Lemons Season 4: Next Race on 29 November

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Vol Jbolaz

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This is the fourth season of the Lemons series.

News
  • 17 November 2011: Race 3 results have been published.
  • 8 November 2011: Race 2 results have been published.
  • 25 October 2011: Pre-season results have been published. Those who have not picked a car must pick a car that is not already being used.
  • 21 October 2011: The track list has been published.
  • 20 October 2011: The leaderboard has been published.
  • 19 October 2011: Track selection will be published by 20 October 2011.
  • 19 October 2011: Car selection will be limited to 345 PP. Car selection is due by 25 October 2011.
  • 19 October 2011: The Pre-Season race will be on 25 October 2011.


Objective
Purchase a cheap car that is at or below the performance points limit and show up to the first race. After each race, points are awarded based on placement and totaled at the end of the series to determine the winner. Extra credits are awarded to spend on your car as well. The loser gets the most credits to improve their car while the winner gets the least. The goal is to rotate out leaders by giving underdogs a little more to spend on their cars. Run whacha brung and hope for the best finish each week. Pit strategy and accident avoidance will play a key role.

Initial Vehicle Selection
  1. Race Cars, Rally Cars, and Tuner brand cars are prohibited.
  2. Car must start at or below the 345 PP limit after a complete engine and chassis refresh.
  3. Car must have at least 200 miles or must be 5 points below the PP limit.
  4. Car must be between 19xx-2001. Newer cars are prohibited.
  5. For cars under the PP limit, power and weight mods are allowed for the first race to get it to the limit.
  6. Any modification that does not directly affect PP is not allowed for the first race. This includes:
    Chassis reinforcement, transmissions, drivetrain improvements, and suspension improvements.
    Aero parts will be prohibited from the first race.​
  7. Ballast and Power Reduction will also prohibited for the first race.

Tires and Other Freebees
Tires will be free (not included in budget) and compound restriction will increase with each race starting with Comfort tires and ending with Racing tires. Paint, wheels, oil changes, engine rebuilds, and chassis rebuilds will also be free as there is no way to police that sort of thing. Aero kits are not free.

Race format
Time: Tuesday. Room opens for qualifying by 9:30 p.m. EDT (GMT -4). Race starts at 10:00 p.m..
Length: Each race will be roughly 1 hour in length
Damage: Set to full -- cars involved in accidents will have to pit for repairs. Accident avoidance is critically more important than speed.
Penalties: Off -- races will be reviewed and points/credits will be deducted as necessary. In short, follow GTP OLR rules.
Starting Grid: TBD
Entering and Exiting the Pits: Do not cross the white line. Yield to faster cars on the track in the first turn by staying on the same side of the track as the pit until you reach racing speeds.

Schedule
  1. 18 October -- Testing Night
  2. 25 October -- Preseason Race at Road Course - Indy for 27 Laps on Comfort Mediums
  3. 1 November -- Race 1 at Tsukuba Circuit on Comfort Mediums
  4. 8 November -- Race 2 at Deep Forest Raceway Reverse on Comfort Soft
  5. 15 November -- Race 3 at Sprint Night at London on Sports Hard
  6. 29 November -- Race 4 at Nurburgring GP/D on Sports Medium
  7. 6 December -- Race 5 at Lemons Country Course on Sports Soft with Time Change
  8. 13 December -- Race 6 at Circuit de la Sarthe 2009 on Racing Hard with Weather Change
  9. 20 December -- Race 7 at Road Course - Indy on Racing Medium

Awards
Cash will be allocated based on season standings, not race finish:
  1. 26 points and 0 Cr
  2. 21 points and 1,000 Cr
  3. 17 points and 2,500 Cr
  4. 14 points and 5,000 Cr
  5. 12 points and 7,500 Cr
  6. 11 points and 10,000 Cr
  7. 10 points and 12,500 Cr
  8. 9 points and 15,000 Cr
  9. 8 points and 17,500 Cr
  10. 7 points and 20,000 Cr
  11. 6 points and 20,000 Cr
  12. 5 points and 20,000 Cr
  13. 4 points and 20,000 Cr
  14. 3 points and 20,000 Cr
  15. 2 points and 20,000 Cr
  16. 1 point and 20,000 Cr

  • The driver that sets the fastest qualifying time will receive an extra point.

  • Award money can be banked until after next race
  • Parts cannot be sold off once installed (if you purchase a sport exhaust and later want to upgrade to a racing exhaust you have to pay full price for it)
  • Tires are free so money only has to be spent on performance mods
  • The fully customizable transmission will be worth 7,500 Cr.
  • Drivers that are unable to make a race will receive 5,000 Cr.

Keeping it Fair
  1. Driver chooses a car and submits specifications to race steward prior to the start of the series.
  2. After each race, car and mods installed will be made public and cars must be shared for others to inspect.
  3. Inspection process will involve verifying parts purchased are what is installed and lap times are consistent with those seen in the race.
  4. Parts chosen for subsequent races must be submitted prior to the start of the next race and will not be made public until after the race is completed.

Penalties
  • Flagrant use of track runoff areas will result in a half second penalty for each infraction.
  • Cars that fail to meet inspection will result in disqualification from the previous race.
  • Drivers that bump another car off their line and do not immediately give back any position gained from the accident, will get a time penalty equal to the difference in lap times of the cars involved.

Drivers
  1. Vol Jbolaz (a_garris)
  2. dabneyd (dabneyd)
  3. GeezerG123 (GeezerG123)
  4. BTK (BOWTIEKID)
  5. diabolicwyvern (diabolicwyvern)
  6. leadbedr (leadbedr)
  7. morbo (galikazoid)
  8. chuyler1 (chuyler1)
  9. pyxen (GTP_pyxen)
  10. WiiFreak (WiiFreak)
  11. spooble (spooble)
  12. Diabolical_J (Diabolical_J)

History
 
Last edited:
Can I get an exact date on the practice race? I have about 3 weeks of hell to go through, and may not be able to do much. May miss preseason race if it's sooner than later.
 
I'm not going to do a wednesday series. Garris has been doing a better job at policing things than me and I don't have the time to do car inspections. I will, however, participate in the Tuesday series!

Changes I'd like to see...

1) Change official name to "Lemons Racing" so we don't have to run le Sarthe as the final track.

2) Start with 345pp on CM tires (i'm not really a fan of 325)

3) Update the points system (20,18,16,14,12,10,8,6,4,2)

4) Introduce sprint rounds. Details below.

5) Maybe start and finish the season on the same track.


Sprint Round Concept

Instead of one 60 minute race, we run five 10 minute races with reverse grid after the first race. Tracks selected for the sprint rounds will be tight with very little passing opportunities. Scoring will be based on top 4 finishes allowing drivers to recover from a mistake or a network disconnect. Damage light will be used if no pit is available (ie London).

I recommend we run at least 2 sprint nights during the series. One early in the season and one late in the season...and I think at least one of them should be at London.

Tracks: I propose the following track selection, a careful balance of the offerings PD has given us with some tracks we haven't used yet.

1) Clubman SSR5 -- should be pretty straight with slow cars (need to test though)
2) London (sprint round) -- exciting sprint round where passing is very difficult
3) Deep Forest Reverse -- a fast track to let people open things up
4) Nurburgring GP/D -- a mix of technical turns and moderate straights
5) Grand Valley Full -- another mix of technical parts but with long straights.
6) Tsukuba (sprint round) -- a short track with difficult passing points
7) Monza w/weather -- an alternative to le sarthe (unfortunately no time change)
 
I have to disagree with a lot of the previous post. It sounds more like club racing that's once a week than an actual championship. I would like just a couple things.

Start on Comfort Medium
Start below 385PP (doesnt matter where)
Please change scoring so that positions 10+ have something to drive for. ie 5-4-3-2-1-0 for last place
Add at least one create a track preferrably before we have racing tires
 
chuyler1
2) Start with 345pp on CM tires (i'm not really a fan of 325)

3) Update the points system (20,18,16,14,12,10,8,6,4,2)
Click to expand...

diabolicwyvern
I have to disagree with a lot of the previous post. It sounds more like club racing that's once a week than an actual championship. I would like just a couple things.

Start on Comfort Medium
Start below 385PP (doesnt matter where)
Please change scoring so that positions 10+ have something to drive for. ie 5-4-3-2-1-0 for last place
Add at least one create a track preferrably before we have racing tires
Click to expand...

I think we're with you, Diabolic, except for the create a track thing.
 
Not a problem. To be honest, I added the create-a-track just because I tend to race above my skill level as the difficult increases. The more I'm forced to countersteer, the more I focus and better I become.
 
I don't have a problem with a create a track. You can share those, right?
 
Have I read correctly in the other threads that you can only add performance parts (power/weight) to the cars, therefore no FC suspension? I suck at tuning. :)
 
Before the first race, you may only add parts that directly affect the PP level of the car. No Transmission or Suspension work till you receive prize money.

Dabneyd, you can download friend's tracks from their profile once they are shared for permanent use.

@Garris -- Are we considering this an interest check thread? Should we have it moved until we nail down the criteria for Season 4 and then create a new thread at that point?
 
I'm all in on a Toscana road course with Lemons, but it needs to be one of the first races.

As for the sprint races, I'm not feeling 5 rounds. I think we should do a halftime show. This is how it works:

Dirt Track Style:

Two races-
The first race will be based off of normal qualifying, and be run like any normal race, but it is half of what the full length race would be. The top 3 would receive a bonus of 3-5 points (up to you all), and then th feield is reversed. (Reverse results from previous race).

You can make any adjustment you would like too in this halftime, roughly 5-10 minutes.

Then we race the last half normally, except that the field was reversed. The winner will receive normal points. This will add a new strategy into the Lemons race where it promotes both sandbagging, AND going for the win. :embarrassed: Yes, it promotes sandbagging, it's OH. I would rather have my 5 bonus points anyways.

I would ask that we only do this once in the season though, because it would be something new, and if everyone hates it, then we don't have to worry about it happening again later in the season.
 
I don't want any dirt...I suck at dirt. No dirt.

I like some of huyler's suggestions, namely:
Changes I'd like to see...

1) Change official name to "Lemons Racing" so we don't have to run le Sarthe as the final track -- don't really care about the name, but it would be nice to have a return to a track actually, and see how things change. Maybe start and finish at the same one ?

2) Start with 345pp on CM tires (i'm not really a fan of 325) -- I'm officially off 325..it was too boring, as in really f'ing boring.

3) Update the points system (20,18,16,14,12,10,8,6,4,2) -- sure, why not?

4) Introduce sprint rounds -- Definitely a fan of this, especially with reverse grids to keep things fresh.

5) Maybe start and finish the season on the same track. -- uh, yeah, said that earlier.

So it seems I like all of huyler's changes.

The tracks I'm not sure about, and I don't enjoy rain races as much, really... I think we should use the poll again.

I do like:
1) Clubman SSR5
3) Deep Forest Reverse
4) Nurburgring GP/D (or F)
6) Tsukuba (sprint round)


..uh, yeah - I'm in btw.
 
I hate eifel generated tracks, but ive got some fun toscana and mt aso tracks we could try out.
 
Eifel is more for indy cars, while a Toscana and Mt. Aso track are more for street cars. With lower settings they can be very realistic, but turn the dial's up, and prepare to go for a ride.
 
chuyler1
I'm not going to do a wednesday series. Garris has been doing a better job at policing things than me and I don't have the time to do car inspections. I will, however, participate in the Tuesday series!

Changes I'd like to see...

1) Change official name to "Lemons Racing" so we don't have to run le Sarthe as the final track.

2) Start with 345pp on CM tires (i'm not really a fan of 325)

3) Update the points system (20,18,16,14,12,10,8,6,4,2)

4) Introduce sprint rounds. Details below.

5) Maybe start and finish the season on the same track.
Click to expand...

1) I had already dropped Le Mans from this thread title. :)
2) I'm not a fan of 325 either, but there were those that were asking. Thus the idea of the testing night.
3) I didn't really think the point system was broken. And I kind of like the style where the jump between first and second is bigger than second and third and so on.
4) Interesting idea. I don't know how it helps anything but the twitchy cars though.
5) I made this comment and I thought that at the very least, the preseason race was going to be on the same track as the final race. I want to at least see if the field tightens up. I don't think season three was as successful as season two in that regard.


I'll start adding driver's names to the first post, and I'll try to put up a poll this weekend. Tuesday night, we can test out cars, though I am thinking that 325 is mostly a bust. Really, it is a question of 345 or 365. I think most people want to go down instead of stay 385-390.

I guess the preseason race will be the 25th? And the season will start on 1 November? That'll push us into holidays. I'll probably skip the week of Thanksgiving and, if it lasts that long, the week of and after Xmas.
 
I'm resting cars now in practice mode. At 11:00est join my lounge for some gve-r races, maybe some other tracks too.
 
I like 345. I have a few cars that seemed to be about the same speed. Chuyler, do you think your fastest car from last night is really that much faster then everything else at 345? The best I could get out of anything on GVE-R was around 1:30. I think if we lower the PP, we need to go to a point where the cars from the previous season are not eligible.
 
At the present time, the EXA Canopy (aka Nissan Pulsar) is about 1 second faster than anything else I have tested. Without much effort it ran a 1:27 flat at GVE-R online. The closest I came to that time after testing several cars was a 1:27.8...and that was trying very hard to nail every corner. The EXA just has outstanding grip and very good acceleration.

I have only tested about 10 cars thus far though, but I'm close to exhausting my collection and will have to start flipping the UCD soon.

If people start zoning in on a small number of cars, I was toying with the idea of suggesting different starting PP. Either a blanket option like cars older than 19XX can run 350 pp while cars newer than 19XX must stick with 345. Another approach could be to nominate a car you want to run for pp adjustment. Several drivers can drive it and decide what a competitive pp will be to run against other cars.

I also want to do some back to back testing with drafting set to normal and low to see what is best for this series, keeping in mind that drivers will be handicapped at times and drafting is sometimes the only way to keep up.
 
The rules do say you have to do an engine and chassis refresh, right? I found a couple of nice old cars, but they bumped up too high after refresh.

Edit: And no ballast/detuning to get it back down for the first race?
 
spooble
The rules do say you have to do an engine and chassis refresh, right? I found a couple of nice old cars, but they bumped up too high after refresh.

Edit: And no ballast/detuning to get it back down for the first race?
Click to expand...

Correct. After both refreshes, you may only add parts that raise PP levels up to the starting point for the series. If you are using a car with less than 200 miles on the OD, you will be allowed starting PP-5 to begin.

Note: I know the spoiler changes PP by affecting downforce, but it is not allowed till after the first race.
 
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