No wheel? Don't bother with the controller on this demo

[snoopybg]

Because it's a GT5 fanboy forum? Anything negative said about gt5 here gets no thought about just ridiculous arguments in return.

 

[The Outlaw]

I just say what i think when i think it.

Nothing has changed. I'm still the one that beats you with your own setup after two laps of free running...And you are still Mr Excuses..

Yea it helps when you can use my draft to keep up for the entire race, while using run off areas

 

[tony1311]

Yea it helps when you can use my draft to keep up for the entire race, while using run off areas

Watch out guys...here comes.....MR EXCUSES!!!

 

[Scaff]

trevisio - Please don't double post, in future can you use the edit button to add to you old post if no one else has posted and only a short amount of time has passed.

I've merged your two posts together for you.

timeattack07gt & tony1311 - Stop the bickering, it has nothing at all to do with the discussion and could well be considered spam.

If you have nothing to add regarding the topic then don't post, dragging it off with your own little 'tiff' is neither needed or acceptable.

You want to 'chat' take it to the PMs.


Scaff

 

[Jack]

Back on topic Tony... owh sorry... Mr Ego

SixAxis users have always been at a disadvantage. A wheel is by far a more precise controller whatever it is. We are still not that disadvantaged though. I was able to hit competitive times when I ran laps for the first week and abit (haven't run again since christmas so could be in last place now though ). Mr Excuses was also the fast SixAxis driver on most combos and was able to reach D1 Gold.

If you want to be the fastest, use a wheel. If you want to be fast, use either

 

[SrRd RacinG]

The best times with a controller are only off by a few seconds (like 2). Even my times are only two or so off in comparison to timeattack's. So really, it isn't THAT bad.

 

[markyboy92]

Short go with the pad on the tuned car 1'37.189, feels weird havent used it for ages in GT5p i think it feels so unnatural now compared to the wheel.

 

[Owen.C93]

Just to clarify, the fact is that the brake is programmed perfectly linear and the throttle is not when using the controller in this demo. Its the programming of the throttle or +Maybe+ its a limitation of the PS3 controller hardware? Odd if it is considering the brake works fine.

Could you explain to me what linear means, in the sense that the brake is but throttle isn't. Thanks.

 

[arora]

Could you explain to me what linear means, in the sense that the brake is but throttle isn't. Thanks.

He means as you increase brake pressure the car responds on a 1:1 basis but for the gas as you get near the end of the x button travel it's more like 1:2 or something like that.

I was not happy when I first got gt5p as I could not play it worth a flip with the pad, on either standard or pro. It hacked me at first but I decided I'd either have to relearn the pad or move to a wheel. It's not that big of a deal 👍

 

[Tornado]

Could you explain to me what linear means, in the sense that the brake is but throttle isn't. Thanks.

In GT3, GT4 and GT:HD, how hard you press the button is exactly how much the throttle and brake are applied. In this demo (as well as Prologue, but I can't confirm that), the brakes works the same way as they did in GT3 and GT4, but the throttle has a weird curve where the throttle is more sensitive the more you push the button in. It is explained better here.

 

[Kilborn230]

Why exactly are we hurling insults at trevisio when this is a known problem with the demo?

Because it's a GT5 fanboy forum? Anything negative said about gt5 here gets no thought about just ridiculous arguments in return.

I'm sure he did it becase he was generalizing and calling down people who buy wheels.

 

[Joey D]

I found the demo to but almost impossible to play with a controller. I know I'm not the greatest driver nor do I inspire to be one, but it really doesn't make me want to purchase the game knowing this is what the final game might be like. I refuse to buy a wheel because they are expensive, they take up a lot of room, they aren't that lifelike and it would be for only one game.

Toronado addressed the linear problem already so I don't really need to go into that. Hopefully it's fixed before the final game is released and they offer an update for the demo to allow people to see how it's going to feel. I really don't fancy spending $60 on a game that makes using the controller the system came with to frustrating to use.

 

[Seismica]

He means as you increase brake pressure the car responds on a 1:1 basis but for the gas as you get near the end of the x button travel it's more like 1:2 or something like that.

I was not happy when I first got gt5p as I could not play it worth a flip with the pad, on either standard or pro. It hacked me at first but I decided I'd either have to relearn the pad or move to a wheel. It's not that big of a deal 👍

But wheel is easier to use if you've never used either before. I have no evidence to support this, i'm just saying that anyone who says the pad is easier or just as easy, has been using the pad for years. Just like i have, it would take me months to adjust to using a wheel.

 

[Hyper-Dan]

All I will say is, using a wheel in GT adds SO much more to the game. 👍

Oh, and nice meme Arora.

 

[trevisio]

Scaff-thanks for the feedback will do

Arora-nice one - a picture really does say a thousand words

Tornado - thanks for that detailed link to a better technical explanation. I've posted the details below. So it is the software causing this issue not the hardware.

To anyone saying it's the controller's fault:

The GT:HD and the JPN GT5P demo did not respond the way GT5P Retail and GT Academy TT do, so obviously it's controllable via software. Video comparing the 3 games (June 2008)

To anyone who says to use the right stick:

The right stick is just as non-linear as R2. Any difference you may claim there to be is simply a placebo effect. Besides, it's easier said than done, re-training yourself to accelerate with a thumbstick when nearly every other racing game you've played since 2001 by default gave you independent control over gas and brake on the triggers.

I made a couple recordings and graphs in July '09 for GT5P:

*"gas pedal pressure" means the in-game car's gas pedal

Video 1 - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5BojZZQiX5w
Video 2 - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g0DS9hrgEGU

 

[wuffa]

one thing i can say about controller vs wheel..

controller - SO easy to catch oversteer, but i seem to bog down every corner

only did 2 laps

 

[d3br34k5]

Oh look its someone who did what they were told and got a wheel after admitting they "could only get so far" with the controller. Mug

Just be happy we have some Gran Turismo before 5 launches.

The G25's been available for a few years now and many GTP members who race competitively in GTP's Weekly Race Series have owned one since they existed.

A smiley face doesn't excuse namecalling, newuser 0001

 

[Biggles]

I'm very dubious that this is a conspiracy by PD/Sony to make more money from selling wheels. I don't think there is any evidence that a G25 is faster than a DFP or DFGT, & DFPs & DFGTs are barely more expensive than pads & I will guarantee that the profit for the sale of pads is way higher than anything Sony would make from licensing the Logitech wheels. It's quite clear that the huge profits in gaming come from selling software, where the manufacturing costs (once the development costs have been covered) are negligible, rather than hardware, which continues to have substantial material & manufacturing costs.

Setting up a proper racing rig can be a problem for many gamers due to lack of space, but the actual cost of the hardware seems minimal compared to the hundreds of dollars people spend on game software.

 

[osrg]

Trevisio, quick question.......

How many pound have you spent in total on your PS3 (As in Console, games etc etc)???

And how much is the DFGT in the UK?

Surely with 15yrs experience circuit racing, all the money you have burnt over the years doing that you could spare about $70 to get a DFGT and screw it onto your computer desk.

But, keeping it absolutely real though now Trevisio...... this competition has been a massive ego buster for a hell of a lot of people here on GTP and all around the world..... myself included. Maybe it's time to just take off the rose coloured glasses and admit you just aren't fast enough, nor good enough to hang with the elite.

 

[Dessy182]

I haven't read all this thread so I am sorry if this has been already said:

This TT is set up with the end goal of finding a real racing driver. Only the people who want it really bad will succeed and get to the national finals - those people will likely already have a wheel or buy one to be competitive (like I did).

Yes I fully agree that the competition will help sales of wheel controllers, but its not a conspiracy - it's a good business idea. With the amount this competition is costing and will cost to run until the end I don't see why anyone should complain about Sony and its partners trying to make a few extra pennies.

And finally you have the option to play this or not to play it - it's not as if it's part of a school system and you are being forced to buy lots of extra books that you don't really need.

 

[GTP_rpm]

Some people take things more seriously than others and get an appartment that has 2 bedrooms with their girlfriend so the 2nd room can be the "games room"...Like me.

Others, just have a little control pad and sit infront of their mums TV before they want to watch "I'm not a Celebrity, Get Me In There" ...

Same with your racing. You'll never be any good if you're not dedicated enough to work hard, to save up and get the best equipment you can in the class. If you honestly couldn't afford the best bits and pieces in real motorsport, you're in the wrong series. There are hundreds of championships out there, that run control engines, tyres, suspension that the cost of racing is no longer an excuse.

The same applies to GT5P / TT... My gaming PC cost more than my PS3, TV, amp, chair, G25, WheelStandPro and copy of GT5 Prologue cost. I'd say that's very much a bargain for someone who is serious about their hobby.

Now my only excuse that I'm not fastest in my country, is that there's currently 15 guys who are better.

 

[jjsahagun]

This TT is set up with the end goal of finding a real racing driver. Only the people who want it really bad will succeed and get to the national finals - those people will likely already have a wheel or buy one to be competitive (like I did).

I'm pretty sure this is the same reason why GT5TT got green ice instead of grass. They need to find real drivers that stay on the road.

 

[H20HYBRID_GT]

Yes, because I'm actually capable of realizing that a hand held controller is a FAR less realistic and accurate input device than a steering wheel. I'm simply not ignorant to realism, which is Kaz' aim for the GT series. I take it Kaz should apologize for making the physics 10 fold better since the days of GT4, when a controller user wasn't at much of a disadvantage to a wheel user due to unrealistic/easy physics.

I was able to do fairly well with the 6-axis in Prologue, but clearly realized with time that a wheel was needed to achieve the fine input accuracy necesary to achieve world class lap times.

You realised all that, but unable to realise they deliberately messed up the sensitivity for acceleration, since the brake sensitivity works perfectly well?

The OP is damn right and you all fell to it.

 

[The Outlaw]

You realised all that, but unable to realise they deliberately messed up the sensitivity for acceleration, since the brake sensitivity works perfectly well?

The OP is damn right and you all fell to it.

Really? I take it you work for PD then?

Funny you say/conspire that PD deliberately miscalculated the linearity of the L2/R2 triggers, when in fact, they aren't even the default buttons for throttle and brake to begin with

The original point I was trying to make is that, even if the R2 trigger had perfect linearity when using it as the throttle, the controller users would still be complaining and making excuses (particularly toward PD) as to why they are unable to achieve laps times of the fastest wheel users...when in their minds they should be capable of doing so. Sorry to say, but PD doesn't need to cater to controller users specifically to help keep them competitive with the best wheel users. Kaz' intentions for the GT series is to create the most realistic driving simulator possible. The complexity and realism of the physics of the GT5/P has gotten to the point to where it just happens to be that a steering/wheel pedal set allows a human to clock a quicker and much more accurate lap than with a 6-axis/DS controller. Fixing the linearity issue with the R2 button when using it as the throttle isn't going to magically make the OP competitive with the best as he so confidently believes and hopes for. Simply put, even if the R2 button had linear throttle actuation, he would still be in for a rude awakening in terms of being competitive.

Might I add that controller users are already given enough handicap as it is...yet are unaware of such and usually quite ungrateful of (as we see in this thread). The amount of steering assist given to a 6-axis/DS user to HELP eliminate excessive steering angle which may cause oversteer/understeer (understeer in particular) is immense. If this steering assist was completely taken away...I could just imagine all of the cry babies out there who would then want to take shots at PD, when all they are really doing is discrediting the realism of physics that we see in GT nowadays.

Such people are better off playing Forza 3 where the physics are simplified/easy enough to where a steering wheel is of little advantage to a skilled controller user (even when taking trigger linearity into account).

 

[Joey D]

A bit of an elitist aren't you? Shouldn't GT be fun for all levels? I mean it's a video game after all.

 

[Stevisiov]

A bit of an elitist aren't you? Shouldn't GT be fun for all levels? I mean it's a video game after all.

I'm pretty sure that time attack was one of the fastest pad users out there (much faster than I was with a wheel), didn't normally see him complaining about it.

I also don't see how a video game must accommodate to all levels, this demo was primarily designed for GTAcademy, a process designed to find the most skilled drivers, its definitely not meant to be easy. Its locked onto professional physics with no driver aids available it pretty much tells you all you need to know about the difficulty requirements.

 

[Imari]

A bit of an elitist aren't you? Shouldn't GT be fun for all levels? I mean it's a video game after all.

There's a difference between fun and competitive. I think GT5D is fun with a pad, but I have no illusions that I would be competitive using one.

 

[Tornado]

I also don't see how a video game must accommodate to all levels, this demo was primarily designed for GTAcademy, a process designed to find the most skilled drivers, its definitely not meant to be easy. Its locked onto professional physics with no driver aids available it pretty much tells you all you need to know about the difficulty requirements.

Based on what was said in the other thread, this problem is actually a holdover from GT5 and therefore much more worrying than if it was just a problem with the demo (though no less unfair).

 

[Stevisiov]

I certainly wouldn't like to see pad users victimised, but on the same token, I certainly wouldn't like to see things simplified for them either, particularly in terms of this competition.

The wheel is a far more accurate tool than the pad when it comes to racing, and in racing, accuracy is everything. The wheel shouldn't be given an artificial advantage, but it shouldn't be pegged back to help level the terms with a pad either.

 

[The Outlaw]

A bit of an elitist aren't you? Shouldn't GT be fun for all levels? I mean it's a video game after all.

Elitist? Yes, when it comes to REALISTIC physics I'd rather have more realistic physics which require a steering wheel to attain those last few tenths out of a given car/track combo, rather than simplified physics that help all players go the same speed regardless of the input device they use. After all, since its conception, GT has been labeled and intended as "the real driving simulator", not the "fun and easy driving game"

If you can't handle the realism, maybe GT (in its current state) isn't the game for you. 💡 I don't know why some of you think PD HAS to create a game that makes everyone happy. That in itself is a elitist train of thought, in thinking that PD should do everything in their power to make "ME" happy/competitive, because I can't obtain a steering wheel/pedal set for whatever reason (money, convenience, space, competitiveness, etc). Sorry, but that's just not the way life nor the World works.

I'm pretty sure that time attack was one of the fastest pad users out there (much faster than I was with a wheel), didn't normally see him complaining about it.

Exactly 👍 I simply realized that with the 6-axis (regardless of button linearity) I was still going to be at a disadvantage to a highly proficient wheel user, and did the best I could given with what I had to work with. It just happens that a wheel/pedal set is much more suited to the job at hand (a driving/racing simulator), in comparison to the 6-axis/DS controller.