Forza 4 VS GT5 (read the first post before you contribute)

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Cassius101
The only people I insulted were the Developers, I did not insult anyone on this site. I think most would agree with me that the developers of Gran Turismo games are bias toward Japanese cars simply because they have to much pride and are Japanese.
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Simply because that's what most people would do. Even with the Japanese bias and duplicates, GT5 car list is pretty solid, it also gives GT an identity. Forza 4 has a more appealing car list but meh... just like hot ''stupid'' blondes, they get boring after a while.
 
PepeMickey
Simply because that's what most people would do.
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Just because that's "what most people would do" doesn't make it right for both the consumer and the shareholder. Also, I'm not sure that's what most people would do. Do you have any evidence to back that claim up? And don't say that it's common sense — because it's not.

PepeMickey
Even with the Japanese bias and duplicates, GT5 car list is pretty solid, it also gives GT an identity.
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What "identity" does it give GT? The game that includes a couple hundred, poorly-rendered econoboxes and thirty Skylines?

If the identity is "the game with lots of Japanese cars in it", well I don't really think that's true because Forza arguably does a better job than GT in that respect, especially since all of their Japanese cars are rendered in current-gen quality with cockpit views.

And even if GT's identity was "the game with lots of Japanese cars in it", is that really a stronger identity than the game that includes nearly every enthusiast-aimed passenger vehicle ever made?

PepeMickey
Forza 4 has a more appealing car list but meh... just like hot ''stupid'' blondes, they get boring after a while.
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That's a terrible analogy because Forza's car list has substance.

In general, it always boggles my mind when people try to claim that GT's car list is comparable to Forza 4's. They never have anything objective to say.

As I've mentioned before, Forza 4's car list contains nearly every significant, enthusiast-aimed passenger vehicle ever produced (lol at the guy who tries to dispute this by posting a list of ten or so lesser-talked-about vehicles that Forza 4 doesn't have) in HD quality while GT5 is missing literally hundreds of staples in the enthusiast community. Anyone who prefers the GT5 car list just flat-out doesn't appreciate the world's automobile history or doesn't appreciate car-enthusiast culture.
 
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PepeMickey
Simply because that's what most people would do. Even with the Japanese bias and duplicates, GT5 car list is pretty solid, it also gives GT an identity. Forza 4 has a more appealing car list but meh... just like hot ''stupid'' blondes, they get boring after a while.
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Well that doesn't really make any sense at all!. It's a better list but it gets boring, how exactly?
 
Scaff
Well that doesn't really make any sense at all!. It's a better list but it gets boring, how exactly?
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Heh. By his logic we should fill up GT6 with the worst cars possible. Milk floats, dump trucks, and double decker buses.

Admittedly, that would be fairly entertaining. For about five minutes.
 
You guys take things too seriously, first of all, the quality of the models doesn't have anything to do with wether a car list is good or bad. The car is there period, if it looks like crap that's another story.

Forza's car list is ''supercar central'', maybe it's just me but I don't always want to drive that sort of cars, I mean, every single game has them nowadays. I've driven multiple virtual versions of them so that makes FM4 just another ''hot blonde'' (not literally).

I know there are much more cars in FM4 and not just supercars but GT5 still has more variety, Nascar, F1, WRC, Super GT, DTM, WTCC (1 car), LMPs, early GT1, modern GT3, D1 cars, lot's of ''tuned'' cars aka Spoon, Opera, Nismo, etc. (Forza doesn't have a single one), you guys get the point...

Now, Forza 4 improved a lot with the DLC packs but damn they are expensive, in fact, they will cost you more than the actual game, like I said a while ago, Forza would be so much better if it wasn't tailored to fullfil Microsoft's greediness.
 
PepeMickey
You guys take things too seriously, first of all, the quality of the models doesn't have anything to do with wether a car list is good or bad. The car is there period, if it looks like crap that's another story.

Forza's car list is ''supercar central'', maybe it's just me but I don't always want to drive that sort of cars, I mean, every single game has them nowadays. I've driven multiple virtual versions of them so that makes FM4 just another ''hot blonde'' (not literally).
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Total and utter myth.

F - 49
E - 40
D - 89
C - 100
B - 94
A - 92
S - 58
R3 - 75
R2 - 39
R1 - 35
Source - http://www.myforza.net/f4/carlist.php?

372 cars in class B or lower, supercars mostly inhabit the A & S class and total 150 cars, with race cars totaling 149. so the lower powered cars are actually the bias by a long way.


PepeMickey
I know there are much more cars in FM4 and not just supercars but GT5 still has more variety, Nascar, F1, WRC, Super GT, DTM, WTCC (1 car), LMPs, early GT1, modern GT3, D1 cars, lot's of ''tuned'' cars aka Spoon, Opera, Nismo, etc. (Forza doesn't have a single one), you guys get the point...
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Hate to break it to you but the only thing that FM4 doesn't have from that list is F1.

And...

mqdefault.jpg


mqdefault.jpg


...no not user created.


PepeMickey
Now, Forza 4 improved a lot with the DLC packs but damn they are expensive, in fact, they will cost you more than the actual game, like I said a while ago, Forza would be so much better if it wasn't tailored to fullfil Microsoft's greediness.
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70 US cents a car is too expensive for you (560 points for 10 cars), but I bet that 80 US cents a car (GT5 TC DLC $12 for 15 cars) was just fine.

As for greed, what exactly do you call paying for virtual paint!
 
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PepeMickey
I know there are much more cars in FM4 and not just supercars but GT5 still has more variety, Nascar, F1, WRC, Super GT, DTM, WTCC (1 car), LMPs, early GT1, modern GT3, D1 cars, lot's of ''tuned'' cars aka Spoon, Opera, Nismo, etc. (Forza doesn't have a single one), you guys get the point...
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What modern GT3 cars does GT5 have?:confused:

They are both pretty equal when it comes to SuperGT, DTM and LMP as well.

Edit: Forza has more LMP's actually.
 
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And if you just get the Season Pass you get a crap load of them ($30 for 70 cars) at 40¢ a pop. Nevermind that the first GT5 pack is the only one where they aren't a dollar a car.



Pretty sure Microsoft hasn't raised the price of any of the DLC after it was already on the Marketplace, either; which Sony has for a couple things.

Justin
What modern GT3 cars does GT5 have?:confused:
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I think the only one in GT5 is the R8 LMS.
 
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Scaff
Total and utter myth.

F - 49
E - 40
D - 89
C - 100
B - 94
A - 92
S - 58
R3 - 75
R2 - 39
R1 - 35
Source - http://www.myforza.net/f4/carlist.php?

372 cars in class B or lower, supercars mostly inhabit the A & B class and total 150 cars, with race cars totaling 149. so the lower powered cars are actually the bias by a long way.



Hate to break it to you but the only thing that FM4 doesn't have from that list is F1.

And...

mqdefault.jpg


mqdefault.jpg


...no not user created.



70 US cents a car is too expensive for you (560 points for 10 cars), but I bet that 80 US cents a car (GT5 TC DLC $12 for 15 cars) was just fine.

As for greed, what exactly do you call paying for virtual paint!
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You are missing the S class, it's really the most supercar heavy one, oops, that's almost half of the game!! and even if Forza has Super GT and Nascar, GT5 has much more of those, plus, what's the point for rally cars in FM4 if there's nowhere to use them?

Point is, GT5 embraces more areas in car culture than FM4 does, you just can't argue that...

BTW, I prefer paying 1.99 (?) for 100+ paints than paying 60 bucks a year just so I can be able to race the AI or even worse, be able to get my photos into my PC.
 
PepeMickey
You are missing the S class, it's really the most supercar heavy one, oops, that's almost half of the game!! and even if Forza has Super GT and Nascar, GT5 has much more of those, plus, what's the point for rally cars in FM4 if there's nowhere to use them?
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Actually a typo of mine A & S are supercar heavy, B is most certainly not (or is the Focus ST a supercar now) having around 4 at most that you call supercars).

You also don't seem to be aware that rally cars spend as much time on tarmac as they do on gravel (and GT5's gravel and ice has a lot to be desired - Horizon's it an indicator that GT is soon to head behind in that one, with FH suspension and how its affected by the surface and jumps modeled far better than GT5)



PepeMickey
Point is, GT5 embraces more areas in car culture than FM4 does, you just can't argue that...
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Yes I can, GT5 almost totally ignores customization and how it affects cars, decals don't exist, tyre widths and profiles can't be changed.



PepeMickey
BTW, I prefer paying 1.99 (?) for 100+ paints than paying 60 bucks a year just so I can be able to race the AI or even worse, be able to get my photos into my PC.
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Umm neither of those things is DLC and you don't need to pay a penny to race the AI!
 
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PepeMickey
and even if Forza has Super GT and Nascar, GT5 has much more of those, plus, what's the point for rally cars in FM4 if there's nowhere to use them?
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They both have the same number of SuperGT cars, Forza just doesn't use different schemes to boost car count as much.

GT5 only has 1 more stock car than Forza as well, granted both games do a horrible job with oval racing so it's not worth it in either.

Point is, GT5 embraces more areas in car culture than FM4 does, you just can't argue that...
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So where are all the classic British roadsters & sportscars(Cortina and Escort RS1800 are two of my favorite cars in FM4), the best looking Ferrari(250 GTO), the classic racers like the Lotus Eleven, Maserati 300S and Aston DBR1 and the boutique makes like Koenigsegg?
 
FM4 is NOT 'supercar central'. There's some charts out there that breaks this common misconception showing how diverse the car list ranges from your slow F class econoboxes to the S class super cars and R classed race cars. Even the DLC falls exactly with this motto.

The problem with GT's variety is it doesn't do much with it. NASCAR license is fleshed out to having 2 authentic ovals with no real stock car series races, rules, etc and a 'tacked on' special events. F1 comes by fictional FGTs and 2 Ferraris you can't race anywhere but online. WRC license is a few cars and in career damage isn't even considered feeling also half assed and tacked on. Karting is a ton of fun but again, all fictional. Same goes for everything else that's there and as a big racing game fan and motorsports nut I really wished more time was spent in setting up series and events to utilize all the types of cars and tuner cars than into something stupid like modeling the stitching in the back seats. Focus in the game and in racing is what I hope PD is doing now because visual fluff gets boring after a few minutes to me.

DLC really isn't that much. PD's track DLC like Spa was awesome, and some cars were OK (and more expensive than FM4's btw) but the stuff like single use paint chips is horrible, as is passing off a bunch of 'TC' race mods of cars already in the game, which should have been part of the game from the get go. The only thing I wished T10 did with FM4 was release a track pack DLC but their car DLCs were amazing. Best of any game in my book.

PepeMickey
BTW, I prefer paying 1.99 (?) for 100+ paints than paying 60 bucks a year just so I can be able to race the AI or even worse, be able to get my photos into my PC.
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Dear god just no no no no no and no.... please tell me you only paid once (which is already bad) for those single use paint chips....
 
cuco33
FM4 is NOT 'supercar central'. There's some charts out there that breaks this common misconception showing how diverse the car list ranges from your slow F class econoboxes to the S class super cars and R classed race cars. Even the DLC falls exactly with this motto.

The problem with GT's variety is it doesn't do much with it. NASCAR license is fleshed out to having 2 authentic ovals with no real stock car series races, rules, etc and a 'tacked on' special events. F1 comes by fictional FGTs and 2 Ferraris you can't race anywhere but online. WRC license is a few cars and in career damage isn't even considered feeling also half assed and tacked on. Karting is a ton of fun but again, all fictional. Same goes for everything else that's there and as a big racing game fan and motorsports nut I really wished more time was spent in setting up series and events to utilize all the types of cars and tuner cars than into something stupid like modeling the stitching in the back seats. Focus in the game and in racing is what I hope PD is doing now because visual fluff gets boring after a few minutes to me.
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I agree that neither of them do real racing events correctly (free practice, qualifying, flags and penalties, etc) which is why I still stick to Race Pro for that.
 
Scaff
I agree that neither of them do real racing events correctly (free practice, qualifying, flags and penalties, etc) which is why I still stick to Race Pro for that.
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I think that the more sim they make these games the less people will get into them. I don't have proof to back this up but it is my opinion that the vast majority of GT5 owners didn't do a fraction of the sim based stuff like license events or whatnot. Most simply buy a car they want, modify it to the max, and then race bump n run NFS style ramming themselves into 1st place. Same goes for FM4. Core sims never sell well.
 
Arguing about which one of these games is better is pointless, neither of them are a proper simulations. Yet you find people going on about how realistic GT and Forzas physics are when they are not even close. I used to play both a lot, but now I just stick with iracing.
 
hennessey86
Arguing about which one of these games is better is pointless, neither of them are a proper simulations.
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Actually this thread is just for discussing them as games overall, the physics threads another thing.


hennessey86
Yet you find people going on about how realistic GT and Forzas physics are when they are not even close. I used to play both a lot, but now I just stick with iracing.
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All sims have issues (and that does include iRacing), to say they are not even close is also rather an overstatement, they are simply not as close to real as iRacing, but they are however closer than say Grid or Shift. As such its still a very valid discussion (what they do and don't do well), its just not a discussion for this thread.
 
You really do feel how lacking they both are in the physics department when you have been playing more realistic sims, especially GT5. It feels to stable, it honestly feels like there is little to no tire model there. Forza is better in the case as you can feel what the car is doing through the wheel and the cars feel more alive.
 
hennessey86
You really do feel how lacking they both are in the physics department when you have been playing more realistic sims, especially GT5. It feels to stable, it honestly feels like there is little to no tire model there. Forza is better in the case as you can feel what the car is doing through the wheel and the cars feel more alive.
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That's pretty much sums up my position for the whole of the physics thread (well throw in a little suspension model advantage to FM4 as well and you would be spot on).
 
Justin
They both have the same number of SuperGT cars, Forza just doesn't use different schemes to boost car count as much.

GT5 only has 1 more stock car than Forza as well, granted both games do a horrible job with oval racing so it's not worth it in either.



So where are all the classic British roadsters & sportscars(Cortina and Escort RS1800 are two of my favorite cars in FM4), the best looking Ferrari(250 GTO), the classic racers like the Lotus Eleven, Maserati 300S and Aston DBR1 and the boutique makes like Koenigsegg?
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Sorry but T10 used the wrong version of the 250 GTO for FM4, that's more like the ugliest GTO ever, They also used the wrong Jaguar E-type. This is getting pointless, it seems that when Forza fails it's excusable but when GT5 does then it's the worst game ever.

GT5 has more cars and has more variety period, wether they did a good job or not with physics/models, etc it's irrelevant, the cars are there and they are not in FM4 and it goes both ways so it's pointless arguing which specific cars are in FM4 and not GT5 but rather see the entire list as a whole and again, GT5 has more variety.
 
PepeMickey
Sorry but T10 used the wrong version of the 250 GTO for FM4, that's more like the ugliest GTO ever, They also used the wrong Jaguar E-type.
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In your opinion.


PepeMickey
This is getting pointless, it seems that when Forza fails it's excusable but when GT5 does then it's the worst game ever.
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That's a rather broad statement to make given that no one has come close to saying that kind of thing (well apart from you that is).


PepeMickey
GT5 has more cars and has more variety period, wether they did a good job or not with physics/models, etc it's irrelevant, the cars are there and they are not in FM4 and it goes both ways so it's pointless arguing which specific cars are in FM4 and not GT5 but rather see the entire list as a whole and again, GT5 has more variety.
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GT5 has more cars yes, but more variety? Not in my opinion, its got some cars that I would love to have in Forza, but Forza has far more cars in it that GT needs in my opinion. Where GT has the variety is in the Japanese cars, their we have a great range of various models, but once you get outside that things start getting a whole lot less varied and some notably important models are missing (particularly from the likes of BMW, British cars and the US). GT5 is also very poor on any modern cars, including for example two Alfa's that should be in it (but I am bias over one of those)
 
PepeMickey
Sorry but T10 used the wrong version of the 250 GTO for FM4, that's more like the ugliest GTO ever, They also used the wrong Jaguar E-type. This is getting pointless, it seems that when Forza fails it's excusable but when GT5 does then it's the worst game ever.
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Who gets to determine what version is the "wrong" one and why that's a failure? You? I'm annoyed that Forza has the 512TR instead of the original Testarossa, but I can hardly claim that they modeled the "wrong" one.

PepeMickey
GT5 has more cars and has more variety period, wether they did a good job or not with physics/models, etc it's irrelevant, the cars are there and they are not in FM4 and it goes both ways so it's pointless arguing which specific cars are in FM4 and not GT5 but rather see the entire list as a whole and again, GT5 has more variety.
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This doesn't get any more true just because you're now attempting to be righteously indignant about it.





I can't help but notice that you ignored this, too:

Justin
What modern GT3 cars does GT5 have?:confused:

They are both pretty equal when it comes to SuperGT, DTM and LMP as well.

Edit: Forza has more LMP's actually.
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PepeMickey
Sorry but T10 used the wrong version of the 250 GTO for FM4, that's more like the ugliest GTO ever, They also used the wrong Jaguar E-type.
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Wrong versions in what way? Just sounds like you're flailing now.

This is getting pointless, it seems that when Forza fails it's excusable but when GT5 does then it's the worst game ever.
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You say this...

GT5 has more cars and has more variety period, wether they did a good job or not with physics/models, etc it's irrelevant
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...And then go on to say this. Which one is it? And do tell me how how not having done a good job on the models or physics (and believe me GT has problems with both) doesn't matter, because if it matters with FM (and it does) then it matters here too, especially considering Forza's shortcomings are often use a scapegoat for GT5's own shortcomings.

the cars are there and they are not in FM4 and it goes both ways so it's pointless arguing which specific cars are in FM4 and not GT5 but rather see the entire list as a whole and again, GT5 has more variety.
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More variety in what way? Your attempt at saying GT5 has this and that fell on it's face, and the only thing GT5 does have over FM4 are karts and the F1 chassis', but again, where can they be used other than in 1 or 2 in-game races or online?

Every car in Forza can be used in World Tour, Rivals, and multiplayer.
 
PepeMickey
You are missing the S class, it's really the most supercar heavy one, oops, that's almost half of the game!! and even if Forza has Super GT and Nascar, GT5 has much more of those, plus, what's the point for rally cars in FM4 if there's nowhere to use them?
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You do see the numbered breakdown Scaff provided, right? I'd love to see how GT5's compares at, let's say, 100 PP intervals. That's to say nothing of the country percentages for both games...

Forza has nearly the same number of SuperGT cars: it just skips some of the paint schemes. Which can easily be recreated, thanks to a livery editor. It's missing one NASCAR, and it has far more LMP's, endurance racing sports cars, and DTM vehicles.

Point is, GT5 embraces more areas in car culture than FM4 does, you just can't argue that...
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GT5 embraces more extremes - like the Kubelwagen, Tank Car, Life Step Van, and others - but skips out on massive (and massively important) categories. Where are the 50's and 60's European sports cars, the older BMW M models, any modern trucks or SUVs, modern non-Japanese city cars, even half of the muscle cars FM provides, etc etc. The more modern age (2008 an up) is underrepresented in GT as well, there's just a massive glut of 80's and 90's Japanese duplicates.

BTW, I prefer paying 1.99 (?) for 100+ paints than paying 60 bucks a year just so I can be able to race the AI or even worse, be able to get my photos into my PC.
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That isn't a Forza-specific cost, so I fail to see your point. If you want to bring up pay-for paints (that only have a one-time use, no less), FM has quite the answer in that category.
 
hennessey86
You really do feel how lacking they both are in the physics department when you have been playing more realistic sims, especially GT5. It feels to stable, it honestly feels like there is little to no tire model there. Forza is better in the case as you can feel what the car is doing through the wheel and the cars feel more alive.
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Agreed. It's why GT's offroad and FH doesn't feel right to me. Although track based I think GT and FM do a great job as is. Not perfect but great.

Regarding the cars... 2 huge things are missing from GT5 in my book. The fist being Porsche, any Porsche really. I hope GT6 gets them because I'm a huge fan of their cars. The other is the E30 M3. That car has it's own cult following. We have the Mercedes 190E street and DTM cars but no E30?! I don't expect every DTM or era car but the E30 is the E30. Another car I hope finds its way into GT6.
Actually I could be here all day with the cars but please PD give me Porsches and an E30!
 
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While I agree that FM4 has just about the most "complete" and well-rounded car list around, I think it's noticably lacking in terms of Japanese classics, and not just compared to an eccentric standout like GT5. America and Europe get better treatment in terms of pre-'90s cars.
 
PepeMickey
Sorry but T10 used the wrong version of the 250 GTO for FM4, that's more like the ugliest GTO ever,
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And yet, still better looking than the one in GT... :)

They also used the wrong Jaguar E-type.
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The one with an actual interior?

This is getting pointless, it seems that when Forza fails it's excusable but when GT5 does then it's the worst game ever.
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That isn't the case at all - in this very page people are criticizing certain aspects of the game. If anything, you're seemingly upset that people aren't all taking the opposite approach that you so happily do, where any drawback for GT5 is excusable.


GT5 has more cars
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True.

and has more variety period,
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Questionable at best.

wether they did a good job or not with physics/models, etc it's irrelevant,
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:lol:

So now neither of those things are important? Those definitely matter, especially in the context of the car list. What's the point in having a car in the game that doesn't look or act how it should?

the cars are there and they are not in FM4
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Just like the E30, or the M6, or the 3.0 CSL, or the newest M5, or the oldest M5, or the Z4. And that's not even all the BMW's from FM4's list that GT is missing. Moving to nearly any non-Japanese marque will see a similar problem.

and it goes both ways
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See, you say that, and yet:

so it's pointless arguing which specific cars are in FM4 and not GT5 but rather see the entire list as a whole and again, GT5 has more variety.
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You can't even agree with yourself.

Wolfe
While I agree that FM4 has just about the most "complete" and well-rounded car list around, I think it's noticably lacking in terms of Japanese classics, and not just compared to an eccentric standout like GT5. America and Europe get better treatment in terms of pre-'90s cars.
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True, possibly because Japan just had less world-renowned offerings prior to that. FM4 does hit the big names (the KPGC10 Skyline, the 2000GT, the 240Z, etc), but I will admit I miss things like the Honda 1300 Coupe and the Sx00 cars, or Mazda's original Cosmo, Nissan's KPGC110 Skyline, the older Lancers, and especially my old Galant GTO MR. Though, other than GT5, I can't think of any other game that's hit so many of Japan's milestone cars than Enthusia, which again, was a Japanese game. FM4 misses a few of them, but compared to GT5, covers a lot of the other landmark cars from every other country that isn't Japan.
 

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