2012 Belgian Grand Prix

homeforsummer · Sep 6, 2012

hawkeye122
Thats pure speculation based on Alonso's declining pace, and Vettel being on the upswing. Alonso is good, but the Ferrari isn't really on the same level as the Red Bull or McLaren in terms of pace.

How'd you work that one out? Alonso qualified ahead of Vettel - who didn't even get into Q3 - and got taken out on the first corner. So Spa was absolutely no yardstick for their relative pace. Hungary he was one tenth quicker in qualifying and only one position ahead in the race. Germany Alonso put it on pole, and won. Britain, Alonso put it on pole and finished 2nd to Vettel's third.

The last race where Vettel was consistently quicker than Alonso was Valencia, and Vettel retired at that one anyway - and Alonso won.

Where's this mystical pace that Alonso is losing? The only time in the last several races that he's lost any great points tally to Vettel was a race in which he got smashed out on the first corner. I'd certainly go nowhere near saying that "Vettel has the championship wrapped up"... particularly as there are still drivers like Button and Hamilton who are capable of taking points away from both Vettel and Alonso, and doubtless a few others on the grid who are capable of juggling the order too.

Barra333
You are right, Fernando's pace was rubbish for almost the entirety of this race.

Yeah, he was slow as hell after that first corner.

Oh, wait...

niky · Sep 6, 2012

homeforsummer
Yeah, he was slow as hell after that first corner.

Oh, wait...

Doesn't help if you have to get out of the car to walk...

Pace in qualifying last weekend doesn't mean much. With the freak weather and lack of dry running, many of the teams were simply not set up properly for the race. Otherwise the gap to McLaren from the field shouldn't have been that big.

I'm pretty sure Ferrari and Red Bull will be close in the next one, as long as the skies don't play weather roulette during practice.

m8h3r · Sep 6, 2012

niky
Doesn't help if you have to get out of the car to walk...

Still takes the corner quicker than Narain Karthekyian... :sly:

hornet_burnout · Sep 9, 2012

Only managed to get a look at this now and... Well, without taking away the need to ban Grosjean, he got banned for taking out main tittle contenders. And Maldonado got his 1st penalty down from 5 to 3 places cause he wasn't enough of a nuisance to really hurt Hulkenberg.

So now there's also an 'artistic note' for judging racing incidents?

I do not like this 'subjective' rulling one bit.

Bye Ya · Sep 9, 2012

hornet_burnout
Well, without taking away the need to ban Grosjean, he got banned for taking out main tittle contenders.

I'm not exactly sure I understand what you are trying to say. If you are saying that he only got banned because he took out title contenders... did you miss the part where his car nearly took Alonso's head off? He's too aggressive at the start of races, and this time there was a chance of someone being very seriously injured.

F1 fan · Sep 9, 2012

I didn't see David coulthard getting a ban for a similar incident with Alex Wurz back in 2007. And if you ask me, that incident was worse.

DaxCobra · Sep 9, 2012

F1 fan
I didn't see David coulthard getting a ban for a similar incident with Alex Wurz back in 2007. And if you ask me, that incident was worse.

Was that at Melbourne? I think I remember that, that's the reason they brought the side of the cockpit higher I think...

I don't think we can compare penalties to previous years because they have got stricter, and rightly so.

Centura · Sep 9, 2012

I think that the issue with penalties is that they are given out based on the result of an incident and not what caused the incident.

Imagine if Hamilton and Grosjean was alone on the track and the same incident happened. There's no way he would receive a one race ban.

However, I still think that a one race ban was the right decision. Why? Because of Grosjean's season so far. He have been involved in too many incidents, especially ones on the first lap.

F1 fan · Sep 9, 2012

DaxCobra
Was that at Melbourne? I think I remember that, that's the reason they brought the side of the cockpit higher I think...

That's the one. And that was the reason for the higher cockpit sides.

DaxCobra
I don't think we can compare penalties to previous years because they have got stricter, and rightly so.

Have they? The 10 second stop and go has all but been abolished. The penalties are completely inconsistent and don't seem to take precedent into consideration.

ROAD_DOGG33J · Sep 10, 2012

hornet_burnout
So now there's also an 'artistic note' for judging racing incidents?

I do not like this 'subjective' rulling one bit.

To be honest stewards are human. I could see them handing out a ban because they were pissed off that the race was ruined for them. Then they can just say the move was reckless. We can't really look in their heads.

hornet_burnout · Sep 10, 2012

They wrote it:

http://twitpic.com/aqfad4

Grosjean's mistake was serious as far as his contact with Hamilton, the rest were also serious but none the less side effects.

What if a wheel had hit a marshal? Would they have banned him for life? Where is it written how much is needed to get a ban instead of starting last in the next race, or 10 positions down, according to exactly who you hit? If it were just the Sauber, would it be ok then?

And yes I saw it. I saw how drivers that risk their lives everytime they go on the track almost got injured. Some of my favorite drivers even, and had their races ruined. But that is racing.

If they had stated "deliberately ran Hamilton off the track" I'd agree more with a ban than "took out tittle contenders". That is no reason to agravate what would possibly be a "start last" penalty to a race ban.

Same way I don't agree downgrading Maldonado's 1st penalty to 3 places cause it was 'just Hulkenberg and wasn't hurt that bad'. They either penalize him with the usual 5 places, or let it slide.

Imari · Sep 10, 2012

Centura
Imagine if Hamilton and Grosjean was alone on the track and the same incident happened. There's no way he would receive a one race ban.

I sort of see what you're saying, but I do think that drivers should be held to a higher standard of driving on the first laps, and especially into the first corner. If Hamilton and Grosjean are racing alone the potential for injury is (relatively) limited. With a whole field of cars plowing into the same corner together things can get much worse, much faster. As we saw.

I think the severity was warranted, simply because of the timing. That same move 5 laps later would have got him a drive through or a grid drop instead of a ban.

I still don't agree with the stewards reasoning of "took out title contenders" though, for what it's worth.

hornet_burnout · Sep 10, 2012

That is my point.

Like I said, though I think it's harsh (there hasn't been a ban since 1994, and when a driver plows through T1 usually gets a start last in the next race), I can live with it, considering he 'could' have hurt someone (as stated), or not seeing Hamilton was some proof of recklessness. Team and driver accepted it as well, and haven't even said a word against it.

But "it eliminated championship contenders from the race" as a reason for imposing or aggravating a penalty, states there are drivers that can't be taken out - or there will be serious consequenses, and there are others that it's ok - you might get away with it with no penalty or just a slap on the wrist.

It's not just subjective, it's biased and unfair to remaining championship contenders. Because they all are.

Barra333 · Sep 17, 2012

OK, I know it is a little after the fact now, but here are a few pictures I took during the weekend...

Pit Walk on Thursday

The wonderful weather that was Friday

In the Shell promo tent (I'm in the green jacket)

GP2, lap 1 Saturday (from my grandstand seat)

Driver's parade

Post race

Hun200kmh · Sep 17, 2012

Lucky man, I wish was there too, thanks for sharing your pics!

👍

Barra333 · Sep 18, 2012

Hun200kmh
Lucky man, I wish was there too, thanks for sharing your pics! 👍

Cheers, I was in Europe anyway, and realised the race was the weekend after my other commitments finished. Once I got spending permission, it was on.

There are a few more pics and a bit more of a write up here.

MarcoM · Sep 18, 2012

Nice pics man. Post race is fun

2012 Belgian Grand Prix

homeforsummer

Bonbonbonbons!

niky

Karma Chameleon

m8h3r

hornet_burnout

Bye Ya

F1 fan

Thin Lizzy fan.

DaxCobra

Centura

F1 fan

Thin Lizzy fan.

ROAD_DOGG33J

hornet_burnout

Imari

hornet_burnout

Barra333

Hun200kmh

Barra333

MarcoM

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