Fanatec Announcements: CSW V2 Reviews Out

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lemansfanatic
Good point, I am going to get a good look at all these, I am especially curious about Assetto Corsa for sure. Not sure about what physics engine they are using but any game that pairs DirectX 11 graphics with laser track mapping = YES!!
Edit: As long as they include ALMS/LMS series cars (Or I wouldnt be LeMansfantic)
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It's using the NetKar Pro base to build the game on. To anyone other than ridiculous fanboys, NetKar Pro has the best physics and best FFB out there.
 
fatkrakr
I wonder if a couple pictures of the CSW in production could bring this thread back on topic. 💡 Hey Thomas tell Mr T we would like to speak to him. :sly:
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+1

maybe some leaked early photos or something....
 
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bermudakid
+1

maybe some leaked early photos or something....
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I am pretty sure it looks the same as it has since the beginning. If there are any changes, they are internal. We have already seen shots of the wheel rims in production as well as the base units. There really isn't that much to discover or see.

What makes the CSW unique is the quick release, how the accompanying rims feel and operate, the extra data ports and (for LCD screens, shifters, etc). FFB wise the CSRE should offer a relatively similar experience. If there is a difference it is due to the weight of the QR wheel rims.
 
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paskowitz
I am pretty sure it looks the same as it has since the beginning. If there are any changes, they are internal. We have already seen shots of the wheel rims in production as well as the base unites. There really isn't that much to discover or see.

What makes the CSW unique is the quick release, how the accompanying rims feel and operate, the extra data ports and (for LCD screens, shifters, etc). FFB wise the CSRE should offer a relatively similar experience. If there is a difference it is due to the weight of the QR wheel rims.
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+1

The weight and quality of the rims will most likely be the differentiating factor as well as extra features that aren't possible with the CSR Elite. Even with the T500's normal GT rim versus the F1 rim it's a big difference in feel already. A rim really makes the difference. The extra features are nice as well of course, like LEDs and stuff. But I think the biggest point of doubt for someone to purchase either is Xbox compatibility versus quick release. Personally I would choose for the latter as I drive a wide variety of cars and in games like GT5 when racing with your friends in a lounge you tend to drive all kinds of cars against each other during different races in an evening. So to be able to swap the rims in a few seconds would be awesome for me personally. It certainly beats the slow release of my T500. Cause with that I hardly swap the rim as it takes me more then a minute to do so and involves tools (Philips head screwdriver) and fiddling behind the wheel to unscrew the release. To be honest I think that's too much of a pain to do each time.
 
Also, I think people need to curb their enthusiasm. I am not saying to not look forward to the CSW, but the community reviews are not going to be earth shattering megatons of internet breaking proportions. The wheel is likely going to be good, just like the CSRE. If there are any mechanic issues they will be brought to light. The quality of the wheel rims will be noted. Etc etc. IMO I think the CSP v2s will probably be a bigger step up compared to the CSW vs the CSRE.

Regarding QR vs xbox compatibility, nobody knows what the next-box will do as far as USB protocols are concerned (HID vs XID). I hope they make the switch to HID and protect the sanctity of their system another way. I think Thomas should ask what they are doing and then Mr. T should report it to wikileaks or whatever is the hip internet speakeasy is today.
 
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paskowitz
Also, I think people need to curb their enthusiasm. I am not saying to not look forward to the CSW, but the community reviews are not going to be earth shattering megatons of internet breaking proportions. The wheel is likely going to be good, just like the CSRE. If there are any mechanic issues they will be brought to light. The quality of the wheel rims will be noted. Etc etc. IMO I think the CSP v2s will probably be a bigger step up compared to the CSW vs the CSRE.

Regarding QR vs xbox compatibility, nobody knows what the next-box will do as far as USB protocols is concerned (HID vs XID). I hope they make the switch to HID and protect the sanctity of their system another way. I think Thomas should ask what they are doing and then Mr. T should report it to wikileaks or whatever is the hip internet speakeasy.
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Couldn't agree more and I love that final idea of you. Hehe
 
Psssst, hey you guys, Its me T (i hacked into LeMansfantics profile as to protect my annonymity) shhhh Listen up - my sources say that the new Xbox will utilize the USB capabilities of our upcoming Clubsport wheel. Just keep it quiet okay... also, i have found a way to generate the 1.21 Gigawatts of electricity needed to produce a nuclear reaction that will produce the worlds strongest ffb racing wheel, and I intend to- Oh my God, they found me, I dont know how but they found me. Run for it Marty! Its the Libians!
 
superbike81
Oh and want some proof this wheel is being pushed harder to PC users?

GTPlanet community has 200,000+ members and got one community tester (Mayaman)

iRacing community has 30,000 members and got three community testers selected.
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Total votes on GT planet : 115

Total votes on Iracing : 707

The three winners in the iracing forum have all more votes each than the total votes on GT planet.

If we had a 700+ votes on GT Planet, i think we would have more than one CSW community tester:)
 
lemansfanatic
Psssst, hey you guys, Its me T (i hacked into LeMansfantics profile as to protect my annonymity) shhhh Listen up - my sources say that the new Xbox will utilize the USB capabilities of our upcoming Clubsport wheel. Just keep it quiet okay... also, i have found a way to generate the 1.21 Gigawatts of electricity needed to produce a nuclear reaction that will produce the worlds strongest ffb racing wheel, and I intend to- Oh my God, they found me, I dont know how but they found me. Run for it Marty! Its the Libians!
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I do not buy that rumor for a second. The odds of that actually happening are slimmer than Felipe Massa being 2012 WDC. Microsoft will want more money (which is the reasoning behind the whole the idea that they will tie new games to your console, thus making used game sales and trading of games with friends impossible) and letting us plug just any old wheel in via USB would prevent them from charging peripheral manufacturers bunches of money for the right to (and tools to) develop peripherals for their system.

I wish this would happen, it would be a great thing for us racers and for the sim racing industry as a whole, but I won't believe it until I see Thomas at E3 playing Forza 4 with a CSW.
 
I just wish the hacking community would focus a little less time pirating games and a little more time coming up with a solution to make HID devices work with the 360.
 
paskowitz
I just wish the hacking community would focus a little less time pirating games and a little more time coming up with a solution to make HID devices work with the 360.
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There is a device for sale, but in the tests it rather scores bad, because it only emulates the controller axis by your input of mouse or wheel.
XCM F1 was the name.
The problem with Microsoft is as always and will always be licensing.
 
paskowitz
I just wish the hacking community would focus a little less time pirating games and a little more time coming up with a solution to make HID devices work with the 360.
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Can't be done.

I did heavy research on this matter back in 2009 and here are some quotes and plethora of extremely informative details I've gathered backthan and collected from various Logitech tech-people on than existing Logitech forums I've been monitoring, who were working on their own DriveFX project on X360:

ABOUT THE FF SUPPORT PER-SE
"The game and platform (PC, XBOX, PS2, etc..) must support the control device, not the other way around. Our current wheels are standard HID controllers. If the game and platform offer this support, the wheel will work. So, the gatekeepers to control device support are the game developers and Console developers."
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ABOUT FF SUPORT ON CURRENT X360 HARDWARE:
The DriveFX wheel is, effectively, an Xbox 360 controller that is shaped like a steering wheel and has a force feedback motor in place of the standard vibration motors.

Second, even if Logitech were licensed to make a force feedback wheel for Xbox 360, there are significant technical limitations which prevent these wheels from functioning on on Xbox 360. The Xbox 360 features controller and force feedback architectures (XID, device-based force feedback playback) that are significantly different from the way our wheels work on PC, PS2, or PS3 (HID, host-based force feedback playback). It is not possible to enable Xbox 360 functionality with a software or firmware update.

Logitech understands that our customers wish to use our steering wheels on multiple gaming platforms. We have made significant efforts to ensure that our PC wheel drivers support our PS2 wheels, and our PS2 force feedback SDK supports our PC wheels. PS3 games that support Logitech force feedback also support the same list of wheels. At this point in time, these are the only three platforms with which it is possible to have a single force feedback wheel be compatible. Were it possible to effect a firmware or software change to enable Xbox 360 compatibility with our existing wheels, we would do so. Unfortunately, however, until Logitech is licensed by Microsoft to design and manufacture force feedback wheels, no Logitech force feedback wheels will function on Xbox 360."
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ABOUT G25 AND OTHER FF WHEELS ON X360:
"Everything related to controllers functioning on the Xbox 360 is a matter of whether Microsoft has licensed a company to produce a particular product. The G25 is not licensed by Microsoft as an Xbox 360 product, therefore it cannot work on Xbox 360. If it were a licensed product, it would need to have significant microprocessor, firmware, and PCB layout changes in order for it to work with Microsoft's force feedback scheme for Xbox 360. The way force feedback works on Xbox 360 is extremely different from the Windows method, and the electronics in our current products cannot support it.

I'm afraid I can't comment any further than I already have. The current situation is that Logitech is not licensed by Microsoft to make a force feedback wheel, and the Xbox 360 does force feedback in a very different way than the PC, PS2, or PS3. As I stated earlier, we are aware that our customers want to use the products they purchase on as many platforms as possible, and we work very hard on many fronts to make our products work on as many platforms as possible."
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Also I have digged this post on Forza forums made by guy who was working on the wheels:

MS is using a special USB and input protocol (XID) but more important they decided to use a completely different method of generating FF effects.

On the PC or PS3 FF effects are created in the console and the console only sends out Force commands to the motor (left, right and how strong). This consumes some CPU power.

Therefore MS decided to put a lot of pre-defined FF commands into the IC of the wheel and the console sends something like ("play FF effect #24" = "shaking while driving over rough surface").

This allows the game developer to use more CPU power for graphics and other stuff. And actually the very first FF controllers on PC were using this method as well.

So far the the theory. As programming such commands is difficult for the game developers there is a tendency that many game developers go back using the same force effects as on the PC as a simple Force effect is also just a command (e.g. "play FF effect #1" = "move wheel to left").

But FF is relatively new to the 360 so I am sure that Turn10 will implement it on Forza3 even better than on Forza 2.

MS is charging reasonable royalties but the investment into developing new electronics is huge and also tricky. And there is absolutely no way to make an existing wheel work. Period.

The co-operation with MS is really great and they support us a lot so we will be able to show you a working sample of our wheel with mass production electronics around Christmas."
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No hackers, coders or anyone can bypass this.

But all above also could help to explain the actual scope of challenge that Fanatec very successfully and uniquely overcame with their multiplatform models.

For those interested, this is my original post on this matter from 2009.
 
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Still waiting for an Elite (preordered) but more I read about the way XID works, more I think it may be more future proof to buy a CSW.

I have never played Forza with a wheel, and have read a lot about FFB not been as good as GT5.

So if the next Xbox use hid, I will have bought an Elite only for one game.
 
K_Soze
I have never played Forza with a wheel, and have read a lot about FFB not been as good as GT5.
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It's different but not worse, maybe even a bit better than GT5's in some regards. It's certainly more useful in feeling the slight weight shifts, it just doesn't have much of a feeling of the road surface.

Forza with a CSRE is quite awesome, not something I could say about my previous Fanatec GT2, the force feedback was so heavy and clumsy in comparison.
 
drugstorecowboy
It's different but not worse, maybe even a bit better than GT5's in some regards. It's certainly more useful in feeling the slight weight shifts, it just doesn't have much of a feeling of the road surface.

Forza with a CSRE is quite awesome, not something I could say about my previous Fanatec GT2, the force feedback was so heavy and clumsy in comparison.
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Thank you very much for your post.
 
The Elite feels fantastic on F1 2011, I just dont like the feeling down the straights in Forza, if you watch a REAL Indycar/ALMS on tv- look at the steering wheel, even on a straight they are getting pounded back and forth with vibrations. I thought that the Elite would replicate that but its just not strong at all on Forza. No feeling whatsoever down the straights. So for me personally, I quit Forza the series, sold the Elite and hopefully I can find a game that has decent realistic levels of forcefeedback strength. I figure if I get a CSW i can at least adjust the strength of the wheel's Ffb to above 100% if the game's max levels are still too weak (Like Forza 4).
 
Selling it is extreme. If its only Forza you dont like with it. And thats a game issue not the wheel.

That and the CSW is not xbox compatible so you cant increase FM4's FFB.
 
Correct, it is a Forza issue, not Elite. I liked the Elite, just wanted to go in a different direction is all. Like i said, F1 2011 was a LOT of fun, and plenty powerful.
Edit: And I dont think I'll miss Forza either.
 
lemansfanatic
Correct, it is a Forza issue, not Elite. I liked the Elite, just wanted to go in a different direction is all. Like i said, F1 2011 was a LOT of fun, and plenty powerful.
Edit: And I dont think I'll miss Forza either.
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Neither will I. Every time I want to go on the Nurburgring I am reminded of just how horribly they modeled it. The NFS Shift series did a better job. It really kills the experience. Enough on that.

NetKar has good FFB. As does Richard Burns Rally and LFS. I still have not settled into iRacing, but I think its more a settings thing than an overall FFB thing.
 
I bought my elite and the csp (used) to try Forza...played it every night for quite some time but it's just not for me, family loves the kinect games though. A friend is buying the wheel but I'm keeping the csp because I like them and its what I use on pc games. I am for sure buying the V2s when they come out because of good experience w/ the V1s.
 
I don't even have Forza, I bought my CSR-Elite because the CSW wasn't available yet. It's been a great wheel (other than the terrible wheel rim) but I'll be happy to sell it once I get my CSW.
 
lemansfanatic
Maybe i can tell you how i fit the niche for an elite and a CSW at the same time. i started the bug with 360 and Forza and controller. Then Forza 2 came out and I knew I wanted more...so I bought a Microsoft wireless racing wheel with Ffb, mounted to a homemade wheelstand. That decision REALLY got the snowball rolling. Next Forza 3 comes out and I wanted more still, so I built a complete cockpit out of wood and painted it in Ferrari red, added cupholders :) So last year Forza 4 comes out and how do you think I feel? I WANT MORE-AGAIN!! So, to continue with my tradition I upgrade to a CSR-ELITE and pedals, upgrade my rig with a butkicker (oooh tactile!) and begin to play. You would think thats the end... But thats where my story goes from casual gamer to sim racer. In truth I was totally underwhelmed with Forza 4 ffb on the Elite. so rather than simply switching to PC racing, i am redoing everything. I just sold my Elite last week, i am selling my Xbox 360, and am currently shopping for: a new iRacing PC, a CSW, CSS, Epson 3010 1080p 3Dprojector, 1-2 more buttkickers (mini LFEs), and I am going to rebuild my cocpit into a complete F1 style rig. In summary, this month after religiously following Forza 1,2,3,4 -im done, consoles are not enough. I will get into iRacing and do it right, finally! I will document my efforts in the coming months.
Sorry for all the backstory, but thats LeMansfanatic in a snapshot, Casual controller gamer brought into sim racing via consoles, and graduating to the next step. "Boldly going where"-ok thats enough you get the picture.
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I am heading down the same road. Have the PS3 and enjoy GT5, but from what I've read Iracing is the way to go. Built a custom SimRig with two Buttkickers, Thrustmaster wheel & shifter. Pedals seem OK, but have never used CS pedals. Want the CST pedals, they look awesome but not cheap. Maybe DIY.
 
This is simply my opinion, but on Forza, the FFB feels fine, it's the way the car drives and looks as you steer it that is off to me. It might be my addicition to iRacing that has me feeling this way, but the steering just feels off in Forza. Now, I do not play Forza or GT5 nearly as much as PC, but, do enough to remember this feeling.

Now, GT5 is slightly better, not in terms of FFB, but steering reaction from me to the game. Again, whereas Forza, it feels like it is +-.2-.3 sec behind. Like an under/over steer issue. Again, part of this is my lack of playing the game enough. But, if you call yourself a simulator, be it, don't act like it.
 
If you want to feel what many consider to the best and most accurate FFB in the consumer racing sim industry, get NetKar Pro, also arguably the best physics and tire model as well. It's also the platform that Assetto Corsa is expanding on.
 
lemansfanatic
The Elite feels fantastic on F1 2011, I just dont like the feeling down the straights in Forza, if you watch a REAL Indycar/ALMS on tv- look at the steering wheel, even on a straight they are getting pounded back and forth with vibrations. I thought that the Elite would replicate that but its just not strong at all on Forza. No feeling whatsoever down the straights. So for me personally, I quit Forza the series, sold the Elite and hopefully I can find a game that has decent realistic levels of forcefeedback strength. I figure if I get a CSW i can at least adjust the strength of the wheel's Ffb to above 100% if the game's max levels are still too weak (Like Forza 4).
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Have you tried any of the new PC sims (iRacing, rFactor 2, CARS)?
I haven't tried rFactor 2 or CARS, but iRacing's FFB is certainly better than FM4's.
 
I know its a little off topic but since there is no real news on Fanatec prods for a while can I ask if anyone knows anything about modding the G27 ffb levels? In this video, at 0:34 seconds in they describe a modified G27 with 3 times the level of ffb, has anyone tried this? If the csw is not powerful enough i wonder if this kind of mod would also be possible.
Anyways, here's my dream setup:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BDMjJTieRBg&sns=em
 
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