in all cars of the game I think Polyphony Digital will take an eternity to end the game.

Ask people whos topics i post on at GTPlanet and they will say i always post about painting / mods. Lets hope we can make cars like the 'Concept by GT' cars but with even more detail

-ultraflow-

The Racing Modifications will make the game very competitive no doubt /snip

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Not really. Adding modifications will make the cars more diversificated but definely not make it more competitive.

If you want the most competitive and closest possible racing, a car that cannot be mofidied in any way (PPs or setup) would be more suited. Sure with modifications you will be able to make car classes but each car will have its advantages and disadvantages.

For example a 800HP Toyota Supra would have the top over a 600HP Skyline on a straight line but the Skyline would probably handle better in curves. If both cars were 600HP Skylines then only the driver's skills and experience would affect the result of the race and not the modifications he made to his car.

Anyway it's my opinion... 👍

Riders Motion

Not really. Adding modifications will make the cars more diversificated but definely not make it more competitive.

If you want the most competitive and closest possible racing, a car that cannot be mofidied in any way (PPs or setup) would be more suited. Sure with modifications you will be able to make car classes but each car will have its advantages and disadvantages.

For example a 800HP Toyota Supra would have the top over a 600HP Skyline on a straight line but the Skyline would probably handle better in curves. If both cars were 600HP Skylines then only the driver's skills and experience would affect the result of the race and not the modifications he made to his car.

Anyway it's my opinion... 👍

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I pretty much agree with you. PP should be judged on brakes, drivetrain etc.

Don't you think if PD works on Racing mods for mostly or every car in the game, it's just going to take quite some time just to complete that task? Don't you think they were working on that return, but they just found it a long time task and can't find an accomplishment for them?

Racing Mods in GT5 would be a welcome return, and judging by how long that it is 'taking' for KY to do the game, it would be more than a possibility. I'm still curious as to why it was scrapped in GT3.

It was scrapped because of time, to create a race mod meant creating a second car model for each car and they just didn't have time. It looks like we'll get custom body mods in GT5, probably not for every car though.

Dave A

It was scrapped because of time, to create a race mod meant creating a second car model for each car and they just didn't have time. It looks like we'll get custom body mods in GT5, probably not for every car though.

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I Believe some cars will have Bodykits, Even Complete/Wide Bodykits, but other cars may have something like CF Pieces, hood clips, splitters, canards, spoilers and rear diffusers.

So being more specific, cars like RX-7, Silvia, Civic, Supra, Skyline, Mustang, Corvette, Lotus may have different bodykits, but mostly all cars should have basic aerodynamic Bolt-ons plus CF parts.

To me that sounds perfect:tup:

So Aerodynamic Bolt Ons + Racing Rims and at least some Decals is like a Private Racing car should look Instead of a Completely stock vehicle

Just the same mods as before but show parts on car with exhaust, intercooler whatever. That would suit me fine, but bodykits that work and not just for looks, better selection of wheels would be handy too. That would be good enough for me.

Also interior modifications would be great. Gauges, roll cage, and when you perform weight reduction to actually show the interior stripped, modified dash for racing with all the buttons and switches whatever.

one thing PD should consider are the steering wheels... if there are going to be "Race Mods" then it would be pretty lame to see the rollcage, racing dials, stripped interior but a stock wheel... 👎

like i said before... if Kaz is the "perfectionist"... if they aren't going to do mods with full force, they should leave it out of the game completely and just let us put on some rims and performance mods...

Riders Motion

(edit) Adding modifications will make the cars more diversificated but definely not make it more competitive.

If you want the most competitive and closest possible racing, a car that cannot be mofidied in any way (PPs or setup) would be more suited. Sure with modifications you will be able to make car classes but each car will have its advantages and disadvantages.

For example a 800HP Toyota Supra would have the top over a 600HP Skyline on a straight line but the Skyline would probably handle better in curves. If both cars were 600HP Skylines then only the driver's skills and experience would affect the result of the race and not the modifications he made to his car.

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I have some sympathy for the single make race view, but at the same time, most racing fans don't like it as much as races involving different makes. Their favorite driver will race in a certain car, and they enjoy the rivalry involved with these different race cars.

The poster you quoted didn't really make his point properly. Having race modification for many of the sports cars won't make racing more competitive, but it will make it more involving and interesting. There's always something very satisfying in games like Forza in which you can take a sports car, modify it to racing spec, slap some layers of paint and decals on it and create a race car of your very own. Forza does go a bit far with that, because in the strictest sense, what you're creating is a tuner car with some racing parts, and some of them perform about as well as seriously modified vehicles like Super GTs and DTMs, or even racing prototypes. Or better.

This can be done right. A proper Performance Point system can be designed so that you can take several different cars, mod them up to the same PP number, and get similar lap times. And I like the idea of involving the skill of the gamer in designing and tuning a car they "made," and competing fairly against other car moders to see how well their efforts work out.

Gran Turismo 1 and 2 did it right, in that you had to spend quite a bit to purchase upgrade parts for your car, and then go through a three stage modification process to create a race car. I'm really, really hoping that this returns in GT5, and that we can apply our own liveries to these cars, and paint over existing race cars too. If custom liveries aren't in GT5, that's going to be a big dagger wound in the whole thing. Like I said several times, you're going to have people fighting over which cars are their "official" car, and I can see a lot of people not even messing with it, which is going to suck some life from any kind of online racing community.

I think there should be levels of aerodynamic kits. A basic aerodynamic kit of a small spoiler and a front lip may be available for c.750-1,000 Cr. Top-of-the range aero kits like those of touring cars should cost c.15,000-20,000 Cr.

They need to make air and fuel change the performance of the car. I.E. Even different track temps change the cars performance. As well as custom grind cams, heads, valves, etc. This all needs to be adjustable in GT5. This would really broaden the range of modification. Instead of just Buying Part A and that increase HP by "X" amount. There needs to be more fine tuning. Bolting on parts that make power was nice in previous GT's but it needs to be stepped up a bit now.

I definitely want to be able to make my car look like a race car in GT5.

I'm tired of having cars with 500 hp, which seems to be stock. My garage in GT4 is just filled with alot of sleepers

Btw, can someone explain/show me how the car modifications looked in GT2.

It was like a weight reduction. When you added it, the car had spoilers and bodykits. Thats all but it was a very cool feature and i rally missed it.

Weight Reduction:
- STAGE 1
Lightens the vehicle by removing unnecessary parts and relacing
others with parts made of lightweight-material. The numerous
advantages of a lighter car include enchanced acceleration
performance, improved cornering and braking, and better tire
durability.

- STAGE 2
Lightens the vehicle more by removing more parts and/or replacing
more with lighter materials.

- STAGE 3
Takes Stage 2 lightening a step further.

Racing Car Modification:
Upgrades the car's materials and shape, changes the coloring, and adds
aerodynamic parts, which adds downforce to the vehicle. Adjusting the
front and rear downforce makes it possible to change the vehicle balance
in the high-speed range.
source

Edit
Ace i saw my mistake. I was faster. That was long Time ago...
\/

Smoothherb

It was the 3rd weight reduction. When you added it, the car had spoilers and bodykits. Thats all but it was a very cool feature and i rally missed it.

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No, it was an extra upgrade, weight reduction 1, 2 & 3 were needed. 8)

EDIT:

Great thread John!

After reading many posts, I had an idea that could make things simple, yet interesting, for everyone: make race modifications by groups, like FIA regulations.

The Cracker write something the way I think, but my ideas goes a little further. Almost like you said about Sports Car GT (great game, by the way, for the possibility to upgrade a car to the next class!).

The modifications would be divided in four groups:
N group, A group, B group and Tuning. Not all cars would have the possibility to be modified into all groups. Would have to respect the car history (for example, you could not modify a Ginetta G4 into B group or Tuning, as it is anachronic, but you could make it a N group or A group).

The tuning modifications would be kinda free (like it is in the real world. If you want to buy a Civic and throw a HUGE turbo in, go ahead, is you car). But, in order to participate in the Tuning events, your tuning would have to respect the regulations on that event.

Now, back to the topic: Racing Modifications.

You would have the possibility to buy a group package, in the car's factory's Tune Shop, for each group. If you buy a closed package, would be chaper than buy all the pieces separatelly to build that package (like buying a factory modified racing car). But, you would have to race with the factory paintjob (like, buying a N group package to a Mitsubishi Lancer Evo IV would have the Rallyart paintjob). BUT, if you choose to modify a car by yourself, respecting the regulations, you would have the possibility to make your own paintjob (livery editor, anyone?). So, on the Tune Shop, on each category (Engine, Suspension, Brakes...), you would have the possibility to buy the pieces for you car. On the piece description, would say to what regulation that piece would fit (like: N group camshaft, A group camshaft...). And, if you buy just one piece for the next group, your car imediatelly upgrade to that group (lets say you have the N group Lancer from above and you buy a set of R3 slick tires, your car now is an A group).

A small description on the groups:

The N group: real light and very restrictive modifications. Like: racing suspensions and wheels, sports tires and light engine tuning. No aero modifications, but the car would show the racing tow hook, hood and trunk pins, polycarbonate side windows, rollcage, racing seats, emergency electric/fuel cut-off and fire extinguisher switch.

The A group: heavy, but still restrictive modifications. Like: racing adjustable suspensions, heavy engine tuning, racing brakes, racing transmissions, adjustable gearboxes, etc... And aero modifications! Would show all the N group modifications, plus rear and front adjustable wings, light over-fenders, largers bumpers with large air caption, fiber-glass or carbon-fiber panels, etc...

The B group: the sky is the limit (or, your pocket...): in the B group you would have the chance to fully modify the car. All the Tune Shops modifications availables! The car visual would be totally changed (like, the 70s / 80s B group rally and circuit cars, DTM cars, JGTC cars, etc...). Real monsters could be created! Ridiculously large widebody, huge front and rear wings, rear air diffuser, flat bottom, hood air intakes, etc...

Now, to make things a little more interesting, it could have a performance matching system. Like, an A group medium sedan would be able to run against a N group GT. Like, an A group BMW 330ci running against a N group Ferrari F430. Of course, the cars would have be divided into several classes in order to make this work fine. Like, a Class 1 (kei cars. Ex: Daihatsu Cuore) A group car could run against a Class 2 (small hatchs. Ex: Peugeot 106) N group cars. Or Class 1 B group car could run against a Class 3 (medium hatchs. Ex: Peugeot 206) N group cars.

Just an idea...

Jeanr, I have an idea almost exactly the same, which has been fermenting in my head for almost five years now. I want Gran Turismo to include a Career Mode, in which you select a car to compete in something like America's SCCA, which has various leagues and levels of racing from enthusiasts to professionals with sponsors. This would be in addition to Arcade and GT Mode, and any Season and Online Modes. You would make your way through some level of racing with a chosen car you'd upgrade to meet the racing specs, with the option of livery painting and applying decals of any sponsors, as well as your car's number. You would have to upgrade the car to meet not only horsepower limitations but Performance Points restrictions too, which means the PP system would have to be rather precisely defined and meaningful. In other words, two similar cars with the same PP number should have fairly similar lap times.

You'd race through a season of some reasonable length for a championship title.
Through all of this, the game will keep track of your stats, as well as those of your competitors, bots with certain names, personalities and racing styles. Through the season, you'll be able to examine your stats as well as those of your competitors, check over telemetry from past races and consider tuning and strategies, watch replays, take photos, etc. Winning the title, you could keep going in this junior league system or advance to serious professional racing leagues, such as BTCC, DTM, WRC or similar. You'd buy a race car and apply a custom livery to it, or pick one from a series of pre-made templates, with your decals and racing badges placed, and then go at it for a season for that championship. Upon winning that season, you could return, or try another league, buying another race car and beginning the whole process over.

If GT5 had something like this, I'd never stop playing it, until GT6 came along to improve it. Having a car I chose or built up in a Racing Modification, meeting racing league restrictions and giving it my own custom livery is what I've been dreaming of in Gran Turismo since I got GT4 in 2005.

Jeanr

A small description on the groups:

The N group: real light and very restrictive modifications. Like: racing suspensions and wheels, sports tires and light engine tuning. No aero modifications, but the car would show the racing tow hook, hood and trunk pins, polycarbonate side windows, rollcage, racing seats, emergency electric/fuel cut-off and fire extinguisher switch.

The A group: heavy, but still restrictive modifications. Like: racing adjustable suspensions, heavy engine tuning, racing brakes, racing transmissions, adjustable gearboxes, etc... And aero modifications! Would show all the N group modifications, plus rear and front adjustable wings, light over-fenders, largers bumpers with large air caption, fiber-glass or carbon-fiber panels, etc...

The B group: the sky is the limit (or, your pocket...): in the B group you would have the chance to fully modify the car. All the Tune Shops modifications availables! The car visual would be totally changed (like, the 70s / 80s B group rally and circuit cars, DTM cars, JGTC cars, etc...). Real monsters could be created! Ridiculously large widebody, huge front and rear wings, rear air diffuser, flat bottom, hood air intakes, etc...

Now, to make things a little more interesting, it could have a performance matching system. Like, an A group medium sedan would be able to run against a N group GT. Like, an A group BMW 330ci running against a N group Ferrari F430. Of course, the cars would have be divided into several classes in order to make this work fine. Like, a Class 1 (kei cars. Ex: Daihatsu Cuore) A group car could run against a Class 2 (small hatchs. Ex: Peugeot 106) N group cars. Or Class 1 B group car could run against a Class 3 (medium hatchs. Ex: Peugeot 206) N group cars.

Just an idea...

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Might be good for instance to build your own wrc spec car ie:- 300hp 4x4 stripped out etc etc but the differences would be how you got the car to 300hp like either a bigger turbo + intercooler or if its NA profiled cams, gas flowed head etc etc.... i can't wait to see!!!

Here we go Tenacius D! Thats is pretty much what I'm talking about! I see a lot of people here with the same basic idea, only in different explanations: the possibility to tune your car inside some restricted regulations to participate in events with cars modified the same way (not only online, but, in the GT Mode also!!!). And not only the perfomance would be modified, but the car visual would match his performance. So, a lightly tuned car have a lightly visual modifcation. But a very hard tuned car have a visual that matches his performance. Not only aero parts changed but also the livery!

GT_lee, what you said is pretty much what happens on Forza. It is a great idea, but, if you look into Forza foruns, you will se a lot of people complaining that this system makes cars performance away too diferent. Lets take your example: a 300hp turbo car would have a very diferent performance than a 300hp NA car. Unless, the events filter or the Performance Points (like Tenacious D said), could even the cars performance, independent the way they were modified. Anyway, I cant say if the system is no good or if were not well made... (in Forza case)

But, I really hope that Polyphony could read this and take some ideas! I would love to see all the information generated in this thread taked in to improove our gameplay!!!

Riders Motion

Not really. Adding modifications will make the cars more diversificated but definely not make it more competitive.

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wow!!!!!!!!!!1

sorry, that's all I can say.