Tyre Discussion, What tyres are ACTUALLY the most realistic?

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lucag120

lucag120

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lucag120
I want to discuss the topic of which tyres (in my opinion either sports hard or comfort soft) are closest to the real life tyres of performance road cars like the Ferraris, Lamborghini, Nissan GTR, Subaru WRX and others.

I have tested these 2 tyres like so....

Nurburgring lap times, 0-100km/h times and other track lap times.

So far:
-i think comfort softs are more realistic on 4wd cars like the gtr and the wrx.
-i think the sport hard tryes are more realistic on the mr cars like the ferraris.
-i think the 0-100 times on comfort soft tyres are too slow, but they produce a more realistic lap time.
-i do use a ds3 controller, but i am quite handy. Although i am terrible on standing starts because i cannot modulate the throttle.

-Can somone with a wheel give the 0-100 times a go on both compounds??


I also tested sports mediums but they were too fast.

If anyone is willing to help me out by doing testing of the tyres with tests like i am doing. Just jot down what you did and what the results were.

I am going to add some findings i have found a bit later.
 
Me and some mates had a very good run with the Nascar cars on both speedways, on Sports softs, all races were 10 laps.

Physics whise, with a wheel on simulation it resembled a sim me and those freinds played in the past, ARCA. That is one of the best nascar sims around and with the sports tires, the cars felt alot more sketchy like it should. We had a great run and some great 5 lap bumpfdrafts. Wich made me believe the wright tyres are indeed a plus on the experience.

So for Nascar i would say Sports, soft (probably medium too but didn't try that)

As for now i'm trying to stay away from race tyres as far as i can.

Take notes that i mean this for race cars, so yes, for exotics sports hars seem allright, and then into comforts for more normal ones.
 
Sport Soft, IMO, would to be anything 100AA under with grooves/sipes, may be 80~60AA and what America would call DOT legal race tire, mostly for autox/trackday or spec series.

Anything "Racing" would be slick and not DOT legal.
 
I find the sports hard most tricky to drive, probably even more so than comfort for some reason. I've always had a hard to using them. Sports soft is too easy in most cases. I've been doing a lot of random driving on Sports Medium and they give you that "slippery" feeling that the hard gives but more predictable...
 
OK, so i've done some testing.

But with one particular thing in mind. The weight of the driver ~75kg is not included in GT5! So the times should be a little faster than real life.

My tests this morning were with the 458 italia on the Top Gear Test Track. Dualshock 3. No driving Aids except for abs=1, BB, Front:8 Rear:8.

Top Gear Lap Times: Standing start as close to the line as possible.

Comfort Softs: 1.20.1
This took me many laps and this was the cleanest run i could do. The stig would not have practiced as much as i did to do this lap.

Sport Hards: 1.17.187
This also took me a while, after i worked out using 3rd gear for all corner exits was faster i did a great lap. Not much that i could improve on.

I think the sport hards are the best suited tyre for the Ferrari 458 italia.
They also produced low 3 second 0-100km/h runs off the line.

Important to note:
-Top Gear Lap time for the 458 is a 1.19.0
-An extra 75-80kg is worth probably 1-2 seconds on this track.

Please, someone give this a go and try and better my lap times.
 
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I don't want to be a jerk but if the stig pulled out a 1:19 in the real world and you got a 1:20... Unless you too are Ben Collins, even comfort softs are too soft.
 
Sarlac
I don't want to be a jerk but if the stig pulled out a 1:19 in the real world and you got a 1:20... Unless you too are Ben Collins, even comfort softs are too soft.
Click to expand...

Fear/humidity/temperature/style of driving

A lot of things factor.
 
Sarlac
I don't want to be a jerk but if the stig pulled out a 1:19 in the real world and you got a 1:20... Unless you too are Ben Collins, even comfort softs are too soft.
Click to expand...

I can lap nurburgring nordschleife in 6:55 in a modded 2002 NSX TYPE R with racing soft tires, all helpers off including ABS. Obviously I can't do this in real life. You are always faster in the game than in real life.
 
I think the 75kg that the car must carry(the driver) in the real world accounts for the fact that sport hards are faster than real life lap times.

That and the fact that you can find more lap time speed faster because of no fear of crashing or anything.

But,strangely the Nissan GTR does seem to have an advantage over most current Ferraris at Tsukuba, and even more strangely, an advantage over the Nissan GTR SpecV???

Oh and i lapped the Top Gear Test track with the Nissan GTR Black Mask in 1.17.1 with sport hards. Feels very good.

All with Dualshock 3, anyone with a wheel, please try and go faster, i think there is a lot more speed to be found.
 
Something you missed. Fuel weight is not accounted for in offline practise.

Try this same experiment in online practise in your private lounge and you'll see your acceleration time increase, and the car handles differently. Tyres are also a lot colder, and have wear, so the grip is more dynamic
 
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I always tend to stay on the tyres that the car came with stock. Which I assume is about right for the car.

If I tune the car up then the tyres have to increase releted to the tune.

If I go online I tend to jump up a tyre set as well as the grip is less and the tyres go off quicker.

E.G : Ferrari 458 Stock : Sport Hard (What PD set)
458 Tuned : Sport Soft
458 Online : Sport Soft

Same Principle for all the cars I have.:)
 
yeah CoolColJ you're right.

I do have a problem with the physics online though, i don't think they're as good as the offline physics are. The oversteer is way too unpredictable and the aerodynamic balance changes for some reason(i found that out testing the f10 online)

But the tyre wear and fuel depletion certainly is a good point. But since there is no way of measuring the amount of weight the fuel in each car has it leaves us a dead end there.

I just did a few laps on the ring with a Stock Enzo, sports hards of course, 7.27.714. WOW, i would not like to try THAT in real life. Honestly massively scary stuff. That car is not made for very bumpy circuits.

I think going for the tyres that come stock with the car is the best benchmark. As my tests have proven. 👍
 
For me, the sports tyres are the most realistic ones because most street cars feel great with sports tyres.

Racing tyres are good in some cases. But sometimes it feels like there is too much grip and the limit, where the tyres looses its grip is (maybe) too wide.

So in real world a race tyre looses grip and it is hard to stay on track without spinning. In GT5 you can drift and catch the rear even with race tyres.

But I can´t get, why you always compare lap times between game and real world. You don´t feel g-force, fear of crashing or strength of mechanical damage while getting too hard over curbs etc.

You sit quietly and relaxed in your seats and only need to steer while in reality each reaction of the car has enormous physical effects on the body and the perception.

So it is natural, that you lap times are faster than real world. I mean, the physics would´t be any correct, when your lap times are the same or slower.
 
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Solid Point Big Ron.

I just love analysing things. And i want to make sure that GT5 is a good sim.

The affect when turning abs off however makes the game about 50 times more difficult and i am not sure if it is correct even after adjusting the brake balance to something like front:4 and rear:2.

And that point you make about hitting curbs is also correct, it feels like the tyre just squashes over the curb and there is no real clanking thud you hear from the chassis landing hard on the ground. It is easier to take little shortcuts over curbs in GT5.

I would like it if someone could please lap the ring in a Nissan GTR on comfort softs to beat the real life record. I cannot come close to the time!
I am doing it for a challenge.
 
I think your analysis is pretty accurate, I have lapped the ring and compare it with the real world times in a lot of cars, the sports hard tire on most supercars produce pretty accurate results, although I am consistently quicker than the real time for about 10 seconds, that can be attributed to the absent of fuel weight, no brake fade, and perfect tire condition at all times.

given most ring record are done in absolute best conditions, the sports hard is pretty close to semi slicks like D01J, RE55 etc.

On 90's sports cars the comfort soft seems to be more period accurate, but they are still high profile street tires, something you fit on stock Ferrari and Porsche.

I don't think it is possible to beat the real GTR ring time with the comfort soft unless you use Spin recovery force, you lose 30-40 second compare to the racing hard and so far I haven't seen anyone done sub 7 minutes time with racing hard.
 
This is nice thread!

I love to compare stock cars doing lap times, but I got stuck with tyres...Is there any "native" tyres option? I remember in GT5P manual there is a list of tyres that are most close to the car's stock tyres.Nothing about it in GT5.
 
Sarlac
I don't want to be a jerk but if the stig pulled out a 1:19 in the real world and you got a 1:20... Unless you too are Ben Collins, even comfort softs are too soft.
Click to expand...

Times in a video game produced by a video gamer are always several seconds faster than the real life lap time in the same car/same track.
A car magazine also did a test about that once.
They contribute that difference to the game of course not being 100% realistic and the psychological factor of having no consequences in the game - not being able to hurt yourself or a real car. :)
So I think for a laptime to be close to real, either the gamer/driver is not that good or the tires picked have grip below the real ones.
 
Big Ron
...sometimes it feels like there is too much grip and the limit, where the tyres looses its grip is (maybe) too wide.

So in real world a race tyre looses grip and it is hard to stay on track without spinning. In GT5 you can drift and catch the rear even with race tyres. ...
Click to expand...

I always wondered about that fact. It seems there is still some kind of driving aid active, even with all the aids off. Some weird GT help-thing. On any tire once I lose grip and start sliding, the car just seems to catch itself and find the grip back. Strange.
But it helps to drive clean and fast :)
 
Driver46
I always wondered about that fact. It seems there is still some kind of driving aid active, even with all the aids off. Some weird GT help-thing. On any tire once I lose grip and start sliding, the car just seems to catch itself and find the grip back. Strange.
But it helps to drive clean and fast :)
Click to expand...

I don´t think it has something to do with driving aids. It is just the physics of the tyre itself. The tyre physics has its own program code, diagram curve or whatever in the game. So it reacts in result of parameters, the developer gave it.
 
Good question! I asked it myself, too, so I did a little testing...

Short answer: The realistic tyre for a street car (not racing machines) is one step worse than it comes with! So if you get a car with S-H tyres, the realistic choice for 'street-use' will be C-S, the default tyre of a car is more suited for amateur racing (street-legal but 'semi-slick' track-tyres).

Long answer: I bought some 'street-cars', from 200 BHP to 450 BHP, and bought all tyres for them, then went to my favourite track (Suzuka), and tested them with every help turned off except ABS (I tested the old cars with ABS off). I checked acceleration, braking abilities, cornering, intentional and unintentional mistakes and the most important factor: 'feel': which one gives the most 'I'm actually in the car, driving those monster'-feeling. I made at least 2 clean laps with times closer than 0.5 seconds with each car, with each tyre, to be the more accurate in my decisions. (I've never driven anything with more than 150 BHP IRL, so these thoughts are theoretical. I do ride a motorcycle IRL though, and I tried it from touring tyres to slicks on some racetracks - it's not the same, but I at least know something about tyre-differences on a ~3.2 weight/power ratio machine IRL)

I found that most of the street-supercars (F430, Alfa C8, Gallardo, etc) were most 'fun' using C-S tyres. With C-S tyres, you can 'feel' the power of those machines, they'll punish you if you try something rash (like flooring them in mid-corner), but remain controllable otherwise. With C-M and C-H, they become relatively sluggish, and they slip off the road too easily, the acceleration and cornering abilities suffer too much. With S-H, they are way much faster then with C-S, but lose quite a bit of those 'feel'. You can still make mistakes though, so these tyres are for trackdays I think, for the 'average' street car user. With S-M and S-S, the 'feel' goes away and control becomes arcadeish, not to mention R-H, R-M and R-S, those are slick tyres only for track-use. (I personally think they have too much grip for even that, but I can't prove myself, sadly I haven't a ferrari at home to check it IRL... ;) )

The 'normal' sportcars (Acura NSX '91, Nissan ZX-300, Mazda RX-7, etc) feel best with C-M, with the strange exception of the NSX. The Acura shines with S-H, I don't know why... S-H gives those car the most 'feel', and with C-tyres it's just a sluggish joke. The other cars in its category are the same: 250+ BHP is no joke IRL, and they show this behaviour mostly with C-M tyres. Most of them come with C-S tyres, so the same logic appears here as well: C-M for 'everyday-use', C-S for tuned street use with some trackdays, and maybe S-H for an amateur trophy participant.

I read somewhere, that PD-programmers said the same: the default tyre simulates a track-day-use car, and the one (or sometimes more) step worse tyre is as it comes from a dealership IRL. From my little testing, I can say they made an excellent work there, Thank You, Polyphony Digital! :)
 
Good post Rattak.

A member once told me it's softs or go home. Whilst he may be correct for grinding out events and such. I much prefer the physics with hard versions of tires.
Definitely going to try your 1 grade down from dealership tire.

Thanks
 
Some cars like the Cizeta V16T have almost no grip on hard Sports, so I don't think it's universal thing
 
I think there is only 1 way to determine the correct stock tyre; lateral g numbers.

I know there is some data online about lateral g loadings for different supercars.

For those of you who aren't sure what lateral g is. It is the g force the car creates when cornering, the maximum cornering lateral g force is the force the tyre can withstand just before it starts to slide.

I will produce a report of my findings as i go.

I will test comfort soft and sports hard. Using the Nissan GTR, Ferrari f430 scuderia, Ferrari 458 Italia, Lamborghini Gallardo and probably some others.
Given the information on the net is there.

For the test i will use a relatively fast, long radius corner that is flat. Like the final corner at Tsukuba.
 
Big Ron
I don´t think it has something to do with driving aids. It is just the physics of the tyre itself. The tyre physics has its own program code, diagram curve or whatever in the game. So it reacts in result of parameters, the developer gave it.
Click to expand...

Yes, you say it better. I just said driving aid cause it feels like something is stepping in to help you but you are right.
I the game I was never was able to get a car out of control and to spin while being on tarmac the whole time. I had to touch the grass first.
 
... I checked acceleration, braking abilities, cornering, intentional and unintentional mistakes ...
Click to expand...

What about the braking abilities?
There is a thread here on the forum that states that there is no difference on cars with the same tires when it comes to braking distances and the time it takes to stop.
That person did a test on SH tires with the heavy dodge challenger vs the ZR1. Apparently there was no difference in stopping distance whereas there is a big difference in real life.
I hope that is not true.
What did you find out?
 
Ok, well i could not find exact numbers of lateral accelertation for any car.

Except one article i read about the Ferrari 360 CS, which lapped the top gear test track within .6 tenths of the standard f430. It says, with the tyres on the Ferrari it was able to achieve 1.3g's of acceleration.

So i went to Tsukuba in the f430, knowing that the numbers would have to be similar because the 360 CS wouldn't have made it's lap time at the Top Gear Track from going faster down the straights so the cornering speeds must be very similar and so should be the lateral g's.

Comfort Soft's gave me maximum sustained g's of 1.05-1.15,(1.25 absolute max) with a lap time of 1.03.4. And a 0-100 time of 4.2 seconds.


Sport Hard's gave me a maximum sustained g's of 1.2-1.3.(1.4 absolute max) with a lap time of 1.01.6. And a 0-100 time of 3.9 seconds.(calculated by parking as close as possible to start line at Tsukuba)


So my verdict:

Definitely go the sport hard tyres if looking for most realistic drive.

I will do a test with another car to confirm this for Supercars of the f430's caliber.

Now, i am assessing the Lamborghini Gallardo and Nissan GTR.

The Lamborghini Gallardo:

0-100km/h TEST
Comfort Softs: 3.5 seconds (Claimed factory spec is 3.6 seconds)

Sport Hards: 3.4 second

Lateral G-forces:

Comfort Softs: 1.1

Sport Hards: 1.25-1.35



Nissan GTR:

0-100
Comforts Softs: 3.6

Sport Hards: 3.4

Lateral G's

CS: 1.25

SH: 1.35-1.4

The Nissan is at least 200-300kgs more than the other cars so it's expected to hold a higher g value.


Verdict so far:

Sport Hards are still the best tyre for realism by the numbers, the Comfort Softs just aren't providing enough lateral grip, even though the laptimes seem like they're close to real life. I guess the way people drive in games just allows you to take short cuts over curbs and also GT5 is missing an extra 75kg in each car because they don't include driver weights in the cars. So that also explains why the laptimes are faster that most real life times in GT5 on the Sport Hards.

Just for interest and fun:
GTR 'Ring time on Comfort Softs:
Stay tuned..
 
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I always stick with sport hards on my street cars, for my own driving and most offline use. Sport soft is pretty much required if you want to keep up with anyone else.

But in my opinion, the comfort tires cover a range of all season tires and some harder-compound summer tires. Sport hards are similar to street legal Ultra High Performance type of tires, like Dunlop Direzza Star Specs, Yokohama AD08s, etc. Further than that, I'm not sure as I've never driven a real car on slicks. I would bet that race hards are the grippiest "realistic" tire in the game and medium and soft compounds offer too much grip, short of maybe a special qualifier compound, but with way better wear.
 

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