Restoring My Beliefs

McLaren · May 6, 2006

Mods, please move to the correct forum if necessary. Thank you.

Well, Wednesday night, I went out to the Church here to meet up with my friend. I had promised her that I would at least look into Christianity, and keep an open mind.

Well, we go and I meet her sister and her friends, exchange our greetings, and after a while, head into the main audatorium.

There, I stand with her, and keep an open mind to the songs and prayers. But only then when the teacher on stage starts to talk does my beliefs become restored.

You see, after chatting with her, I actually thought about going back and realizing that being an Athiest wasn't too important. But when the teacher started rehearsing and I quote, "...But I know some of you here tonight, are not true believers, and when you reach the Gates of Heaven, Jesus and God will reject you..." He got a little more fancy with his words, but his basic sayings were if you don't believe you won't go to heaven which is the typical Christian attitude.

The teacher goes on to report that 96% of their attendes left after graduating from high school. Though he did not say it out clearly, he was basically saying most or all of them were not believers to begin with. Of course, this man obviously did not realize, his church is not the only church in the world, people do go to colleges in other states and can not come to Texas every Wednesday and go back, and people can be Christian without going to church.

Although I wanted to go up and tell this man what he is saying is wrong, and a very incorrect way to voice his beliefs, I decided to avoid embarrasing those I was with, and I'm sure many of you will agree.

Afterwords, I did voice my concerns with her, and told her that man restore my beliefs. But not in Christianity, instead in Atheism. She said however, that there are different teachers, and I will be going back next Wednesday, and hopefully seeing if the views of that church have changed.

I guess I can thank you for reading my rant. This is one reason I applaud GTPlanet as it is a way to help relief stress. Please feel free to voice your opinions.

Kylehnat · May 6, 2006

I know exactly what you're talking about, as I've been in several situations like that. It's best just to ignore it.

One of the reasons that I reject religion is because of people like that guy. Christianity teaches tolerance and forgiveness, but many so-called Christians are only tolerant and forgiving of other Christians, and condemning of everyone else. Fortunately, most of my Christian friends are smart enough to respect my beliefs (or lack thereof).

This site was posted somewhere else on these boards, and I found it to be a nice atheist haven. http://www.ethicalatheist.com. There's some funny articles there.

Event · May 6, 2006

One night, me and my friends got into a 5 hours long discussion about religion. We had 4 different views in the room. One protestant, one roman-catholic, one person who can't decide, and one atheist (me). I won't go into what we discussed, but it was alot, until the wee hours of the night. At the end of it all, I was unsure about what I believed in. I've never read the bible, but from what I hear is that it's quite a convincing book.

Long story short, I've been rethinking my beliefs. The only hole in what I believe in is death. To be honest, I am scared of it. I don't know what is going to happen when I die, but all I know is I DONT want to find out... That is one reason that have been thinking of changing what I believe in, since according to the bible, and God, I can still get into heaven yet. I know this kind of sounds stupid, but, I would like to believe in some sort of life after death, because eternal darkness is scary. Switching to the christian faith will give me something more to believe in, maybe giving me some inner peace, which I lack of recent.

Keef · May 6, 2006

I am an agnostic athiest since I now know what it is from the evolution, err, creation vs. evolution thread. And, like Event, and probably most athiests, I have no explanation for what happens when you die. But I don't try to come up with an explantion, especially since it can't be proved, so I just don't think about it. I'm not necessarily afraid of death, especially when I'm driving, rather, racing, because I know something bad could happen, but I'm really into it so I don't care.
And, McLaren, take this with a grain of salt, but I think you cannot be a true Christian without going to church, because one of the most prevalent ideals in Christianity is that you must throw away your MsDonald's allowance every week into a hat at church so the pastor can "donate" it to his favorite "charity", namely a 50 foot tall bust of Jesus right next to the church which looks like something out of Arabian Nights; at least that was the case with a church just south of my city, Dayton, Ohio.
So religion may give me some temporary answers to fulfill my curiosities, but it'll also empty my pockets, and money is more important. I also don't want to turn into an asshole. I say that because most religious kids at my school are easily offended by the dumvest of things and they can't seem to take a god joke or two, whereas I'm hardly offended by anything. I don't complain, they do, and I don't like complaining because it makes me complain. I'd rather not complain. Get my drift?

Delirious · May 6, 2006

If you want to spend some time educating yourself, study how the Bible came to be what it is today, from the original autographs to the manuscripts to english today.

I even say study BOTH sides, come to your own conclusion, but only come to that conclusion with knowing 100% which side is correct.

Because if the Bible is right, and it is 100% inspired of God...some of us are in some real trouble.

McLaren · May 6, 2006

Delirious XVII
If you want to spend some time educating yourself, study how the Bible came to be what it is today, from the original autographs to the manuscripts to english today.

I even say study BOTH sides, come to your own conclusion, but only come to that conclusion with knowing 100% which side is correct.

Because if the Bible is right, and it is 100% inspired of God...some of us are in some real trouble.

But isn't there something in the Bible that also relates or is similiar to "You will not spread beliefs?" or something close to that?

How do Christians expect to educate people when they go around saying "You are going to hell if you don't believe"?

Or is the whole religon these days based around scaring people into it?

Delirious · May 6, 2006

I just take the Bible for what it says...look up John 3:18 and make up your own decision.

"This is what the Bible says" That's really all I try to do, and not put my own futile opinions in it.

GT4_Rule · May 6, 2006

Its just up to the person's family, environment and personal beliefs to decide. I have been visted by lots of Jehovahs Witnesses and I think they are good people, but I just cant accept the feeling that I am in a religion. I feel restricted and not able to do what I want to, especially with Jehovah's Witnesses. I cannot listen to songs like rap, play Halo, disobey my parents (even when necessary) and to make priorities (thats what those guys that came to my door said in name of God.) I feel tied-down and Im probably going to live as an athiest for my life.

I hope this adds to the discussion....if not....please ignore it.

a6m5 · May 6, 2006

kylehnat
One of the reasons that I reject religion is because of people like that guy. Christianity teaches tolerance and forgiveness, but many so-called Christians are only tolerant and forgiving of other Christians, and condemning of everyone else.

Some of them can be so judgemental. One of my good friend is that way. I don't go to, or belong in any churches, but do currently believe in the Creator in form of Jehovah and Jesus(sounds really concrete, huh?

). He was going off on me one day about how Trinity is correct way and I shouldn't believe that Jesus and God was separate entity. I told him, good for him, and didn't really care how he and his church came to that conclusion, it just wasn't for me, but like the over-persistent Christian he is, he just kept on going on and on until I finally lost my cool and I raised my voice to him to respect my belief, just like I respect his. Like I said, we are friends, so it wasn't that big of deal, but I still get a bad taste in my mouth thinking about that.

Event
Long story short, I've been rethinking my beliefs. The only hole in what I believe in is death. To be honest, I am scared of it. I don't know what is going to happen when I die, but all I know is I DONT want to find out... That is one reason that have been thinking of changing what I believe in, since according to the bible, and God, I can still get into heaven yet. I know this kind of sounds stupid, but, I would like to believe in some sort of life after death, because eternal darkness is scary. Switching to the christian faith will give me something more to believe in, maybe giving me some inner peace, which I lack of recent.

I think that is one of the reasons why many people belong in religions. All I can tell you is just live the right way. With or without religion, you should live clean life. We all know; don't lie, don't steal, don't kill, etc., etc. Just remember, and this is according to the Bible you are so afraid of

, unless you are Adam, Eve or Jesus, you aren't perfect. We should make effort that religions like the Christianity asks of us, but there is no way we will ever be perfect(at least not in this lifetime).

keef
I am an agnostic athiest since I now know what it is from the evolution, err, creation vs. evolution thread.

It sure looks bad for religions in that thread, no matter how hard Swift tries.

It's an uphill battle for him, because God is not something you can prove in a scientific discussion. All I can say is that, when I look around, I see more than big bang and evolution. It is totally speculative, but when you think about the super natural things, artistic things, heart, emotions, even Bob Dylan songs, I can't help it but to think there was more than evolution to all this. But that's just my opinion.

Delirious XVII
Because if the Bible is right, and it is 100% inspired of God...some of us are in some real trouble.

I like to think that Bible is a guide, rather than a book of law. If the followers had to follow 100%, over 99.9% of people can just forget about it. :scared:

*McLaren*
But isn't there something in the Bible that also relates or is similiar to "You will not spread beliefs?" or something close to that?

That's how Jesus operated, and as a result, we all know the types of hardships he and his disciples endured(i.e. rocks thrown at their heads).

*McLaren*
How do Christians expect to educate people when they go around saying "You are going to hell if you don't believe"?

Or is the whole religon these days based around scaring people into it?

Good point. 👍 That concerns me as well. But if you don't believe in God, then at least you have nothing to worry about. :sly:

GT4_Rule
Its just up to the person's family, environment and personal beliefs to decide. I have been visted by lots of Jehovahs Witnesses and I think they are good people, but I just cant accept the feeling that I am in a religion. I feel restricted and not able to do what I want to, especially with Jehovah's Witnesses. I cannot listen to songs like rap, play Halo, disobey my parents (even when necessary) and to make priorities (thats what those guys that came to my door said in name of God.) I feel tied-down and Im probably going to live as an athiest for my life.

I hope this adds to the discussion....if not....please ignore it.

Thanks for taking easy on the JDubs(J.W.

), my mom is one. Yes, they are pretty hard core. One of my biggest hobby is movies, but I can't share 90% of the movies with her, because she can't watch anything with ratings of over "PG". :lol:

And whenever she rides in my car with me, I gotta make sure I don't have a White Zombie CD or anything like that in the CD player. Like I said earlier in my post, I don't belong to any churches, and it's pretty much for the same reasons you mentioned. We are in a same boat!

GT4_Rule · May 6, 2006

a6m5
Thanks for taking easy on the JDubs(J.W. ), my mom is one. Yes, they are pretty hard core. One of my biggest hobby is movies, but I can't share 90% of the movies with her, because she can't watch anything with ratings of over "PG". And whenever she rides in my car with me, I gotta make sure I don't have a White Zombie CD or anything like that in the CD player. Like I said earlier in my post, I don't belong to any churches, and it's pretty much for the same reasons you mentioned. We are in a same boat!

I wonder how did you become to be an athiest when your mom was a JW :ouch:

But yeah, I gotta choose my words carefully when around anyone with a religion because even one wrong word and they take offense to it; one of my friend is JW as well and if I say "OMG" around him he gets all upset.

Umm, anyways, its good to keep an open mind but the religion thats being considered has to fit the personality and value of the individual.

Sheesh, I forgot what I was going to add to the last sentence! :scared:

a6m5 · May 6, 2006

GT4_Rule
I wonder how did you become to be an athiest when your mom was a JW [/SIZE]

I still believe in some kind of Creator, so I'm not actually an athiest. I guess I do still believe in Jesus and Jehovah, because that's what I was exposed to the most. I don't belong in any churches, because I can't follow many of the rules.

GT4_Rule
But yeah, I gotta choose my words carefully when around anyone with a religion because even one wrong word and they take offense to it; one of my friend is JW as well and if I say "OMG" around him he gets all upset.

That's not just with religions, I do it all the time. :lol:

Touring Mars · May 6, 2006

Interesting and thought provoking post/thread, *McLaren*.... what I'd say is that I find it difficult to accept that one's beliefs should be influenced so heavily by the interpretation/words/preaching of another... when it comes to questions about the unknown, how can anyone (religious figure or not) know any more about it than you?? (since it's unknown!) The fact is they don't. They may be able to articulate their beliefs better than you, or give a more reasoned explanation for their beliefs, but this doesn't change the simple fact that they don't actually know any more about these fundamental questions than the rest of us... 💡

You raise a very interesting point, or indeed a 'fact', that aethist and Christian people are fundamentally not all that different at all... indeed, most people have the capacity to be one or the other at some points in their lives. For me, 'belief' is influenced by what I read and learn from a wide range of material, but most, if not all, is based on rationality and naturalism... I'm an aethist myself, simply because my understanding of nature of the universe requires no input from that elusive 'X' factor, supernaturalism. Indeed, supernatural 'explanations' actually pose more questions than they solve...

High-Test · May 6, 2006

I'm kind of in limbo over this whole religion thing. I consider myself a Methodist. My best friend's parents are youth pastors at a non-denominational(cough.. baptist...) church. Although they're the nicest people I've ever met, they told me that if you don't live the bible and do exactly what it says, then you go to hell. But I can't see that, as it's all essentially about believing and being a good person, right? My friend at school does not believe in god, but he does lots of community service, and he regularly has foster kids at his house. He's the kind of person who would give someone the shirt off his back. But under the logic of Christians, he's going to hell, while someone who didn't have the foster kids but went to church every sunday isn't? I find it hard to believe that his family is going to hell. That's my main problem.

So, in other words, Why is it that an atheist who does all sorts of things for others goes to hell while a believer who hardly did anything for others goes to heaven?

Nice thread *McLaren*.

Anderton Prime · May 6, 2006

You shouldn't need to get your faith from other people in the first place. Your Christian faith can't come from others, it has to come from you. Same goes for your atheistic beliefs (or lack thereof). It should be a decision you make yourself, not one you make after hearing religious nutballs preach and pollute their respective religions...

Dave A · May 6, 2006

*McLaren*
But isn't there something in the Bible that also relates or is similiar to "You will not spread beliefs?" or something close to that?

How do Christians expect to educate people when they go around saying "You are going to hell if you don't believe"?

Or is the whole religon these days based around scaring people into it?

Your right that there's too much in religion these day's trying to scare people into it. I couldn't be a member of a church where I'm being told I go to hell if I do this or that etc. The first point about spreading beliefs, not there is nothing in the bible that say's you should't spread your beliefs, in fact, I tihnk it's right at the end of the book of Mathew, your told to go and make disciples, also after Jesus was babtized he spent the remainder of his life, teaching people about his beliefs. Ofcourse the people that listened and joined him in his beliefs did so of their own acord, not because they were forced to.

Regarding heaven and hell, I don't think hell is a literal place, rather I think it's symbolic of eternal destruction. There's a lot of symbolic things in the bible, you really need to know what is symbolic and what isn't, and my thought's are that hell isn't literal.

A few thing to consider are that the bible say's that god is not partial and that he's a god of love. It also has the golden rule, do to others as you would like them to do to you and it tell's us that the whole world is lying in the power of the wicked one (the wicked one being described as Satan). You can judge for yourself if someone claiming to believe in the entire bible is teaching things that go hand in hand with this or not.

Regardless of your view's on religion in general, I think you can still believe in a God, ie you can not be religious and still belive in a god. A religion is meerley men grouped together sharing a belief. If some groups get it wrong, is it god's fault? I'm not saying any one or group in particular has got it wrong btw.

At the end of the day, what you believe is totally down to you, and will be based on what you've read and seen. Remember that people have free will, you are allowed to use it, but that free will also allows people to get it wrong from time to time be it a preist or not.

Impreza04 · May 6, 2006

Religon is based on people being scared into it or passed via families.

I have no belief, all I have are my own opinions, which is there is no creator, instead Evolution and the universe. We know too much today to still belive a god created us.
However, this is where my own opinons come in, I belive Jesus was a real person but he was not the Son of god. Instead he was a capable and clever man who knew how to manipulate people. Like Derren Brown for example, if he done what he can do 2000 years ago and claimed to be the son of god, what evidence did they have to disprove it?
Magicians and Illusionists have proved for years things arn't always what they seem.

I'm fine with people having a belief, I don't care what that belief is, I have a probelm with people using religion as an excuse.
Suicide bombers always say they are doing it in the name of god, yet their religion promotes peace.... come again?

I do know people who are Muslim and they are some of the nicest people I known and they throughly disagree with what these people are doing.

Dave A · May 6, 2006

Impreza04
Suicide bombers always say they are doing it in the name of god, yet their religion promotes peace.... come again?

When you see that it's like an extreme case of irony.

James2097 · May 6, 2006

Great thread, thats all I have to say. Really nice to see a discussion with all different people (belief wise) and no one saying anyone is wrong or saying people with certain beliefs are idiots...

I'm fine with people that have any religion in the world, so long as:

(a) they don't try and force it on me
(b) they respect everyone else's various beliefs or lack of beliefs.

I do have to say I have a hard time respecting hardcore organised religion.
I think a personal feeling you come to yourself will always be truer to you than the preaching of an organised religion. There is no reason why you can't find your own sense of spirituality or whatever you feel is out there! No one human has experienced a greater understanding of spiritual things – what you feel and what you see day to day is all anyone has to go on (including those who wrote those holy scriptures long ago)...

What they felt years ago wasn't any more than what you feel today, and what you wonder about today - they just put it in words and it happened to ring a chord amongst people that were very willing to agree with a certain concept of spirituality.

standard235 · May 6, 2006

OK. Jehovah Witnesses....

I went to a convention for these people since my gma needed someone to room with, so my mom and I went with.

I hung out with ONE J.W. kid and he was 10X more of a rebel... but my gma says I'm a heathen(sp.?) Anyways, I don't think JW is a religion... more of an occult. Seriously, my mom bought like $100 worth of stuff on the J.W.s because she wanted to try to come closer to the truth of the matter. My mom grew up as a J.W and my dad is Christian. My gma basically hates my dad... not to mention some things that have happened semi recently. I think this may be because she's a ruddy ***** of a person so I may get the wrong idea.

I am considering becoming Atheist though... I'm not sure why. I'm a non practicing Christian but I believe a lot of different things so I can't be placed in one religion.

Oh, and my gma called my entire family Pegans or whatever. You know, the religion for people with no religion. Which is kinda weird because of the definition, you'd be thrown in limbo. I explained that to her but she said some nasty stuff and then because of her Alzheimer's, denied it all.

Wow, I wish I would have had a paintball gun when she lived here...

Poverty · May 6, 2006

If god was all so allmighty then surely he would let anyone into his heaven as long as they were good at heart regardless of wheter we belived in him or not. How can we belive in something of which there is no hard evidence?

McLaren · May 6, 2006

Poverty
If god was all so allmighty then surely he would let anyone into his heaven as long as they were good at heart regardless of wheter we belived in him or not. How can we belive in something of which there is no hard evidence?

I think that's because people who are in a religon rely on faith rather than proof.

GT4_Rule · May 6, 2006

standard235
OK. Jehovah Witnesses....

I went to a convention for these people since my gma needed someone to room with, so my mom and I went with.

I hung out with ONE J.W. kid and he was 10X more of a rebel... but my gma says I'm a heathen(sp.?) Anyways, I don't think JW is a religion... more of an occult. Seriously, my mom bought like $100 worth of stuff on the J.W.s because she wanted to try to come closer to the truth of the matter. My mom grew up as a J.W and my dad is Christian. My gma basically hates my dad... not to mention some things that have happened semi recently. I think this may be because she's a ruddy ***** of a person so I may get the wrong idea.

I am considering becoming Atheist though... I'm not sure why. I'm a non practicing Christian but I believe a lot of different things so I can't be placed in one religion.

Oh, and my gma called my entire family Pegans or whatever. You know, the religion for people with no religion. Which is kinda weird because of the definition, you'd be thrown in limbo. I explained that to her but she said some nasty stuff and then because of her Alzheimer's, denied it all.

Wow, I wish I would have had a paintball gun when she lived here...

That sucks....

In my personal opinion all religions use scare tactics and threats to try to get people to follow those rules. Like saying you will go to hell if you dont strictly follow the rules, etc. Im just surprised that religions survived to this day, even though it has been proved over and over again that matters and living creatures evolved, not created. And God does not exist in reality, just in believer's minds.

Dave A · May 6, 2006

Evolution is just a theory, it's not been proven, otherwise it wouldn't be a theory. There's evidence to support either side's of the argument, but both rely on a level of faith to accept. Which one sit's easiest in your mind is down to you, what you know and have experienced and such.

SRV2LOW4ME · May 7, 2006

I can relate to you in a way *McLaren*, but in more personal way. My Mother had always gone to church every sunday since the day she was born, where as my Father had been baptized, but didn't attend church any longer, even though his parents (my grandparents) worked in a church. Even my Great Great Grandfather on my fathers side was a Minister, so religion played a big part in my family for many generations.

When I was born, I was never baptized by my parents because they felt that I should choose later in life what my religion and/or beliefs should be. Unfortuantly, thats a big no-no in my Mothers religion, and the first time that my Mom attended church with me, the Minister had the nerve to tell her that since I haven't been baptized, I was the son of the devil and that I was no longer welcome in his church. With that said to her, my Mom stopped attending church, and the Minister pushed two people (Mother and I) away from his congrigation (sp?). So the church welcomes everyone, but only if you are a part of the religion? :odd:

Riiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiight...

The second instance came when my Grandfather died. After a discussion with my family in the Hospital, there was found to be some mixed feelings between the Minister and my Grandparents, on many subjects of which I don't know too much about and he was asked to leave. After my Grandpa passed away, the Minister had the nerve to show up at the funeral uninvited and continue to express his views in a very inappropriate manner. So much so, that my uncles had to escort him by the arms off the property. Have some respect for a grieving family and learn that a funeral is not a place to express ones religious beliefs, and unfortuantly, many religious people don't know when to stop pushing their beliefs on people and feel it nessecary to do so whenever, and wherever.

Add this with the fact that most churches now tell you how much you are to give each week, whether your poor, rich, retired or whatever. When my Grandma met a new man and moved in together, the Minister had the nerve to ask them in front of everyone "why they were living together in sin" since they weren't married, and then told them they were to pay more each week since they were now living together. So they're living in sin, but your willing to accept them if they pay more? :odd:

Riiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiight...

Even throughout life i've noticed that people who go to church are friends with those that go to church, and vise versa. I've tried to make friends in the past with those that attend a church, but i've always noticed that as soon as you get close to them, they want you to "attend with them and bring an open mind" (not a reference to you, its happened to me a couple times in the past) which usually pushes me away instantly because i'm left wondering if they want a friend or to convert another sheep to their flock.

The whole "convert or go to hell" and "the more money given, the bigger the saint" attitude really turns me off, and I see it all the time. If people started practicing what they preached, this would probably be a better place to live in. :indiff:

EDIT: Woah, I just realized how long my post was...TAKE THAT! people who don't like to read long messages... :lol:

GT4_Rule · May 7, 2006

Thats a good post by you, SRV. What kind of a minister is that....interferring with other people's businesses :grumpy:

Unfortunately I have had the same experience as you for the friends part. They keep asking me to attend this and that and if IO dont then they abel me as anti-religious and stop being friends with me. Retarded.

McLaren · May 7, 2006

SRV, in that one description you gave, it sound like your Minister was after indulgences, which imo, is very bad.

High-Test · May 7, 2006

Now that I look at it, I'm grateful that my parents didn't force me to go to church or force me into a certain way of thinking. I think that it's made me more open minded as a person, and kinda makes any religious pursuit more rewarding if I coose to do so because I'm doing it for my own sake. I wasn't baptised until 5th grade, and only because I wanted to be. I think that young people wouldn't be so uncomfortable with the thought of religion if they were left by their parents to only pursue it for their own good.

(It's midnight and I'm tired.. I hope that made sense)

One thing I have a problem with, as SRV mentioned, is how churches exclude people. There's a man named Phelps whom I'm ashamed to live in the same state as who protests at the funerals of war veterans, and calls gays the human spawn of the devil.
The main thing that irks me is that churches automatically exclude Homosexuals. "So what if they're good people, they aren't allowed." If God is a God of love, and we're supposed to love each other, then why are we blatently excluding some? Criminals get religious services in jail, why can't a Gay with no record go to Church and be accepted and respected?

a6m5 · May 7, 2006

High-Test
The main thing that irks me is that churches automatically exclude Homosexuals. "So what if they're good people, they aren't allowed." If God is a God of love, and we're supposed to love each other, then why are we blatently excluding some? Criminals get religious services in jail, why can't a Gay with no record go to Church and be accepted and respected?

I'm afraid there is no politically correct answer for this one, as far as I now. Delirious XVII or Swift could explain it, I'm sure. I won't go into details, but I'm sure most of you could think of many reasons why Bible wouldn't allow homosexuality. You could say because: a)You won't procreate(which would've been important in Biblical times). b)STDs(goes for heterosexuals as well).

On criminals getting church services in jail, I think the idea behind it is to convert criminals into Christians. I'm sure you are familiar with it, you live in America where that happens all the time. On the other hand, gay people converting are extremely rare, so I don't see bunch of churches starting programs for the gays anytime soon(there are few churches that already does this, of course).

Again this is just my personal opinion, but homosexuality is no worse than other sins god warns people about. In other words, they are no more guilty than (probably)most of the Christians. I know one gay Christian for sure. He deals with it by not mentioning his sexuality. I guess you could say he is hiding in a closet, though everybody knows. Funnily enough, only Christian he's had problem with was my friend(the Trinity guy) whom I mentioned in my first post. :lol:

Anyways, I tried my best to explain it from my understanding, which is kind of limited, since I don't attend churches. Sorry it kinda got long, but I hope it helps a little bit.

High-Test · May 8, 2006

Thanks for the explanation, a6m5.

I guess I was more irked about the concept rater than the practice, meaning that I was irked how they say "let everyone in" and then don't.

Slicks · May 8, 2006

It is more or less a dilemma, concerning what religion I consider myself to be. My grandparents on my dad's side are devout Christians. They have, to my knowledge, attended Church every Sunday whenever possible (Even with my grandfather in long-term care in a wheelchair). My grandma on my mom's side was Catholic, to the extent of my knowledge. But I can't recall her ever going to church. Possibly she went in her earlier years.

I would have to call myself an agnostic atheist. I have only been to church a handful of times, the most recently being last summer when I went with my previously mentioned Christian grandparents for a Sunday service. I don't believe my parents have ever been to church on a regular basis, and only a handful of times since I was born (Again, with grandparents).
I do not appreciate how religions force themselves on you, often expecting (not hoping, but expecting) money in return. They are blatantly exclusive, and if you do not fit the minister's view of a worthy churchgoer, it has been my experience that they will probably ask you to leave (Also referring to SRV's post). I choose to not be religious, and only I will make that choice. That said, I do believe that yes, there may well be a god. It cannot be proven by anyone in any way, but I like to think that it is possible. I like to think this if not for myself then, at the very least, for the benefit of those that do believe. I have prayed for the health of my grandfather on a few occasions at home, when he was on my mind (I live in another province, and only see my grandparents a few times a year). While I know that logically it will not help him, I like to think it does.
I'm going to be honest. Part of why I am determined not to join a religion is that I think the laws and rules we have imposed upon us are more than enough. I do not need more rules and restrictions on how I am to live my life. I also doubt that I would have the willpower to obey every rule of a religion. And just because I am not religious, does not mean I am immorale. I have seen opinions expressed in the past that contradict that, which I highly disagree with. I would prefer to think that I have higher morale standards than a large selection of people I know, religious or not.

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