Jagged / motion blur with new LED HDTV (Finally over)

CAMAROBOY69 · Dec 26, 2011

Finally found THE best flat panel HDTV for gaming and movies. Updated 1/23/12.

5. Sony BRAVIA KDL-40EX720 40" 3D LED-LCD TV 120hz 240 motionflow 3d $1,000. - Went to ABC Warehouse with my 360 to check out this TV on Friday and checked out several others. This is by far THE best looking tv out of LCD, LED, or Plasmas. 1/23/12

4. Samsung UN32d6000SF LED 1080P 120hz 240 Clear Motion Rate $779.00- Refresh rate is very good. Hardly any blurring motion when moving or turning in a game. But thats all this TV has going for it. 1/19/12

3. SONY BRAVIA KDL-32EX523 1080p 60hz $669.00 LED is way better than LCD by a longshot. Its only 60 hz but so far I am loving this tv. I ordered the Samsung and plan to compare it to the Sony. If it doesnt beat the Sony, then the Sony is my new LED HDTV. 1/16/12

2. LG 32LK450 LCD 1080p 60hz both component and hdmi (turned down sharpness and made some adjustments. TV is much better but color is still a bit bland. still has jaggies and still motion blur ) 1/3/12

1. Toshiba 32DT2U LCD 720p 60hz component, 1080p hdmi ----- Christmas gift (jagged lines,motion blur, poor draw distance, and pic not as clear) 12/27/11

My old tv was a Sony Trinitron Wega 27" HDTV and the picture quality was a lot better than most of the new tvs but it wasnt wide screen.

My observations and tests
1. Movies look flawless and just incredible especially in blu-ray
2. Games dont look as good
3. Tried 1080i/1080p component cables on 360
4. Tried 1080p HDMI on PS3
5. Items up close look good but items in the distance have the jagged line problems (draw distance anti-aliasing).
6. HDMI and COmponent look almost identical
7. LED looks a lot better than LCD
8. 240hz/120hz handles motion blur a lot better than 60hz. Very noticable difference.

eSZee · Dec 26, 2011

Sounds like a normal LCD/HD TV to me.
Playing with sharpness and contrast could help a bit but for the mos part, it's normal, though the jaggedness usually is worse the closer you get.

wfooshee · Dec 26, 2011

Turn sharpness down. Or even off. Sharpness is not a real signal adjustment, it merely exaggerates edge effects by adding noise.

Also, my quick Googlification tells me it's a 720 set, so the downconvert process for 1080 inputs may produce artifacts.

CAMAROBOY69 · Dec 27, 2011

It simply has to be the TV. Above when I said "closer" I meant objects in the game that are closer look good but objects in the game that are in the distance produce a ton of jagged lines.

I went to return the tv yesterday but her mom cant find the reciept. So today I will be taking her mom with me to Best Buy with the tv to return it. While I am there I am going to look at better TVs. Any suggestions for 32" HDTV?

Azuremen · Dec 27, 2011

Still willing to bet mis matched input resolutions for the display, as it would fit your problem exactly. Or you just can't stand 720p, so find a 1080p panel.

CAMAROBOY69 · Dec 27, 2011

Azuremen
Still willing to bet mis matched input resolutions for the display, as it would fit your problem exactly. Or you just can't stand 720p, so find a 1080p panel.

It is in 1080p. I said that in the first post. Its listed as #4 in the first post. I also tried on the 360 and the PS3. Even tried component cables and HDMI.

After seeing this flat panel in person now I see why people always complain about jagged lines in games. Because I dont see anything like this on my older CRT HDTV at all.

eSZee
Sounds like a normal LCD/HD TV to me.
Playing with sharpness and contrast could help a bit but for the mos part, it's normal, though the jaggedness usually is worse the closer you get.

If thats normal then I might just stick with my old Sony CRT HDTV. I really want a wide screen.

CAMAROBOY69 · Dec 27, 2011

For clearification I want a new 32" widescreen. I might be buying this today so any help asap would be greatly appreciated since everyone here is a gamer.

1. I want THE best picture quality without jagged lines.
2. Price range around $300-$500 ish but can go higher if necessary.
3. Should I get LCD or LED??
4. Must be flat panel to save some space and lighter
5. Audio is not important since I will be going through surround sound anyway.

wfooshee · Dec 27, 2011

CAMAROBOY69
It is in 1080p. I said that in the first post. Its listed as #4 in the first post.

Except it's not. In my previous post I said I Googled your model number, and it's a 720p set. It can receive 1080 inputs, but will downscale to 720. That's where the "resolution mismatch" comes from that Azuremen referred to.

LCD and LED are the same display technology, just different lighting technology. Some people think LED lighting gives better color. I dunno. It's not enough difference to look at an unknown set and say, "That's LCD" or "That's LED."

But definitely look for the ability to display 1080p rather than just 720p.

Another problem is that the "jagged lines" you are referring to may simply be an anti-aliasing issue in the game's graphics engine, and hidden by the compartively lower sharpness of the CRT display. When you get a set that's capable of the higher resolution, problems with the source material become far more evident. In that case, it's not the TV's problem, but rather the TV's ability to show defects in the source.

CAMAROBOY69 · Dec 27, 2011

Ohhhh ok sorry about that guys. Thats crazy that it will let me switch to 1080p even though the tv is not actually 1080p. Thats most of the issue for sure even though i did see it in 720p, 1080i, and 1080p. I do want 1080p for sure. Again I apologize, its been crazy trying to get this TV to work correctly and trying to figure out how to return it. Plus need to sell my old one.

Ok so I need to make sure to get a 1080p HDTV that way I truly get THE best quality picture. I am very very picky about the picture quality. My older tv looks soo dang good and did not have jagged lines (anti aliasing issues). That issue drove me nuts. Even just sitting on the 360 dashboard or PS3 dashboard there were quite a few jagged lines with this new tv.

WIth that said should I still go with an LCD or LED or plasma? I heard plasma is not the way to go so I am leaning more toward LCD. Do you have any suggestions for my post specs in post #7? Thanks for the replies. I am leaning toward LCD.

Submerged · Dec 27, 2011

If you are going for a big screen size (42 inches and above) Plasma would be the way to go.

But for a 32 inch screen, it generally depends what you want from it. Plasmas don't suffer from ghosting as its at near-CRT levels of response. Also, Plasma is an older technology so you will get more quality screens at a more reasonable price.

LCD screens are sharper and they do have a brighter impact on the display due to extreme contrast levels and can look a little bit unrealistic sometimes. But it generally depends what you prefer. The screen can save a bit more electricity as it doesn't require that much power to use the unit. Additionally it should be a fair bit thinner for you.

Ultimately, it all down to your choice and what you can see is the best one for you.

CAMAROBOY69 · Dec 27, 2011

Visual quality is the most important to me. I really want THE best quality image for gaming and for movies. I dont need or have room for anything bigger than 32". If I can find a flat screen 32" hdtv to match the visual quality of my 6 year old 27" Sony Trinitron Wega then I will be happy.

This LG looks pretty good and is 1080p with great reviews.
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16889005190

I will have to see what Best Buy has to offer otherwise I might have to buy one online.

CAMAROBOY69 · Dec 27, 2011

I checked out consumerreports.org and it looks like these are the top 2 rated 32" HDTVS. So I will probably be picking one of these for sure. Leaning toward the LG. But I have also been a huge fan of Samsung.

1. LG 32LK450

2. Samsung LN32D550

CAMAROBOY69 · Dec 28, 2011

Last night I bought the LG 32LK450. 1080p 60hz and I am not happy with it either. I wanted the Samsung but it wasnt in stock. So the pursuit to find a better 32" widescreen LCD continues. The colors were just not right on the LG and I am STILL having issues with jagged lines just like the Toshiba had. The picture quality has been very clear on these last 2 LCD tvs but the jagged anti-aliasing problem is driving me borderline insane. I want THE best picture quality FOR GAMING AND not have the dang jagged lines!! I am beginning to think that I am going to have those stupide jagged lines with any LCD tv I purchase.

I wonder if the 120hz would make a difference compared to the 60hz? Some say yes some say no. If I have to pay more thats fine. I am almost at the point where I am just going to keep my 27" HD CRT Sony Trinitron Wega because the picture is already so dang good on that 6 year old tv. But I really want a wide screen. The stupid part about buying the tv from Best Buy is that most of them are only displayed in 720p so I cant truly see the quality until I bring it home. The movie quality is outstanding on these flat screens but the gaming quality drops right off.

Anyway here are some pics of what I have been dealing with in terms of jaggies. You can see it big time in the Crysis pic. ALso look at the edge of the "netflix" and you will see jaggies.

G.T · Dec 28, 2011

I think I know what you're on about.

Moving from older LCD sets to newer ones aliasing, (the jaggy lines) is becoming more and more apparent. I can only put this down to LCD sets having clearer processing than ever before, thus making what's actually being output to the screen (the non-full HD images console games very rarely produce) become more apparent. Turning down the sharpness to 0 or a bit above helps the situation, but I don't think you will ever get rid of it unless you have a full HD source. It's been like this for many years with LCD screens if you don't run at the native resolution you won't get the optimum picture quality.

I believe plasmas deal with aliasing better, but don't quote me on this. But again I don't think you will ever get rid of it.

By the way, as a side note, I know you bought the LG but the Samsung you quoted (LN32D550) is a cracking TV. I rather picky myself when it comes to buying new electronics, and within its price range the TV felt perfect for gaming and PC monitor use so I bought it.

Just try turning the sharpness down and see what it does.

Also 60hz and 120hz should make no difference in actual picture quality. It will just make games/movies seem smoother when you turn it on in the menus. I wouldn't recommend it for gaming IMO. They should have demo modes running in stores to show you the differences.

CAMAROBOY69 · Dec 28, 2011

I am glad you understand my insanity. :lol:

My old HDTV was a Sony CRT Trinitron Wega with a shiny screen. It was not LCD.
These 2 LCD TVs that I have tested out have screens that are anti glare. I wonder if that could also be causing more jaggies.

i would also like to note that the PS3 in HDMI 1080p does seem to look better than the 360 with compent cables in 1080p. The PS3 definetly looks better.

Sounds like I might either want to check out plasma or get an LCD with a shiny screen. The anti glare tvs seem to also create more jaggies.

I think I might check out the Samsung tv next. Heathers monitor is a Samsung and we love it. (I bought it about 5 years ago for my PC but now she uses it for her 360) I would have bought the Samsung LN32D550 I listed in post #12 last night but they didnt have it in stock. So thats probaby the next HDTV I will be buying this coming weekend. :lol:

Thanks for the heads up about the 120hz, been wondering about that too.

Oh and the demos running are almost all in 720p. Which sucks for marketing IMO. Thats why I was thinking about bringing my 360 there and hook it up on 1080p and see what happens.

G.T · Dec 28, 2011

Generally the PS3 has higher resolution games/menus compared to the 360. GT5 runs at a higher resolution than Forza for example, which will reduce the amount of jaggies and the size of them.

I'm pretty sure the anti-glare has nothing to do with jaggies. It's totally dependant on the quality of the input. The Samsung has anti-glare too - not sure what LCD TVs don't. But bringing the Xbox along might be a good idea.

Did you try turning the sharpness down to 0? It's a definite thing to try before going back to the shop. Monitors will more than likely always be better than new LCD TVs for aliasing due to them having little processing, making the image softer. Thus making the jaggies look like they're disappearing. My monitor does the same thing but I prefer having slightly clearer images from my TV.

CAMAROBOY69 · Dec 28, 2011

I tried turning the sharpness down but didnt turn it to 0. I can try that tonight when I get home. There are some things I just dont like about this LG so I already plan on trying the Samsung this weekend. I know I want that "freeze" button for sure on the remote and the LG does not have it. (gee thanks Driftgod for getting me hooked on that freeze button) :lol:

:edit. I dont think the Samsung has the freeze button. Oh well I guess I dont need that.

I am really just hoping I like the Samsung LN32D550 and can just stick with that. Then i will have two Samsung's side by side. But if that doesnt work I can try the Sony then the Vizio. I really think bringing the 360 there will be the best idea but we will see how I feel by the time the weekend comes.

wfooshee · Dec 28, 2011

I'm in the camp that thinks the effect is there on the older CRT but the set's not sharp enough to show it.

I'll try to get some similar looks at my set when I get home this evening. It's a 51-inch plasma, but I'll see if I'm seeing anything like what you've shown.

CAMAROBOY69 · Dec 28, 2011

Ok that would be greatly appreciated. I also agree with you that while my older CRT HDTV does look amazing for being 6 years old and has very few jaggies, I think its because its a smaller tv and not quite as "sharp" as the LCD. But who knows, still some trial and error until I find a TV I am happy with. The Samsung LN32D550 seems to be getting pretty dang good reviews. So thats my next purchase.

wfooshee · Dec 29, 2011

OK, had a look. If I'm right at the set, I see the jaggies. But anything more than 3 or 4 feet they are no longer distinguishable.

So how far away from your set are you? If it's a distance comparable to a desktop PC monitor, then you're simply too close with a 32-inch set.

I loaded up GT5 and Portal 2, and Portal 2, although run in 720p, was actually better when very close to the screen than GT5, so a lot of it is rendering in the game, not a defect in the display. But being too close just won't work. You might think you're getting into the action, blowing up the view, but you're blowing up the stuff that's supposed to be insignificantly small, too.

Borna12345 · Dec 29, 2011

I'd recommend the Bravia if you didn't fully decide yet. I have a 1080p 32-inch Sony Bravia (sorry, don't know which one exactly) and it's an awesome TV.

CAMAROBOY69 · Dec 29, 2011

wfooshee
OK, had a look. If I'm right at the set, I see the jaggies. But anything more than 3 or 4 feet they are no longer distinguishable.

So how far away from your set are you? If it's a distance comparable to a desktop PC monitor, then you're simply too close with a 32-inch set.

I loaded up GT5 and Portal 2, and Portal 2, although run in 720p, was actually better when very close to the screen than GT5, so a lot of it is rendering in the game, not a defect in the display. But being too close just won't work. You might think you're getting into the action, blowing up the view, but you're blowing up the stuff that's supposed to be insignificantly small, too.

I am betwen 5' and 6' away from the tv which is perfect for a 32" tv. It really is nothing to do with range. I can see the jaggies even if I move 10' from the tv.

G.T
Generally the PS3 has higher resolution games/menus compared to the 360. GT5 runs at a higher resolution than Forza for example, which will reduce the amount of jaggies and the size of them.

I'm pretty sure the anti-glare has nothing to do with jaggies. It's totally dependant on the quality of the input. The Samsung has anti-glare too - not sure what LCD TVs don't. But bringing the Xbox along might be a good idea.

Did you try turning the sharpness down to 0? It's a definite thing to try before going back to the shop. Monitors will more than likely always be better than new LCD TVs for aliasing due to them having little processing, making the image softer. Thus making the jaggies look like they're disappearing. My monitor does the same thing but I prefer having slightly clearer images from my TV.

This LG sharpness default was set to 70. So last night while playing Crysis 1(Crysis 1 is full of jaggies big time) I decided to take your advice and lower the sharpness. I lowered it from 70 to 60 and started to notice a difference. It started to reduce the jaggies, BUT also lowers the overall picture sharpness for gaming. If I adjust it any lower than 55-60 then it just makes everything blurry. I lowered it to 0 for the heck of it and it was so blurry I couldnt read any text or see anything on screen. I am sure most tvs are different and thats why you suggested 0 for sharpness. So on this tv I would say 50 is similar to 0 on other tvs. So the good news is that lowering the sharpness did help lower the jaggies a little, the bad part is that it also lowers the quality of everything.
But the cool thing about this tv is that I can have different settings for each imput on the TV. So I could have the shapness lower on the 360, higher on the PS3 since it doesnt have as many jaggies, and lower on TV channels. Not sure if all HDTVs allow this for each imput.

eSZee · Dec 29, 2011

You're just not going to get rid of the jaggies with a HDTV.
All the TVs I've had, let you set different settings for each input.
My suggestion would be to settings/setups for your TV model.
Also, unless you're watching a bluray, leave games at 720p. I think most of them are natively 720 anyway. Plus you would literally have to be 3-4 feet away from the TV to notice any difference between 720 and 1080.
Having owned a few 1080 and 720 sets, including the KURO for a short period, I can honestly say that I would pick a 720p set at a good price without hesitation.

This guy had his screen calibrated. See if you can copy his settings and if it helps.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=20506605#post20506605

CAMAROBOY69 · Dec 29, 2011

-What calibration DVD do you recommend?
-Also will the calibration DVD look different on the PS3 compared to the 360? I am guessing I will have to calibrate the 360 and the PS3.
-Do all LCD tvs allow you to set up the imputs with different settings. Example: PS3 has its own settings using the component cable imput and the 360 has its own settings using the HDMI cable imput. This LG has this option, not sure if other tvs have this option.

G.T · Dec 29, 2011

That Samsung you mentioned definitely has it's own settings for each input. I'm pretty certain any normal-budget LCD TV will have that feature now.

The 360 and PS3 use different ways of displaying their image to the screen. I can't remember the details, but yes you will probably have to calibrate each one individually.

And yeah, I expected it might make everything look really blurry turning the sharpness right down. But in all honesty that is the only way you are going to get rid of them on a new LCD set. Finding the right balance between quality and less jaggies is probably going to be your only solution...

FYI I use sharpness 45 to play COD on the Samsung - anything less it starts to blur out the distance and can't make out people so well...

Edit: Also, I suggest turning any "Edge Enhancement" options off, if there is any. And activating "Game Mode". That mode should be in your options somewhere - it might make a difference for you. Maybe.

eSZee · Dec 29, 2011

Xbox 360 HDMI - reference level: STANDARD
PS3 HDMI - set video options RGB: LIMITED + Super White: On

Picture Mode = Game
Backlight = 70-100
Contrast = 100
Brightness = 50
Sharpness = 50
color = 70-100 for video games, 50-60 for movies
tint = 0
color temperature = medium or centered
dynamic contrast = off
dynamic color = off
clear white = off (try changing to low/high see what you like best)
skin color = 0 (negative gives skin pink red tones positive is yellow)
noise reductions = off
Gamma = low
Black level = LOW
eye care = off
color gamut = wide
edge enhancement = off

_____________________
Xbox 360 HDMI & Component - reference level: EXPANDED
PS3 HDMI - set video options RGB: FULL + Super White: On

Input Label = PC (might help get 4:4:4 chroma)
Picture Mode = Game
Backlight = 70-100
Contrast = 100
Brightness = 50
Sharpness = 50
color = 70-100 for video games, 50-60 for movies
tint = 0
color temperature = medium or centered
dynamic contrast = off
dynamic color = off
clear white = off (try changing to low/high see what you like best)
skin color = 0 (negative gives skin pink red tones positive is yellow)
noise reductions = off
Gamma = low
Black level = HIGH
eye care = off
color gamut = wide
edge enhancement = off

I'm sure it's not all of them, but the ones I've had did that. One was a pretty low end Westinghouse.

It seems that line of LG has been sold with different panels, S-IPS(better) and a different one.

The TV is a S-IPS model.

Firstly change input label to "PC". (in "GAME" actually you may see a little color washing)
Choose Standard mode,not game. (with label "PC" and game mode you actually may see not so smoother motion, and your eyes may hurt a bit)

Then:

backlight - 43 (may differ from 35 to 60, depend on how dark is in your room )
contrast - 81
brightness -55
color temp -0

In advanced settings :

black level - high
gama - low

Also change your sound to Standard (and not infinite sound,the other modes brings a little input lag, which is hardly detected,but i feel it)
You may change the bass and treble.

In your xbox 360 settings change the colors to RGB ( or SOURCE ).
Picture ofcourse is 1080p.
In reference levels it has to be on Expanded.
Believe me i tested every mode combination and this brings the most low to none lag,low to none motion blur,and nice,smooth and crisp picture ! Also renaming label to "PC" , benefit you with 4:4:4 chroma.

CAMAROBOY69 · Dec 29, 2011

What calibration DVD do you recommend? There are actual dvd's you can buy for calibrating tvs.

G.T.
Yeah thats what I figured. The lower the sharpness the lower the jaggies, but also the lower the draw distance in games. So it would take some tweaking. The good news is I can have different settings for the different systems.

I called Best buy to see if the Samsung came in yet. Looks like the only way for me to even get the Samsung in is to order it. They dont have any and looks like they wont be getting anymore. They suggested I check out the LED they have in stock. Sheesh what a pain. Oh the good news is that I can bring my 360 into the store to check out the different tvs.

eSZee · Dec 29, 2011

Yeah, you don't say.
I just don't see the point when people have calibrated their TVs and are giving you all the data that will get you close enough to where you can do final adjustments yourself.
If you want to spend more money, google some calibration DVDs/software/gadgets and buy whichever you think is best.
Just keep in mind, and this is from reading this thread, YOU will probably not be happy if you're expecting it to be on par or better than your CRT.

CAMAROBOY69 · Dec 29, 2011

Ah I see what you are saying. This tv had a "setup wizard" and you are right,I was not happy with the results. I had better results messing with the adjustments myself. So good point, I will just save money and not get the calibration DVD. :lol:

G.T · Dec 29, 2011

I never used a DVD. To be honest as you've found most things are personal preference, so just do everything yourself manually taking tips from the internet, etc.

Jagged / motion blur with new LED HDTV (Finally over)

CAMAROBOY69

eSZee

wfooshee

Rather ride my FJR

CAMAROBOY69

Azuremen

aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa

CAMAROBOY69

CAMAROBOY69

wfooshee

Rather ride my FJR

CAMAROBOY69

Submerged

CAMAROBOY69

CAMAROBOY69

CAMAROBOY69

G.T

CAMAROBOY69

G.T

CAMAROBOY69

wfooshee

Rather ride my FJR

CAMAROBOY69

wfooshee

Rather ride my FJR

Borna12345

CAMAROBOY69

eSZee

CAMAROBOY69

G.T

eSZee

CAMAROBOY69

eSZee

CAMAROBOY69

G.T

Similar threads

Latest Posts