Tyre Discussion, What tyres are ACTUALLY the most realistic?

[Big Ron]

Short answer: The realistic tyre for a street car (not racing machines) is one step worse than it comes with! So if you get a car with S-H tyres, the realistic choice for 'street-use' will be C-S, the default tyre of a car is more suited for amateur racing (street-legal but 'semi-slick' track-tyres).

Sorry, but that can´t be true. You try to tell us, that a Ferrari should use the same tyres as a VW Polo (comfort tyres) to feel realistic?

So in real life, sports cars have no comfort tyres, they use high performance tyres to get grip on the road.

And high performance tyres are nearly the same like sports tyres in GT5 (less pattern, more contact area), comfort tyres are for family vans, VW Polos or low powered cars. Not even a BMW M3 uses normal street tyres but high performance tyres.

 

[JJ72]

That is true as the the polo should be on comfort medium, conclusion of most findings in this thread.

 

[RatrakVFR]

Weellll, I didn't do maths, I checked 'feel' instead and driving 'fun'. Yes, it's not a very scientific approach, but I play this game for fun, and not for anything else. If you wanna be fast, choose R-S tyres for all cars, even Polos, they'll FLY with them. Tyres are the best tuning in this game (and actually, in the real world as well, as far as I know.)

It's important, that I switched every help off, to get the most out of the 'feel' part. This makes every car more lively, and driving much, much harder, so my lap times suck.... But this test (at least for me) is not about laptimes.

I say, that a Ferrari should use 'comfort' tyres not because those are the ones that a Polo should use, but because on those tyres, if you switch every help off, and floor the machine, it'll definitely spin its wheels in not only 1st but 2nd gear as well, it punishes you if you floor it in the middle of a turn, and altogether, you must be a 'safe-driver', else you'll face the opposite direction sooner than you can blink... I've never driven a Ferrari-like sportscar IRL, but I do love car tests, and all the testers say that if you switch off the helping electronics, and do something foolish, you'll die. And all-in-all, C-S tyres simulate that feeling best in GT5 IMO, that's why I'd recommend them if you want realism. Even on S-H, with all helps off, those supercars are just too easy to drive, too forgiving, too hard to make significant errors. I don't think that's realistic. A Ferrari MUST kill you if you do something stupid without electronic assistance. Actually, the Viper is said to be the most 'widow-maker' of them all, and in the game it just isn't, even with C-H tyres, that's a shame... But I still think that in most cases '1 grade down' works.

Yes, for 'real' track use, S-H is much better. For fun? Definetly C-S. And for ANY competition (against AI or human opponents)? R-S, if possible, no question....

Braking abilities: Sadly I believe Driver46's source is correct: in GT5 braking distances are more related to tyres than anything else. I didn't check the exact opposites yet (like some muscle car vs. GSXR/4), but braking performance seems to be affected mainly (probably only) by the tyre choice.

Acceleration feels stupid as well, cars are WAY too much faster on better tyres... They should be, but not this much, I think.

Cizeta is a standard car, I tested only on Premiums, because those cars have 'real' physics according to PD. And I already found the Acura, or the Viper as an exception, there may be others as well.

All in all, when I race, I choose the best tyres available, and use electronic helps as well.
But I finished most of the grinding part of the game (I don't want to do everything, and I just finished Nurb 4hours A-spec, that's enough for me), so my focus now is on 'fun'. And for sheer driving fun, I the '1 grade down'-method seems to work...

 

[JTSnooks]

Sadly, I don't think there's an easy formula to determine what tires should be used on what car in GT5. You'd have to know what type of tires are equipped on the real-life car, and pick a GT5 tire that's similar. Basically, almost every car in the world is sold with what GT5 refers to as "comfort". You can also read "comfort" to mean "street tire". The way I see it is as follows:

Comfort Hard: Normal all-season tires that would be equipped on an average economy car. They'd probably have around a 30,000-35,000 mile warranty
Comfort Medium: Dry/wet "performance" tires such as what would be equipped on a sporty model of say a Mustang or S2000. They'd probably have around a 25,000 mile expected life.
Comfort Softs: Summer "Ultra-high performance" dry/wet tires that would be equipped on a Corvette or base model Porsche. These would only be expected to last maybe 15,000-20,000 miles, and would be on the majority of the performance cars and even exotics.

Sports Hard: These would be a "DOT legal" tire, but very few would ever run them on the road as they would only have an expected life of around 10,000-15,000 miles. These would be like the extremely soft tires that come on the Nissan GT-R (which is why it turns such impressive lap times compared to a Corvette that comes with much harder tires that will last much longer). They have grooves and you can drive them in light rain, but they're designed to be heated up before hitting their highest grip level and they'll wear out very quickly on the street or rough roads.
Sports Medium: Generally the same as Sports Hards, just a softer compound. These would probably be common autocross tires that one would fit only while at the track and take off when they leave.
Sports Soft: Same as Medium, only a bit softer. Probably only expected to last for 2-3 track days, or maybe 8-10 autocrosses. Used for setting "qualifying" lap times, but wouldn't make it for a whole race.

Race Hard: Non street-legal, no grooves. Entirely different construction from street tires, and would only be used in true races where you aren't required DOT tires.
Race Medium: Softer compound, won't last as many laps
Race Softs: Qualifying tires, if tires even exist in real life with as much grip. Only good for 2-3 laps (although in GT5 they can last for 10-15 easily).

Unfortunately, GT5 seems to lump everything into two or three categories, and based almost entirely on how much power the car makes. Under ~250hp - Comfort Softs. Over ~300hp - Sports Hards.

I think the only way to get *close* to the right tire is to compare the real-life brand and model of tire that the car comes with to the descriptions above and estimate off of that.

 

[CoolColJ]

Weellll, I didn't do maths, I checked 'feel' instead and driving 'fun'. Yes, it's not a very scientific approach, but I play this game for fun, and not for anything else. If you wanna be fast, choose R-S tyres for all cars, even Polos, they'll FLY with them. Tyres are the best tuning in this game (and actually, in the real world as well, as far as I know.)

It's important, that I switched every help off, to get the most out of the 'feel' part. This makes every car more lively, and driving much, much harder, so my lap times suck.... But this test (at least for me) is not about laptimes.

I say, that a Ferrari should use 'comfort' tyres not because those are the ones that a Polo should use, but because on those tyres, if you switch every help off, and floor the machine, it'll definitely spin its wheels in not only 1st but 2nd gear as well, it punishes you if you floor it in the middle of a turn, and altogether, you must be a 'safe-driver', else you'll face the opposite direction sooner than you can blink... I've never driven a Ferrari-like sportscar IRL, but I do love car tests, and all the testers say that if you switch off the helping electronics, and do something foolish, you'll die. And all-in-all, C-S tyres simulate that feeling best in GT5 IMO, that's why I'd recommend them if you want realism. Even on S-H, with all helps off, those supercars are just too easy to drive, too forgiving, too hard to make significant errors. I don't think that's realistic. A Ferrari MUST kill you if you do something stupid without electronic assistance. Actually, the Viper is said to be the most 'widow-maker' of them all, and in the game it just isn't, even with C-H tyres, that's a shame... But I still think that in most cases '1 grade down' works.

Yes, for 'real' track use, S-H is much better. For fun? Definetly C-S. And for ANY competition (against AI or human opponents)? R-S, if possible, no question....

Braking abilities: Sadly I believe Driver46's source is correct: in GT5 braking distances are more related to tyres than anything else. I didn't check the exact opposites yet (like some muscle car vs. GSXR/4), but braking performance seems to be affected mainly (probably only) by the tyre choice.

Acceleration feels stupid as well, cars are WAY too much faster on better tyres... They should be, but not this much, I think.

Cizeta is a standard car, I tested only on Premiums, because those cars have 'real' physics according to PD. And I already found the Acura, or the Viper as an exception, there may be others as well.

All in all, when I race, I choose the best tyres available, and use electronic helps as well.
But I finished most of the grinding part of the game (I don't want to do everything, and I just finished Nurb 4hours A-spec, that's enough for me), so my focus now is on 'fun'. And for sheer driving fun, I the '1 grade down'-method seems to work...

I dunno I found the Mclaren F1 really hard to drive with Hard sports tyres
DFGT wheel, no aids, no ABS. The Cizeta was much the same, even worse I think. The Zonda C12s felt a little better
With Sports medium things improved a lot, as shown in the later half of the video with the winged version.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uxMxCI5CBUE


I don't think racing with Hard sports tyres is an option for these types of cars...
In the real world, on track days and such, people would use a Toyo R888 or equalient and Soft sports would be like that

 

[lucag120]

I'm standing by the lateral g tests i did earlier. It's the only thing we can actually measure.

The rest if just talking and mumbo jumbo.

I do agree that every tyre in real life would be different and gt5 doesn't replicate that well.

 

[JTSnooks]

I'm standing by the lateral g tests i did earlier. It's the only thing we can actually measure.

The rest if just talking and mumbo jumbo.

I do agree that every tyre in real life would be different and gt5 doesn't replicate that well.

You're basing your conclusions on one lateral G measurement for 1 car and comparing it to a completely different tack with a completely different track surface? Also, there are a lot of ways to get average lateral Gs, and all produce different results. 200ft diameter skidpads, 300ft diameter skidpads, asphalt, concrete, etc.

I'd recommend taking some cars that have been heavily tested (I could find tons of tests on Z06 or ZR1) and do some constant-radius turns on a wide track, probably the wide runway on TG TT. BTW, 1.3G is ridiculously high, I've never heard of a number that high on a street car with street tires, so I doubt the validity of your testing. Even exotics usually only pull .99-1.05G. 1.3 is more like a street car on racing slicks, not street tires.

 

[Verbal]

BTW, 1.3G is ridiculously high, I've never heard of a number that high on a street car with street tires, so I doubt the validity of your testing. Even exotics usually only pull .99-1.05G. 1.3 is more like a street car on racing slicks, not street tires.

Here are some test results from German "Sport Auto" magazine:

Gumpert Apollo Sport: 1.5 g (Michelin Pilot Sport Cup)
Porsche 911 GT2 RS: 1.5 g (Michelin Pilot Sport Cup)
Porsche 911 GT3 RS: 1.5 g (Michelin Pilot Sport Cup)
Audi R8 GT: 1.4 g (Pirelli P Zero Corsa R02)
Porsche 911 GT3: 1.4 g (Michelin Pilot Sport Cup)
Audi R8 5.2 FSI: 1.35 g (Pirelli P Zero Corsa)
Ferrari 458 Italia: 1.35 g (Michelin Pilot Sport K1)
Lexus LFA: 1.35 g (Bridgestone S001)
Nissan GT-R: 1.35 g (Dunlop SP Sport 600 DSST)
BMW M3 GTS: 1.3 g (Pirelli P Zero Corsa)
Ferrari California: 1.3 g (Pirelli P Zero)
Lamborghini Gallardo 560-4: 1.3 g (Pirelli P Zero Corsa)
Lamborghini Murcielago 670-4 SV: 1.3 g (Pirelli P Zero Corsa)
Porsche Boxster S: 1.3 g (Bridgestone RE050A)
Audi TT RS: 1.25 g (Michelin Pilot Sport)
VW Golf R: 1.15 g (Dunlop Sport Maxx GT)

All on street legal tires.

 

[lucag120]

Here are some test results from German "Sport Auto" magazine:

Gumpert Apollo Sport: 1.5 g (Michelin Pilot Sport Cup)
Porsche 911 GT2 RS: 1.5 g (Michelin Pilot Sport Cup)
Porsche 911 GT3 RS: 1.5 g (Michelin Pilot Sport Cup)
Audi R8 GT: 1.4 g (Pirelli P Zero Corsa R02)
Porsche 911 GT3: 1.4 g (Michelin Pilot Sport Cup)
Audi R8 5.2 FSI: 1.35 g (Pirelli P Zero Corsa)
Ferrari 458 Italia: 1.35 g (Michelin Pilot Sport K1)
Lexus LFA: 1.35 g (Bridgestone S001)
Nissan GT-R: 1.35 g (Dunlop SP Sport 600 DSST)
BMW M3 GTS: 1.3 g (Pirelli P Zero Corsa)
Ferrari California: 1.3 g (Pirelli P Zero)
Lamborghini Gallardo 560-4: 1.3 g (Pirelli P Zero Corsa)
Lamborghini Murcielago 670-4 SV: 1.3 g (Pirelli P Zero Corsa)
Porsche Boxster S: 1.3 g (Bridgestone RE050A)
Audi TT RS: 1.25 g (Michelin Pilot Sport)
VW Golf R: 1.15 g (Dunlop Sport Maxx GT)

All on street legal tires.

THATS AWSOME DATA!! What radius corner's did they use??

Also, can you send me the link to that?!!

Oh and JTSnooks, to clarify, i used 3 different cars on the final corner of Tsukuba circuit on both comfort softs and sport hards. I think the test yielded fair results.

Oh and i just did a lap of the 'Ring in a GTR, comfort Softs, 7.34.849. Very difficult on these tyres. Awesome fun though.

 

[CoolColJ]

Interesting, because if you look at the Insideline track test videos, cars like the GT-R 0.93G, and Spec V version is at 1.12G. LFA at 1.05G, R8 V10 0.97g, ZR1 1.06g

a few, has braking and salom tests as well

GT-R


Spec V


LFA


R8 V10


ZR1

 

[lucag120]

hmmm, i think it depends on the radius of the corner and the driver.

I would trust the German Sport Auto, they probably have ex-race car drivers giving the cars a good running over.

 

[CoolColJ]

No video though, at least with the ones I posted you can see it being done. Maybe they only gave out peak figures

 

[JJ72]

peak figure differs from skid pad figure quite a lot given race track has camber, elevation, a car might also momentally pull higher Gs under specific tire load. I too think 1.3 pure laterial G is too much, even the GTR specV only just go above 1.1 G with factory rubber.

 

[lucag120]

Again, depends on a lot of things.

I can't watch those videos right now as my net is slow for another 24hrs.

But i will watch them tomorrow and try to replicate the tests again.

I still think that values of 1.2-1.5 is correct for cars such as the f430 scuderia and gtr, regardless of what the skid pan tests say.

After i watch the videos i will try to replicate the test by using a similar radius corner in the game with no camber.

Edit:
I just watched the videos, and it looks like the cars are going about 80km/h, that's not the speed where peak g loadings are. I reckon 120-130km is and that's the speed my tests were done.

Maybe the larger the radius corner, to an extent, the more g's you can pull with these cars.

 

[Eunos_Cosmo]

While in the real world there is fear involved, sometimes there are laps that are simply as close to perfect as you can imagine:

Here is Jarno Trulli at Monaco 2004:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rWYVCdqze7g

That car, on that day, could probably not go another 1/100th faster.

Here is another astonishingly flat-out lap at Bathurst:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bLPkTzIIY9M

Ben Collins knew the TGTT very well, I don't think he held back anything on those laps. I think they were about as close to flat-out as possible.

 

[Verbal]

THATS AWSOME DATA!! What radius corner's did they use??

Also, can you send me the link to that?!!

These numbers are from the stack on my nighttable...
In each issue they do what they call a "Supertest" with one car that includes tests on the Nordschleife, Hockenheim, Dunlop's test center and some old airfield near Stuttgart. They even get to use Daimler's wind tunnel. They've been doing this since the end of the 90s, so there's loads of data. Online versions can be found here:
http://www.sportauto-online.de/supertests-978719.html

They used to use one fast corner (~100 mph) in the short link at Hockenheim for the lateral acceleration, but I remember they were starting to have issues of not having enough run up with some cars there. Not sure where they do it now...

 

[Big Ron]

Yesterday, I tried out to test the Ferrari 430 Scuderia with comfort soft tyres and every aid off. There wasn´t really a chance to get fast or keep the car controlable on track....felt not like a fast sports car but more like a overpowered car. All in all not, what I would imagine how a Ferrari handles.

For me sports hard still are the pendant of performance sports tyres in real world. And sports soft are what you would call a race track semi slick, because the grip difference between sports hard and soft is enormous.

 

[CoolColJ]

Here is EVO driving a 458 hard around Maranello, it's not as slippy as Comfort Softs are in GT5

 

[Bigbazz]

Gran Turismo is a weird one to tell which are most realistic as the tyres appear to have less grip than say iRacing, yet the laptimes are much faster. Tuned Japanese cars and standard supercars in the 500-670bhp range will all pull laptimes around 1.10-1.12 at the top gear test track on soft sports without any trouble. This is obviously way too fast to be realistic. However, the way the cars handle and the grip available with some of those cars (atleast the MR cars) is closer to the real thing.

The GT-R has insane grip in the game, and a standard one will produce laptimes on the same level as a Mclaren F1, Ferrari Enzo, 458 Italia and other supercars in that range, yet in real life it is pretty close to that situation too, so i don't think using weaker tyres to counteract the extra traction of 4WD is realistic, as the 4WD has far more traction in the real world too.


It seems that to get realistic laptimes on certain tracks you have to seriously gimp yourself with tyre choice, which will result in the car being far more difficult too drive and far less grippy than the real thing. The Top Gear test track supercar laptimes in real life are in the region of 1:17-1:19 on road tyres, which in gran turismo is extremely slow for the high end supercars, i've thrown 350bhp cars around in 1.17




Edit : Above video posted is Fiorano not Maranello.

 

[CoolColJ]

I think it's because of other factors in real world that aren't being simulated, such as usual fear, g-forces, but also temperature, transmission and drive train power losses, brake temps and fade, surface irregularities etc.
Plus brakes are stronger in the game than in real life most probably, especially with the super ABS system in GT5

 

[Zer0]

Q: ONE IMPORTANT QUESTION:

WHICH TIRES WERE YOU USING IN GT5 AND IN THE REAL VID!!!!???

I MUST KNOW THIS THX DANKE

A: Michelin Pilot Sport II (standart) in real life and sport hard in the game.

Q: THX for the answear... but dont you think that in-game the tires comfort-soft would be more compareable to those pilot sports... because i thought the sport tires in-game are more like street-illegal (germany ) SEMI-slick tires.... what you think?!

A: Yes, I agree with you. I tried comfort-soft and they are much closer to PSII. Maybe even comfort-middle. And the car reacts much more realistic with those tires and lap time matches almost 100% with reality

 

[RatrakVFR]

With all aids off a 400+ Hp sportscar SHOULD be hard to handle on street-legal tyres. Yes, it's overpowered. That's why they use electronic help IRL if they don't wanna die.
I dunno why some of you guys tell me, that it's too hard to drive that way. Yes, it is hard. No, those cars are not MEANT to be driven that way. If you have a Ferrari, and go to a racetrack, you still WILL use electronics, and you probably will change its tyres before track-use. And that's I think is simulated well with S-H or S-M tyres in the game. Switch on the helps with C-S, and it suddenly becomes way much easier to drive those monsters. Like they should, and like they are IRL.

Oh, and McLaren F1 is another league I think, even compared to a F430.

 

[niky]

The F1 is reputed to be a twitchy, unforgiving monster in real life, thanks to the lack of a rear bar. One EVO video has it going from "taking a corner" to "bat-guano sideways" in less than the blink of an eye... and that's midcorner without trail-braking!

Even with just 250-300 horsepower, incautious movements of the right foot have their consequences in real life, though how badly these affect the car will depend on a lot of things... torque, transmission, clutch engagement, tires... I've done donuts with as little as 160 horsepower. But said vehicle had a boatload of turbodiesel torque and really terrible tires.

Gran Turismo is a weird one to tell which are most realistic as the tyres appear to have less grip than say iRacing, yet the laptimes are much faster. Tuned Japanese cars and standard supercars in the 500-670bhp range will all pull laptimes around 1.10-1.12 at the top gear test track on soft sports without any trouble. This is obviously way too fast to be realistic. However, the way the cars handle and the grip available with some of those cars (atleast the MR cars) is closer to the real thing.

Sports Soft is at least two levels higher (and sometimes three) than what most supercars have on in the game.

And in real life, the "digs" in the grass on the inside and outside of some corners on the Top Gear track are deeper than in GT5... so drivers tend to take a much more conservative line.

 

[CoolColJ]

Yes the 458 snaps in the real video, but so does a humble 370z on Medium and soft sports tyres in GT5. That's one of the first things I tested in GT5, 370z on Indy Road course to compare physics with the Time Trial.

And even then the 458 shows no majors dramas.
The guy is winding the gears out, and judging by the engine sound and his body language and lack of nerves, he's not exactly tip toeing around the track like I would with comfort softs or hard sports tyres in GT5

For me medium sports tyres feels just right, like a high performance street tyre would feel like

 

[phil bell]

Comfort softs seem the best,go drive a lp640 on one then look at the video of evo testing it on track..and there is no way sports mediums are real oem tyres even on GTR's etc,too grippy.Even with all aids off you can still thwack the throttle hard md corner without too much drama

 

[phil bell]

Q: ONE IMPORTANT QUESTION:

WHICH TIRES WERE YOU USING IN GT5 AND IN THE REAL VID!!!!???

I MUST KNOW THIS THX DANKE

A: Michelin Pilot Sport II (standart) in real life and sport hard in the game.

Q: THX for the answear... but dont you think that in-game the tires comfort-soft would be more compareable to those pilot sports... because i thought the sport tires in-game are more like street-illegal (germany ) SEMI-slick tires.... what you think?!

A: Yes, I agree with you. I tried comfort-soft and they are much closer to PSII. Maybe even comfort-middle. And the car reacts much more realistic with those tires and lap time matches almost 100% with reality

Excellent conclusion mate:tup: i have an M3 and i find this accurate too.just sticks too much with those sports tyres!

 

[calan_svc]

You may want to check out this thread.

 

[Illopp00]

Should check out this article
http://www.motortrend.com/features/112_0706_americas_best_handling_car/track_conclusion.html

Motortrend Best Handling car - Tested with cars from GT5 on a track from GT5 - Laguna Seca. Pro Race Car Driver and plenty of data to compare of lateral G's through turns etc.

 

[alucard0712]

I think guys you need to be able to imagine that you are driving a REAL car with REAL consequences in GT5.This thing is not "by default", I think I learn it.
I remember after some of this imagination practice I drove my F430 like a turtle, trying not to do any bad to my tyres. 👍 So it may help to really reduce lap times closer to "real" thing.

 

[Sohvakettu]

The effect of fear is overrated i think. Anyone who thinks that pro race and test drivers aren't driving at the limit of the car because they are afraid has to be kidding themselves. While fear does play part it is minimal compared to the variation in driving conditions for example.

The main factor in deciding which type of tires would be chosen in real life and how do they perform is the track conditions and how the car uses them. Compared to that the GT5 tire selection doesn't bear much similarity to the real life and it seems to be more about a way to choose a difficulty level (that's why there is no significant difference in tire durability).