My NOS dilemma...

How should I continue? Read Post #1 and then vote.

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Smallhorses

Smallhorses

Staff Emeritus
7,260
Hi there.

I'm working on joining the 100000 Club and have so far accrued just over 90,000 A-spec points without consuming any NOS, and not exploiting the Dodge Ram bug (it's earned 600 points for Sports Truck races, and that's it) and have raced for the most part cleanly. I'm becoming frustrated and disgruntled with racing the dumb AI and the appeal of the game is now wearing thin after 4 years.

I've been a long time opponent of NOS use, as it seems to give an unfair advantage, however, given that most other members of the 100000 club have had no shame in using NOS & dirty tactics I'm now torn between 2 things:

1) I can start tuning cars with N tyres and high ballast weights, but I'll have to start using dirty driving tactics such as ramming, wallriding, shortcutting in order to win races to increase my points tally. (Harder option)

2) I still try to race as cleanly as possible (blocking seems inevitable), but use NOS to increase my points tally by providing the extra get-up-and-go that's required when entering an underpowered (hence high points) car into many races. (Easier option)

What do you think I should do?

Given that I've never used B-spec at all, and have earned & driven every car in the game in A-spec mode, is it time to make life easier on myself so I can concentrate on tuning challenges, hotlaps, race reports and planning LAN events?
 
I think that the nitrous is pretty much there for the taking-a free (albeit very limited, if that comforts you at all) burst of power. I'd say use the NOS.
 
I know you're heavily against dirty driving, having read every single one of your race reports. :sly: NOS will allow you to drive clean for the most part while you make your way into the 100,000 Club. :) 👍
 
I can't agree more about the whole AI being slower than poo and offering no real challenge unless you use a seriously under powered car just to obtain a challenge.

Hopefully GT5 provides more of a challenge and not so unrealistic tire wear, which i found really silly in both GT3 and GT4. I much preferred GT2 for it's tire wear, but then again the whole thing about managing tires was never much my forte anyways.

Use the NOS destroy all! If you're gonna win, might as well win big (in terms of margin)!
 
I see this as largely an ethical dilemma. I don't think your love of a challenge and respect for the simulation aspect of the game should ever prompt you to use dirty tactics. It's perhaps similar to people with a strong religious or moral conviction who ironically end up doing harm because of the strength of that conviction or its application in the wrong situation. Sorry, can't think of an example right now but you should get the picture.

Just make sure to record the exact number of A-Spec points you obtained without NOS, cause that's a record that I can't imagine ever being broken.
 
Jonn 79
Use the NOS destroy all! If you're gonna win, might as well win big (in terms of margin)!
Click to expand...

I think you've entirely missed my point. I don't want to use NOS to win by huge margins. I'm torn between NOS or dirty driving to obtain the last 10,000 points to guide me towards the 100,000 goal.
Winning big has never been a goal of mine in GT4, sure it's happened, but it's never been as satisfying as battling right to the line.

PF
Just make sure to record the exact number of A-Spec points you obtained without NOS, cause that's a record that I can't imagine ever being broken.
Click to expand...

I believe alhajoth already has me beaten there, 94,000 and counting. :eek:
 
Hi Nick,

No matter what we say, in the end you’ll have to live with the consequences of your decision.
How serious do you want to take this. If you stick to your principles you’ll use neither.
If you treat it as a game / pastime and are able to let go of the above I would use what the game has to offer you and use NOS + clean driving.
Keep in mind that the game has its flaws. If it hadn’t I believe only the best drivers would be able to get to max without resorting to dirty tactics and or nos.
I may make 60K clean but not more than that. I reached 110K by sheer persistence and trying to beat GT4 at its own game. It frustrated me for a while not reaching max but nowadays it doesn’t worry me anymore. I take solace in what I was able to do.
As you know I am a clean driver (bar the occasional accident) and I take a lot more pride in that when racing real life people (GT5P & LAN). When it comes to a flawed computer game I adjust my expectations.
Don’t get me wrong I will still play nice until its time not to be nice (Roadhouse, Patrick Swayze) and off come the gloves.

Coming back to my first statement, its a matter of your principle. If you decide to change those I’d suggest the following. Race clean till you can’t go further, then switch to NOS + clean till you’ve maxxed out and if there are still points to be made do as we did.
I wish you strength with this difficult decision and will stand by you whatever you decide to do.

AMG.
 
This may just be my OCD talking here, but I say stick to your clean, no-NOS approach.
Having come so far using no NOS, no B-Spec and trying to race cleanly, it would seriously hurt my enthuasiasm and love of the game if I were to start racing by other 'rules' and abandon my principles.
And given your complete car-collection, your meticolous(yeah, I don't know how to spell that..:sly:) approach to endurance races and reports, I'm guessing your probably just as obsessive as I am.
I'm still convinced 100k is possible, there are so many manufacturers races where stock cars get less than half what N2 tires+ballast can get you in terms of points, and with transmission upgrades, those races aren't very difficult to do cleanly.

By the way, I'm at 96,000 now.👍
I have also redone the special conditions-races I'd done with the RAM, leaving the PD cup, sports truck and one sunday cup race as those done using that abomination.

Here is the list of the races I've done to reach that mark. But the site won't let me upload a RTF-file, so I had to convert it to txt, which messed up the formatting. But I hope it's of some help anyway.




Edit: Looked it up, and it's meticulous.:)
 

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Firstly, Alhajoth, Smallhorses, congratulations on getting such an a-spec tally without NOS.

Smallhorses: go with your heart. Just think for a moment: is dirty driving a price that you are willing to pay for a no NOS run? If so, be my guest. Is succumbing to NOS worth a clean playthrough? If so, go ahead. Its all up to you. I have started being amiable to NOS, and although I do not support it for destroying races, in close encounters it is an acceptable route to take. But hey, its all up to you man! Good luck on reaching 100,000
 
This is a most excellent thread; it seems to elicit some very thoughtful and worthwhile discussion.

I would first of all consult with Sukerkin, as he seems to be one player, maybe the only one, who has hit the 100,000 mark without NOS and without the usual range of shortcuts and wallbanging that some of us have used.

Secondly, I would consider that your achievement of a very high A-spec total, attained quite cleanly, is an important achievement in itself, and I believe is widely known and admired in your peer group. Any man should be proud to rest on this laurel.

Finally, if the the rather arbitrary, but even so, well established club of 100,000 is important to you, you should let nothing stop you from getting there, no matter what.

For my own part, after getting there in rather low-down fashion, I am trying in some part to atone for my sins by going back and accomplishing things more cleanly.

All the best!
 
A short burst of extra power coming out of a slow corner is not that diferent to KERS, while ramming opponents is more akin to banger racing/destruction derby.

Also, a bottle of NOS is limited. Sure it would not be fair to be the only car equipt with NOS in a sprint, but over 20+ laps it can easily run out. Dirty driving however, has no limits. You could bounce off your opponents on every corner of every lap of a 24 hour race without penalty. I know which one I would consider most fair.

You've kept it clean this far, why would you want to tarnish your reputation by resorting to dirty tricks? I'd say stick to your original intentions at least until after the first couple of F1 races, and then ask yourself how (un)fair you feel the advantages are for the few teams running KERS.
 
Smallhorses, having come as far as you have, it would be a shame to resort to the cheat gas now.

I have pretty detailed notes for my races and would be more than glad to pass on how I got to the 100,000 mark without NOS and without excessively dirty driving (in some races, blocking overtaking attempts on long straights by switching your line is sadly unavoidable tho').
 
So is it even possible to achieve these last 10,000 points with out using either tactic?
Or has anyone else been able to accomplish it that way?

I would say that if you have tried everything possible to win these points, then I would say Nitrous over dirty driving. That way you are only getting a little boost to obtain what what you are trying to accomplish.
 
I voted "other, please explain".

I used some nitrous very early in my GT4 days just to experiment with it, but otherwise, I often forget about it's even there for us to buy and use.

So mostly I would say "don't use it, it's cheating.' The Ai doesn't use nitrous, so if we do that's definitely cheating.

On the other hand, the Ai feels no shame when bashing into us, punting us, or whatever. THAT to me is cheating as well. So I look at it like this: go ahead and equip a bottle. But use it only if some opponent has pushed you off-line and you need desperately to catch up. 💡

That's all. Thank you.
 
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Well put, Parnelli. Yes, the AI lacks brains most if not all the time. So, go ahead and use Nitrous, after all, it's your game. Who can criticize you?
 
Thanks for all the excellent input guys 👍 it's certainly giving me food for thought.

That said, I'm off to Tahoe for the weekend again, and will have chance to mull over my strategy as I'm racing down a few snowy slopes.

I do believe I've still got quite a lot of low hanging fruit in the Manufacturers Hall to get using only N tyres, suspension & drivetrain tuning and ballast weight, so I'll see where exactly it is that I run out of steam.
I've only 653 points left in Special Conditions Hall, (all Hard difficulty races) and I've not "Ramminated" any of those, although this is the one place where I'm starting to feel justified about gently edging out the AI here as they will invariably not hesitate to do the same to you, but have the added bonus of leaving you crawling along at 30mph with a penalty while they bugger off into the distance unpunished. :grumpy:

Keep the banter and suggestions coming, I'm enjoying reading everyone's opinions on this! :cheers:
 
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Dude you're going to Tahoe? Soo jealous. :mad: I miss the west sometimes.

There are some occasional races in which I've nudged the Ai. Two words: Ice Arena. :mad: Most of the time, I don't consciously try to nudge, but it happens here and there.

...Hell, I've seen real-life drivers do it (legally) in the FIA, NASCAR, or some other full-body type racing, and not be penalized. As long as you don't SLAM or deliberately push the Ai off their course, I say it's okay. It's a part of the spirit & passion of the moment, know what I mean?
 
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Think about it for a second, too. You could block someone in Costa Di Amalfi, for example. That place is definitely one in which if you want to, you can make a clean race dirty by just blocking the opponent. They will hardly find a way to pass you cleanly. So, as long it is just a little push, I always say it is okay. It's not your fault if the AI is too slow :sly:
 
I've had the Ai block me, too; I say (within reason) it's cool if we do it occasionally. Again, it's something I've seen real-life drivers do, so I say it's okay as long as you don't make a total show about it.

Personally, my guilt factors in, however :guilty:, and this is what prevents me from weaving left, then weaving right, then weaving left again as the opponents obviously have an advantage and would otherwise pass me. I can't stand a weak replay personally, in which I've done something dirty. It looks like i'm being a total prick in my replay if I sit there blocking blocking blocking (yes, I've done it a few times).
 
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Smallhorses, if you're extremely set in how you want to accomplish your feat, by all means, stay completely clean. However, I see no shame what so ever in using Nitrous to catch up to the field after having been punted mercilessly.

Here's something that happens to me in Forza: I'll be duking it out for the lead, and when I'm just about by in a corner (I'll admit my overtaking places aren't the best, still getting a feel for the brakes) I'll get clipped and go spinning off into a wall. After that I'll resort to dirty* tactics to get back to the field, where I'll do my best to weave back through them nicely.

*Dirty: Banging off walls and such
 
Other:

Since you are going for 100,000 and not max pts. and there is some indication from the posts here that it may be possible to reach that total without the use of either, this is what I recommend and why.

I would employ extensive use of the Dodge Ram and the Suzuki GSXR4 in combination with any other use recommendations in an effort to reach the 100,000pts.

Once this option is exhausted, if not successful I would use whatever driving techniques are necessary to achieve success if possible. (BTW I don't consider these to be "dirty" driving for the reasons expressed below)

If these tactics are not capable of producing the desired result, you are down to what I consider the deal breaker in your case. Once you cross the NOS threshold I believe your Game will lose much of its unique and special achievement quality and unfortunately become like all the rest. I sincerly hope this would not have to be done.
In the event that it did come to the use of NOS maybe you could gain acceptance through a special hardship excemption or something. Certainly the absence of NOS in this endeavor is a hardship to say the least.

Nevertheless, even if NOS is used it is still a commendable feat among which few can lay claim.

Parnelli Bone
So mostly i would say "don't use it, it's cheating.' The Ai doesn't use nitrous, so if we do that's definately cheating.
Click to expand...

I strongly disagree with this assesment, reguarding 200 or max point races. The AI doesn't use NOS because they don't have to. They are not the one driving the grossly underpowered overweight car with the front tires that hydroplane on dry pavement and starts at the back of the field. The use of NOS and ultra competitive driving tactics have to be employed in many races to give the max pointer a chance to compete for the win. Even then often its the slimmest of chances.

Whatever you decide best wishes on the undertaking.

PS: During my quest for Max pts., since no one had done it before, I persevered while maintaining a 100% win ratio which added considerably to the time, difficulty, and aggravation of the task.
While I did not have 4 years invested, I understand your dilemma. I can't tell you how many times I almost canned that 100% win ratio. In the end, I'm glad that I did'nt. I still maybe the only one to have done it.
 
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I vote for staying clean no matter what.
What comes to useing nos, I can only two kind of use for the nos..
wrong kind: passing AI on straith for example.
right kind: Las Vegas Drag Strip :D



MadMax
 
SuperCobraJet
I strongly disagree with this assesment, reguarding 200 or max point races. The AI doesn't use NOS because they don't have to. They are not the one driving the grossly underpowered overweight car with the front tires that hydroplane on dry pavement and starts at the back of the field. The use of NOS and ultra competitive driving tactics have to be employed in many races to give the max pointer a chance to compete for the win. Even then often its the slimmest of chances.
Click to expand...

I've seen this argument before. In effect, if you're under-powered, then it's okay if you use nitrous. My opinion is...why make yourself so under-powered in the first place? It just makes things more complicated. :P It's possible to run a tight race while being under-powered, without being too under-powered.

...but I also understand it's a way to get max A-spec points.

...but yea...if you're not so under-powered and start using nitrous, THAT is cheating. The Ai doesn't use nitrous. It is cheating.
 
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SH, Conrats to almost 100K clean and no NOS

Nos IMO, is not cheating and neither is driving dirty if you want max points. (you just have to do it).

However, If you only want 100,000, then my opinion would be, use NOS sparingly, also, turn the power of the NOS down to minimum. This way you only get a little boost and not a super burst.

.
 
Parnelli Bone
...but i also understand it's a way to get max A-spec points.
Click to expand...

It's not "a way" to get 200 or Max Aspec points. In many races it's "the only way". If you don't believe me try some of these on for 200 or the maximum achieveable Aspec points.
Tell me how many you can win without NOS.

Race / max Aspec points

1000 miles / 200 ea.
Roadster Endurance / 200
Saleen S7 club / 200ea.
MG festival / 200ea.
Hyundai sports festival / 880 total
Chrysler Crossfire / 546 total
Chevy Camaro meeting / 200ea.
Suzuki Concepts / 200ea.
Nissan Silvia Sisters / 200ea.
Daihatsu Copen Races / 498 total
VW GTI Cup / 200ea.
Renault Alpine Cup / 200ea.

This is just a few races you cannot win for max points without using NOS. There are many others.

The illusion that with NOS and/or rough driving you will have an "unfair advantage" will melt away instantly.
Ha! anything but.
 
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SuperCobraJet
It's not "a way" to get 200 or Max Aspec points. In many races it's "the only way". If you don't believe me try some of these on for 200 or the maximum achieveable Aspec points.
Tell me how many you can win without NOS.

Race / max Aspec points
Roadster Endurance / 200
Click to expand...

I finished this for 113 points recently

No NOS involved. :D

But yea, I get your point of not being able to do some races for 200pts.



MadMax
 
Parnelli Bone
I've seen this argument before. In effect, if you're underpowered, than it's okay if you use nitrous. My opinion is...why make yourself so underpowered in the first place? It just makes things more complicated. :P It's possible to run a tight race while being underpowered, without being too underpowered.

...but i also understand it's a way to get max A-spec points.

...but yea...if you're not so underpowered and start using nitrous, THAT is cheating. The Ai doesn't use nitrous. It is cheating.
Click to expand...

Does the AI use "N grade" tyres and ballast weight, or is the use of these also cheating?

I'll stick with my view of comparing it to KERS. NOS is ok in short bursts over a long race if you balance it out with extra weight to compromise your handling.

That said, some of the most enjoyable 200 point races are best completed without the funny gas.
 
I think I've got the solution:

1) Buy NOS, equip it and calculate the extra HP you get.
2) Unequip NOS, and get that extra HP with removable parts (like Turbo + Intercooler)
3) See how many A-Spec points you lose.
4) Use any parts needed (ballast, tyres, oil, etc.) to get those A-Spec points back.
5) Unequip the parts bought in step 2) and equip NOS.

You think it's a good idea?
 
Is NOS the new Hoover? As in, brand names used to describe a product as opposed to the actual word?
 

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