No wheel? Don't bother with the controller on this demo

  • Thread starter trevisio
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T

trevisio

46
Hi all,

Apologies for being negative, but I'm more than a little annoyed at the blatant favouritism for wheel users in this supposedly fair competition. I know its already been mentioned, but I have to post my thoughts because its driving me mad and has totally put me off buying a PS3 for GT5 whenever its finally released (I'm borrowing my mates PS3 at the moment).

Specifically, this GT Academy demo is the first driving game I've ever played where the joypad controller is at a massive disadvantage compared to a steering wheel, because the throttle sensitivity setup for the controller is non-linear, consistent times are possible but they're always slower than with the wheel, because the car will always slide on the corner exit like its on ice!The last 25% of throttle pedal travel is uncontrollable and feels random. Why this is the case when the brake sensitivity is perfectly linear on the controller, I don't know, I can only guess that once again big business has ruined the fun because it wants to sell more steering wheels. I'm not falling for that one. How ridiculous to exclude some really quick drivers from getting a good time just because they don't have a wheel.

I used to enjoy playing lots of GT4, GT3, GT2 and GT on PS2 and was in the WRS for a while (top 10 time in the qualifier) but after the third PS2s disc drive failed out of warranty, I bought an XBOX for RACE Pro, which is fantastic for online racing on equal terms with the controller.

The best I can do is 1:38.2 in the tuned car and 1:52.5 in the traction control enforced standard one. Its embarrassing but I know why I'm off the pace - I don't want to give the companies behind this enterprise any of my money just because they cynically bugged this demo for non wheel users.

It seems big business has also spoiled the other major racing game releases this year too - Forza3 has no public custom lobbies for online racing (MSoft order to turn10) and NFS:Shift was an aracady crashfest (EA demand to SMS). Even RACE Pro was rushed out by the publisher, Atari, way before the developer, Simbin, were ready (all bugs nearly fixed with free patches).

oops I went off topic there sorry, but this big business ruining our games theme is playing on my mind.

Happy New Year :)
 
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I felt the same way about GT5P. The cars were very difficult to control at times. Its almos like they are forcing us to use the wheel with GT5. I mentioned the same thing in the 370 thread. I bet the game is great with the wheel but with the controller, not so much.
 
Long time controller user here, and I had zero issues playing GT5P with it.

As far as the Demo goes, I can agree that controller users are at a disadvantage here, but they can still be fast. I am currently the fastest controller player in the USA, but have dropped to the 20's overall in the last couple weeks. There is a controller player in Australia in the top 5 overall there.

It just takes some serious skill and patience.
 
If you want to be competitive buy a wheel stop moaning!

& the fastest guy with a controller is 3'23.8xx as far as i know so not much disadvantage as you claim.
 
I'm not that patient :) especially when its only necessary because someone with $ signs in their eyes decided to bug us controller users out of the competition.
 
My point is this game has been deliberately designed to increase the sale of wheel controllers and that is just not right. If I'm in the minority and the majority think its ok for companies to do that, fair enough. This is shocking for me, but clearly some think it is ok for us to be manipulated like this! It just seems really creepy to me that money is allowed to spoil things and we're all like "oh, ok then, I'd better do what I'm told and buy a wheel".

I race in real life, have done for 15 years, won a few championships the in UK too. Real life racing really is about money more than skill, now it looks like online racing is going that way too now, shame.
 
trevisio
My point is this game has been deliberately designed to increase the sale of wheel controllers and that is just not right. If I'm in the minority and the majority think its ok for companies to do that, fair enough. This is shocking for me, but clearly some think it is ok for us to be manipulated like this! It just seems really creepy to me that money is allowed to spoil things and we're all like "oh, ok then, I'd better do what I'm told and buy a wheel".

I race in real life, have done for 15 years, won a few championships the in UK too. Real life racing really is about money more than skill, now it looks like online racing is going that way too now, shame.
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Sorry but life's not fair....if you don't like the fact that you have to buy a wheel to compete at the very highest level in GT5, then don't bother playing the damn game. It's as simple as that.

The game is stated to be the REAL driving simulator, not the easy driving simulator. With that said, do you really think you could drive a REAL car at the absolute limit using a hand held device like a 6-axis? I surely think not!

Ever since the demo came out there have been a ridiculous amount of people complaining about the same thing as you...and quite frankly it's becoming a bit old 👎

tony1311
Very nice. I wonder why you feel the need to react so badly to such a thread...it doesn't even concern you.

I agree with trevisio.
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:lol: You must have had a brain transplant in the past few weeks :odd: Or maybe you've been going to church to repay for all of your sins? :lol:
 
I had zero problems in GT5P with a controller in fact I'm more consistant with it than a wheel.

GT5TT however is a lot harder with a controller in fact the demo made me brake out my old DFP wheel.
But as others have said it's not impossible with a pad it just takes practice.

Main reason I finally broke out my wheel and stumped up the cash for a rig to mount it on was;
if i were to break into the top 20 (currently 49th UK) I don't think they would let me bring along my DS3 to the second round :sly:
 
trevisio
Oh look its someone who did what they were told and got a wheel after admitting they "could only get so far" with the controller. Mug :)
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Yes, because I'm actually capable of realizing that a hand held controller is a FAR less realistic and accurate input device than a steering wheel. I'm simply not ignorant to realism, which is Kaz' aim for the GT series. I take it Kaz should apologize for making the physics 10 fold better since the days of GT4, when a controller user wasn't at much of a disadvantage to a wheel user due to unrealistic/easy physics.

I was able to do fairly well with the 6-axis in Prologue, but clearly realized with time that a wheel was needed to achieve the fine input accuracy necesary to achieve world class lap times.
 
trevisio
My point is this game has been deliberately designed to increase the sale of wheel controllers and that is just not right. If I'm in the minority and the majority think its ok for companies to do that, fair enough. This is shocking for me, but clearly some think it is ok for us to be manipulated like this! It just seems really creepy to me that money is allowed to spoil things and we're all like "oh, ok then, I'd better do what I'm told and buy a wheel".

I race in real life, have done for 15 years, won a few championships the in UK too. Real life racing really is about money more than skill, now it looks like online racing is going that way too now, shame.
Click to expand...

I don't think it's them trying to get people to buy wheels, because they don't make anything off of them. It has more to do with more realistic games just working better with a wheel than a controller. It's kind of like Duck Hunt on the original NES, you could use a controller but that plastic gun worked a lot better.
 
Hey is just a pro competition to get the best of the best, just wait until the final GT5 and you will put all assists you want until you feel confortable.

It's no secret that a wheel will be always the best option, try to approach the best times in a serious sim with a controller... is not a GT issue more like a hardware limit, I think you are being spoiled by other games friendly tuned controls.
 
The most realistic racing simulator I've ever played (RACE Pro) does not disadvantage controller users - at least not on pupose via deliberatley messing up the programming of the throttle. Specifically, with the controller, the brake control on GT5TT is perfectly linear, proving it can be done, but the last 25% of throttle is not. Its either an unforgiveable oversight or a deliberate ploy. I'd prefer it if it was an oversight but seriously doubt it is.

I agree that a wheel is more realistic and provides a more immersive experience, but this does not mean its ok to deliberately put at a competitive disadvantage customers who, for whatever reason, don't have a wheel.
 
timeattack07gt
Yes, because I'm actually capable of realizing that a hand held controller is a FAR less realistic and accurate input device than a steering wheel. I'm simply not ignorant to realism, which is Kaz' aim for the GT series. I take it Kaz should apologize for making the physics 10 fold better since the days of GT4, when a controller user wasn't at much of a disadvantage to a wheel user due to unrealistic/easy physics.

I was able to do fairly well with the 6-axis in Prologue, but clearly realized with time that a wheel was needed to achieve the fine input accuracy necesary to achieve world class lap times.
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+1 👍

PD did not try to make it harder for pad users , thats just a side effect of realistic physics.
 
937202-facepalm_implied_super2.jpg
 
trevisio
Thats exactly what the businesses profiting from our enthusiasm for driving games want, no I'm not falling for it and I think anyone who does is a mug :)
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Right. I bought a G25 because I fell for a corporate conspiracy.

Wanting a peripheral that allows me to interact with driving simulation software in such a way that my steering, throttle, and brake inputs more accurately reflect the way one would interact with a real vehicle and the sheer enjoyment thereby found had nothing to do with it.
 
I found using a wheel is of no advantage, oversteer is a pain and you can either work like crazy and correct it (which I often can't) or catch it very early and run wide.

Power delivery is much smoother and I can go a little quicker with the wheel. If you can;t modulate the buttons well enough then try triggers.
 
Just to clarify, the fact is that the brake is programmed perfectly linear and the throttle is not when using the controller in this demo. This puts controller users at a disadvantage. It has absolutely nothing to do with the wheel being a better/more realistic device. Its the programming of the throttle or +Maybe+ its a limitation of the PS3 controller hardware? Odd if it is considering the brake works fine.

I'm disappointed because on the other console available to all of us (XBOX360) the controller is no technical disadvantage whatsoever in terms of software programming or hardware capability in comparison to the wheel.

Glubags
Right. I bought a G25 because I fell for a corporate conspiracy.

Wanting a peripheral that allows me to interact with driving simulation software in such a way that my steering, throttle, and brake inputs more accurately reflect the way one would interact with a real vehicle and the sheer enjoyment thereby found had nothing to do with it.
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I agree a wheel gives a more realistic experience, however in this demo it also gives an unfair technical advantage, one that I have not experienced in any other racing game, specifically on the controller the throttle is non linear, unlike the brake.

I'm not the only one who has noticed this :) please refer other threads in this forum about the disadvantage of the controller.

If any wheel users care to try a lap using the controller and post up the results for comparison I'd be most interested.....
 
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trevisio
My point is this game has been deliberately designed to increase the sale of wheel controllers and that is just not right. If I'm in the minority and the majority think its ok for companies to do that, fair enough. This is shocking for me, but clearly some think it is ok for us to be manipulated like this! It just seems really creepy to me that money is allowed to spoil things and we're all like "oh, ok then, I'd better do what I'm told and buy a wheel".

I race in real life, have done for 15 years, won a few championships the in UK too. Real life racing really is about money more than skill, now it looks like online racing is going that way too now, shame.
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I bought a Steering Wheel for the experience not because a company made me. I am now upgrading to a Fanatec Turbo S from a DFGT and don't feel cheated at all. I played with a controller up until GT5P and had zero problems.

Stop generalizing and just don't buy the game as you claim to do.

I also play PC sims and not just GT.

*edit*

Yes the demo does have Traction Control set to a default setting which you can't change which is the reason the throttle is limited at this point, thats been clarified time and time again. When the full game comes out you can continue to use your controller to great effect im sure. Have you tried setting the throotle to R2 and brake to L2? If not then that should help, thats how i played Prologue.
 
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lol this is funny and you call people a mug, your the mug it seems looks like you could get beat by my nephew who is 9 next week, like timeattack said if you dont like it go find something your good at.
 
You know, I have to agree with trevisio on this. The game isn't harder to play without a wheel because the physics engine is better. It is harder to play without a wheel because the throttle settings are screwed up. I wouldn't go so far as to suggest that it is some corporate conspiracy between Logitech and PD, but it certainly is a problem I hope is rectified in the final game.
 
trevisio
If any wheel users care to try a lap using the controller and post up the results for comparison I'd be most interested.....
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Will do later:tup: i bet ill be about 0.3-0.5 per car but i havent use controller on here in about 15 months, i used to find when i used to use the controller some cars/tracks you could be within about 0.2 (like honda NSX/lotus elise)and some you do a great lap and be a nearly a second off (imprezas) thats why i bought a wheel, price didnt bother because its still worth almost as much on ebay now.
 
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timeattack07gt
:lol: You must have had a brain transplant in the past few weeks :odd: Or maybe you've been going to church to repay for all of your sins? :lol:
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I just say what i think when i think it.

Nothing has changed. I'm still the one that beats you with your own setup after two laps of free running...And you are still Mr Excuses..
 
It would be funny if you did manage to win the GT Academy tournament and make it to the finals. Only to find out that you suck at driving a real car with a real steering wheel.

Don't you think that is the whole point of the competition. They are trying to find talent that can drive with a real steering wheel. You might just hold off on your purchase of the PS3 until they start making race cars that run on a controller or just buy a PSP and GT5 then you won't have a disadvantage since it was program for it and not a wheel. :crazy:
 
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R1600Turbo
Long time controller user here, and I had zero issues playing GT5P with it.

As far as the Demo goes, I can agree that controller users are at a disadvantage here, but they can still be fast. I am currently the fastest controller player in the USA, but have dropped to the 20's overall in the last couple weeks. There is a controller player in Australia in the top 5 overall there.

It just takes some serious skill and patience.
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Its the same with everything else in society. if you don't have the money to spend on the best things, you have to work that little bit harder to achieve the same thing.

A good example; Dishwashers. If you don't have one you have to work slightly harder. If you do, its just a case of putting them in, switching it on, and taking them out.

That exact logic can be applied to wheels vs controllers.
 

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