Laguna Seca really needs an update

  • Thread starter Dr_Watson
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Dr_Watson

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I haven't watched a race at Laguna Seca in a few years but when I see a modern high-def on-board video the first thing that comes to mind is that PD's old version they've been carrying along since GT2 is really really wrong.



Turn 1 is sharper. Andretti looks completely different but seems the right shape. The straights between corners through all of sector 1 look way too long in GT. The corner onto Rahal has a big dip in it. Corkscrew is way more violent. And everything in general looks completely different with age.

:crazy:
 
I actually agree with you Doc, but didn't they re-map Laguna specifically for GT5 already?

I watched the record ACR lap a while back and it looked totally different, but then I did the same with a Corvette on the Nurburgring, only to find out the lens they use/used for recording changed perception.
 
EDK said a while back that the GT version, at least the track surface, is pretty close after he raced there. He did mention a couple things that were off slightly though. The scenery could definitely use some work. I think he also said he thought the GT was closer to reality than Forza, could be wrong though.
 
CSLACR
I actually agree with you Doc, but didn't they re-map Laguna specifically for GT5 already?
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No. The track profile in GT5 dates back at least to GT4, if not even earlier (probably hasn't been touched since GT3). There was a massive discussion about this in the GT vs. Forza thread where it was proven (regardless of what the person arguing that the track's problems in GT5 were "imaginary" thought), but the long and short of it is that even if the track was accurate in GT4 (which someone who has driven on it in that thread was of the opinion that it likely wasn't), it isn't accurate anymore and hasn't been since before the PS3 even came out, let alone GT5.

The Rahal Straight on the entrance to the corkscrew is completely different now than how it is in GT5, as the video Zer0 provided helpfully shows (iRacing got it right. Forza and GT5 did not). Most of the track landmarks also aren't in anywhere near the right location. A lot of the turn profiles are wrong. Many of the track runoffs (like on the start/finish straight) are wildly incorrect. Off the top of my head.




The long and short of it is, neither GT or Forza do it completely right, but Forza is much closer.
 
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Looks like splitting hairs on that video of all 3.
iRacing is apparently the most up to date, FM looks the most real, and GT5 has the best visuals.

All fail somewhere, all succeed somewhere, a combo of all three would be the actual exact track it seems.
 
Once you drive the track in iRacing, you realize how wrong it is in GT5. In GT5, the track surface is completely flat compared to iRacing. If you don't take the hairpin just right, it wants to spin you around in circles right in the center because of the way the track drops off. The three corners after that are decent in GT5, but after that, the track is completely different from iRacing, and the track in iRacing is a 100% perfect representation of the track on the day they laser scanned it. In iRacing, you have to brake and shift down for the kink in most cars, and in GT5, you can take it almost flat out. Going into the corkscrew from the Rahal straight is also completely different. In iRacing, you have to brake way before the crest, because when you hit the crest, the track really drops down and goes to the right. But in GT5, the track feels like it is straight there, and you can brake after the rumble strip starts in a lot of cars. In my opinion, this is the worst track in GT5 simply because it is so wrong.
 
I think it's one of worst modelled circuits visually, just look at the buildings next to the start finish straight, they look like Lego houses, and those ugly cones also bah.

Prefer the old GT version of laguna seca, that one had more of a desert atmosphere, with the sun going down over the horizon.
 
mister dog
I think it's one of worst modelled circuits visually, just look at the buildings next to the start finish straight, they look like Lego houses, and those ugly cones also bah.

Prefer the old GT version of laguna seca, that one had more of a desert atmosphere, with the sun going down over the horizon.
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Yeah, Laguna Seca in GT3 was very nice visually.
 
Meh. It's a track. If you are using GT5 to prep for your big race at Mazda Raceway then you could do better. But, if you want to race a fun circuit then it works just fine.
 
Dr_Watson
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I would just like to point out that this is the same Sean Johnston that came in 2nd place in the GT Academy USA 2011.

Also, having driven Laguna Seca IRL and driven the track in iRacing, there are differences. I do wish PD could remake Laguna Seca as it is one of my favorite tracks. :drool:
 
iracing is the most accurate and the issues laser scanning picks up like camber, bumps and elevation change do matter. If I were developing a sim and not laser scanning I would get a subscription to iracing for all my track modelers and have them use it as a reference (along with real wold data)... particularly for the bumps, camber etc.

PD could do a better job with Laguna Seca than they did... they have done a really nice job with some other real life tracks such as Nordschleife and Spa. But I think Laguna Seca is serviceable as is in GT5-- it isn't bad, just not as good as it could be. BTW, pCARS has a great feel in their version of the corkscrew. You really 'feel' the elevation change very well.
 
Just a theory, but I think the reason we have many of the real world circuits that we do is that they are out of date versions, which allows PD to acquire tracks that would otherwise be locked in the licensing deals that go with the big race series' that other game companies currently control.

We have an out of date Daytona, Indy and Laguna and Suzuka and an inaccurate Monaco. It's a workaround.

PD and GT are big sponsors of the endurance races at the Ring, Spa and La Sarthe, so the partnership there makes sense.
 
On that video, I really couldn't call it between GT and Forza. The track itself seems identical and they only major difference I can see is the bridge is too far back in GT5 (0:59). IRacing seems to have more camber to it's corners and the run up to the corkscrew is straighter, but given that GT's model is quite old now, resurfacing of the track in the years since could have altered it.
 
Just a heads up; If you want to have a closer look at Laguna Seca, go to Google maps > streetview and be amazed.

Pitlane and paddock included.
 
wow, that Forza one looks so much better than GT, the way the sun glares through the clouds, the off-track details and shadows, the GT version looks so sterile, guess the PS3 has it's limits.
 


Watch from 0:20-0:45.

Look to the left and middle in the background. Try not to laugh at how PD makes Laguna Seca, which means "Dry lake", so green.

Forza and iRacing modeled it perfectly. It's dry, brownish dirt, and has paths up and down the ridge.

-10, PD. Anyways, it's been noted that this is likely a "standard" track.
 
Laguna Seca is more greenish or brownish depending on the season.

laguna_seca04s.jpg
 
Forgetful
Just a theory, but I think the reason we have many of the real world circuits that we do is that they are out of date versions, which allows PD to acquire tracks that would otherwise be locked in the licensing deals that go with the big race series' that other game companies currently control.

We have an out of date Daytona, Indy and Laguna and Suzuka and an inaccurate Monaco. It's a workaround.

PD and GT are big sponsors of the endurance races at the Ring, Spa and La Sarthe, so the partnership there makes sense.
Click to expand...
Is there any evidence to suggest PD cannot update real-world tracks, or just a random guess?

Spa is brand new, and the Ring and Sarthe were just remodeled, Suzuka was only remodeled half-assed.
So no, unless I see evidence that suggest PD has a license for outdated tracks and cannot get newer versions due to being locked out, this sounds like a typical excuse to me.

CorvetteConquer
Watch from 0:20-0:45.

Look to the left and middle in the background. Try not to laugh at how PD makes Laguna Seca, which means "Dry lake", so green.

Forza and iRacing modeled it perfectly. It's dry, brownish dirt, and has paths up and down the ridge.

-10, PD. Anyways, it's been noted that this is likely a "standard" track.
Click to expand...
Good thing there are four seasons, eh?
 
CSLACR
Good thing there are four seasons, eh?
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Sure, if you're on the east coast.

We're talking about Monterey, California.

We're talking about PD, whose grassy textures have remained overused and boring for quite some time.

Please, think BIG. Laguna Seca = dry lake. Tendency toward lovely grassy fields or gritty, dry and brown dirt? Since it's a GT4 track, I cannot totally blame PD, but I imagine it'll look different in time.

Again, think BIG as Turn10 and iRacing have.

And to make this a thorough post, let me add that Freeman's added pic is of the second to last turn on the track. This is not the location that the argument is referring to.

Not angry, just thorough :)
 
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ROYALEFATALE
wow, that Forza one looks so much better than GT, the way the sun glares through the clouds, the off-track details and shadows, the GT version looks so sterile, guess the PS3 has it's limits.
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That was basically my sentiments ever since I picked up GT5 in 2010. In fact, I was going to use exactly that word - "sterile". Since I'm not a professional race driver that has been to the actual circuits, I can't say that this version's track surface was more accurate here in this way and that one did such-and-such wrong, but aesthetically Forza beats GT every time.

I don't like how Turn 10 sort of ruined the Nordschleife in FM4 by making it fog-only, consequently making it less visually-pleasing than in FM3, but while Turn 10 are known for having deliberately up-scaled the track a bit (dimensions are bigger), the track looked better in FM3 than it does in GT5. I remember a year or so ago looking at comparison videos of The Ring, and I mixed up which I was looking at. I thought one was FM3 versus real life, but it was actually GT5 versus FM3. The images I thought were obviously in-game video was from GT5 and the one I thought was reality was FM3.
 
ROYALEFATALE
wow, that Forza one looks so much better than GT, the way the sun glares through the clouds, the off-track details and shadows, the GT version looks so sterile, guess the PS3 has it's limits.
Click to expand...

You honestly think that looked real......The last corner on the Forza track looks to me like the track is made of polished glass and they got Michael Bay in to do the lighting. GT looks far more life like.
 

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