◆ SNAIL [Spec] Racing - Currently Recruiting for GT7 - JOIN TODAY!!Open 

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Handlebar
For simplicity, I'd go with:

10 min qualifying to set grid for race #1.

Race #1 - grid is slowest to fastest.
Races 2-6 - reverse grid based on last race results.
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How about this? If someone is failing to follow the qualifying rules and a complaint is raised they go on probation for their next race night. If they get a complaint while on probation they must sit out all qualifying on their next race night.

Any thoughts?
 
Well, last night i was a little on the down side, sorry Handlebar for talking my a** off.
First of all, sorry in advance to everyone i bumped, scratched and pushed while racing poorly. The bad racing was the result of adding bad skills with no practice. But i was really turned down when in all races i got pushed around really bad. Even in qualifying laps ( wtf ?? ).
I know i have to press charges and complaints, i will try to look at the replay's to get some.
But please, at least on Div5 people, try to say sorry less, and really trying to be fair and real with your driving.

Ok that it's still only a game, but there are real people playing it, remember that .
What i mean by that shows out in my example:
I live in Portugal, 5 hours ahead from the majority of Div5 players. I need to stay awake until 3am just to start racing. I wait all those hours, and when i race, besides my own mistakes i need to also add people ramming me off the race ? i mean , Sorry does not bring it all back.
 
jobyone
How about this? If someone is failing to follow the qualifying rules and a complaint is raised they go on probation for their next race night. If they get a complaint while on probation they must sit out all qualifying on their next race night.

Any thoughts?
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I won't qualify in race one and I'll 1st place on the grid, then win more points.
Give pole position more points or people will just not qualify
 
The problem remains that it's just too hard to police it. There are no replays and most of what you can notice as a problem is either hearsay or speculation.

I'm all for removing all or at least two qualification periods and extending the races to 12 minutes each (or more). I'm not much good at qualifying, anyway.

Scenario:

10 minutes qualifying
6 x 12 minute races

82 driving minutes - down from the 90 we use now but with more racing action. ;)

I'll bet, though, that without all the qualifying we'd save a lot of downtime between races as people muddle about. We could probably run it up to 14 minute races and better stay within the two hour time frame.

10 minute qualifying
6 x 14 minute races
94 minutes total - gives 26 minutes for everything else that goes on.


Admittedly, any such change would be a major one to how SNAIL operates and make a big difference in the outcomes. Also, this plan does not eliminate qualification entirely, making it still necessary for those who can't seem to figure it out to get it together.


*disclaimer: I suck at hot laps anyway, so I've no mind to keep them*
 
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Longer races and no qualifing would be great in my mind. Just start the first race based on the results from the previous weeks points and reverse grid races 2-6. The longer races might also breed some more patience among drivers if they know they have more time to get to the front. It would take a manual lineup for race one but you could run it out to 16 minute races if we wanted and still be done in time.
 
This is madness. We don't need to have the hassle of changing the entire night's procedure that's worked for almost a year just because someone at PD fixed the wind in freerun. Learn how to qualify effectively and all these problems will go away.

Qualifying is 10 minutes, usually enough time for 4-6 hot laps. Give up your out lap and maybe your first timed lap (as tires aren't optimal yet) to get room on the track to run the remaining qualifying laps.

If you had a buffer around you starting your qualifying, and you find later on that you don't, either you messed up somewhere and your lap isn't going to be quicker anyways, or someone is much faster than you and has caught you, which means getting the draft behind you isn't beneficial because you being in front of him is slowing you down.

If we can get more used to having to be spatially aware during qualifying as well as during a race, we don't need to have this discussion and try to change what doesn't need to be changed.

If you guys really want a "fix" to the "advantage" of draft and you are the lead car, move over a lane on the straight, and implement a rule saying that intentional draft in qualy is illegal, but make it the lead car's responsibility to move the following car out of the draft since some won't care about another drafting, and some will.
 
Honestly I think everyone is making a mountain out of a molehill here. Is there anyone who legitimately thinks that whatever qualifying shenanigans went down last last actually effected the overall outcome of their division? I can say for sure that I don't believe that to be the case in Div 2.

Look at what some of you are saying. Random staring grids?!? What you're saying is that you'd rather have your starting position decided at random than deal with the element of risk that comes inherent to qualifying multiple cars at once.

As far as longer races go, we have a SNAIL affiliated endurance series if you're into that kind of thing. The races we run now are the perfect distance. Any shorter and things turn into a g-w-c restart (I still remember when SNAIL ran 9 races per night rather than 6), any longer and we open up a whole can of worms involving pit stops, drivers sandbagging to save their tires, lapped traffic, and the difficulty of focusing for extended periods of time late at night. Plus things would suck even more for the backmarkers if they had to run for 20 minutes by themselves instead of 10.

I'm not saying these things because I get an advantage from the current format. I don't. I'm an average qualifier at best, and I've never won a prize under the current divisional format. I'm just warning everyone that if they make a rash call on this issue, the quality of RACING (this league is about racing, qualifying is just an extra) could suffer.
 
VELOCI_2NR
This is madness. We don't need to have the hassle of changing the entire night's procedure that's worked for almost a year just because someone at PD fixed the wind in freerun. Learn how to qualify effectively and all these problems will go away.

Qualifying is 10 minutes, usually enough time for 4-6 hot laps. Give up your out lap and maybe your first timed lap (as tires aren't optimal yet) to get room on the track to run the remaining qualifying laps.

If you had a buffer around you starting your qualifying, and you find later on that you don't, either you messed up somewhere and your lap isn't going to be quicker anyways, or someone is much faster than you and has caught you, which means getting the draft behind you isn't beneficial because you being in front of him is slowing you down.

If we can get more used to having to be spatially aware during qualifying as well as during a race, we don't need to have this discussion and try to change what doesn't need to be changed.

If you guys really want a "fix" to the "advantage" of draft and you are the lead car, move over a lane on the straight, and implement a rule saying that intentional draft in qualy is illegal, but make it the lead car's responsibility to move the following car out of the draft since some won't care about another drafting, and some will.
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👍👍
 
I like qualifying as it usually ends up being my first practice laps of the week :)

Let's just chill, issue warnings/fines and let it not happen again.
 
racefan78
What you're saying is that you'd rather have your starting position decided at random than deal with the element of risk that comes inherent to qualifying multiple cars at once.
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Few are advocating that, though I'm not entirely against it. More are saying to base the first race off of something, then reverse field for the rest.

As far as longer races go, we have a SNAIL affiliated endurance series if you're into that kind of thing.
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That's not even close enough to make a comparison...

…any longer and we open up a whole can of worms involving pit stops, drivers sandbagging to save their tires, lapped traffic, and the difficulty of focusing for extended periods of time late at night.
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Pit stops would not be an issue. Even the S2000 last night could have easily made it another few minutes. Saving tires is a valid race tactic; sandbagging to the point of being slow would not work. Lapped traffic is a potential issue in any race. I don't imagine there would be much more of it if races were extended a few minutes. Finally, the total driving time would be about the same, there would just be more time spent racing instead of qualifying.

Plus things would suck even more for the backmarkers if they had to run for 20 minutes by themselves instead of 10.
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Ignoring you exaggeration: Perhaps. But at least they know that the next race will put them in the front no matter which it is. You don't get that for the second races now.

I'm just warning everyone that if they make a rash call on this issue, the quality of RACING (this league is about racing, qualifying is just an extra) could suffer.
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It could but I doubt it. What I do know is that the amount would increase. Anymore, I only get to race on Sunday nights. Anything to increase the amount of actual racing that happens those nights is fine by me.
 
Hello all,


I'd like to join your group here... Seems like a great thing you have going on.

Thanks,

Josh

Naptown25rs (NCemtB)
 
Heavy breathing and over-reaching analogies aside...

I can see the benefit of running some of the qualifying laps, if you hadn't run them before. I see the benefit of having slightly longer races to increase the possible patience factor for timely passing. Spelling out what is expected in qualifying is good, but not very easy to enforce.

As for drawbacks, I also know the pain of running in D-F-Last for an entire race. Even starting in a reverse grid, one shove on your rear quarterpanel, even accidentally, and you're sightseeing... once again, as Outlaw alluded to. Making it 20 minutes of sightseeing would be more than I would want to bear, especially several times a night.

(I truly enjoy being able to have these discussions, and how seldom they devolve below 'discussions of ideas'. Is this really on the internet?)
 
Naptown25rs
Hello all,

I'd like to join your group here... Seems like a great thing you have going on.

Thanks,

Josh

Naptown25rs (NCemtB)
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Hey Naptown25rs,

Glad you you want to race with S.N.A.I.L. 👍 We like to think we do :) If nothing else we have fun discussing it :lol:

Please read the following:

We run a clean league by enforcing the S.N.A.I.L. OLR and we expect all of our drivers to know and follow The Good Racecraft Guide.
Please become versed in both.

Follow These Steps:
1. I add you to the drivers list as a New S.N.A.I.L. (Done)
2. You run the Time Trial.
3. You Private Message my GTPlanet account with your time from the time trial (no Sunday racing until this is completed).
4. I assign you to the appropriate Division, to give you the best racing possible.
5. A PSN friend request will be sent from the appropriate SNAIL_Division1, 2, 3, 4 or 5 account. That is where you race on Sunday night.
6. You drive fast and clean on Sunday :)

The first post has all the rules and regulations for S.N.A.I.L. It is the first place you need to check if you have a question. If it's not answered there, feel free to post your question on the thread.

The second post has the current race lineup for Sunday and is updated weekly.

If you have a preference for car/wheel colour and racing number, post your choices in this thread.
To avoid duplication, the currently claimed combinations can be found here.

During the week we run a number of different events, we encourage all S.N.A.I.L.s to join as many as possible.

Welcome aboard and enjoy :)
 
Send drivers out one at a time at 10 second intervals for qualifying. Everyone gets their out lap and one timed lap and then you pull off the track. There's enough gap to keep drivers away from one another and it could easily be done within the ten minutes allotted for qualifying even if it had to be done in two groups.

It's just another though I had.
 
JLBowler
Send drivers out one at a time at 10 second intervals for qualifying. Everyone gets their out lap and one timed lap and then you pull off the track. There's enough gap to keep drivers away from one another and it could easily be done within the ten minutes allotted for qualifying even if it had to be done in two groups.

It's just another though I had.
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We've talked about this before, I like the idea. Puts the pressure on to get it done, one lap, one chance 👍

It could be a logistical nightmare though. Not all S.N.A.I.L.s read all the instructions and to manage the explanation the night of ...
 
JLBowler
Send drivers out one at a time at 10 second intervals for qualifying. Everyone gets their out lap and one timed lap and then you pull off the track. There's enough gap to keep drivers away from one another and it could easily be done within the ten minutes allotted for qualifying even if it had to be done in two groups.

It's just another though I had.
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I like this idea 👍
 
Handlebar
Heavy breathing and over-reaching analogies aside...

I can see the benefit of running some of the qualifying laps, if you hadn't run them before. I see the benefit of having slightly longer races to increase the possible patience factor for timely passing. Spelling out what is expected in qualifying is good, but not very easy to enforce.

As for drawbacks, I also know the pain of running in D-F-Last for an entire race. Even starting in a reverse grid, one shove on your rear quarterpanel, even accidentally, and you're sightseeing... once again, as Outlaw alluded to. Making it 20 minutes of sightseeing would be more than I would want to bear, especially several times a night.

(I truly enjoy being able to have these discussions, and how seldom they devolve below 'discussions of ideas'. Is this really on the internet?)
Click to expand...

Rather than reply to everyone's posts on these topics, I'm just going to reply to Handlebar's since he does a nice job summarizing some of the thoughts and ideas that have been expressed this morning.

First or all, I don't believe we should change the qualifying process just because there is a small percentage of drivers who don't understand the proper etiquette yet. And although I encourage everyone to follow this process if they have a complaint about qualifying, it would be even better if the complaining were done during (or even before) the qualifying.

Since Kaz and Co decided to grace us with the gift known as 2.08, we've not had a one single qualifying/drafting issue in D3. I think part of the reason for this is because I am on the mic at the beginning of each round sounding like a broken record and reminding everyone of the correct qualifying etiquette over and over. Here are some of the things that I say:
  • "Everyone space out immediately after exiting pit row. Don't wait until the end of your outlap to space out - that will just cause everyone to get bunched up at the start of the qualifying laps. Space out right now!"
  • "Be sure to give the person in front of you about a 10 second cushion (slightly less if it's a shorter track). Hey you! That's not much of a cushion!"
  • "If you pull up behind someone during qualifying because because you didn't give them enough cushion to begin with, it's YOUR fault! It doesn't matter that you're a second faster per lap, it's YOUR fault for not giving the proper cushion to begin with. You need to hit the brakes and ruin your qualifying lap. Hopefully, you learn a lesson and and will give the proper cushion next time."
  • "If you have an off or a shortcut penalty or are slowed down for whatever reason and it has resulted in someone pulling behind you and potentially into your draft, it's YOUR fault! You need to pull off the driving line and wait for an opening where there's enough room for you to resume your qualifying."

Ask anyone in D3 and they'll tell you they've heard these quotes almost verbatim week after week. I would like to ask every director or steward to make sure things like this are repeated at the beginning of each round. After a while, it might not be necessary to repeat this over and over. However, since everyone is still learning this new process, it's not a bad idea to over-communicate our expectations on the matter.

As far as removing qualifying in favor of slightly longer races, I don't like the idea because I think it the qualifying sessions improve the quality of racing during the actual races. They give everyone ten minutes to familiarize themselves with the combo if they haven't had a chance to practice it yet, or re-familiarize themselves with it if they've practiced it, but just need a quick refresher - especially at the end of the night when they have completely different combos on their mind. IMO, eliminating the ten minutes to qualify/practice before each round would result in a much higher number of first laps offs and drastic decrease in side-by side or bumper-to-bumper racing.
 
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zer05ive
Rather than reply to everyone's posts on these topics, I'm just going to reply to Handlebar's since he does a nice job summarizing some of the thoughts and ideas that have been expressed this morning.

First or all, I don't believe we should change the qualifying process just because there is a small percentage of drivers who don't understand the proper etiquette yet. And although I encourage everyone to follow this process if they have a complaint about qualifying, it would be even better if the complaining were done during (or even before) the qualifying.

Since Kaz and Co decided to grace us with the gift known as 2.08, we've not had a one single qualifying/drafting issue in D3. I think part of the reason for this is because I am on the mic at the beginning of each round sounding like a broken record and reminding everyone of the correct qualifying etiquette over and over. Here are some of the things that I say:
  • "Everyone space out immediately after exiting pit row. Don't wait until the end of your outlap to space out - that will just cause everyone to get bunched up at the start of the qualifying laps. Space out right now!"
  • "Be sure to give the person in front of you about a 10 second cushion (slightly less if it's a shorter track). Hey you! That's not much of a cushion!"
  • "If you pull up behind someone during qualifying because because you didn't give them enough cushion to begin with, it's YOUR fault! It doesn't matter that you're a second faster per lap, it's YOUR fault for not giving the proper cushion to begin with. You need to hit the brakes and ruin your qualifying lap. Hopefully, you learn a lesson and and will give the proper cushion next time."
  • "If you have an off or a shortcut penalty or are slowed down for whatever reason and it has resulted in someone pulling behind you and potentially into your draft, it's YOUR fault! You need to pull off the driving line and wait for an opening where there's enough room for you to resume your qualifying."

Ask anyone in D3 and they'll tell you they've heard these quotes almost verbatim week after week. I would like to ask every director or steward to make sure things like this are repeated at the beginning of each round. After a while, it might not be necessary to repeat this over and over. However, since everyone is still learning this new process, it's not a bad idea to over-communicate our expectations on the matter.

As far as removing qualifying in favor of slightly longer races, I don't like the idea because I think it the qualifying sessions improve the quality of racing during the actual races. They give everyone ten minutes to familiarize themselves with the combo if they haven't had a chance to practice it yet, or re-familiarize themselves with it if they've practiced it, but just need a quick refresher - especially at the end of the night when they have completely different combos on their mind. IMO, eliminating the ten minutes to qualify/practice before each round would result in a much higher number of first laps offs and drastic decrease in side-by side or bumper-to-bumper racing.
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The PTB has spoken:tup:
 
The Qualifying is great for each race. The problem is to many people in a or each division. I (or my 2 cents) is that there should be a room with 6 to 8 racers. If I won the first race then I would be starting in 6th or 8th place whitch would be a rider per lap to win the second race. You could have a Division, class group. Ex: D3A or D3B. The A group would be the top 6 in points and B the rest. To many people in a room with a small track is just asking for trouble...Just my opionion...
 
KuulKrinne
Congratz Danger ;)
but 1 question.. why veloci won prize A if danger also have 97 points.. how did you decided in there?
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Limit of 1 prize A per division per month.

CthulhuGoat in D4 and Count210 in D5 have already won Prize A in October, fwiw.
 
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kendawg
The Qualifying is great for each race. The problem is to many people in a or each division. I (or my 2 cents) is that there should be a room with 6 to 8 racers. If I won the first race then I would be starting in 6th or 8th place whitch would be a rider per lap to win the second race. You could have a Division, class group. Ex: D3A or D3B. The A group would be the top 6 in points and B the rest. To many people in a room with a small track is just asking for trouble...Just my opionion...
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And when folks don't show up en masse, or there is a dip, would you like a field of 3? How many directors would show up each week?

That's a large number of committed bodies if we went to something like 9 or 10 divisions to meet that hypothetical goal of 6-8, and there is an assumption that the drivers will read where they need to be, and be there in the correct numbers for enough racers.

That's not an easy task to pull off in a once-a-week, free, fun, recreational racing league. Creating penalties for not-showing up would negatively affect the goal of higher participation and fun. I'd stick with the 'as is' on this, personally.
 

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