3D3 Racing: WRS-based races moved to new WRS sub-forum!

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StigsHero
What I think DSG meant is that the timing monitor doesn't always work. Which is true, but as long as you set your grip/tire wear/fuel wear/slipstream before you select your track then it should always work. If you select your track and then pick your settings the timing monitor will most likely show no info. I don't know why, but I've learned that picking your track settings before you load the track fixes it.

If you don't plan on letting the people in the room know the top 5 starting order (or whatever) then there's no need for a host to monitor anything or leave the track at any time. You could just tell everyone to go to the pits and start the race. And I'm pretty sure it doesn't matter if you drive into the pits or pause/exit to get to the pits, at least not when you're using my method. (Not trying to say my method is the greatest ever, just that it works without fail when followed properly). I'm sure we have people do both methods of getting to the pits and it's never caused any problems.
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👍 Great info. I had no idea about this quirk (in bold). We typically have set the track first and then the other settings. However, when quali starts we change tracks and back again to reset the times so I guess ultimately we have set the track last, but it's a good tidbit of knowledge.

💡 Last week when the quali order was messed up a bit (not totally messed up becuase I earned and got pole position) we did something different. To try and get Lefty to stay connected we switched over to my lounge at the last minute before qualifying. I did not reset the track that time because nobody had done any laps yet and basically we started quali immediately upon entering my lounge. The quirk above is probably the reason why quali was messed up so badly. I picked the track first and then set the other options.

Stigs you have been very helpful in clearing up a few mysteries. Now go and run the qualifier so you can join us in these events!
 
May take part in this race, been absent from WRS and 3D3 a lot recently, mostly because I am quite busy nowadays amidst other commitments. You got me tempted to run this week with that combo however, GT500 on a scenic track, what could go wrong? :sly:

Probably won't be running WRS for a while because of above reasons, although I may drop by in a 3D3 race every now and then, racing with you guys is pretty fun 👍 Quick question, is tuning allowed, as in changing the setup?
 
Pleased to have you back, Biffy. 👍 I won't add you just yet, as you didn't say you'd make it for sure, and the EU race is only half-full.

No tuning this week, this is the Arcade Mode Calsonic, from the Recommended Garage.
 
Biffy
..., although I may drop by in a 3D3 race every now and then, racing with you guys is pretty fun 👍 Quick question, is tuning allowed, as in changing the setup?
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Good to see you dropping in! 👍

This car will be taken from the recommended garage in the online lobby. So, all you will be able to change in the setup is your Brake Balance.

Edit: Got beaten by Lucas ;)
 
OK. BIG announcement for this weeks' race.... We're going with old-style F1 live qualifying. It will take place right before the race just like our normal qualifying.

That means each driver will make a single hot lap under observation and that lap time will determine the starting order on the grid. A steward led formation lap will sort the field after the race timer ends.

Pre-quali Procedures:

After the WRS week becomes official (in a few hours) we'll assign each driver to a qualifying group. Given the length of this track we'll be setting the group size to 3 drivers. Note: Any drivers that did not submit to WRS will be assigned to Group A (order based on current handicap and non registry drivers first of all). The idea is the fastest WRS submission gets to qualify last which may or may not be an advantage... they have more information, but also have to deal with some additional pressure.

Quali Procedures.

  1. The lounge gets reset at the top of the hour as usual and all drivers remain in lobby until their group is instructed to enter the course. All other drivers should observe via the "watch race" function.
  2. Drivers in Group A (A1-A3) are instructed to enter the course
  3. Driver A1 will enter track immediately to begin his warmup lap and drivers A2 and A3 will be staggered out onto the track at about 20 second intervals.
  4. Group A drivers will complete their warm up lap and run a single qualifying hot lap.
  5. All other drivers will be observing these laps from the lobby. Any "cutting" that is determined to have assisted the lap time will incur a 2 second penalty. If it's a harmless "off" there will be no penalty. We will identify ahead of time which corners will be monitored for "cutting" (just a couple at this track).
  6. After finishing their hot laps, drivers will continue at reduced speeds onto their cool down lap until notified that their time has been officially recorded at which point they can immediate exit to the lobby.
  7. Group B will begin the same procedure when Group A has left the track.
  8. This will continue until all groups complete their hot lap.
  9. When all groups have complete all drivers will enter the pits (not the track) and the race timer will begin.
  10. Once the race time completes and everyone is placed on the grid we will use our normal procedures to setup and run a formation lap.

We expect this procedure to take about 6 minutes per group on this long track (enter track, warm up lap, hot lap, partial cool down, exit). So if we have 12 drivers or 4 groups it should be done in ~24 minutes. If the grid has 8 or less drivers we'll use 2 driver groups instead. On shorter tracks this should be a much quicker process and/or we can use smaller groups or even individual drivers going one at a time.

This should be fun and the time should fly. I'll be in one of the early groups as I didn't submit a time this week and will enjoy watching the final couple groups (of fast drivers) try to hit their targets. Speedy's live feed should be a "hoot" to watch as well for any observers.

We are setting the lap count so the race is done in ~50 minutes which is a bit shorter than the usual 60 minutes to account for the additional qualification time.

I'll also set up a google spreadsheet which we can publish live while in the lobby. So any of you with a laptop or computer visible can view an updated log of all the times as they are laid down (if they aren't all visible from the live stats page while viewing from the lobby).

Any questions or concerns? We hope you will all enjoy this little last minute wrinkle.

EDIT: Mics will be open during quali. If you find them distracting you can mute people's mics from the lobby before your group enters the course and then un-mute them when your group is complete.

NOTE: On the final corner of your warm up lap, which gets you on the straight to start your hot lap, you have to stay clean. No going wide off track to get a better run to the start. Laps will be penalized 2 secs per incident for going off track starting with the final turn of your warm up lap.
 
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WRP001
After the WRS week becomes official (in a few hours) we'll assign each driver to a qualifying group. Given the length of this track we'll be setting the group size to 3 drivers. Note: Any drivers that did not submit to WRS will be assigned to Group A (order based on current handicap and non registry drivers first of all). The idea is the fastest WRS submission gets to qualify last which may or may not be an advantage... they have more information, but also have to deal with some additional pressure.
.
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will it be possible for the faster drivers to qualify first since it will really help to see where a lot of time is lost and it might help some drivers (me) in terms of lines taken through corners...Im cool with whatever you choose either way....
 
kk20
will it be possible for the faster drivers to qualify first since it will really help to see where a lot of time is lost and it might help some drivers (me) in terms of lines taken through corners...Im cool with whatever you choose either way....
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NO. Fastest go last.

If you want to see the lines then you can download replays from the WRS forum thread. That should show up in about an hour or two and the top drivers from each division have to post their replays. Hopefully there will be a few PAL replays up there for you before the start of the race. Technically drivers have a week to submit, but often people upload replays in the first 24 hours. They are offline replays, but they will be pretty much the same lines.

Also we have a EU practice tomorrow at 20:00 GMT / 3:00 PM Eastern / 12:00 PM Pacific. You can join the practice lobby (GTP_3D3Racing) and observe other peoples laps using the "watch race" feature.
 
kk20
Well that was a kick in the...nah im just kidding :lol: I'll just take a look at the WRS replays...👍
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:lol: Some advice... I'm going in Group A most likely, but don't watch my lap. Or if you do watch it don't copy it. I haven't done a single lap myself except the short test session we did after the Laguna race and that was just messing around.
 
The new qualifying wrinkle sounds interesting.

I know you said you are going to post which corners you would consider cutting to be an issue.

Have you thought about how to handle the "loop" corner?

The WRS rules were that the paint is out of bounds. Even if you rule that the paint is in bounds (understandable for an online race), there is also contact to consider. There are a couple of other places on track that contact could be a factor.

Thoughts on that?
 
EDK
The new qualifying wrinkle sounds interesting.

I know you said you are going to post which corners you would consider cutting to be an issue.

Have you thought about how to handle the "loop" corner?

The WRS rules were that the paint is out of bounds. Even if you rule that the paint is in bounds (understandable for an online race), there is also contact to consider. There are a couple of other places on track that contact could be a factor.

Thoughts on that?
Click to expand...

The painted area outside the loop is out of bounds just like it is for the WRS. We use all the same rules for track boundaries as the original WRS event.

However, what we do about an infraction is different between the race and quali.

During the race you have other cars to fight and pass and avoid and human error is understandable over N laps so it's a gentlemen's rule. Stay on the track and if you benefit from going off track you must not pass or return a position if you do pass. Same as every other week since we turned off penalties.

During the quali we can and should be more strict as these laps are held to a higher standard. If you make a mistake on your one hot lap then you get a penalty. The painted area outside the loop should incur a penalty as it can be used to recover from carrying too much speed and that would help your lap time potentially.

I say that in order to avoid having to lay out every corner we just use this rule:

If a driver is observed going clearly and visibly off track (or in contact with a wall) AND the incident doesn't clearly and significantly slow you down then you get the penalty.​

Or just stay on the darn track. If you have an accident clearly costing you time and resulting in a wall hit or off track we won't add another 2 seconds. But if you go wide on corner exit and drift off track we penalize you because you carried too much speed. If you tap a wall carrying too much speed and it doesn't have a clear negative impact on your lap then you get a penalty.

Is that clear and fair? I think so.

Maybe this is better?

  • The "off" has to be "beyond a reasonable doubt" to consider a penalty
  • The "speed loss" has to be "beyond a reasonable doubt" to dismiss the penalty
 
WRP001
OK. BIG announcement for this weeks' race.... We're going with old-style F1 live qualifying. It will take place right before the race just like our normal qualifying.

That means each driver will make a single hot lap under observation and that lap time will determine the starting order on the grid. A steward led formation lap will sort the field after the race timer ends.

Pre-quali Procedures:

After the WRS week becomes official (in a few hours) we'll assign each driver to a qualifying group. Given the length of this track we'll be setting the group size to 3 drivers. Note: Any drivers that did not submit to WRS will be assigned to Group A (order based on current handicap and non registry drivers first of all). The idea is the fastest WRS submission gets to qualify last which may or may not be an advantage... they have more information, but also have to deal with some additional pressure.

Quali Procedures.


[*]The lounge gets reset at the top of the hour as usual and all drivers remain in lobby until their group is instructed to enter the course. All other drivers should observe via the "watch race" function.
[*]Drivers in Group A (A1-A3) are instructed to enter the course
[*]Driver A1 will enter track immediately to begin his warmup lap and drivers A2 and A3 will be staggered out onto the track at about 20 second intervals.
[*]Group A drivers will complete their warm up lap and run a single qualifying hot lap.
[*]All other drivers will be observing these laps from the lobby. Any "cutting" that is determined to have assisted the lap time will incur a 2 second penalty. If it's a harmless "off" there will be no penalty. We will identify ahead of time which corners will be monitored for "cutting" (just a couple at this track).
[*]After finishing their hot laps, drivers will continue at reduced speeds onto their cool down lap until notified that their time has been officially recorded at which point they can immediate exit to the lobby.
[*]Group B will begin the same procedure when Group A has left the track.
[*]This will continue until all groups complete their hot lap.
[*]When all groups have complete all drivers will enter the pits (not the track) and the race timer will begin.
[*]Once the race time completes and everyone is placed on the grid we will use our normal procedures to setup and run a formation lap.


We expect this procedure to take about 6 minutes per group on this long track (enter track, warm up lap, hot lap, partial cool down, exit). So if we have 12 drivers or 4 groups it should be done in ~24 minutes. If the grid has 8 or less drivers we'll use 2 driver groups instead. On shorter tracks this should be a much quicker process and/or we can use smaller groups or even individual drivers going one at a time.

This should be fun and the time should fly. I'll be in one of the early groups as I didn't submit a time this week and will enjoy watching the final couple groups (of fast drivers) try to hit their targets. Speedy's live feed should be a "hoot" to watch as well for any observers.

We are setting the lap count so the race is done in ~50 minutes which is a bit shorter than the usual 60 minutes to account for the additional qualification time.

I'll also set up a google spreadsheet which we can publish live while in the lobby. So any of you with a laptop or computer visible can view an updated log of all the times as they are laid down (if they aren't all visible from the live stats page while viewing from the lobby).

Any questions or concerns? We hope you will all enjoy this little last minute wrinkle.

EDIT: Mics will be open during quali. If you find them distracting you can mute people's mics from the lobby before your group enters the course and then un-mute them when your group is complete.
Click to expand...

Would you mind doing me a favor? I'm almost positive that this method (if everyone obeys the rules) will place you on the starting grid in the exact same order that you want to be. So would you mind taking note of the starting order (before your formation lap) and comparing it to your qualification results? I'd be willing to bet they'll be the same and you won't have to do any adjusting on your formation lap,but I'm always trying to collect info on how this system works and this would provide a pretty big chunk of info. If you could share that with me it'd be much appreciated. :)
 
WRP001
The painted area outside the loop is out of bounds just like it is for the WRS. We use all the same rules for track boundaries as the original WRS event.

However, what we do about an infraction is different between the race and quali.

During the race you have other cars to fight and pass and avoid and human error is understandable over N laps so it's a gentlemen's rule. Stay on the track and if you benefit from going off track you must not pass or return a position if you do pass. Same as every other week since we turned off penalties.

During the quali we can and should be more strict as these laps are held to a higher standard. If you make a mistake on your one hot lap then you get a penalty. The painted area outside the loop should incur a penalty as it can be used to recover from carrying too much speed and that would help your lap time potentially.

I say that in order to avoid having to lay out every corner we just use this rule:
If a driver is observed going clearly and visibly off track (or in contact with a wall) AND the incident doesn't clearly and significantly slow you down then you get the penalty.​
Or just stay on the darn track. If you have an accident clearly costing you time and resulting in a wall hit or off track we won't add another 2 seconds. But if you go wide on corner exit and drift off track we penalize you because you carried too much speed. If you tap a wall carrying too much speed and it doesn't have a clear negative impact on your lap then you get a penalty.

Is that clear and fair? I think so.

Maybe this is better?

  • The "off" has to be "beyond a reasonable doubt" to consider a penalty
  • The "speed loss" has to be "beyond a reasonable doubt" to dismiss the penalty
Click to expand...

Yes, it's clear and fair. I just wanted it spelled out for everyone before the event. :)

I'm sure none of us would run wide onto the paint intentionally, but it is an area where a lot of time can potentially be gained (and therefore lost), so I thought it was important to clarify the impact of out of bounds and/or wall riding through there. 👍
 
StigsHero
Would you mind doing me a favor? I'm almost positive that this method (if everyone obeys the rules) will place you on the starting grid in the exact same order that you want to be. So would you mind taking note of the starting order (before your formation lap) and comparing it to your qualification results? I'd be willing to bet they'll be the same and you won't have to do any adjusting on your formation lap,but I'm always trying to collect info on how this system works and this would provide a pretty big chunk of info. If you could share that with me it'd be much appreciated. :)
Click to expand...

Well you are in the right thread 👍
We are total stat-a-holics :D

We'll make sure we take notes for ourselves, and pass on the information.
 
Carlos Fandango
[OT] ...you guys are continuing to do an outstanding job here with this series 👍 [/OT]
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Thanks Jon :)

You should join us, even just for practice sometime.
You certainly know the drivers and community well enough already.

Practices often go on for hours, especially the EU session - 8pm GMT Tuesday - so just be sure to add GTP_3D3Racing to your PSN friends list and drop in anytime. 👍
I know timezones are a problem, but with our new lobby being a 3D3 community lobby, it's basically always open for practice, and generally hanging out ;)
 
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Thanks Marc - I already have 3D3 racing on my friends list in readiness. 8pm GMT Tuesday is 7am Wednesday for me and I'm on my way to work then. All good though, I'm enjoying driving whenever I can and when I'm not, I'm enjoying this and the WRS threads...

Might have to see if I can "work from home" one Wednesday in the near future 💡
 
Carlos Fandango
Might have to see if I can "work from home" one Wednesday in the near future 💡
Click to expand...

It's not uncommon for the 3D3 Flu Bug to strike quickly, and on Wednesdays alone.
I'll get to work on a Wikipedia page for you to show the boss 👍
If it's on the internet, it has to be true :sly:
 
I know this is kind of off topic but I'm digging the HTML that was incorporated in the OP as to the graphics being able to be used as links. I ask the "powers to be" if we had that capability and they said we couldn't utilize basic HTML. Nice job "W" is that capability available only to Mods or can anyone incorporate it?
 
LeftyWright69
I know this is kind of off topic but I'm digging the HTML that was incorporated in the OP as to the graphics being able to be used as links. I ask the "powers to be" if we had that capability and they said we couldn't utilize basic HTML. Nice job "W" is that capability available only to Mods or can anyone incorporate it?
Click to expand...

I predict that you will find that we mere mortals can do it - but not with plain HTML.

More like this:



Which was:


[URL="https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/misc.php?do=bbcode"][IMG]http://www.examiner.com/images/blog/wysiwyg/image/Carnac.jpg[/IMG][/URL]
 
LeftyWright69
I know this is kind of off topic but I'm digging the HTML that was incorporated in the OP as to the graphics being able to be used as links. I ask the "powers to be" if we had that capability and they said we couldn't utilize basic HTML. Nice job "W" is that capability available only to Mods or can anyone incorporate it?
Click to expand...

Do you mean this?



All you have to do is place the picture tag () where you would normally put words.

eg: [URL="https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/showthread.php?p=5855100#post5855100"]General Info[/URL]

Just quote this post, and you'll see what I mean 👍

Edit: Ealirendur beat me to it :sly:
 
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Practice lounge is closed (although of course anyone is free to fire it up). Not much traffic tonight considering all the people that are signed up for the NA race.

Hydro and I did some qualification tests. Basically exit track to pits (not driving into pits). Exit pits on full fuel and cold tires and do warmup lap. Then try to run an aggressive, but clean hot lap. Tricky on this long track and it's going to be a hoot.

Hydro managed a 2'22.7 and I hit a 2'22.9. Both laps had their share of mistakes, but you can't take too many risks either. Neither of us are really up to speed as we didn't run the WRS this week so these times could improve with just a little more practice.

One thing that I thought of as we were doing these quali tests runs... On the final corner of your warm up lap, which gets you on the straight to your hot lap, you have to stay clean. No going wide off track to get a better run to the start. Laps will be penalized 2 secs per incident for going off track starting with the final turn of your warm up lap.

I'll copy this to the quali post above as well.
 
WRP001
Practice lounge is closed (although of course anyone is free to fire it up). Not much traffic tonight considering all the people that are signed up for the NA race.

Hydro and I did some qualification tests. Basically exit track to pits (not driving into pits). Exit pits on full fuel and cold tires and do warmup lap. Then try to run an aggressive, but clean hot lap. Tricky on this long track and it's going to be a hoot.

Hydro managed a 2'22.7 and I hit a 2'22.9. Both laps had their share of mistakes, but you can't take too many risks either. Neither of us are really up to speed as we didn't run the WRS this week so these times could improve with just a little more practice.

One thing that I thought of as we were doing these quali tests runs... On the final corner of your warm up lap, which gets you on the straight to your hot lap, you have to stay clean. No going wide off track to get a better run to the start. Laps will be penalized 2 secs per incident for going off track starting with the final turn of your warm up lap.

I'll copy this to the quali post above as well.
Click to expand...
I haven't touched it yet. :scared:
Look for me either in practice tomorrow or at the back come race time.:lol:

Carlos
Thanks Marc - I already have 3D3 racing on my friends list in readiness. 8pm GMT Tuesday is 7am Wednesday for me and I'm on my way to work then. All good though, I'm enjoying driving whenever I can and when I'm not, I'm enjoying this and the WRS threads...
Click to expand...
You could probably catch some of us in your evening time, I'm calculating 3am for me is 7pm for you, so somewhere in the 4-7pm time for you, you might be able to catch some of us around, I'm guessing maybe tomorrow night.👍
 
So here are the grouping now that the WRS results have been released. Note that not a single entrant in the EU race submitted an official lap this week. 👎 Must be the holiday because it was actually a very fun car/track combo. After practicing on it tonight I really wish I would have had the time to run it.

Anyway, the groupings are based on official submitted time first and then handicap 2nd. If neither is available then you are in the first group. Each race has 4 groups with the larger NA groups consisting of 3 drivers and the smaller EU groups consisting of 2 drivers. In the EU race Pekka and Dom will have the pressure cooker seats. And in the NA race Lucas and Kevin get to show what they've got in their run for pole with all eyes focused on them.

I think we'll space out the two drivers in Group D a full lap apart so all observers can watch their entire hot laps. We'll wait for driver D1 to complete his warm up lap and start his hot lap before releasing the final driver (D2) behind him to begin his warmup lap. A little extra pressure.
 
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:eek: I normally don't get nervous until Wed, but this week I'm nervous NOW!
Nice job, Tim, this looks like fun...I think.
 
WRP001
... Note that not a single entrant in the EU race submitted an official lap this week. 👎 Must be the holiday because it was actually a very fun car/track combo. After practicing on it tonight I really wish I would have had the time to run it.
Click to expand...

I had run my lap and was ready to submit, just to find out that the replay check showed of to be dirty about a half hour before deadline.:ouch:
As you know Tim, I've been a bit busy with behind the scenes work this week. ;);)

I do see a lot of people coming back to the WRS with the kart event though. Hope it's not just for one week...

PS: I'm looking forward to that new qualifying you got there. 👍
 
Speedy6543
I had run my lap and was ready to submit, just to find out that the replay check showed of to be dirty about a half hour before deadline.:ouch:
As you know Tim, I've been a bit busy with behind the scenes work this week. ;);)

I do see a lot of people coming back to the WRS with the kart event though. Hope it's not just for one week...

PS: I'm looking forward to that new qualifying you got there. 👍
Click to expand...

There is a secret magic formula to garnering significant WRS participation -

Well known/easy/shortish track+easy to drive road car+ sports tires+arcade mode without tuning = really high levels of participation.

But I suspect if we just did that every week, things would get a little boring.

The main thing is that combos like that are highly accessible, if you are not one of the best drivers, or you don't know how to tune, or you aren't familiar with some of the newer or longer tracks on the game, it's still easy to step in and go. And we still get high D1 participation rates, because those guys can find all the time the car has to offer in 1 or 2 sessions, and they end up being tight races for tenths.

By choosing the full layout of Cape Ring, I know that I sacrifice some participation, but I think it would be a shame if we never used that layout in WRS, so I went for it.

Next race, we'll have to find another combo that's like Gettin' Groceries, or Mountaineering 101. Those are the types of combos I'm talking about, that bring greater participation.
 
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