Oversteer or Underseer - What do you Prefer?

bangkokgt · Mar 9, 2006

Hi People

I thought that I might start a new thread on what gives you more enjoyment in GT4 and/or in real life driving - cars which handle with more
understeer or oversteer?

Also, Please name your favourite cars in terms of driving enjoyment in the
game.

Looking forward to hearing from you.....

jammyozzy · Mar 9, 2006

I always prefer oversteer. Both slow you down, but oversteer gives you the opportinity to show off while you do it. :sly:

I just find understeer annoying. :crazy:

As for my favourite car to drive, it's currently my Griffith 500.

👍

FaLLeNAn9eL · Mar 9, 2006

definately oversteer, alot more fun than under :lol:

Greycap · Mar 9, 2006

Feel free to read this thread.

(I have learned a few things after that thread though)

Now I see that I should have made the poll a never-ending one as the question still remains.

No doubt, oversteer for me, and my current favourite car is either the Nismo R32 S-Tune or the Plymouth Cuda.

niclake13 · Mar 9, 2006

Depends on the track, in all honesty. Some tracks have broad, sweeping corners that you don't want the oversteer on, others have sharp hairpins that it becomes almost necessary. While I don't prefer one over the other, I will say that I don't care for understeer very much.

In regards to cars, the BMW M3 has to be my favorite. One of those cars that you don't have to worry about either :-)

MasterGT · Mar 9, 2006

I prefer both, when we're supposed to get each.

I don't expect a lot of oversteer from an FF.

I do expect at least the possibility of some oversteer from an FR.

Cheers,

MasterGT

Sleek Stratos · Mar 9, 2006

I actually prefer understeer in GT4. Correcting the oversteer in some cars can prove tricky, particularly on tracks like the 'Ring or El Capitan.

CAMAROBOY69 · Mar 9, 2006

Oversteer. Enough oversteer and your drifting. Its a win win situation but like mentioned above, both slow you down.
I cant stand understeer. If I turn the wheel the car should turn not go straight!!

JohnBM01 · Mar 9, 2006

For the purpose of this thread, I will not use the NASCAR terms "tight" and "loose."

Traditional racing discipline teaches you that oversteer and understeer are two things you want to correct all the time. Understeer is highly apparent if you are racing front-wheel drive cars. I know 85% of car fans despise front-wheel drive, but understeer makes you unable to take a car into a corner and aggressively attack the corner. Oversteer is highly apparent if you are racing rear-wheel drive cars. Oversteer is how the rear doesn't have enough friction to control the car into a corner.

Since a good number of my cars are rear-wheel drive, I'd prefer oversteer. I only want moderate oversteer to control a rear-wheel drive car in the corners. I want a moderate amount of oversteer to slide the car out. Too much oversteer means that I'll be losing ground on the race track. You don't want that, and neither do I. I will need the rear wheels to aid me in handling. Then, I want to be able to control the car properly so that I don't make perfectly avoidable errors on the track. Oversteer also serves a fun purpose- drifting. Drifting is still possible with a front-wheel drive car, but you won't get that feel in the car's handling.

I'm not trying to mix oversteer vs. understeer with driving, but here's an excerpt from Wikipedia on drifting and FWD:

There is some debate over whether or not front-wheel-drive (FWD) vehicles can drift. By the technical definition (rear wheels slipping at a greater angle than front wheels), they are indeed able to drift. However, many consider FWD vehicles a poor choice for drifting, as the frequent use of the emergency brake (necessary to drift FWD cars) slows them down and makes them harder to control. Also since they use their front tires for both steering and power, the car loses control after a single slide, while RWD cars can drift through consecutive corners. In this way, the definition of drifting is frequently challenged to say that FWD cars cannot "drift," only oversteer. However, some drifters such as Kyle Arai or Keisuke Haketeyama use front wheel drive Honda Civics to drift, and succeed in doing so, sometimes besting their RWD opponents. Theoretically, FWD cars can drift by simply taking a turn without braking and skid into the turn (on the ice, a FWD accomplishes the same and by debated definition "drifts") and by using manji or lift off techniques (see below) to readjust the car coming out of the turn. - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Drifting_(motorsport)

Long story short - I'd prefer oversteer.

gt_masta · Mar 9, 2006

None.

But if I have no other choice, then I prefer oversteer, like CB said when I turn the wheel I don't want the car to go straight!

bangkokgt · Mar 9, 2006

I actually had an ulterior motive in asking this question.

As much as I prefer oversteer in GT4 and in real life, my budget for
an every day real driver after saving to that end is between a 2003 Subaru WRX STI or a 2004 Toyota MRS (roughly about the same price).

I have to say that (at least in GT4!) that I find the MRS more balanced
and inclined to oversteer which is a lot more enjoyable than the dogged
oversteer experienced in the Scooby.

So, what would be your preferred ride? A 280 bhp Scooby or a much less
powerful and more enjoyable handling MRS?

Your thoughts, gentlemen!

bangkokgt · Mar 9, 2006

Sorry, a quick amendment to my last post, I meant dogged understeer on the Scooby.
:dunce:

doh!

Sureboss · Mar 9, 2006

Oversteer, alot easier to correct.

Alfaholic · Mar 9, 2006

I prefer an adjustable balance that allows me to choose. Some cars can do that. Between the two choices though, I'd have to pick oversteer, as I hate too much understeer. However, the Audi quattro has softened my opinion a bit and has proved to be an enjoyable car with understeer and a completely immovable rear end. It shows that it's not just about balance.

In the real world I want adjustability and balance. Cars with lots of understeer built in for safety tend to run out of ideas when provoked too much and become difficult to control, where cars that allow the driver to easily choose understeer or oversteer feel more controllable when provoked.

More important to me than either in a road car, is steering feel and precision. A Ford Focus has beautiful balance but it just can't engage the senses like a decent rear wheel drive car with good weight distribution and no power assistance in the steering. Unfortunately such cars are hard to come by nowadays... except for maybe a Lotus Elise. The steering feel makes or breaks a car for me.

Gabkicks · Mar 9, 2006

it depends. when talking about racing i'll tune the car to have the optimum amount of grip weather that means increasing or decreasing over/understeer and make up for the general charateristics of the car with my driving technique. usually your gonna want to set up race cars to understeer in real life. in gt4 i tend to just set up everything to oversteer alot. so much so that most my race sets could be considered mild drift sets.

Uncle Harry · Mar 9, 2006

Set up to mild oversteer.
Very hard to hit your apex in a car that understeers.
Most road cars are set up with understeer as it is more easily handled by Joe Average Driver than oversteer.

Blake · Mar 9, 2006

I don’t mind either in a mild sense. But if it’s extreme, I’d prefer understeer.

STLbarcelona5 · Mar 9, 2006

I love throttle on oversteer. It's god when it comes to tight turns.

MasterGT · Mar 9, 2006

bangkokgt
I actually had an ulterior motive in asking this question.

As much as I prefer oversteer in GT4 and in real life, my budget for
an every day real driver after saving to that end is between a 2003 Subaru WRX STI or a 2004 Toyota MRS (roughly about the same price).

My first thought was why were these your two choices, since they are vastly different from each other. (You don't have to justify your choices, to me or anyone. In the end, it's your call.)

Regardless of everything else, one is only a two seater, so, to me, they are like apples and cashews. Both are fruit, but that is the only connection between the two.

Cheers,

MasterGT

Gabkicks · Mar 9, 2006

bangkokgt
I actually had an ulterior motive in asking this question.

As much as I prefer oversteer in GT4 and in real life, my budget for
an every day real driver after saving to that end is between a 2003 Subaru WRX STI or a 2004 Toyota MRS (roughly about the same price).

I have to say that (at least in GT4!) that I find the MRS more balanced
and inclined to oversteer which is a lot more enjoyable than the dogged
oversteer experienced in the Scooby.

So, what would be your preferred ride? A 280 bhp Scooby or a much less
powerful and more enjoyable handling MRS?

Your thoughts, gentlemen!

have you taken the cars for a test drive? i've never driven either of those cars myself so i cant comment.

wildbillk · Mar 10, 2006

I prefer oversteer in both GT and real life. Of course the drivetrain is going to effect over or under so I try to balance the cars I use for a slight oversteer. Also depends on how powerful the car is. Huge HP rear wheel cars can easily oversteer on accel so I have to be careful and it depends on the speed and tires of course.

In RL I like a little oversteer as well but I'm not a race car driver and safety is a much bigger concern then in a video game. Oversteer can be very dangerous in RL and most production run of the mill cars are set to understeer for safety reasons. I havent driven too many cars with a strong oversteer though except an RX-7 (race tuned suspension and about 320? hp). That car pushed out hard. Wasn't my car though, my friend who has a bodyshop and racing team. MG's are really fun cars too and one of my favorite. I've had great experiences with an MGB convertible on many windy hilly roads. Also a 3000gt VR4 which really pushed straight with a slight understeer on decel (was a cornering beast though regardless). The car had a custom cam, exhaust, timing and a few other things giving it about 345-350bhp (was like 25-35 more then stock VR4). Also some great slick tires (well street legal slick) which were very soft to the point where gravel and stuff would get stuck in there (had to drive like 20mhp in the rain though lol). Other then that my cars were FF which had alot of understeer and not sport cars.

SavageEvil · Mar 10, 2006

I'm not sure what to choose overall, they are both needed depending on the vehicle. Some cars tend to turn rather quickly and need understeer dialed in to make the vehicle more neutral, most race cars have understeer dialed in because it allows them to dive into turns deeper, while the car may "push" a little, it's easier to deal with that a car that gets loose going into turns.

Some cars i prefer the oversteer, others I prefer understeer. The S7 is one machine that I have understeer dialed in for both entry and exits on corners, helps greatly, allows deeper corner attacks as well as early throttle input on exits.

Rohrl-fan · Mar 10, 2006

Hmmm... To be honest, I like both. When I'm "cruising around" for fun or for PhotoMode I prefer oversteer. It's fun, it looks awesome and I just can't get enough of it. However, when I'm going for a hot lap or driving a race I prefer understeer.

Some of you guys may know this from reading the first post in my gallery, but I also do a bit of track-driving in the real world. I drive races in indoor-karting (even a 24 hours race!

) and I take part in trackdays with my Integra Type R. To keep my pride on the right track I've taken part in a few advanced driving classes, and I've learned that a bit of understeer is best for fast laptimes...

Scaff · Mar 10, 2006

Rohrl-fan
Hmmm... To be honest, I like both. When I'm "cruising around" for fun or for PhotoMode I prefer oversteer. It's fun, it looks awesome and I just can't get enough of it. However, when I'm going for a hot lap or driving a race I prefer understeer.

Some of you guys may know this from reading the first post in my gallery, but I also do a bit of track-driving in the real world. I drive races in indoor-karting (even a 24 hours race! ) and I take part in trackdays with my Integra Type R. To keep my pride on the right track I've taken part in a few advanced driving classes, and I've learned that a bit of understeer is best for fast laptimes...

I would quite agree with what Rohrl-fan has said here, oversteer in GT4 and the real world is fun and looks great. However it does slow you down and is murder on tyres.

The majority (but not by any means all) of race car set-ups are biased towards understeer as it is generally more progressive and predictable, and while it will still lose you time, it will generally be less lost time than oversteer. Particularly as understeer on most circuits is just going to result in you running wide and off track, while oversteer will scrub the tyres and a spin may well result in contact with another car.

Regards

Scaff

-Cheezman- · Mar 10, 2006

I choose over steer, there is no 0/0 of over steer or under steer, you MUST have one or the other, many people think you can have a perfect middle with no over or under steer, but you can't. (Don't anyone try to argue this, because it is pointless, you will never be able to show me the "perfect handling car", because one does not exist, it's drivers preference!)

I rather have over steer because if you know what you are doing, you can keep it under control, where as under steer requires more use of the brakes and slows you down.... or something like that.. lol.

SRV2LOW4ME · Mar 10, 2006

Scaff
The majority (but not by any means all) of race car set-ups are biased towards understeer as it is generally more progressive and predictable, and while it will still lose you time, it will generally be less lost time than oversteer. Particularly as understeer on most circuits is just going to result in you running wide and off track, while oversteer will scrub the tyres and a spin may well result in contact with another car.

I partly agree with you on this one, while they may be tuned to understeer, neither will result in more or less crashes. I could oversteer on the outside and spin off into the grass, just as easily as understeering on the inside and straight into the side of another car. I think the lost time and tire wear are the major concerns when it comes to dialing in understeer on race cars, like you stated.

Greycap · Mar 10, 2006

I choose over steer, there is no 0/0 of over steer or under steer, you MUST have one or the other, many people think you can have a perfect middle with no over or under steer, but you can't. (Don't anyone try to argue this, because it is pointless, you will never be able to show me the "perfect handling car", because one does not exist, it's drivers preference!)

You will find a lot of people trying to argue the neutrality... but how is it driver's preference?

joseph dobson · Mar 10, 2006

i like oversteer because you can do powerslides with oversteer!!

Scaff · Mar 10, 2006

SRV2LOW4ME
I partly agree with you on this one, while they may be tuned to understeer, neither will result in more or less crashes. I could oversteer on the outside and spin off into the grass, just as easily as understeering on the inside and straight into the side of another car. I think the lost time and tire wear are the major concerns when it comes to dialing in understeer on race cars, like you stated.

While you are quite right that an accident or crash is possiable with either, the vast majority of drivers feel that understeer is less likely to result in an accident (sliding into another car is generally less destructive that a spin unless you are going far to fast - in which case a warning for dangerous driving is going to be added to the problem) and is normally more predictable.

But as I said its not a universal thing, just that the vast majority of drivers I have spoken to, read about, seen talking on the subject prefer a car that understeers on the limit rather than one that oversteers.

The natural 'safety' of an on the limit loss of control for understeer vs oversteer is the reason why road cars are almost without exception biased towards understeer on the limit.

@-Cheezman- Sorry but I am going to disagree with you on this one. While it is very rare for a car to be able to be balanced neutral on the limit it is more than possiable, its discussed in a number of raceing texts that I have (unless you want to call Skip Barber a liar). A true four wheel drift is a car which is over the limit but neutral (that is the slip angle is the same at each tyre, don't get me wrong its not easy to do, nor can it be done in every car, but it is possiable.

Additionally in regard to which slows you down more, that depends on the driver and the car, but in the real world understeer is generally easier to feel building as its related to a greater slip at the front (in comparison to the rear). As the front wheels are connected to the steering can normally be felt and controlled sooner (and sooner means less loss of speed. If the brakes are needed to scrub off understeer (rather than a lift) then you've normally ignored whatthe car has being trying to tell you.

Oversteer by contrast is related to the rear tyres being at a greater slip angle than the fronts, as such the only real feel you get is through the seat of your pants, which can be harder to judge.

Again, as I said above its a drivers preference and certainly in GT4 rather than the real world oversteer does seem to be peoples preference, it would however be interesting to see how many people would like to drive the 'ring for real in a car that was tail happy on the limit.

Regards

Scaff

-Cheezman- · Mar 10, 2006

Scaff, I've also read many books about it, and they all said the same thing "It's one or the other" to sum it up. Skip Barber talks about "feeling" neutral (feeling, and being are different things), but it really is not neutral. Even if all 4 wheels have equal slip angle, doesn't mean the car is "perfect". If the car was perfect, it wouldn't be drifting, now would it? You know it, I know it, the whole world knows it.

Drop it.

Oversteer or Underseer - What do you Prefer?

bangkokgt

jammyozzy

FaLLeNAn9eL

Greycap

The Flying Finn

niclake13

MasterGT

Sleek Stratos

CAMAROBOY69

JohnBM01

20 years!

gt_masta

bangkokgt

bangkokgt

Sureboss

Tanned and Lipstick'd

Alfaholic

Gabkicks

Uncle Harry

Blake

STLbarcelona5

MasterGT

Gabkicks

wildbillk

SavageEvil

Rohrl-fan

Scaff

-Cheezman-

SRV2LOW4ME

It's a G thing

Greycap

The Flying Finn

joseph dobson

Scaff

-Cheezman-

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