Comparative Review: BMW CSL - Praiano v The Hill v Top Performance

  • Thread starter rams1de
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I've been testing cars to use in some of the upcoming events in this season's race series with the lads over at Grumpy British Racing Club (GBRC). My driving's not too good (running about mid-division 2 in a two-division series) and my tuning skills are about equal to my driving. So, I've been trying out some tunes from the experts in this forum in an attempt to run a bit closer to those guys ahead of me.

Since I'm making my own comparisons, I thought I'd share the results. Hopefully the tuners will appreciate the feedback and casual/inexperienced racers who don't have time to do their own testing might find some useful pointers.

I'm looking for tunes to work with the different classifications at GBRC which are generally power/weight tyre restricted but tend to fall within or close to popular pp limits found in public lobbies, so should fit a variety of needs.

When I post a comparative review of tuners' cars, please bear in mind my needs might not meet the intended purpose of the original tune. They'll either be the closest I can find or an exercise to satisfy my curiousity.

I'll post a copy of the tunes, but if any tuner has a problem with that, please say so and I'll cut it and/or post a link to the original tune - just let me know
 
BMW M3 CSL 03: Praiano's Tunes v The Hill v Top Performance Tuning

Classification: GBRC Clubman Class A, 404bhp/1250kg/Aero allowed/Sports Medium tyres

The specs come in at around 525pp and my first thought was the Honda NSX Type R 02. The Lotus Evora has already been banned to avoid the race series becoming a single car event and the NSX looks like going the same way. I've seen a lot of love for BMW in this class and picked out three tunes for the M3 CSL 03 built on sports tyres.

Tested: My Lounge at Trial Mountain (5 laps)
Tyres: Sports Hard
Room settings: Real Grip/Tyre wear ON

My used CSL has been to GT Auto and the tuning shop for the following modifications:
Engine rebuild
Chassis restoration
Oil change
Stage 3 engine tuning
ECU
All available weight reduction
All drivetrain parts taking most expensive options

Power limited and ballast added to meet Clubman specs, the tunes were tested with the same FC transmission settings, default max speed and final drive with individual gears evenly spaced. Then each tuner's suspension, LSD and brake settings were applied.

ABS 1, Driving Line ON, all other aids OFF and using a wheel.

PRAIANO's TUNES (praiano63)

This must be the most productive tuning garage in GT5 and one of the most respected. Praiano published a 500pp tune to Touge specs for this car which should be well suited to Trial Mountain.

The Tune:
R -17/-7
S 14.3/13.3
Ext 7/8
Com 6/7
ARB 1/2

Cam 2.0/2.2
Toe -0.05/0.15

LSD 8/16/7

Brakes 7/4

I quickly applied the settings and charged into the outlap on cold tyres. Bowling up the hill at the end of the straight and into Turn 3, I was wary that the rear might be slippy until the tyres heated up, but totally shocked when I oversteered into the wall at about 95mph. This couldn't be right, I've seen a couple of touge battle videos and those drivers don't mind a little drift. I continued on, braking early for a pretty safe ride with consistent lap times around 1:37 getting under once, by a few hundreths.

I couldn't believe praiano would publish an understeery tune, not on a BMW anyway and took another look at the settings.

Important Note: This tune has ballast added for 48%/52% weight distribution

My stupid mistake rectified, I came back to the tune after trying the other two and discovered a transformed car. Agile and willing to turn, it shaved half a second off its previous best by the second lap and managed a best lap of 1.36.363 without feeling it had been driven hard.

Very stable through the tricky turn 3 and steady under heavy braking, only lighting the outside front tyre when turning into the sharp left at the bottom of the hill after the long tunnel. Thankfully, this car does not require the driver to be a master of throttle control, it rarely tried to break loose at the rear, gave good warning and was easily brought into check. The truth is, I was a bit of a wuss and didn't really push the car as hard as it could go and know I've left a bit of time on the track.

THE HILL (Cykosis)

I've seen this guy hawking his tunes all over the forums (poetic license) and was pleased to find his garage had a CSL tuned at stock power and weight for sports soft tyres. Close enough to warrant a trial at Class A specs and harder tyres, hope you don't mind - sir.

The Tune:
R -20/-10
S 7.6/10.2
Ext 6/7
Com 6/7
ARB 1/5

Cam 1.4/2.0
Toe -0.03/0.12

LSD 6/14/6

Brakes 7/6

Cykosis has taken a different approach with his tune, most notably the soft front springs which are at the lowest setting and stabilisers set much softer at the front than rear.

Driving this car on the outlap felt very similar to praiano's set up in that it is brisk, responsive and easy to control - a very important factor for a relative novice. The first full lap brought a time marginally slower than the previous tune's Lap 1 and so started the push for a fast time.

Now the most consistent aspects of this reviewer's driving are missing braking points, shifting too early/late so as you can imagine, I often find myself stomping on the throttle at less than the ideal time. For the most part this tune was very forgiving and snapped back into line really well. When I say snapped back that is very much how it felt - a very quick, sharp corrective movement most evident at the right hander leading into the short downhill section heading towards the lake near the end of the lap. It's a wierd sensation but with a very effective result, the car comes back into line when you think maybe you've lost it.

However, I couldn't quite catch the times of the first tune, probably because the car would start losing grip a little sooner when getting on the gas through and out of the tighter corners. The best I could manage was 1:36.713 but to the car's credit, it was very consistent on all but the final lap. Here, I caught a very fast line (for me) through the first sector and was on target for low 1.36, I lost a tenth or so through sector two and in my eagerness to regain lost ground I went too hard into the third last corner and coasted a little wide on exit. A rear wheel must have been on the curb when I squeezed too hard on the throttle and the car was sent into a wild spin, on this occasion Cykosis' tuned 'recovery force' didn't take effect and I was a goner.

TOP PERFORMANCE TUNING (Jackthalad)

I've seen Jackthalad's tunes do very well in some of the shootouts and his own times indicate he's a quick driver, way ahead of my efforts. When I saw this tune at stock power and weight but 520pp, I was a little confused. But, it should be in the ball park either way and was tuned for sports tyres so might fit my needs ok.

The Tune:
R -20/-10
S 12.0/10.0
Ext 10/10
Com 9/7
ARB 1/5

Cam 1.4/1.1
Toe 0.05/0.09

LSD 9/22/12

Brakes 6/7

So here was another tune with ride height set higher at the rear and the most remarkable thing was the dampers, I can't say I've ever seen such high settings, not that it means a great deal to me.

Boy, did I know I was in for a rough ride, right from the start. Even on the outlap, the car was setting the tyres alight and at times I had all four wheels lit up as I struggled to find grip. I have to presume this tune was not built for a bumpy track like Trial Mountain, in my hands it handled erraticly throughout the test, I just couldn't find a trick to keep the car connected to the track. Not that I lost all control but it could react quite violently to bumps and elevation changes and was inconsistent through the corners.

The exaggerated behaviour could be seen in the contrast between downhill and uphill turns, pointing downhill the car would veer very sharply into the turn and I would find myself turning far too soon, but going uphill the opposite was the case with the car resistant to turning at all. It really was a battle throughout and one in which I took a hell of a beating. Lapping in the 1.38s I managed to break through once, with a best 1:37.303 on the fourth lap.

SUMMARY

Praiano's Tunes, best time 1:36.363 - safe and sure with more time in the locker
The Hill, best time 1:36.713 - consistent and enjoyable but don't push too hard
Top Performance Tuning, best time 1:37.307 - painful but could be more friendly on a flat track

PROLOGUE

The GBRC specs allow for aero which didn't feature in any of the tunes. I put a wing on Praiano's car took if for a two-lapper and gained another few tenths breaking 1.36 on the second lap. It now needs a little adjustment as the wing has introduced some understeer in the tight bends, but this car gets a paint job and a place in my favourites
 
Hi mate, thanks for taking it for a test and comparing it with the other tuners cars.
My suspension settings were setup for toscana tarmac which is probably one of the smoothest tracks and I didnt test it on any others. So I dont expect it to do well anywhere else.

I was planning to change the settings posted in my garage a while back too as i have a better setup that is more of an all-rounder, but never got round to it.

But now seems like a good time to change them, Thanks 👍
 
Hi, thanks for the review, if you use rear aerofoil ,depending how many points you use, you will have to correct the induced under-steer with the ride height. This is the only parameter that will not influence the overall balance of the car.

You have actually RH -17/-7. You can use gradually -17/-10 // -15/-10 // or -12/-12 or -10/-12.... Till you reach the good point where you will be comfortable.
Enjoy your drive, great review, have a good night.
 
It's true I spend a fair bit of time in the Seasonal forum, hawking my wares to any that will have them :sly:

Glad you enjoyed the ride, thanks for taking the time to try the car out and post your findings. The back-to-front springs were taken from the real world, I'd read a lot about people switching the springs front and back. This was purely an experimental thing on my behalf, nice to see it was effective in some ways. If I remember rightly, it was built and tested at Trial Mountain, I don't think it fares so well at other tracks though.

Thanks once again for your time and efforts...

{Cy}
 
Hey rams you sneaky bugger.

What ever help you have got from GTP, during Tskukba testing for class B's the other night you had some extra pace about you.

Good to see you improving buddy. I guess we will have to watch out for you for the upcoming Mazda Rx7 TC and KOTR and Class A.

Have a look at the GT86. was banned from Class B's but may be a good option for class A.

My best advice to you is practice. Most of the faster guys at GBRC will dedicate several hours to testing prior to race, with some testing over a few days. Looking at most of the div 2 guys, they often don't show up till last min, and perhaps test privately away from the group that are on more often. Allot of my speed comes from testing with the main guys, and getting tips from them.


See you sunday if you are racing/testing.
 

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